BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: SDShad
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:18 PM

There's been snow on the fourth of July in the Black Hills of South Dakota! I tried to collect from my mom on all those "It'll-be-a-cold-snowy-day-on-the-fourth-of-July-before-I-let-you-do-that" items, but she explained that she was just trying to raise me right and what she really meant was "a cold day in Hell." Comments on our beautiful state aside, you know it happens several times a year in that lovely city in Norway.

(I'm not really SDShad, but I can see him from here.)

--Beth

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Micca
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:22 PM

And I always thought the Declaration of Independence said "....Life, Liberty and the Happiness of Pursuit..."

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Amergin
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:22 PM

Aine, I'm with you a bit on that score. My family has been in the New World for about 350 years, we are now scattered all over the country and have fought on various sides in all the wars. So I say thanks to all you folks across the Atlantic for being oppressing enough for my ancestors to want to fight for a free country. Maybe someday their dream will come true....

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Colwyn Dane
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:26 PM

Reading some of your submissions made me aware that my understanding of Canadian history was very poor. Am I corrrect in assuming that colonists in ,pre-revolutionary British North America were paying taxes to the British government, including a tax on tea?

Why didn't the colonists in Canada join the revolution? Were they treated differently, by HM government, from the other colonies?

Looking at Article 11 of the 'Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of....[here follows list of original 13 states]', it reads :

"Canada, acceding to the Confederation, and joining in the measures of the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to, all the advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same unless such admission be agreed to by nine states."

This sounds like the Congress delegates, were expecting a parting of the way between Canada and Great Britain.

Any thoughts on Canadian-American history of the above period?

Thanks for your time and have an enjoyable holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:27 PM

HAPPINESS OF PURSUIT????? Geeziz Micca, I love it!!! And like Willie-O, I like to focus on the similarities...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Morticia
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:31 PM

Over in the pub we intend to set fire to some of the creepy old decorations left over from the last administration and I have a solitary firework saved up from 5th November that I will light in your honour when it gets dark.Have a good one, my little col...ooops, differently countried friends. Terri ( in the U.K, but any excuse for a party)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:54 PM

Willie-O & Micca....LMAO!!! I love it!!

Jeri, sure am glad you aren't in the middle of that now!!Since you are in New England, next Fourth, if you can, go down to Old Deerfield, Massachusetts, and watch the parade, etc. The whole village is authentic colonial homes, some private, some open to the public, and teh parade features a bang-up fife and drum band, as well as many otehr authentic units. When we went one year, my brother was with us. He had a pretty uncanny experience, almost like a "flashback", had a vision of the "real" battles, etc. going on. In that moment he *heard* a new piano and wound up rushing home to write his "George Washington Piano Sonata". Old Deerfield has quite a history and is a good palce to visit anytime, but esp. on the Fourth.

Alice, we had snow the last Fourth I was in Wyoming, in 1983, before we moved to New England! But, we were up in the Big Horn Mountains, trying to camp out! Still it turned out fun, we drove down into Thermopolis and went swimming at the hot springs!

Oh, and Jeri, the HearMe thing is a great idea! This January 1st my stupid neighbours shot off their guns...we are all hoping they won't feel the need tongiht, but flak jackets are at the ready!**BG**

katlaughing

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: DougR
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:18 PM

Liz the Squeek:thanks for the greetings. It's too nice a day to get upset with anybody! Call me anything you like except a liberal.

:>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:40 PM

Colwyn, Canadians were mostly French at that time, and didn't take kindly to the anti-Catholic propaganda coming out of the American revolution. The various attempts to dragoon Canada into the war were laughably bad marketing. Canadians had also been on the French side in the French and Indian war, and were fed up with British-American atrocities. They were not interested in joining an even worse bunch of athiestical radicals than the Protestants who were now their masters.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:41 PM

of course that should read that my brother "heard a new piano composition".....*BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 04:05 PM

Here is a story:

A young Polish woman, who is a trained chef, of an upper middle class family, married and pregnant, with her own home, lots of surrounding family, husband is a soldier. But she has a secret ... she is a part of the Polish Resistance and spends her nights leading Jews out of Poland to safe houses.

There is an infiltrator in her Resistance group and one day the Gestapo literally storms into her house and she is placed into a concentration camp, with no thought that she would live past tomorrow.

She has a talent, though, that is needed in the base commandant's house ... as a chef. She spends the next 6 1/2 years in that camp. She gives birth to her only daughter in that camp and is allowed to keep her. She fared a little better than the other prisoners because she is allowed to eat the "leavings" of the commandant's family and was able to maintain enough breast milk to keep her daughter alive. She arose at 3 AM everyday to start the cooking and stopped only after the kitchen was in order, around midnight. She worked in the fields so the commandant's family had fresh vegetables. She carried her daughter in a pouch, everywhere she went.

Her husband and all her family in Poland died in the camps.

When her camp was liberated, she and her daughter were taken to a displaced person's camp in Germany. I'm not certain how long they stayed there. She was eventually able to find a "room" so they could leave the DPC. Finding work was impossible so she worked various and sundry odd jobs making very, very little money. But even so, there was very little food to buy. More often than not, in order for her daughter to eat, she went hungry. There were often times when both went hungry for days at a time. They almost died of starvation.

When the daughter was almost 12, a relative in Chicago "found" them and sponsored their immigration to the United States.

For many years, she worked 3 jobs to make ends meet ... working in her daughter's parochial school for tuition; cleaning houses; cleaning offices. She saved enough to send her daughter to nurses' school.

This woman's name is Maria Hrycelak, she is 91 years old, and she is my stepmother's mother. She, now, lives with my father and stepmother ... but she remains a fiercely independant woman.

I spent several hours today listening to her. It takes a lot of concentration because she speaks in a mix of Polish, German, Ukranian, and sparse English ... but, make no mistake ... her story comes across loud and clear! My luck is that I pick up languages quickly and understand most of what she is saying.

She talked of how wonderful if was to come to the United States. How she slept so much better because she wasn't worried the Gestapo were going to come. How she eats well, now, but she remembers vividly what abject hunger feels like.

How she cannot understand why so many Americans don't appreciate the freedom they have. How much she loves this country (although, she doesn't necessarily think that North Florida is part of the "regular" United States).

Often when folks talk about their heroes, they name famous people. Not me ... my hero is Maria Hrycelak (Busia).

So ... I thought my day was going to be quiet ... now I have some important things to ponder ... like how I had the freedom to march, protest, and sit-in during the 60's/70's ... like how I can say whatever I want and not worry about being arrested ... like how I can tell this story on a public forum and not fear reprisals from the government ... like how I've never know what it's like to be hungry because there just isn't any food.

While our "democracy" may not be foolproof and our "Constitution" outdated ... take a long look around ...

moonchild

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 04:26 PM

Moon--Atlantic Beach in '98?! I was 45 minutes away in Jacksonville! Of course that was a year before I came here...too bad...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 04:28 PM

King George the third a "pinhead"?? I dont think so.Let's not forget that at the time, the colonists called on Mother England to send soldiers to protect them from the indians. All George wanted was a little help in paying for those troops.I do think he was out of order calling George Washington a "terrorist".

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 04:37 PM

Yes, MBO, Atlantic Beach. That's where the annual family reunion is held. My father's family came over from Ireland and settled in Johnston County, NC, in the early 1700's. One of Daddy's brothers lives in Atlantic Beach, one in Newport, and one in Beaufort. We rent several cottages along the Intracoastal. I love the area ... but then there's not an area in North Carolina that I don't love. If I won the lottery, I'd have a house in the mountains, a cottage at the coast, and a condo in Raleigh ...

moonchild

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 04:47 PM

You got that right! After we had to leave here in 1985, we spent 10 years trying to get back, and get back we did! If you're in the area next time the reunion goes, be sure to look me up!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: DougR
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:31 PM

Moonchild: That is a great story! We really don't know how good we have it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:17 PM

G'day all,

I'm glad to see the thread creep away from the question of who can lay claim to the name 'American'. It seems such an appropriate term - being the gratuitous appropriation of Columbus's discovery by a map maker who stayed at home and lived off other people's work.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Nancy
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:14 PM

Hi Liz, Thanks for the best wishes for the 4th! I take no offense to being called a "colonial" at all and frankly am surprised anyone would.....hmmmmmm, go figure!

If you'd like, please visit my site and follow the links to "4th images" if you'd like to experieice a 4th of July day vicariously through photos. We're a little town at the base of a LARGE mountain and make a big day of it. Cheers, From a Wild Colonial Girl at the base of Mt Shasta.

http://www.jeffersonterritory.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:23 PM

thanks for the story, moonchild ... it reminds me that we are blessed to live in this place and these times.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:46 PM

Yes, Jed, we ALL forget sometimes, and a gentle reminder doesn't hurt ...

moonchild

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Uncle Sam
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:34 PM

"Usables" would be more appropriate.
Also I saw the news footage of Bill aboard some battleship wearing one of his $10,000+ suits, and a ridiculous baseball-type hat.

Sort of said it all for me!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Margo
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:56 PM

LTS, thanks for the greeting! No offence taken at all.

Moonchild, what a wonderful story. I do appreciate this country, and having enough to eat!

So what are we to call ourselves if not "Americans" here in the USA? That's what I grew up calling myself, so I never thought otherwise. Is there another name that is proper, and not slang? Surely not Yankee, as it has been pointed out that Yankee means different things to different people.

Yes, the Canadians were paying taxes to Britain on goods imported from the colonies. Incidentally, Benjamin Franklin's cousin (Folger) and a group of loyalists set up a whaling enterprise based out of Nova Scotia. Folger was loyal to the crown and refused to stand against England. The Nova Scotians were very happy about it because they were paying taxes on imported whale oil.

So you see, all's whale that ends whale!

Margo, ducking for cover :o)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Willie-O
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:57 PM

Spaw, yer kind of a Canadian at heart, really. With the teeny little exception that we're known for a certain blandness of manner caused by a natural effort to be inoffensive to others.

Other than that...yer just like us!

Thanks for the real content, Moonchild--cause that is one way in which our countries are very similar. Lots of people here, as in the States, complain about immigration and fear accepting refugees...when the fact that these people want to come here, to either of our countries--(despite the climate in our case)says something very good about what we take for granted.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Timehiker
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:29 PM

Thanks for the holiday greetings Liz.

Colwyn, here's a brief history lesson. The French surrendered Canada to the British in 1763. The British Parliament had to devise a way to govern the new territories. They couldn't organize them the way the 13 other American colonies were (a royal governor and a locally elected legislative assembly) because most Canadians at the time were Catholic. British law didn't allow Catholics to hold public office. Nearly 10 years later, in 1774, they enacted the Quebec Act. This said that French civil law would continue in Canada, but criminal law would be under the British system, Catholics were granted the right to hold office if they swore an oath of allegiance to The British, and the southern boundary of Quebec was set at the Ohio River. This upset plenty of people in the 13 other colonies. There were still some lingering hostilities from the "French and Indian War". Many American colonists were fervently anti-catholic. And several of the 13 colonies claimed the Mississipi River as their western border. The Quebec Act was one of several acts of Parliament the American colonists lumped together as the "intolerable acts". Most of the other acts were aimed at punishing Boston and Massachusetts for their rebellious acts, instead they galvinized the other colonies to support the Bostonians. The article you quoted may have been an attempt to invite the Canadians into the union of American states, but it wasn't well recieved. The next year Benedict Arnold led an unsuccessful attack on Quebec. Hope that helps some. Happy Canada day to you!

Timehiker

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: Escamillo
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 12:59 AM

I can only speak for my country (Argentina) and no one else, said that, I think that the only ones who deserve our homage were those who gave their lives (or whose lives were taken, or ruined) for that high ideal. The rest was no more than a positive political change of direction, and never a revolution, since:
- We all received a nationality but 99% did not receive a single piece of land.
- Customs offices started to feed another's pockets.
- Same with taxes
- Natives did not receive any special consideration
- Slavery was not abolished
- War continued against natives and neighbours to extend and "privatize" the territory
- War continued against political adversaries
- A Constitution was only a dream, carefully postponed.
I can´t imagine myself saying goodbye to three sons. That´s guts. In that sense, I humbly wish you all a happy celebration of the 4th July, and Canadians (late) for the 1st.
Un abrazo - Andrés (a "sudaca" ) :)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 01:05 AM

After an evening of great food and sitting out watching fireworks from 6 different communities and blowing up the supply of crappola which I brought back from Tennessee (with only a few minor burns), its great to see the real soul of Mudcat from Moon and MANY others on this thread. I just wanted to check in and say that

I like to focus on the similarities........

Spaw-capableofbeatinganydeadhorsesignificantly

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 07:02 AM

To all you septic tanks happy 4th of july.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,Colwyn Dane
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 07:32 PM

Thanks a lot Peter T, Margo and Timehiker for your input to my questions, from which it would appear:

"Thats there is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know."

Harry S. Truman

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,TuttiFrutti
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 11:18 PM

This is the 2nd year in a row that I've missed the Independence Day celebrations--which reminds me of a corny joke: Do the British have July 4th? So ok--I haven't missed July 4th. My British(and Welsh)husband often refers to me as a 'colonial wench' and often someone calls me a 'Yank'--which makes me laugh because I'm from Texas, and occasionally someone will ask me if I'm Canadian--and I smile and say 'No, but I would love to visit Canada one of these days.' No offense taken at any of these--because they were never offered with resentment. I do love living in the UK--but I can honestly say 'Thank goodness we broke away!' If anyone in the USA thinks our taxes are out of control--come live in Britain for a while. You will--like I have--learn to appreciate what you took for granted. Just had to put my 2 cents/pence in! Hope everyone enjoyed their day!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: bob jr
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 01:30 AM

hey tutti frutti ...paid for any health care or dental bills lately? thats another thing we canadians share with england but not with our american nieghbors free health care (although not dental coverage dang!} as a former citizen of the uk all i can say about the taxation is you get what you pay for but you want to compare infant mortality rates between canada us and england and lets say cuba you are gonna be disappointed

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: DougR
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 01:36 AM

bob jr: free health care? I assumed it was paid for with the taxes you pay. Es not so?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 11:12 PM

Couple of observations:,br> To the questions about how natives feel about the fourth, Many North Eastern nations remember England made better treaties and kept them better than the United States and some celibrate with an American flag barbique. As to the observation we have it good here as opposed to the great over there, we cause more than our share of the missery "over there" and as you chear the American warplanes flying over head for the fourth, don't forget the civilians under them who every once and a while get a bomb droped on their heads, paid for by your taxes
Happy fourth just the same...
Larry
PS, I don't mind being called colonial or anything else, as long as I am not called British when I am at home in Ireland. But Liz, I am also part Geordie, as I seem to remember you are as well, eh? Some don't like being called Geordie, but I've always found it a bit of a comfort like

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: GUEST,TuttiFrutti
Date: 07 Jul 00 - 08:50 AM

Nothing is free, man--and that includes the so-called free healthcare in the UK. I pay more a month for this 'free healthcare' than I ever did paying for medical insurance in the US. But you are right Bob jr--it is a free service--one of my closest friends had a back injury which resulted in 2 ruptured discs--very painful and dibilitating. Guess how long she was on a National Insurance waiting list to see the specialist? An entire year and three weeks passed before she could get in to see the specialist and in the time she was waiting, her own GP could only offer pain killers and sympathy. Most people I know over here are making the change to privatised medical. Infant mortality rate? I would invite you back over to Scotland or Wales to have a look at infant mortality first hand--not just reading the stats that are manipulated by political and health authorities. In this past year, meningitis has been a primary killer of kids in the area where I live in the UK --not to mention babies being born with heart disease--we've lost 2 lovely kids in the neighbourhood this past year from it. Now saying that--I also know of certain areas--specifically South Texas in the US where the infant mortality rate is terrible--probably due to polluted water supply. Anyway, I didn't write in to 'knock' the UK--I'm living here by choice and I love it--what I am saying is that on the whole--the USA is not a terrible place to live. The taxes aren't THAT terrible (no tv license fee, no 17.5% sales tax--or vat, no poll tax-which is now called the County Fund tax in which we pay taxes every month on each person living in our house, no matter if we own the house or rent it). The petrol and car taxes are a bit more--but the USA has those also--depending on which state one lives, and of course there's the NHS--which we've covered already. And no--there is no such thing as free dental over here. Ok--I'll jump down off my soap-box now :) Ta!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 00 - 08:04 PM

I think it's quite big of the people living in The Big Country That Is Mostly South of Canada and North of Mexico to have an Australian as a national hero in that remake of Braveheart set on the other side of the Atlantic.

But "Chicken Run" is the real Mel Gibson movie to see, I understand.