Genealogy of Bluegrass

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 10:34 PM

Nice list, Amos. But a lot of those albums are reissues so the dates are the dates of the reissue, not the recording. For instance, Bill and Charlie Monroe never recorded together after 1938 and many of Bill's pre-bluegrass recordings have been reissued as well. Remember, Monroe had named his band "The Blue Grass Boys" long before he'd established the music that others labeled bluegrass.

We all know that creative musicians have "big ears" and can absorb a great many influences. But saying that Charlie Poole influenced bluegrass because he was earlier doesn't really establish causation.

It's nice to see new faces in this thread. It's been going for over nine years and contains a lot of good information.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 11:11 PM

Multitasking ineffectively. Just saw I did not successfully copy and paste user review at Barnes & Noble.

Posted February 14, 2001, 5:00 PM EST: This is a great source book on the early period of Appalachian country radio music. As a resident of the area during the time period involved, I remember the place country music on radio had in our society, and Professor Tribe has managed to capture the essence of the business at that time. The period and the music is little known and even less understood. Tribe has done a great service to historians and musicologists. (anonymous reviewer)

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: TinDor
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 03:26 AM

Some interesting videos that hell understand what Old Time is and how it relates and differs from Bluegrass. First, in thw words of Bill Bpnroe on what made up Bluegrass..


"It's got a hard drive to it. It's Scotch bagpipes and old-time fiddlin'. It's Methodist and Holiness and Baptist. It's blues and jazz and it has a high lonesome sound. It's plain music that tells a story. It's played from my heart to your heart, and it will touch you." - Bill Monroe

Kentucky's State Bluegrass Song: "Blue Moon of Kentucky"


ON a more technical definition on what differentiated Bluegrass from Old Time music...

"Monroe is most famous for creating bluegrass music (although it was not labeled as such until many years later). Despite the notion that bluegrass is a traditional style, Monroe mixed elements of old-time string bands with the blues, rural spiritual singing, and jazz solos. He abandoned the breakdowns and "hootin' and hollerin'" that characterized rural string band music for carefully rehearsed numbers that incorporated virtuoso solos by each player. Monroe also pushed the mandolin to the foreground where the fiddle usually dominated country string-bands."

Bill Monroe: Creating a Tradition


Videos...

Appalachian Music Part B --> Gives some insight on came to be known as Old Time Music


From a Bill MOnroe/Bluegrass Docu

Bill Monroe on Bluegrass Music Pt A -->Gives some insight into the old British Isles derived ballads/fiddle music brought to Appalachia. Also mentiones the music from the Baptist Church


Bill Monroe on Bluegrass Music Pt B --> Basically describing what we now know as Old Time Music. WEst African derived syncopations/ Banjo & Banjo frailing styles/Blusey Fiddle meets British Isles derived melodys/fiddle music. Monroe also mentions his Blues influece and one of his teachers, Arnold Shultz

Bill Monroe on Bluegrass Music Pt C --> talks about the transition from the old frailing styles to the Earl Scruggs style that contained the rolling syncopated Ragtimey picking


Bill Monroe on Bluegrass Music Pt D -->talks about Bluegrass having the Jazz-like solo breakdowns which didn't exist in Old Time music

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 11:16 AM

Bluegrass is linear and not too danceable. Old style string band music was for the purpose of dancing. Bluegrass doesn't have the harmonic complexity of jazz or the phrasing
in the solos. When it leaves the roots whereby it started, it becomes mechanical and an undue emphasis on physical virtuosity is at the expense of the music.

It's a relatively "new kid on the block".

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: TinDor
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 02:01 PM

Bluegrass obviously isn't as complex as Jazz harmony or phrasing wise but it does contain Bebopish-like licks. I do think Bluegrass can be dance to though.

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: deadfrett
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:44 AM

Perhaps it started with the invention of the banjo capo, so pickers could play above the 2nd fret. Monroe used an accordian and frailing style banjo(Stringbean) prior to Scruggs and still called it bluegrass. Cajun bluegrass? Dave

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 02:30 PM

Though I generally avoid it, I'll have to disagree with Frank here--Bluegrass is great music for clogging--

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: Janie
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 03:00 PM

I agree Ted. Though I will say that the music seems to get faster as I get older:>)

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 03:55 PM

As a mandolin player, the sound that defines bluegrass for me is the dry, rhythmic 'chop' of the mandolin, generally on the off-beat. It's that, coupled with the bass line that allows bluegrass to have a driving rhythm without using percussion. Monroe (I think)was the first to use the mandolin in this way, and almost accidentally discovered an instrument (his famous Gibson F5 signed by Lloyd Loar) that could produce that dry, woody sound. Add to that his obvious blues influences, the melodies with roots in Appalachian and Scots/Irish dance music, and you end up with something different to what had come before.
YMMV, of course!

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Nov 09 - 06:52 PM

deadfrett said “Monroe used an accordian and frailing style banjo(Stringbean) prior to Scruggs and still called it bluegrass.”

True, Monroe recorded with an accordion and with clawhammer banjo. He also experimented with piano and electric guitar. But he didn't call it bluegrass and neither do scholars. Not everything Monroe played was bluegrass. He called his band The Blue Grass Boys but, according to scholars, the first ever bluegrass recording was made on Sept. 17, 1946. Will You Be Loving Another Man was the first recorded tune to have all the elements of what we call bluegrass.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Genealogy of Bluegrass
From: BobKnight
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 12:48 PM

Bill Keith, along with Jim Rooney, played Aberdeen country music club in 1974. They didn't have a bass player with them and I ended up playing with them that night. Bill asked if I would play with them at Glenrothes in Fife, the next night. I agreed, and we had another great night.

Now this is the "kick my own arse," bit. At the end of the Glenrothes gig, Bill asked if I would like to carry on and play the rest of the tour with them. Dates in England, Europe - I think Holland and Germany. I reluctantly turned him down as I had a new girlfriend, now my wife of 33 years, and had just started Art College.

It wasn't until I met an American friend in Aberdeen a few weeks later, Jim Hay, originally from San Francisco, that I was made aware of how big a deal Bill Keith was. TO me he was just a very nice banjo player from America. I sometimes wonder if my life would have taken an entirely different turn if I'd known who he was. :)