Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???

Subject: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: JedMarum
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 05:20 PM

My wife an I have had the pleasure of our two older sons, and their friends around the house this summer (semester break, and resettling to Dallas). And we've all be sharing the same PC (that's a problem for another thread!) - but as my youngest returns to college I have decided to get him his own PC and think I'd like to try purchasing one on-line. Before I go off in search of the best deals, I though I'd ask my learned Mudcat friends;

Have you bought one on line? Or heard from friends of their personal experience?

Can you recommend this as a good idea? If so, who? Gateway? or any of the other big names?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: GUEST,Chin Up
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 05:22 PM

One word.

DELL

End of discussion.

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: SeanM
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 05:44 PM

Also, if you're not much of a computer person, I'd suggest getting something with a service contract. Gateway.com tend to be substantially more expensive than lesser known dealers, but they're VERY easy to construct what you want online, and I've never heard a complaint about their tech service. My roomate's computer lost the CDROM drive 4 years after he bought it, and since he'd paid for the 5 year contract, they sent him a new one, and offered to have someone come out and install it.

However, if you ARE tech-savvy, or have ready access to someone who is, you can get an equivalent system for anywhere between 30%-80% off of their price. You just don't get the service.

M

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 07:17 PM

I bought my current computer from Gateway, and I'm very happy with it. Everything came as promised, and set-up was simple. I had a problem with my video card, and they sent a new one via overnight mail, with a paid return envelope for the old card, and talked me through the installation process.

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 10:10 PM

I shopped on line and in town, and decided that it was worth the tricial extra cost to not have to do so much myself, but buy at a big store and take it to them to replace stuff... I only do software, as in the old light bulb joke. It was basically a choice of laziness, not price. Price was better online. But when one boy destroyed my mouse, I had another in 15 mn, not the next day.

One thing I did do at the store was refuse any prepackaged deal. I shopped (read: bargained) for the monitor, the this, the that, and ended up with a free scanner and spike bar and other accoutrements by chatting up the salesguy and then calling in the manager for a sweet smile... Without that, it would have been even cheaper, by comparison, online.

Never be afraid to bargain just because prices are set, if you're dropping a respectable amount of cash.

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Terry K
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:22 AM

I recently went through the exercise, assessed them all and went for DELL - have absolutely no regrets and would highly recommend them.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:34 AM

I bought my previous computer from Gateway, and I was pleased with the price, performance, and technical support. Then I bought stock in Compaq, so I figured I ought to take advantage of the stockholder discount - BIG MISTAKE. I've had lots of problems, and very poor customer support. Compaq needs to get its act together.
What I'd suggest is that you look for computers on the Web, but order them on the phone. I think it helps to talk to somebody - and sometimes you can find out about extra stuff you might miss on the Web.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: MMario
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 08:18 AM

see Joe Offer's reply. However, I will also put in a "thunbs up" for DELL. For both my nephew and niece when they went off to college went with Dells. The deciding factor was that the warranty could be extended several years with an ON SITE service agreement for a very low price. FOr both kids that ended up being a free upgrade when they had problems after a couple years. (Colleges are tough on computers. Many have inadaquate power, which puts additional stress on the components)

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 10:58 AM

My approach to purchasing would be to by a PC magazine and look through the prices and for any indications as towards the companies reputations. In the UK, I doubt that I would end up buying from any of the big boys and would probably end up dealing with one of the smaller companies that are well established and have a good reputation, Dan and Evesham are 2 that come to mind. I would imagine a similar situation exists in the US and you could probably get a better deal by considering other companies.

Of the big boys, Dell and Gateway do have excellent reputations and are worth considering. I don't know what Compaq are like over here now but my brother had some very unhappy dealings with them a few years ago and judging by Joe Offers comments, they are probably best avoided.

I think SeanM made an important point when he said you need to consider your own technical ability when makeing a purchase and I made a reccomendation for my mother that I would not normally have considered - It was a Packard Bell who in fairness to them do seem to have improved somewhat. The reasoning was simple. It was a reasonable deal, my mother is one of those who tends to panic when something goes wrong with computers, the shop is only 15 minutes away from her and the call out service/ support deal made it IMO the best deal in her circumstances.

Personally, I would not go for the extended service /warranty deals. I have a theory that as a general rule, electronic components either fail very early on in their life (say within 12 months - which is normally covered on a standard deal) or give many years good service and I feel that at least UK, the risk of a failure does not warrant the cost. Having said that, there is the peace of mind factor and that may be important to some and in fairness, I am speaking as someone who could build a PC.

Another thing to consider on the warranty deals is how long you are likely to keep the computer and what its value will be in X years time. With the speed that this technology is changing, is it really worth paying for 5 years cover?

Jon

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 11:41 AM

I have to agree with the above assesment of Compaq

I had a Presario 4150 which used to go off and do its own thing on the hard drive for minutes at a time and I have a deskpro at work which has been rebuilt at least twice and even now the CD drive often decides not to run .inf and autoruns.

One of our guys bought a machine built to order from MESH but I don't know if they spread as far as Dallas. Evesham is also pretty good but I think they are only in the UK

You can beat em down over bits you don't want from package deals. (How many flatbeds can you fit in a small study?)

(The Wandering Minstrel is an MCP software consultant in another life)

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jed at Work
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:43 PM

Well, y'all have been most helpful. I appreciate your comments. I am computer literate, though I'm no geek (well maybe I'm a geek, just not a computer geek) - but I suspect I want to go the simplest, pre-assembeld way. It sounds like I could do that via on-line (or phone). I'll be looking into my options this week. I may come back with specific questions. Thanks all - very much.

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: SeanM
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 02:21 PM

Jon,

I used to think the same thing about "how long am I going to want to keep this almost instantly outdated thing?"... Then I talked to my mother, who was finally looking at replacing her 386, because she was finally shelving WordStar and Quicken1.0 and upgrading... This was in January.

Buying a computer should be taken a lot like buying a car. Figure out what you need it for, do the research, find a price you're willing to pay, and stick to your guns. If all you're doing is home office work, chances are you don't need the VoodooGrafix 3d Blaster card, stereo quality speakers, 3d support, etc.

Remember if you go to a Mortar 'n' Brick computer store - chances are that just like the car salesman you'd be dealing with on an auto lot, the computer salesman you meet is probably on comission. Beware.

M

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: DougR
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 02:44 PM

Jed: You might check out Ubid.com I recently purchased a sound blaster sound card which normally retails for around $100 for $63 including shipping. A friend of mine has bought a couple of computers and a couple of monitors from Ubid.com also and has been very satisfied. Usually several brands are offered.

DougR

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:18 PM

Almost 3 years ago, I bought a rebuilt Packard Bell from PB's warehouse online. It was fully loaded and came with speakers and mouse but no monitor- I had a 17" monitor I wanted to keep. The whole thing including shipping was under $700.

I'm going to be replacing it soon because it's getting old (Isn't that amazing??) and I want a faster modem but it has served me well.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 04:10 PM

Hi Jed....Same advice you've been getting from here too. We have a Gateway 450 and its super and very easy to get up and running when it arrived. My brother-in-law who researches the hell out of everything just upgraded and bought a monster Dell that's been great so far. Sister Connie has a Compaq that's a POS ( but she keeps defending it...its trash, but you hate to admit you got screwed..well in most cases anyway).

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Branwen23
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 05:31 PM

I work in the retail computer business... I've worked for Compusa, Circuit City, and now I work for Gateway. When I worked at other stores, I sold all brands of computers and saw all brands get returned or brought in for service; I saw unhappy customers all day long. Of all the computers I've sold and worked with, the only one I would EVER buy is Gateway. I've never BOUGHT a computer before in my life. I've always built my own from scratch. But I'll be ordering my Gateway in a couple of weeks. They use ALL name brand components in the machines (e.g. Nvidia graphics, Western Digital hard drive, Toshiba DVD, 3Com modem, etc), and any Pentium III machine comes w/ a 3 year warranty STANDARD and lifetime free tech support. Before I worked on the sales floor at Gateway, I worked in the service dept. in the same store. I have never seen better service at any store I've ever worked. If it breaks, they fix it. Fast.

The systems are a little more expensive than pre-manufactured ones, but for the money I would spend going out and buying all the name brand stuff and putting it together myself, it really comes out about the same and you get the warranty. I've stayed with Gateway longer than any other place I've worked in this business for one reason: It's easy to sell a good product.

I'm not saying Dell isn't a good machine. Dell and Gateway are virtually the same as far as the actual product. Gateway uses better sound cards (Soundblaster, Dell uses Turtle Beach) and better CDRW... but for the most part, the quality of the product ia about the same. But because of the way Gateway is set up in the US, they are able to provide better support. They have the Country Stores where you can go in and ask questions, get software training if you need it, and there's a service center in every store where they do the work in house. You don't have to ship your system off anywhere. Plus, you can go in anytime just to ask questions or get upgrades. With Dell, if you have trouble getting through on their 800 number, or you don't wat to ship your PC to Austin, TX, well, you're out of luck. Gateway has Coutry Store locations in every state, more than one in most.

The most important thing is to get all the information you can about any company you're considering buying from. That's my info on Gateway and Dell. Maybe someone else knows something I don't. Hope I was helpful.

-Branwen-

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 08:51 PM

Good comments Branwen but one question. I tend to view the components you have mentioned as being of secondary importance and are easily replaced should the need arise. Am I wrong in thinking that items such as the choice of motherboard,system BIOS, type of RAM, etc. are more important than the brand of hard disk or sound card?

Jon

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Branwen23
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 12:15 AM

yes, the motherboard, etc, are important, and one of the main things that is important about them, the motherboard in particular, is their upgradeability... What I mean is this:

Most (if not all) PC manufacturers who make "pre-manufactured" systems (systems that are pre-boxed, sitting on a shelf in a retail store) use integrated motherboards, boards that have the video card, sound card, sometmes even the modem and RAM, built right into the board. This means that you could never pull out your video card and put in a new one, or sound card, etc. So you're buying a PC that you can't upgrade, and will have to replace in two years or less if you want to stay even remotely current. That's the first point. The second is that while your motherboard, processor and RAM are important, you could have the greatest board and processor in the world and it does nothing for you if the rest of your components are cheap knockoff product. Depending on what you want to do with the system, this may not be a big deal to you, but if you want to do anything with good sound, graphics, etc, you want good sound and graphics cards that can be easily upgraded to adapt to changing technology and your changing needs. The hard drive quality is also very important. System drives (hard drive, 3.5 floppy, cdrom, etc) all have moving parts, and so are more likely to have probles later. Some of the moving parts can become misaligned and damage the drive, especially if you started out with an "off-brand" or low quality drive. This can result not only in loss of data, but in expensive repairs (which is another good reason to have a good warranty).
So, while the motherboard and RAM, etc. are certainly important, getting a good board and processor and then skimping on the rest of your system does you more harm than good in the long run.

-Branwen-

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 05:27 AM

Thanks for the info Branwen. I hadn't realised that the situation with intergrated components was so bad with the "pre manufactured" systems and it is a good reason to avoid them. My P133 had an integrated sound card but that was just an irritation as I did fit a second sound card.

As for me, I am quite happy with my current mixture of bits and pieces which I change as and when the need arises. Except for one modem failure has always been to upgrade - I seem to have been quite lucky, since 1984, apart from that, I had one TV card failure (I didn't replace the card) and I once bought some bad memory but the shop exchanged that for some RAM that did work.

My last upgrade was a big one which involved new motherboard, memory, etc but keeping the old components which were useful to me (I put an AGP graphics card in but that was about it). It ended up costing me £200 to upgrade to what is a reasonable K6-2 500 system - not bad considering the 128Mb of RAM cost £120.

Jon

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 10:39 AM

You've identified the main components to be fussy about Jon, but I think it's worth shopping around for a hard disk too, these days. Capacity for money, and speed can vary widely.

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 11:46 AM

Branwen, I am sure you are very knowledgeable, and I considered a Gateway seriously. But in the end I went with Dell. You are wrong about the soundcard. Mine has a "Soundblaster Live! Value Digital with MusicMatch Jukebox Enhanced Version". I would agree that Gateway sells an excellent product and they ran a close second with me. But your point about the cost is what swayed me. For the same quality and better support, the better cost to design what I wanted was Dell. Now admittedly this is a high end machine that is designed for sound reproduction, but the same thing at Gateway was more expensive. Price on this machine was secondary to getting what I wanted, but if all other things in your mind are equal you get a slight break from Dell. And in my opinion, the after sale service is better from Dell.

Jed, I am thrilled with the hardware, software and customer support on my Dell. I just purchased it and they have been wonderful in assisting me to get my data transferred, software loaded, etc. The quality of the equipment is well known and the reputation is deserved. The tech support is beyond reproach. I am very pleased with it. I would give Dell the highest possible recommendation.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 11:51 AM

Well Branwen, that's a nice testimonial and some good info too. What has really impressed me with Gateway is there accessibility. My kids have inadvertently whumped up things and a phone call and a walk through was what got me back in business. The people on the phone have always been knowledgable, polite, and had a sense of humor in dealing with the problems. I just think they are a top-notch company.

And who can resist the "Cow Boxes?"

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 12:12 PM

Aw Mick....YOU RESISTED THOSE COW BOXES?????

Go gcreime neach neamhshaolta do bhall fearga.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 12:19 PM

Spaw, why don't you call them and ask them which hole to stick the mic in? On the computer. You know - so you can participate in HearMe? (Hint: it's the purple one on the bottom. Of the computer. Purple plug/purple hole.)

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 12:24 PM

Because I've got some damn program loaded or partially unloaded or something which kills the mic in some programs. It works on some, but not others. Middle Mike was a big games freak and kept loading demo trash and somewhere along the line, either he or I screwed the pooch. It may have been something in that damn other voice thing...what was it called? Anyway, its a program problem and not a mic problem.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 01:10 PM

Spaw, see me in the PM's. I'll bet the Gateway folks would still help with this one!

Subject: RE: Non-music help: Buyin' a PC on-line???
From: mg
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 02:56 PM

if it is for your kids at college, they should go to their college bookstore and find out what is sold there...probably a substantial discount, there should be service for breakdowns right at the college (there was for me at Clark College anyway..) and othere students will have the same setup...and there is no packing it up and moving it....there also could be a rebate at the end of the year. in some bookstores..U.W. for one has that..