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Songwriting class
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Subject: Songwriting class From: TheOldMole Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:34 PM I'm teaching a course this fall on song lyric writing. It's a college sourse, so it's not the "How to Write a Hit Song" kind of thing. My philosophy in general for an undergrad creative writing course is that we're studying an art form - reading (in this case also listening) and learning about it by writing creative work rather than analytic papers. I've taught it in the past genre by genre - this year I've decided to do it a little differently. I'm breaking it down into: 1. Songs that tell a story (e.g., John Henry, Johnny B. Goode) 2. Songs that stress characterization a: Songs that create the songwriter as character (e.g., Tori Amos) b: Songs that create a dramatic character (e.g., musical theater) 3. Songs that send a message (e.g., Which Side Are You On?) 4. Songs that convey pure emotion (e.g., Oh Boy) Of course, these categories are just hatracks for the purpose of starting discussion, generating writing assignments, and getting my students to start thinking about what songs do. I'd be delighed to get suggestions for songs that illustrate each category -- not just folk songs. I'll be talking about Tin Pan Alley, Broadway, country, blues, rock and roll, calypso, reggae, etc. I'd especially like suggestions from the 80s and 90s - I'm weak on the newer stuff. And while I don't want to knock myself out with a million subcategories...if there's anything really obvious that I missed, I'd appreciate suggestions there too. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Ed Pellow Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:48 PM Interesting question. My immediate thought of a missed category, is songs where the lyrics are (literally or essentially) meaningless, and the voice is just being used as a melody instrument (Lennon and McCartney admited that the majority of their pre '65 songs were like this) As far as your other categories are concerned, there are far too many to mention for most of them. One song that springs to mind for pure emotion is 'Teenage Kicks' by the Undertones. Makes me wish I was that young again! I'll have a think and get back again later Ed |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: TheOldMole Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:53 PM I thought that would be included under the "pure emotion" -- like "Tutti Frutti" |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: sophocleese Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:59 PM 1. I Hate Mondays, by the Boomtown Rats I think. 2. Watching the Detectives, by Elvis Costello. 2a. Umm, Boy George? Mostly because I can't actually remember any song he sang but I can see his image clearly in my head, the visual is the lasting impression. 3. A lot of stuff by The Clash. 4. Don't Worry be Happy? Its kind of fun to try and remember what I used to listen to and what I hear on the radio; whether I want to or not in some places. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Mbo Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:05 PM For 90's pure emotion songs... Song 2 --by Blur Be The One --by Hootie & The Blowfish Creep --by Radiohead Do The Evolution --Pearl Jam --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Ed Pellow Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:07 PM I was thinking more along the lines of songs (such as the early Beatles stuff) where although the lyrics might have some meaning in a literal sense, they actually don't really matter, it's the overall 'sound' of the song that does. Personally, I'd put that sort of song into a very different category, than 'Tutti Frutti' which is pure emotion, but as you say you don't want a million sub-categories... Another one I'd recommend for 'pure emotion' would be 'There She Goes' by The La's (to my mind the perfect pop song) Wish I could come on your course! Ed
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Mbo Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:15 PM Don't forget "Helter Skelter" by the Beatles for pure emotion! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Ed Pellow Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:16 PM or pure drunkeness... |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:33 PM I only write very occasionally - mostly for political purpose - but I wonder if your categorisation really works. By the way, if you want a "character" song (if the category is meaningful), how about "Arnold Lane" - Pink Floyd? |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: JenEllen Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:34 PM Pure emotion songs for me...remember "I Want Candy" by BowWowWow? that one was pure 80's....these just off the top of my skull...
Songs that Tell a Story:
Songwriter as a Character:
Songs that Send a Message:
Pure Emotion Songs: |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Jim Dixon Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:41 PM For "songwriter as character" how about Tom Waits? Anyhow, you ought to find some way to work his songs in. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: tradsteve Date: 19 Jul 00 - 02:39 AM Don't forget to work Elliott Smith in. He's a genius, and his songs are filled with passion. He may fit into songwriter as character. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Jim Krause Date: 19 Jul 00 - 12:18 PM Here's a suggestion for just plain pure cleverness. How about Henry C. Work's "My Grandfather's Clock." Don't laugh. The writing is brilliant, especially in the second verse: Not a servant more faithful he found For it wasted no time, for it had but one desire At the close of each day to be wound. And it kept in its place Not a frown upon its face And its hands never hung by its side. . . |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: GUEST Date: 19 Jul 00 - 05:53 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jul 00 - 06:12 PM Interesting to note that, apart from John Henry, there has not been one single traditional song mentioned in the thread so far. Or, so far as I can see, any non-traditional neo-folk songs, eg Woody Guthrie, Ewan McColl Richard Thompson etc etc. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: TheOldMole Date: 19 Jul 00 - 10:26 PM Thanks to everyone - some great suggestions. Richard B. -- I have no doubt that these categories don't work at all, for any number of purposes. But for my purpose, which is to stimulate discussion, to consider songs, to work across the grain of conventional genres, and to generate writing assignments, I think they'll work. Of course, I'd be open to ideas for better categories. Soddy...I'd never laugh at a song that's delighted as many people as "Grandfather's Clock." In fact, that's one of the things I'm going to be stressing in this class...don't be too quick to dismiss songs just because they're in genres you don't normally listen to. Ed P. -- interesting category. The Eddie Jefferson/King Pleasure/Lambert-Hendricks-Ross "vocalese" songs would be another example. But the thing about words...they always end up meaning something, even if you set out to make them meaningless. The nonsense words to "Parker's Mood" became a moving elegy to Bird -- and a somewhat macabre one, since the song was released when Bird was still alive. The early Lennon-McCartney songs are the same way. They may not have meant anything by "I Want to Hold Your Hand," but it comes out as a joyous outburst of emotion. "Baby's In Black" is about as meaningless a lyric as you can name, but it does tell a story of sorts. And so on. Sopho, Mbo, Jim - and especially JenEllen, because songwriter-as-persona was proving to be an elusive category for me - thanks a lot.
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Jim Dixon Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:16 AM Not much has been said here about "songs that create a character" as in musical theatre - I don't watch much musical theatre - it's not my favorite genre - but I was once very impressed by a production of "A Little Night Music" by Stephen Sondheim. I was impressed by the fact that - unlike every other musical I had seen - the songs were integrated with the plot. Some exposition occurred in the songs. You learned things from the songs about the characters and their relationships. To give an example, one man, while going to bed, sings a song in which he reveals that his marriage has not been consummated, and he considers the pros and cons of trying once again to seduce his wife, and ends up deciding to just go to sleep. Then the wife sings a song - both are sort of soliloquies - in which she reveals how guilty she feels about depriving her husband, and how frightened she is of losing her virginity. Talk about keeping an audience spellbound! Before hearing these songs, the audience had no way of knowing this couple had a sexual problem! I was blown away! For "songwriter as character" there's also Garth Brooks as Chris Gaines - not that I care much for it myself, but it IS contemporary. An interesting sidelight: I understand the reason Paul Simon's "One Trick Pony" album was a commercial failure was that he was trying to write songs to go with the movie by that name, and he wanted them to sound like they were written by the character he played. Unfortunately, the character was a rather morose loser, and the songs show it. In other words, realism went too far! |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: TheOldMole Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:20 AM A wonderful character-revealing song is "I'll Know" from "Guys and Dolls," where Sgt. Sarah and Sky each sing of their fantasy love, and in the process reveal their differences. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: WyoWoman Date: 20 Jul 00 - 02:00 AM I agree with Jim D. that Tom Waits is a must for the class. Such delicious melancholy and grit. Tremendously evocative music, even though it often depresses me and/or makes me want three or four fingers of Old Bushmill's straight up, no chaser. College students certainly would appreciate Waits' "The Piano Has Been Drinking." This sounds like a cool course. Wish I was in the neighborhood and could sit in. Maybe you could create an online course? Thanks for the thread, WyoWoman |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:45 AM "I'd never laugh at a song that's delighted as many people as "Grandfather's Clock." " - I'm sure that would take Henry C Work aback - it's meant to raise a few chuckles. Sentimental, but funny with it.
The categories overlap of course. If you think of Woody Guthries songs like Ludlow Massacre there's a strong story and a strong political message tied up together. You get that with any number of Irish songs too - the Foggy Dew isn't just an account of the Easter Rising, it's a call to arms. Arthur MacBride is a funny story, and it's an anti-cponscription and recruitment song.
Or you get songs that on the face of them are love songs, or even about nature, like The Green Linnet, which are really about political events.
How I'd see it is not so much what category songs fall into, but rather what might be your reason for making up or finding a song - which means for a start a break between a song that is primarily for dancing, and one that primarily for listening to. Then the listening somgs might be songs you'd want to sing on a march or a picket, and songs you'd sing to someone you were in love with, or to cheer yourself up when you've been dumped... and so forth. |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: TheOldMole Date: 20 Jul 00 - 10:07 AM McGrath - I think of that as "laughing with." |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: Mbo Date: 20 Jul 00 - 10:11 AM As for Songs that Create a Character, how about "Now That I've Taken My Life" by Tom Paxton? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Songwriting class From: TheOldMole Date: 20 Jul 00 - 10:13 AM Wyo - thanks for the vote of confidence. And yes, I definitely plan to use Tom Waits. I'll post the song list I end up using when I finally make it up, but meanwhile, here's the syllabus...uh oh, gotta run. Syllabus later.
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