Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns

Subject: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: hrafn
Date: 05 May 00 - 03:08 PM

I'm looking for some clear pictures/drawings of tattoo patterns of what the Pendragons, and the High Druids as well, use to have around their arms, preferably celtic designs..... I just don't know where to start, any suggestions? Thanks!!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 00 - 03:37 PM

Just for starters, if you use Yahoo as a search engine and type in Celtic tattoos, there are literally hundreds of links which come up. Here is one which has some examples, but I cannot vouch for their authenticity.

I noticed one of the links was to primitive art, so that might be a good seach word to use, too.

Good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 May 00 - 04:15 PM

Unfortunately, nobody really knows how the Druids decorated themselves, and if by "Pendragons" you mean Arthur and his dad, well, there's no evidence that they ever existed, or used tattoos!  That said, I assume you're thinking of the Celtic-style "armband" tattoos that have been fashionable recently; most of the ones I've seen have been knotwork.  As Kat says, you can find plenty through Yahoo, or indeed pretty well any search engine.  One which has some nice, free clipart is:   Aon Celtic Art

Aidan Meehan has written a series of useful books on Celtic-style design; details of these, and others, from:  The Celtic Art Coracle Online

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 00 - 04:24 PM

WOW, Malcolm! Wonderful sites, thank you!

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: hrafn
Date: 07 May 00 - 05:40 AM

Thanks Malcolm! Lovely site and great info, but as for your comment on the Arthur and his dad thing I must disagree. Not so much as in the fact they may or may not have existed, more in the Pendragon-side of things. Pendragon is not a title solely connected to the Arthur-legend. Pendragon IS a title for a chieftain and they did have snakes tattood around their arms, nothing like the celtic armband flimsies (although some are nice) that go around nowadays. They were originally tattood in woadblue, but I can't find any usefull examples to get inspiration from to put on my Pen-Orthyn's arms (Pen-Orthyn = High Chieftain, official title again..... hehehe) or on my own for that matter, but then again, I haven't "deserved" them yet..... If you do come across anything else, then please let me know!! I open to suggestions and always willing to learn..... Thanks again to the both of you!!! Love, Snakey (Hrafn's friend...)

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 May 00 - 11:49 AM

While I think you may be on historically rather shaky ground there, I do see what you mean. I'm not sure that there's much pictorial information to be had on the British/Cymric side, but I think you may find some examination of Pictish designs useful; there are a good few sites of interest out there, including:

Pictish Symbol Stones Database

Pictish Arts Society

Pictish Nation

F. Lennox Campello's  Pictish Drawings

Pictish Heritage Links

The Woad Page  will tell you all you ever wanted to know about...well, woad, and there is some interesting discussion of the historical record where tattoos and so on are concerned, at:  

Period tattoos and body and face decoration.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:24 PM

The dragon was an emblem adopted by Briton chiefs as their emblem or symbol of authority and 'pendragon' meant high chief (top honcho). There were a lot of old titles which can be difficult to keep track of and differentiate precisely: leader (wledig), emyr (emperor), and king (but there were often many of having these titles, so the territory controlled by them was often not very large. There were also a few derivatives of older Roman titles, Dux/Duke, etc,.

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Wavestar
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:35 PM

Thanks for the info, Malcolm... I have a Scottish friend in the SCA with a Pictish persona... he'll appreciate these a lot!

-J

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: keltcgrasshoppper
Date: 07 May 00 - 06:36 PM

Malcolm, as Kat said whooo those site are amazing thanks for sharing them.. Beautiful things.. KGH

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 00 - 06:37 PM

Sorry, 'wledig' above should have been translated as ruler, not leader.

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Peg
Date: 09 May 00 - 10:41 AM

ooh, thanks for all the great links!!!! I am planning to get a tattoo this season (my first) and am getting the White Horse of Uffington on my shoulder...
I can also recommend a great book on Celtic art, including wonderful instructions on how to draw it...it is by Dover Books, by George Bain: I think it is just called "Celtic Art" and it includes knotwork, zoomorphic designs and calligraphy. I got it when I first started doing Celtic alpabets as a calligrapher; there are now better books for that, but Bain's is still the best "how to" for artists learning to do knotwork from scratch... peg

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: hrafn
Date: 09 May 00 - 03:24 PM

Dear Malcolm, you have helped me out tremendously!!!! Great and many thanks to you and whenever I do get the Snakes on both my Pen Orthyn and myself I hope I will see you one day to show you the result!!!! Thank you so very very much!!! Keep the link going, because apparently I didn't start an empty subject here!!! Talk to you soon, Love, Snakey........ (Hrafns friend)

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:27 AM

Funny, I thought 'wledig' means 'mighty'. Or at least my geiriadur says so. Oh, and I've never seen any 'Celtic' (Greek nomenclature for western barbarians) knotwork in my life, that normally attributed as being 'Celtic' is in fact Norse/Danish/Anglish/Saxon knotwork involving elaborate animal designs. Iron Age Western European (read: Celtic) artwork typically involved abstract swirls, spirals, and curvilinear designs, most pointedly never crossing themselves.

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Hollowfox
Date: 10 May 00 - 03:53 PM

If anybody wants to buy some woad, Alexandra Hahn c/o 56 Forest Road, Wilton, New Hampshire 03086 USA sells it every August at a Huge medieval re-creation bash (so to speak), called the Pennsic War. I don't know if she does anything by mail. If she doesn't, I'll be at Pennsic, and I'd be willing to pick up some; just e-mail me and we can make arrangements.

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 May 00 - 05:32 PM

I have just remembered reading, or seeing somewhere, that the knotwork patterns derive from coptic designs, and reached Ireland through some early missionary activities.Unfortunately I cannot remember the source. There was, apparently an Egyptian link elsewhere, in the calendar followed by Celtic Christians, and in the solitary monasticism practised by its saints. I'm sorry to be so unscholarly about the reference - it wasn't something I expected to need in that detail.

Penny

Subject: RE: Help: Pendragon/Druidic Snake patterns
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 May 00 - 05:34 PM

And did the knotwork appear in the work of Vikings and English before they met the Irish work?

Penny