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BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!!
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Subject: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Liz the Squeak Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:35 AM Happy 4th of July to all those on the other side of the pond - don't you be doing all that drinking thang, now! Remember, it's work tomorrow just the same!! Have a good, and above all, fight free Fourth! LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,Auxiris Date: 04 Jul 00 - 03:43 AM Thanks for the holiday best wishes, Liz, but could you please not refer to Americans as Colonials the next time? Many of us find that quite offensive. cheers, Aux |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Helen Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:09 AM Besides, LTS, we Colonials in Oz don't celebrate 4th July. Helen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Lepus Rex Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:19 AM How is 'colonials' offensive? Just curious:) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Micca Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:34 AM Is Colonials more or less offensive than Yanks,Yankees, Johnny Rebs,or any of the many terms used for Americans around the world? Should it perhaps have been expressed as Former Colonials? anyway, Happy day to you today and, a bit late, I know, but to the Canadians for their National day 1st of July.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Lepus Rex Date: 04 Jul 00 - 05:55 AM Yanks, Colonials, Johnny Rebs? Honestly, Aurixis is the first American (If Aurixis is an American... Sorry, if I'm wrong) that I've ever seen take offense to one of those words. Maybe I'm just such an arrogant bastard that it takes a lot to offend me, but those words are pretty damned tame compared to the slurs Americans use for other nationalities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:01 AM Well just to stir the pot a bit, thanks to all of you "royalist diehards" for helping us to celebrate our freedom from such as you labour under!**BSEG** Oh and you can call me any of those, no offense taken; besides that at least half of my ancestors fled north to Nova Scotia to fight on your side! Hahaha....Happy Fourth of July Everybody!! katlaughing
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Scabby Douglas Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:31 AM No-one from UK could use the term "Colonial" in anything other than an ironic sense..
It was only meant as a joke, in the same way that people will often use "old Bean" or "pip-pip" in conversation with an English person, or tease a Scot about haggis... Anyway - Happy Fourth of July to all of you from all of us.. Cheers
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,Auxiris Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:16 AM Yes, Aux is an American; no, Aux does not live in America any longer but finds all those reference words mentioned above to be either inaccurate at best or relatively offensive at worst. Aux is also very sorry to have included anyone else's opinion in the post and aplogises profusely. Should have only been speaking for myself, but I did think I was polite, at least and I don't see why people can't just say "American" when they want to refer to people from America. cheers, Aux |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,andy mööer Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:17 AM I'm not nationalistic enough to be offended by the use of 'colonial' .I think it can be ok to stir sometimes (especially when the polenta is getting thick)- - That allmost sounds sublime but it's just nonsense, sublime nonsence?.subliminal nonsence, submarine nonecelance(no idea how to spell that,not 'THAT' but that other thing). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Lepus Rex Date: 04 Jul 00 - 07:39 AM Aux... Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you---that's not what I intended at all. I just thought that it was interesting that some found the terms offensive, and I was wondering why they would. Your entry just made me curious, not angry or anything. So, sorry again. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,Auxiris Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:14 AM L. Rex. . . hi, didn't take it as an attack no need to be sorry, but to explain further, may I just say that I found it rather tactless for someone who lives in England (is that right Liz?) to wish American folks "happy holiday" for their independence day celebration and then turn around and call call them colonials as if America was still a British colony. . . cheers, Aux |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: sophocleese Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:28 AM Irony, wit, friendly joking name-calling, read a few of LTS former postings and you'll see all of the above. No need to get upset Aux, remove the sting, and enjoy the sentiment. Think how pleasant it is for someone on the other side of the pond to be wishing you a happy celebration for today instead of grinding their teeth in anger and frustration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Gary T Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM I guess I saw it in a different light. I took it as lighthearted, almost nonsensical--and refreshingly different, as I don't recall being called a "colonial" before. But of course, we each have our own perspective, which keeps life from being boring. Anyway, thank you Liz for the good wishes. Fight-free should be no problem, but I'll have to contemplate "that drinking thang" between beers (BG). Am I the only curmudgeon Yank who would just as soon not hear various fireworks going off at odd times throughout the week? Hate to spoil anyone's fun, but it sure is annoying. (Just ask the pets!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: kendall Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM Aux, which "Americans" are you talking about |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Gary T Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM Whoops! Thank you Micca and Doug, as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: MikeofNorthumbria Date: 04 Jul 00 - 08:43 AM Dear Mudcatters, Can someone clarify exactly who is entitled to be called "an American"? According to my geography teacher, America is a continent, not a nation, and therefore Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians etc are all bona fide Americans. So how should we address our American friends who happen to be citizens of the USA? "Dear Usatians?" Anyway, whatever you call yourselves, have a good time on the 4th of July. The 4th of July, incidentally, is also Old Midsummers Day - that's going by the Julian Calendar. Over here, the more traditionally minded among us will mark the occasion with bonfires, and also with ale, feasting, and general merrymaking. (Including hobby-horses, green men, and the obligatory morris dancers.) Enjoy it while you can - next year it may be illegal! Wassail! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Gary T Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:05 AM Thank you, Mike, and enjoy Old Midsummer's Day. As to your question--"America" is pretty universally understood to mean the U.S., and "American" to mean someone from the U.S. (noun) or related to the U.S. (adjective). Technically, America is not a continent; South America is, as is North America. And technically, you are right, any resident of the Americas could indeed be called an American. Every other country in the Americas, however, has its own name for its people--Canadians, Brazilians, Mexicans, etc. as you mentioned. No specific name like this (such as "Usatians") has been realistically accepted to be applied to us Yanks. So, we end up being called Americans by default and widespread understanding (if not full agreement). It's not perfect terminology, but it's so well established it's unlikely to change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Callie Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:12 AM I'm interested to know what American Indigenous people might think about 4th July. Is it considered a celebratory day or another day of mourning? Callie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Gary T Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:19 AM Good question, Callie. I'm aware that many Amerinds find Columbus Day to be a sad occasion. My guess would be that Independence Day would not be mourned, as the damage was being done regardless of the form of government, but I don't know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:37 AM Just shoot off a few firecrackers and say screw it. Geezis.............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Callie Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:45 AM Dang, you're right Spaw. This 'thinking' business is no good at all. it won't do. Will see a mechanic about it first thing tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: SDShad Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:51 AM Well, Callie, I can only speak to what I know of folks in Sioux Country, and that only the small sample with whom I'm personally acquainted. For one thing, yes, a lot of Native Americans I think are offended by Columbus Day, at least, but in South Dakota we don't have Columbus Day in October, we have Native American Day. But as for July 4, I've never seen anyone who mourns it or is offended. For one, like all of us goofy hominid meat puppets, Natives are as willing as anyone to gather for the celebration of mutual cultural reference points. And of a lot of the Dakota, Nakota and Lakota I know, even ones who know their history quite well and can cite for you chapter and verse what's been done to them in the name of the United States, for all that you'd be surprised how much patriotism they often feel. Maybe it's the old warrior tradition, I don't know, but I've been told that South Dakota sent more young men per thousand population than any other state to the VietNam War, because of all the young men from the Sioux Federation who volunteered to "do their duty." So yeah, Native Americans celebrate July 4, but not all. There are also White folks to whom this is just another day too, though. Well, this here Wild Colonial Boy is off to celebrate at a local coffee shop with biscotti and cappucino. (So this is what they fought for?) :-) Chris |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,The Yank Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:51 AM Only residents of the U.S. would be presumptious and preposterous enough (Can you spell "Hubris"?) to adopt the term "Americans" as pertaining solely to the residents of the United States- particularly as the only real "Americans"- the indigenous populations- were early on annihilated by their European Immigrant progenitors. As to the psychological problems of U.S. citizens who takes offense at the term "colonials"- and who doubtless routinely refers to residents of the British Isles as "Brits" and residents of Scotland as "English", enough has been said above. C'mon, folks.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Callie Date: 04 Jul 00 - 09:55 AM Thanks Chris, I've learnt something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: JedMarum Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:17 AM Come on, folks; how can we take a light hearted, well wisher's best wishes for a grand national holiday and turn it into a discussion on political sesnitivities??? Enjoy the moment. Take the greeting for what it intended; a blessing for US Americans on their anniversary of their nation's independednce. Thank you Liz! I appreciate your kind thoughts on this day, and enjoy your humor! You know, I once told an English friend of mine that my favorite US holiday was Thanksgiving. He told me the British celebrate Thanksgiving too. I said, "They do?" and he said, "Ya, only we celebrate it on the Fourth of July, because that's when we got rid of you lot!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Willie-O Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:25 AM Oh fer chrissakes. We don't want to be Americans. That's why we live in Canada. We can tell the difference even if others can't! (This is the point where some well-intentioned American says 'I'd rather focus on our similarities'. Please spare us this remark.) Why would native peoples of this continent want to be referred to by the name of an Italian navigator? They already have perfectly good names for their many and diverse nations. Anyway happy fourth of July to Her Majesty's rebellious subjects in Central North America... Willie-O |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:41 AM I'd rather focus on our similarities...... Sorry....had to be said. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: kendall Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:43 AM It's important to think. Otherwise, we would be on a par with slugs. It's also important to know when to lighten up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,Mrrzy-who-lost-her-cookie-at-Mom's Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:48 AM I'll reset it later. Anyway, just wanted to say this about that - in Spanish-speaking countries in Europe what are called Americans everywhere else seem to be called Norte Americanos - I guess to distinguish it from the rest of The Americas colonialized by Iberians. And blithely ignoring the Canadians, as does the term Americans. In the same vein, here is what I learned from my sister who attended Middlebury (Vermont): Most places in the world, Yankee means American. The moral of the story is, terminology is relative, and note that AGAIN, Canada is ignored... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Jeri Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:48 AM We're referred to as Americans because of "United States Of." It might not be completely correct, but we're referring to the country, not the continent. I've been called an American by Canadians whom I've met, who seemed to prefer being called Canadians. I've never heard of any USian who has seen the term "colonial" meant any way but humorously, until now. This morning, I went to a small local store. They put on a free breakfast (eggs, bacon, potatoes, toast, fruit cups) for everyone who came. We played music. A couple of pipers in full regimental dress (on their way to an Event) stopped and played Amazing Grace. The flag was raised, and after a brief bit of history, The Declaration of Independance was read from the front steps of the store. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: JedMarum Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:52 AM Thanks Willie-O, we're still workin' on that taxation thing. Seems to be a very long term issue! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:59 AM I'd still rather focus on the similarities........ Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:08 AM Thanks Liz...and thanks for sharing your morning with us, Jeri. It's hot here in Kentucky, and a little rain, but I'm flying my flag between showers, singing Stars and Stripes Forever and watching fireworks on TV. There will be more fireworks all over town tonight. Oh yes, I'll eat some more watermelon and visit friends tonight. I'm not a beer drinker, but a friend routinely brings me bottles of wine from all over the world, and we'll hopefully uncork one tonight! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Jeri Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:16 AM In case folks from other countries aren't aware of this, we shoot off fireworks. There are official displays put on by cities and towns. There are also unofficial fireworks going off all over the place. In some neigborhoods, it can sound like a full-scale war. Maybe we ought to go to HearMe later, so we can share the sound of patriotic US'n's blowing stuff up. ("Ok, the gunfire-like fireworks you hear are from the blue house down the street on the left. The house across the street is answering with something that sounds like a grenade, and the whisle-bomb noise is from somewhere around the bend I can't see from here.") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:20 AM What's really funny is when all the dogs start howling along with the booms and whistles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:22 AM Just returning from Tennessee, I am (as you would expect of my cretinous self), well stocked for the day with assorted explosive stuff. Mainly I have a nice assortment of larger bottle rockets and and some of Jeri's whistling/sceaming mohunkers. Also, I have a few gross of the ever popular "Jumping Jacks" which guarantee injury to innocent spectators as well as yourself. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: bbelle Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:33 AM I agree that LTS's well-wishes were just that ... and thank you. Jeri ... what a great way to start off your day! Having traveled our New England states, I've noticed that they "do-up" most holidays better than I've ever seen elsewhere, e.g., Halloween in any other state pales in comparison to Massachusetts. My day will be quiet. Most years I've attended my father's annual family reunion, which always takes place 4th of July week. (My father is one of 5 brothers and a sister, aged 69-83; all still very active.) This year, however, I'm staying with my stepmother's 91 y/o mother, so she can accompany my father. So, the day will be uneventful but a good day for some much need "laying back." Enjoy your days, all, and be careful ... moonchild |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: IvanB Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:55 AM Well, "colonials" I can accept, but "losing your cookie at mom's?" Can ANYONE consider that a proper way to spend the 4th? *BG*, and have a good one everyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: GUEST,Peter T. Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:56 AM Wait till the Brits see that piece of lunacy, "The Patriot"! They will be calling Yanks a lot worse than colonials. Until then, just keep repeating: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among which are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness!" We can all celebrate the day those words were proclaimed and the country that proclaimed them -- the most powerful weapon created in the past two centuries, and the most powerful weapon of the next. Happy Birthday, fellow North Americans!!!! yours, Peter T (Johnny Canuck). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Alice Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:56 AM Hi, LTS, thanks for the well wishing. As far as the colonial term, Montana was never a colony so it is not a term I personally could identify with. Most of the 50 states were not colonies. It's a big country. Many people think of themselves as citizens of their state as well as citizens of the country. As far as this "American" term others discussed, I've never known a Canadian or Mexican to Want to call themselves an American (that means US citizen).
The big event in our town, like many others, will be the huge fireworks display tonight.
Thanks again for the Happy greeting! Alice in Montana |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:59 AM Oh good Peter.....'cause ya' know I'd still rather focus on the similarities. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Naemanson Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:04 PM Thank you Liz for your best wishes. Happy Fourth from this United Statesian to my fellow United Statesians! If you celebrate the Fourth with a fifth please be careful. Other thoughts: My brother-in-law is a Mexican citizen currently living in these United (Untied?) States. He makes no bones about calling me an American and himself a Mexican. He is proud of his country and his heritage. He and my sister have worked hard to make sure my niece is aware of both sides of her own heritage. Some memories of past celebrations: 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998 - Spent the time schooner caroling for the fleet achored in North Haven thoroughfare. 1976 - Fired the first salute to this country's 200th birthday. Witnessed by then Congressman Bill Cohen. Beat the official salute by a matter of seconds. 1969 - Spent the day fighting a small forest fire set off by our own version of fireworks (blasting caps in black powder). OOPS! Only about an acre or two damaged due to quick action on the part of family and neighbors. Any other takers on this bit of thread creep? What are your memories of this holiday? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Alice Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:12 PM 1976 - You fired the first salute to this country's 200th birthday? Wow! I can't think of anything that comes even close to that! -alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: bbelle Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:16 PM 1964 ... Cape Hatteras, NC ... Daddy built a fireworks display on the beach but didn't realize which way the rockets were trained when he lit it ... the "family" jewels almost bit the dust ... 1976 ... Washington, DC ... Bicentennial Fireworks display on the Mall. 1979 ... Portland, OR ... Arrived there to make it my home for the next 12 years. 1998 ... Atlantic Beach, NC ... Family Reunion ... Watched the fireworks display and put on a concert with various cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, and nephews. moonchild |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Alice Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:25 PM 1986 - Watched it snow. Waited several days before the town could do the fireworks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: sophocleese Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:33 PM Talking about fireworks...(here's a similarity for you Spaw) on Canada Day those of us north of the center also light fireworks. I missed them, as I wasnside singing at the time, but caught up last night when the next door neighbour decided to set some off. Just after we'd got the kids calmed down enough to sleep. No accidents though, thankfully. I get curmudgeonly about fireworks when they pump out loud canned music to go along with them. A live brass band would be wonderful but the local rock station setting up a sound system to play crap is awful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Áine Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:51 PM As a still-rebellious descendant of the Usations that fought in the American Revolution, I'd like to say a great big thank you to my British cousins for their greetings on this wonderful holiday. Whatever differences there may be between the citizens of the USA, at least we can be thankful for that wonderful document, the American Constitution, that laid the groundwork for the rights and freedoms that we have today. Even though we may still be fighting for some rights, at least the Constitution gave us all the right to fight. And to my fellow wild Colonial brothers and sisters -- Go forth and celebrate!! And raise a hotdog to dear old King George for being such an reactionary pinhead, and dear old Sam Adams for being such an impatient fomenter in Lexington so long ago. -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Naemanson Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:57 PM Alice, snow on the Fourth Of July is a pretty big deal! I'm from Northern Maine and never saw that! Especially if they had to delay the fireworks several days! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holidays, Colonials!! From: Jeri Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:16 PM Here, fireworks are things that go "boom" in the night and look pretty. They're not meant to kill people, and most people don't see them as symbols of "the rocket's red glare, bombs bursting in air." They're more associated with the 4th July here than words on a document written centuries ago. Two years ago, I didn't watch or hear any fireworks, although we brought some with us. There was no celebration, and all was quiet. I'm grateful for that - I was in Kuwait, and the fireworks were real. |