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Subject: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: GUEST,Piet with an "i" Date: 15 Jul 00 - 04:51 PM If the British marched to "the World Turned Upside Down" [Buttercups] at their surrender at Yorktown, how did they handle the fact that it is in 3/4 time? did they march Left-drag-right? did they alternate left and right downbeats? This has always bugged me. Search for "upside" threads |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: Bill D Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:00 PM they were all limping, using their bayonets as crutches |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: Jeri Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:18 PM The World Turned Upside Down I'm familiar with is in 4/4. I do believe people have marched to things in 6/8, if not 3/4. In 6/8, you'd take a step on 1st and 4th beats. With 3/4, you'd have to alternate feet - LEFT, right, left, RIGHT, left, right. |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: dick greenhaus Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:30 PM There are at least three tunes I'm familiar with that have that title. |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: IvanB Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:36 PM A slow march can also be done to a 3/4 tune by stepping only on the first beat of each measure. |
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Subject: Tune Add: THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN From: Jeri Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:39 PM If you can use ABCs, here's the one I'm used to hearing. The ABCs have it changing to D after one time through in G. (I snipped the D part off for brevity.) I wonder if that's how it was played, or whether the person who wrote the ABCs just wanted it in two keys.
X:1 |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:54 PM Jeri, is that the tune that the British were supposed to have played at Yorktown? I have the same problem Dick has- I keep getting the tunes confused. Were there words to the Yorktown tune? -Joe Offer, still trying to appreciate all the implications of Bill D's comment- |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: Jeri Date: 15 Jul 00 - 05:58 PM I always believed this was the tune, Joe, but I'm now confused about the other tunes. |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Jul 00 - 06:20 PM Yup, Jeri, I'm confused, too. The others are talking about a tune in 3/4 time, so that wouldn't be the one you typed. The only tune I really know is the one used by Leon Rosselson on his song about the diggers, also called World Turned Upside Down. I guess this one (AKA Derry Down) is the one connected with the U.S. Revolution. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: oggie Date: 15 Jul 00 - 06:21 PM As a funeral march - 1=right foot down, 2= lift left foot and bring left leg level with right leg, 3=move left forward, 1=left foot down etc. All the best Steve |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: Jeri Date: 15 Jul 00 - 06:50 PM Joe, I've never heard the tune to the song you linked to. The tune for Leon Rosselson's song, I believe is his. The one I posted is the one I've heard fife and drum corps perform as the one supposedly played during the British surrender.
Songs of the Revolution
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: InOBU Date: 15 Jul 00 - 08:03 PM They were gallumphing Larry |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 16 Jul 00 - 06:54 PM "When the king enjoys his own again" is a song by Martin Parker, c 1643. An ABC of the tune is B511 on my website. For the song, (in Bishop Percy's Folio MS and broadside ballad expansions of it) see ZN2787 in the broadside ballad index on my website (www.erols.com/olsonw). There are some other titles for the song (and the tune is called "The Restoration of King Charles" in Vol. III of 'The Dancing Master'), but "When the king receives.." is a new one on me.
Here's one song of the period, one of several 'World Turned Upside Down' ones. A Song.
The world is now turn'd upside-down.
Prince Rupert made fair words work 'tother day,
And Essex his hornes hung so in his light,
Then send for W----- and give him good pay,
This would appear to be earlier than "The World Turn'd upside Down" of April, 1646 (that to the tune of "When the King enjoys his own again"), commencing "Listen to me and you shall hear" ( reprinted by H. E. Rollins in 'Cavalier and Puritan', #15, ZN3429).
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: georgeward Date: 17 Jul 00 - 03:04 AM It might help if we knew the original source for the story that something titled "The World Turned Upside Down" was played at Yorktown. I believe, Jeri, that you're right that it is not clear that it really was. But it has been a long time since I delved into that stuff. Is anyone enough of a Revolutionary War buff to have an early source for the story ? If I know my ABCs, Jer, your tune is the one we used to play at Saratoga NHP. Unfortunately, that only gets us back to 1975. George ::-.--O |
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:23 AM Marches are considered to be n 2/4 time, not 4/4. The time signature that you are listening to, or at least, we suppose you are listening to(since there are several tunes you could be talking about) , is not 3/4, it is 6/8, which is a compound time built on 2/4 (think of it as 2/4 with triplets on each beat, which, in essence, is what it is). Most. or at least many military marches from before the Sousa era tended to be in 6/8, and in fact, Sousa tended(at least, I was told by a friend of my father's, who had played with Sousa) to play in 6/8. The triplets give a lift to the marching beat, and when you travel on foot, after the first four or five hours of marching, you need all the lift you can get. The fife and the multiplicity of different types of pipes, lend themselves to playing triplets well, and when you think about it, many of our tradtional melodies, especially for dancing, tend to feature a triplet feel, from jigs to reels, to strathspeys, to hornpipes. As time has past, and the uses that these melodies have been put to has changed, the melodies have gotten to be played with different pulses and different tempos Since nobody has posted them yet, here are my two favorite MIDI's, Lesley Nelson's arrangement of When the King Enjoys His Own Again and John Renfro Davis' military sounding 6/8 version of The World Turned Upside Down
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:23 AM Marches are considered to be n 2/4 time, not 4/4. The time signature that you are listening to, or at least, we suppose you are listening to(since there are several tunes you could be talking about) , is not 3/4, it is 6/8, which is a compound time built on 2/4 (think of it as 2/4 with triplets on each beat, which, in essence, is what it is). Most. or at least many military marches from before the Sousa era tended to be in 6/8, and in fact, Sousa tended(at least, I was told by a friend of my father's, who had played with Sousa) to play in 6/8. The triplets give a lift to the marching beat, and when you travel on foot, after the first four or five hours of marching, you need all the lift you can get. The fife and the multiplicity of different types of pipes, lend themselves to playing triplets well, and when you think about it, many of our tradtional melodies, especially for dancing, tend to feature a triplet feel, from jigs to reels, to strathspeys, to hornpipes. As time has past, and the uses that these melodies have been put to has changed, the melodies have gotten to be played with different pulses and different tempos Since nobody has posted them yet, here are my two favorite MIDI's, Lesley Nelson's arrangement of When the King Enjoys His Own Again and John Renfro Davis' military sounding 6/8 version of The World Turned Upside Down
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Subject: RE: How to march to 'World Turned upsidedown From: georgeward Date: 18 Jul 00 - 03:59 AM Perhaps I shouldn't be answering my own question, but... From Raoul F. Camus, Military Music of the American Revolution (Chapel Hill, Univ. of North Carolina Press, 1976) pg. 163: Alexander garden wrote in 1828 that "the British army marched out with the colours cased, and the drums beating a British or German march. The march they chose was - The World Turned Upside Down" Many writers have since referred to this tune, skilfully embroidering the legend. The fact is, however, that the song was not recognized by the majority, if any, of the witnesses, for none of the contemporary journals located to date deemed it worth of mention. Camus goes on to enumerate contemporary sources that mention no specific music at all. He quotes several which do make general reference to the sort of airs and cadences that were heard by those in attendance. But his conclusion is that, "the sole source of the legend seems to be the anecdote written by Garden in 1828." [i.e. two generations after the event - GW] I'd recommend Camus as a starting point to anyone interested in pursuing this. He does conclude that IF Garden had a witness who did hear something which he or she identified as TWTUD, that something might have been "When the King Enjoys His Own Again". Units present would have known it, and it was suitable for a slow march. But hey, its folklore! -George ::-.--O
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