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Ballads with Plot Twists?
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Subject: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Mrrzy Date: 24 Aug 00 - 03:10 PM I have been revisiting The Kingston Trio, one of my sisters sent me a tape of one of their very earliest albums, I think, with a note saying Here it is finally (but I dont' remember asking her about it...). Anyway, there is one song on it that starts out like Little Sadie, turns into something like a ghost story - but ends up being neither. He was raised down South around Jacksonville, nice young man, not the kind to kill But a jealous fight and a flashing blade Sent him on a run through the everglades. Sounds like your basic murder ballad. There's a verse about how the posse gives up looking for him since he's just gonna die there anyway (where a man can hide and never be found, and have no fear of the baying hound, But he better keep a-running and don't stand still, if the skeeters don't get him then the gators will), a verse about how his girlfriend marries someone else and everybody thinks he's dead but "the natives" still sometimes see him running through the Everglades (running like a dog through the Everglades)... So now it sounds like your basic ghost ballad. But then the last verse is about how there are no news media in the Everglades "so he'll never know / That his running and a-hiding didn't make no sense / For the jury had ruled it was self-defense" - so it's got this ironic twist at the end! I'll post the lyrics as soon as I have them all memorized, another couple of commutes ought to do it. Anyway, it has the most interesting plot of any ballad I'd heard in years, and was just a) wanting to tell y'all about it in case you didn't know about it, and b) wondering if there were other ballads with "surprise" endings I might have missed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: SINSULL Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM That was a big hit in the 60s when folk music ruled. How about "John Reilly"? Although you would have to be braindead not to know it was him. There's another about a man sentenced to be hung for murder. "Nobody knows; nobody sees; nobody knows but me". His only alibi is his best friends wife.They were together when the murder took place. |
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Subject: ADD: Everglades From: Naemanson Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:17 PM EVERGLADES He was born and raised around Jacksonville, A nice young man not the kind to kill, Bur a jealous fight and a flashing blade, Sent him on the run to the Everglades. Chorus: Where a man can hide and never be found, And have no fear of the baying hound, But he better keep a-running and don't stand still, If the skeeters don't get him then the gators will, Well the posse went in and they came back out, They said he'd die and there ain't no doubt, It's an eye for an eye now the debt's been paid, A man can't live in the Everglades. His family they gave him up for dead, His girlfriend she finaly wed, But now and then the natives say, They see him running through the Everglades, He never heard the news on the radio, He was deep in the glades so he'll never know, All his running and his hiding don't make no sense, The jury had ruled it was self defense. That's the way I remember it. It may have suffered a little folk processing over the years. I haven't sung it in years but when I saw this thread it all came back to me. If you figure out the chords please post them. I couldn't play guitar the last time I sang it. Note: My Kingston Trio Deluxe Souvenir Vocal Album songbook says "Everglades" was written by Harlan Howard, copyright 1960 by Highridge Music. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: SINSULL Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:36 PM Now the years went by and his girl was wed His family gave him up for dead But now and then the natives would say They'd seen him a'running through the Everglades And between verses: Running like a dog through the Everglades Skippin' like a frog through the slimy bog Running through the leaves from the ever????(greens,maybe) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Brendy Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:45 PM The Ballad of William Bloat I'm sure I'll come up with a few more. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Bill D Date: 24 Aug 00 - 07:11 PM perhaps Half-Hitch (at least for the protagonist) also..The Cowboy Fireman |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: campfire Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:33 AM SINSULL, the song you're thinking of is "Long Black Veil". campfire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:38 AM "The two sisters" in which the harp or fiddle made from the dead sister's bones incriminates the sister who murdered her. There's also a ballad plot in which a young woman, about to be murdered by a renegade knight, pushes him into the river where he drowns. Great stuff. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE OUTLANDISH KNIGHT From: hesperis Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:44 AM leenia - for you. The Outlandish Knight An outlandish knight came out of the North To woo a maiden fair He promised to take her to the North lands Her father's only heir "Come, fetch me some of your father's gold And some of your mother's fee And two of the best nags out of the stable Where they stand thirty and three" She fetched him some of her father's gold And some of her mother's fee And two of the best nags out of the stable Where they stand thirty and three She mounted her on her milk-white steed He on the dapple grey They rode till they came unto the sea-side Three hours before it was day "Light off, light off thy milk-white steed And deliver it unto me Six pretty maids have I drowned here And thou the seventh shall be Pull off, pull off thy silken gown And deliver it unto me Methinks it looks to rich and too gay To rot in the salt sea Pull off, pull off thy silken stays And deliver them unto me Methinks they are to fine and gay To rot in the salt sea Pull off, pull off thy Holland smock And deliver it unto me Methinks it looks to rich and gay To rot in the salt sea" "If I must pull off my Holland smock Pray turn thy back unto me For it is not fitting that such a ruffian A woman unclad should see" He turned his back towards her And viewed the leaves so green She caught him round the middle so small And tumbled him into the stream He dropped high, and he dropped low Until he came to the tide --- "Catch hold of my hand, my pretty maiden And I will make you my bride" "Lie there, lie there, you false-hearted man Lie there instead of me Six pretty maidens have you drowned here And the seventh has drowned thee" She mounted on her milk-white steed And led the dapple grey She rode till she came to her father's hall Three hours before it was day Is there a melody for this? Where can I learn it? One other thing, although this is one of my favorite childhood poems, it is not the one that named my cat. ~*sirepseh*~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Naemanson Date: 25 Aug 00 - 06:40 AM John Roberts and Tony Barrand have Outlandish Knight on one of their albums. I imagine someone else will have posted a tune by the time I find it but it's a start. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: AndyG Date: 25 Aug 00 - 08:28 AM There's always
for a reversal of the normal "pretty little doxy" sort of ballad.
AndyG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: AndyG Date: 25 Aug 00 - 08:29 AM That's
of course !
AndyG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Mrrzy Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:43 AM William Bloat, of course! One of my faves. How about Wet Day in London? Are there any ballads that have the punch line of the old saw where the liar is telling about his fantastic adventures and gets into an unsolvable dilemna, and when the audience asks What happens? The answer is I Died? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: SINSULL Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:46 AM "Buckskin Bag Of Gold" Thanks, Campfire. It was driving me crazy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Wolfgang Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:50 AM hesperis, a midi for Outlandish Knight is here Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:52 AM Do you know Woody's "East Texas Red?" Its a sorta' plot twist, but more, its the best "Don't get mad, get even" song I know. Red is a railroad brakeman/bull who rousts two hobos and a year later they come back to have another word with him.....so to speak. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Catrin Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:57 AM There's one Peggy Seeger sings, I can't remember what it's called but, similar to outlandish knight, its about the rogue being outwitted by the young maiden. She says "there is something i crave sits between your two legs" He gets off his horse and lies down on the grass. She gets on his horse and gallops away. maidenhead intact.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: LR Mole Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:12 AM "Everglades" is a Hoyt Axton, I think, who was also responsible for "Joy to the World"(the "Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog" one), and whose mother was co-author of "Heartbreak Hotel". SINSULL, I always thought the last line was "running through the trees from the Everleys" and referred to some rock/folk vendetta, but I was a good deal younger then and prone to make up stories. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: hesperis Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM Thanks, Naemanson, Wolfgang It's interesting, I was just thinking that The Outlandish Knight was a bit similar to the story of Bluebeard, and there was a mention on that site. Thank you again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Mark Clark Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:44 PM Bringing Mary Home is one of these. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Mrrzy Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM I hear Running through the trees from the Everleys too. I figured they were the Florida Pinkertons, or something. Wish I'd known this song driving down to meet Mbo, it mentions Jacksonville even if it IS the wrong one... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Charlie2 Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:30 PM In my opinion, the most complex ballad I've ever heard is Dylan's Black Diamond Bay. This tune is epic with heros, villians, subplots and thieves. All of this happens through the eyes of the narrator who watches the whole plot implode on his little TV while drinking beer in front of ol' Cronkite. This and Lillie, Rosemary and the JAck of Hearts have got to be the two most complex ballads ever written. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Mrrzy Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:45 PM I was thinking about Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts too, Charlie2. My favorite visual from that - The only person on the scene missing was the Jack of Hearts. I love the idea that instead of not being on the scene, he was on the scene, missing. I will have to look up Black Diamond Bay! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: SINSULL Date: 25 Aug 00 - 03:02 PM Mole and Mrrzy, I remember a DJ asking what the Everly Brothers were doing in the Everglades. I think you're right. Add to the list: "The Bad Girl Who Lives Down The Street" (or is it "Be Careful of Stones that You Throw"?)by Hank Williams. A gossipy neighbor fills everyone in on the dirt about a local girl. As they are talking, the woman's child runs in front of a car but is pushed out of the way by a woman now dead. The hero is of course the bad girl who lives down the street. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:05 PM For the Outlandish Knight, you might like to look at this thread: The Outlandish Knight Catrin: You're thinking of The Crafty Maid's Policy Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: jayohjo Date: 26 Aug 00 - 07:16 PM That Peggy Seeger one from Catrin is to be found here: SWEET JOAN (hope the blue clicky worked, fingers crossed...) jayohjo XX |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 26 Aug 00 - 09:08 PM Ah, yes, the Stephen Sedley version. Frank Purslow (The Wanton Seed, EFDS Publications, 1968) has this to say about it: "As Sweet Joan the song appears in Stephen Sedley's The Seeds Of Love (Essex Music Ltd., 1967). Sedley has, however, unaccountably confused the song with the one usually called Lovely Joan and the result is verses from The Crafty Maid's Policy broadside set to a Lovely Joan tune." Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 18 - 07:01 AM Used to sing it a s kid, and I thought it started off this way... He was born and raised around Jacksonville, A nice young man not the kind to kill, but a jealous man and a pretty maid, send him on the run to the everglades. Anyway, thanks for the post! |
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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: GUEST,LynnH Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:54 AM Willie o' Winsbury - everything changes when the king actually meets him: The king's called up his good swordsmen By thirty and by three Saying, "Bring me this Willie o' winsbury For hanged he must be". But when he came before the king He was dressed all in the red silk His hairwas like strands of gold His skin was white as milk "It is no wonder," says the king "That my daughter's love you did win For if I was a woman as I am a man My bed fellow you would have been!" "Now will you marry my daughter Janet By the truth of your right hand? If you marry my daughter Jane I'll make you the lord of all my lands" .....and they all lived happily ever after. |
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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Apr 18 - 04:54 AM Gil Morrice - where his suspected 'lover' turns out to be his mother and his jealous husband killer, his step-father Doesn't come any more twisty than that Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: Richard Mellish Date: 03 Apr 18 - 04:58 AM The plot of Young Johnstone (Child 88) has some twists and turns. It starts off with what should be a happy situation, with two chaps each having the other's sister for his girlfriend. Then it all goes wrong. It's a great ballad in its classic version and it's also got a modern update from Leslie Haworth, with guns instead of swords and the anti-hero pursued by the police instead of mounted knights. I've only heard this latter version the once, from Leslie Haworth's son, and I'd be delighted to have a recording, if anyone has one. |
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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists? From: GUEST,Shimmering Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:30 AM None really came to mind when I read this thread before ... but now one has. Yes there is a twist in this one. So I am back to post. It's a Swedish ballad, Per Tyrsson's Daughters in Vänge. |
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