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Rick Fielding is not folk
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Subject: Rick Fielding is not folk From: GUEST,Larry, my brother Darryl & my other brother Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:50 PM While surfing around the Mudcat Cafe, I saw a post where Rick Fielding refers to himself as a folk musician and another where he declares that John Gorka is not folk. I'm sorry, but if Gorka is not folk, then neither is Fielding. Neither play traditional music that they learned through the oral tradition. Both write their own songs and sing some traditional folk songs. I repeat, if Gorka is not folk, then neither is Fielding. On the other hand, if Fielding is folk, then so is Gorka.
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Jim Krause Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:58 PM Why labels? And does it really matter? |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: little john cameron Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:01 PM KILL THIS THREED .LJC |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: DougR Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:13 PM Guest Larry, et. al. Don't know the reason for your posting, and I know nothing at all about John Gorka, but Rick Fielding sure fits my description of a folk singer, even if he doesn't yours. I guess folks have many different definitions of what is and what is not folk. If I rose to the bait, so be it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:29 PM I suppose it's a horrible thing, but Rick tends to believe that he has to make a living, so he often plays what his audiences want to hear. He has confessed to having played some pretty bad stuff in clubs full of drunks who might have beat him up if he dared to sing a Child Ballad. His recordings are mixed - I have to admit that on some cuts he sounds like a guy trying to sound like Gordon Lighfoot imitating Stan Rogers imitating Ian Tyson imitating Sylvia Tyson, but what Canadian folksinger doesn't do that on occasion? It's a horrible trait, to be a Lightfoot/Rogers/Tyson/Tyson wannabe, but they all seem to have it. Even Anne Murray sounds like Lightfoot at times. But when Rick gets to relax and be with friends, the guy is amazing. He can pick with the best of 'em, and he knows all sorts of stuff about all sorts of songs. So, can you blame him for wanting to make a living at times? Maybe he has prostituted his folkie ideals on occasion, but maybe that's better than being penniless. I had to work for a living myself once - it was awful. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: little john cameron Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:32 PM OH MY SUCKED IN AGAIN. LJC |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:35 PM Yeah, LJC, but I think we can twist this thread away from the flamer. Just pretend it wasn't a flame attempt, and ignore it. Besides, I've been working on that Lightfoot/Rogers/Tyson/Tyson crack for a long time. I'm sure -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: little john cameron Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:43 PM OK JOE But ye have tae get up early tae beat Ricky Baby. LJC |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Peter T. Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:48 PM A man with a bad stammer goes to a circus, and unfortunately sits in the front row, and a clown comes up to him and cuts off his tie, and the man stands up and stammers, and the clown and all the people laugh, and the man goes away, and vows that he will think up a witty comeback. He takes speech lessons, and enunciation classes, and the next year he goes back to the circus ring, and the clown spots him, and throws a pie in his face, and the man stands up and stammers, and nothing comes out, and everyone laughs, and the man goes away and vows that he will come up with a witty comeback, and he takes meditation, and studies with great humourists, and finally he is ready. He goes into the circus ring, and the clown comes up with a seltzer bottle, and is just about to spray him, when the man stands up, and with a sardonic smile on his face looks at the clown and says: "FUCK OFF CLOWN!!!!!!" yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:51 PM Uh, well....gee, Peter, I didn't say you were trying to sound like Lightfoot... But yes, Rick does sound like Lightfoot on some cuts, and he sounds better when he sounds like himself. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:53 PM I was going to post something, but PT my friend, you have not only cracked me up but have indeed said it all!!! When I quit laughing I may return, but I don't think its too necessary.......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: RWilhelm Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:56 PM Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: p.j. Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:05 PM Why I oughta.... Don't you get it, GUEST? By flaming one of our friends instead of making a general comment about folk music styles, you have negated any hope of having your point of view taken seriously here? IT NO LONGER MATTERS what you were trying to say, we are now obliged to gnaw off your ankles. Roll down your socks, please. No, I'm serious. Fine. I'll bite through your trousers.... Okay, so if Dave were here he would invoke his paternal side and convince me not to post (And let me say, it's a FINE day when a guy in fishnets and half a gorilla suit becomes the voice of reason in a household...) But he's off pulling fat ladies out of trees today, and I'm free to overreact unrestrained to mindless drivel such as this. He's succeeded in convincing me to take the high road many times in the past, but I'm sitting here thinking...If someone just took a pot-shot at me in a thread, would my friends have kept quiet? Would Mick have been his better self, or Catspaw showed restraint as befits his status? Would Katscratching or WylieWoman or Beat'emwithaBanjoBonnie not have gotten up on their hind legs and formed a posse? So why should I show restraint and let this insult pass? No matter what kind of musician Rick is, we'd have defended him because you attacked him, and because we love him. As it is, you didn't choose to resurrect a post and comment about your difference of opinion with the definition of a genre, you started a new thread specifically to insult someone who is respected and cared about around here. And because of that-- AND THIS IS THE POINT-- because you approached the subject the way you did, a point of discussion that could have been interesting has become meaningless. Let's talk about oral tradition. Let's debate about folk music and it's various incarnations. Let's discuss diverse opinions and perspectives-- but please, handle it in a way that leaves out personal references to Mothers, Sisters, and Friends. Guilty of crossing the street to pee on a flamer, pj p.s. Peter T., you are the Wind Beneath My Wings. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: little john cameron Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:20 PM Weel said guys.Mibbe this is a guid way tae deal wi this rubbish. LJC |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: sophocleese Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:29 PM Umm, where is the attack? I see nothing in the original post that suggested Rick was a lousy musician or a bad person, it simply and succintly suggested that he didn't, according to the poster, fit a particular label. The vehemence with which this point has been rejected perhaps shows why the poster resorted to anonymity when making it. I have heard Rick Fielding but I have not heard John Gorka so I don't know if comparing them is reasonable or not, perhaps those who have heard both and are qualified to judge can enlighten the rest of us. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: GUEST,Afraid of the fallout Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:40 PM Rick Fielding sounds like a cheap imitation of John Gorka, and, as Joe Offer says, uncannily Lightfootish at times. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: sophocleese Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:48 PM Well I tried to be reasonable but I'll leave the field at this point. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:54 PM Of course, the one person I've heard criticize Rick Fielding most severely is Rick Fielding. He spends a lot of time thinking about what he does. He makes mistakes, but don't we all? What matters is that he's a good guy and a good musician and he has a wealth of knowledge. It's nice to have him around, even if he does sound like Lightfoot on occasion. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: little john cameron Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:03 PM Beats me why anyone would resort tae anonymity LJC |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: GUEST,Afraid of the fallout Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:15 PM I wasn't trying to be un reasonable, sophocleese. I am not 'Darryl', but I know what the 'cost' is of criticizing Rick Fielding on this forum. It brings us back to the old question of cliques, etc., and whether people 'would stop talking to me' if I were to be so brave as to put my name to a criticism of him. For a blues and folk forum, I seem to be overly concerned with the opinions of the chatters, than I am with the musicians'. I do not dislike Rick, nor am I flaming him. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: JedMarum Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:27 PM I don't see the Gordon Lightfoot comparison. Rick and Gordon may fit within the same genre (if so, I suspect they're at either end of the spectrum) - but I don't believe there's much more then that. Our flamer is obviously attempting a personal attack, with words aimed to cut, insult, hurt. There is no legitmate intellecual discussion beneath the ugly words. I think we have a great candidate for Bert and Max's "Rat Bastard of the Week" award! |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Bill D Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:28 PM it is probably best that I am not good enough to TRY to make a career singing & playing, for I'd try to do REAL folk/trad and starve to death....Rick at least KNOWS folk and plays it when he can...and he makes a lot of that 'other stuff' sound pretty good.... |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Bert Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:28 PM Beats me why anyone would resort tae anonymity, says LJC Of course not LJC, you're Scottish. Now Scots may be all sorts of funny things but one thing they are not is 'Chicken Shit'. Of course you don't understand it. And MK, why don't you just sod off? Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:32 PM I am right there with you, pj! The title alone is inflammatory; especially when Rick has been such an important teacher, friend, host, etc. to so many Mudcatters as well as been a well-recognised professional for many years in the folk world. Sophocleese, have you ever stopped to think that if someone had the guts to sign their real name, the reaction might not be so vehement? It's been done around here and people have been able to mostly keep a lid on it and be respectful of each other. If one is going to state something so challenging and personally attacking as the title of this thread, then they damn well should have the chutzpah to sign their known Mudcat name! katscratching (thanks pj, I like that!)
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Jeri Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:40 PM May be MK, may be someone else. Someone with an easily lost temper who's involved in the Gorka thread. He got pissed off at people not agreeing with him and ran out of logical argument. Mad at those who disagree, he thinks this is a way to "get back at them." LOL - don't care what Rick plays or what he or anyone else calls it - he's GOOD! This isn't an insult - it's a silly tantrum. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: GUEST,Lyle Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:54 PM Larry, there is a fundamental flaw in what you have posted. The assumption behind your original statement implies that by listening to or naming a single singer, you can DEFINE folk music. Over the years, the question, "What is folk music?" has come up several times, and has not EVER been close to being answered. Each of us who like "folk-type" music have our own ideas of what it should be. Therefore, Rick (more than most of us) should certainly be allowed to define "folk music" in his own way, as should John Gorka. And if their definitions are not the same, it does not in any way change the broad CONCEPT of folk music. You said, "Neither play traditional music that they learned through the oral tradition. Both write their own songs and sing some traditional folk songs." Are you also saying, then, that that is the defining characteristic fo folk music? Ask 100 people at the next folk festival you attend if they agree - you will be lucky if 10 do. Lyle |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Big Mick Date: 16 Aug 00 - 09:55 PM Naw, GAOTF is a she, IMHO. And when she makes a comment about Rick sounding like a cheap imitation of anyone.......well, all I can say is that it demonstrates an untrained ear, and very little in the way of smarts. And then to come back and say that s/he isn't trying to be unreasonable....well, it sounds like unresolved issues to me. All of us, in developing our styles are influenced by those we admire. But what this really boils down to is the same stupid old argument about what constitutes "folk" music. In my estimation, there are a number of Rick's songs that will be passed on in the folk tradition. My personal favorite, and I will be passing it on, is "Voices of Struggle". Oh, and may I second the motion on the floor by PT and say "FUCK OFF CLOWN". Peter, I had a mouthful of ice when I read that and now must wait for it to melt in my sinus cavities. Thanks, buddy!!!! Mick |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Dave Swan Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:17 PM p.j.'s points are well taken. Who made the the cretin who began this thread the arbiter of who/what is folk or is not? Having entirely missed the point, said poster goes on to prove that s/he knows diddly-squat about Fielding, what he knows, how he learned it, or how he passes it on. As the anonymous guest has shown, all it takes is a key board, (opposable thumbs optional) and you can prove your mean spiritedness and ignorance to the world. |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:31 PM Now ain't this really just some silly ass shit? Rick is more than capable of defending himself if that's needed but frankly it isn't. Rick meets all the criterion for folkie in anybody's book and very few around here are as solidly rooted in traditional folk as Rick. Ask Sandy Paton.....or Art Thieme.....or even Bill D. Things Rick does are either real folk or newer songs in folk style which after time will enter the idiom. The original poster knows nothing about Rick or the oral/aural folk process......and if s/he does, then this can only be considered a spiteful attack leading me to believe that they DO have a knowledge and ability in some areas. Like I know they can suck the chrome off a bumper hitch for instance. This isn't a clique and the notion could have been phrased in ways allowing discussion....but no, this is simply the work of an unmitigated little pissant with all the courage of a small turd excreted by a mole. Even more gutless is the anonymous supporter. I suggest you both have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. I was going to post this above, but I was laughing at the PT posting so damn hard I just couldn't type. Love ya' Peter!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: DougR Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:31 PM Peter T: good joke, but not a knee slapper, I think. My fellow Mudcatters are bowled over by it, so maybe I'm missing something. Anyway, Rick Fielding is a folk singer/songwriter, performing artist, and if the poster doubts it, he should buy his CDs. DougR |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:36 PM What makes it funny Doug is in knowing Peter. Think about all his wonderful, thoughtful, intellectual postings and what a brilliant and also opinionated man he is. The joke is delivered in true PT style, but the punch line and the attitude behind it make it much funnier than if I had done it. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:41 PM Peter, does this mean you will be back to posting your TFTD threads tomorrow? Please say YES!! |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: DougR Date: 16 Aug 00 - 10:52 PM Aw Spaw, you're just being modest. DougR |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Jeri Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:08 PM I'm with Sophocleese on this one. I don't think this is about Rick at all, but the poster rightly suspected everyone he is pissed of at would respond. I could have it wrong, and it's just someone who wants to continue the "what is folk" debate in another thread. But then there's that attention-getting thread title and anonymity, so I'm still suspicious. There's no insult to Rick at all in the first post, just a successful attempt to jerk peoples' chains. Rick does traditional songs, and does new songs. I knew Gorka did his own material (heard him once a few years ago) but I didn't know he did traditional songs. I don't think Rick sounds much like Gorka. He sounds a bit like Lightfoot, but that might just be the fact that Canadians have those funny accents.(Joke) The "cheap imitation" comment sounded to me like "my favorite singer can beat up your favorite singer." Juvenile and silly. I'm having a hard time finding much to get upset about in the initial post. If one must "play traditional music that they learned through the oral tradition" to be folk, then neither Fielding nor Gorka (or most other musicians I can think of) are folk. However Rick does sing/play folk music. Like I said, I don't know about Gorka. It all depends on whether we're talking about performers or the actual music they do. It's funny, but has anyone noticed that when someone talks about pop music, the emphasis is on the musicians,and when people talk about folk music, the emphasis is on the music "Band X rules! I really like their song 'Worship Me Baby, I'm a Star'" instead of "I really love "Tam Lin." There's a great version on Elvira Blatnick's new CD."
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: DougR Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:33 PM Interesting thread. Many have commented about how much Rick sounds like Lightfoot. I don't hear it. I think Rick's voice, and I'm basing this entirely on the CDs, is very distinctive. I posted an opinion several months ago that the successful recording artist was one that had a voice that "said" to the listner, that's so and so. I think Rick has that quality. Example: if you heard Burl Ives, Tex Ritter, Eddy Arnold, Marty Robbins, Bob Dylan, Bing Crosby, Perry Como (yes I'm mixing pop, country and folk together) John Prine, Dougie McClean on the radio, did you have to ask someone who was singing on the radio? I doubt it. I think Rick has the same quality in his voice. Just my opinion, of course. DougR |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Rick Fielding Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:38 PM Good Grief, do you mean I missed all this just cause I wanted to watch Joe(y) Lieberman on the boob tube? I'm pretty cynical about politicians but I kinda like this guy. Just for the record, I always thought I was more of an Alanis Morrisette wannabe! Rick |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:54 PM I don't think you got the legs for it Rick....and you have to work on the hair angle too. Now voice wise....well let's see, I got a big hammer and Mick can hold you down.................... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Bugsy Date: 16 Aug 00 - 11:56 PM Aw Shit! That's it! I'll never communicate with Rick Fielding again! Get a life for Christ's sake! Cheers Bugsy |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Crowhugger Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:03 AM refresh! |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Sailor Dan Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:07 AM Hell I thought this Fielding bloke was Folk all the way and the originator is an uneducated joke. And spaw I am glad to see that in your second paragraph two posts above this one, you wax so eloquent. Damn I wish I was half that good Sailor DAn |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: ddw Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:29 AM For what it's worth, I can't see the fielding-lightfoot connection either. GL, who has far as I can ascertain never wrote but two tunes and then did every set of words he wrote to one or the other, puts me to sleep faster than a military training film. Rick, on the other hand, turned in one of the most enjoyable concerts I've heard in years while he was here in the spring and I've listened to his two CDs a bunch of times. Great musician, really nice guy. Is he folk? I think so, but in the long run, who really cares? david |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: DougR Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:32 AM ddw: you found the military training films boring? Did you see the ones about ...aw, you know! DougR |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: WyoWoman Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:36 AM Rick, I totally get that connection. I rented "Dogma" last night and when Alanis Morrisette walked out at the end in her cameo as, well, The Lord God Almighty, King of King, Lord of Lord, Hippie Chick of Hippie Chicks, I thought to myself, OMIGOD, IT'S FIELDING. And she never even sang. So. fooled me. Luv ya, Bud. WylieWoman
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:43 AM Well geeziz Pansy, she musta' been wearin' a hat or something. And like you say, she didn't sing. But I'm tellin' ya' that Lane, Swan, and I can FIX that problem! Big Mick on the shoulders, El Swanno on the legs, and I got a nice 10 pound sledge that'll have that boy going up an octave or two in no time. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: ddw Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:45 AM Naw, DougR — I didn't see that one. Soon as I saw the title I could tell I already knew the story line..... |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: WyoWoman Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:50 AM 'Spaw, you're envisioning this just a leetle too clearly. I think you've been hanging out over there in the "sopranos" thread too much. wowow |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: hesperis Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:00 AM No, no no, Spaw! You's be needin' ter do tat afore the voice breeks at pooburty now, ye hear me lad? See tat threed on ginder and sopranins ar whateever 'twas. Ohhh, LOL! I'm bad! (Especially at fake accents!) |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:26 AM He ain't? You mean he's a freakin' android? Or a highly trained (funky) gibbon? Who is this Gordon Lightfoot any way? I don't know from Gorka either. Hell, I like Rick's CDs, we seem to like the same guitarists (though he knows many more than I do) never had the pleasure of hearing him live. I'm an ignorant old git any way and don't care about labels, if I like something. Why do we label music- like pop's "house" "garage" "handbag". I play sorta "briefcase potting shed" on my kazoo, is that folk? (O.K., Nurse, I'm coming).Back to real life. RtS |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: Lepus Rex Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:30 AM I bet Larry/Daryl is a vengeful John Gorka! ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: Rick Fielding is not folk From: GUEST,Sam Pirt Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:37 AM All I have to say is that the definition of folk music is "Music made by the people, for the people" Rick writes his songs within the folk tardition for the people, as well as singing folk songs. What else does he need to do to become a 'folk singer' I rest my case. Sam |
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