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Ballads with Plot Twists?

Mrrzy 24 Aug 00 - 03:10 PM
SINSULL 24 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM
Naemanson 24 Aug 00 - 04:17 PM
SINSULL 24 Aug 00 - 04:36 PM
Brendy 24 Aug 00 - 06:45 PM
Bill D 24 Aug 00 - 07:11 PM
campfire 25 Aug 00 - 12:33 AM
GUEST,leeneia 25 Aug 00 - 12:38 AM
hesperis 25 Aug 00 - 02:44 AM
Naemanson 25 Aug 00 - 06:40 AM
AndyG 25 Aug 00 - 08:28 AM
AndyG 25 Aug 00 - 08:29 AM
Mrrzy 25 Aug 00 - 09:43 AM
SINSULL 25 Aug 00 - 09:46 AM
Wolfgang 25 Aug 00 - 09:50 AM
catspaw49 25 Aug 00 - 09:52 AM
Catrin 25 Aug 00 - 09:57 AM
LR Mole 25 Aug 00 - 10:12 AM
hesperis 25 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM
Mark Clark 25 Aug 00 - 01:44 PM
Mrrzy 25 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM
Charlie2 25 Aug 00 - 02:30 PM
Mrrzy 25 Aug 00 - 02:45 PM
SINSULL 25 Aug 00 - 03:02 PM
Malcolm Douglas 25 Aug 00 - 09:05 PM
jayohjo 26 Aug 00 - 07:16 PM
Malcolm Douglas 26 Aug 00 - 09:08 PM
GUEST 02 Apr 18 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,LynnH 03 Apr 18 - 03:54 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 18 - 04:54 AM
Richard Mellish 03 Apr 18 - 04:58 AM
GUEST,Shimmering 17 Apr 18 - 05:30 AM
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Subject: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 03:10 PM

I have been revisiting The Kingston Trio, one of my sisters sent me a tape of one of their very earliest albums, I think, with a note saying Here it is finally (but I dont' remember asking her about it...). Anyway, there is one song on it that starts out like Little Sadie, turns into something like a ghost story - but ends up being neither.

He was raised down South around Jacksonville, nice young man, not the kind to kill But a jealous fight and a flashing blade Sent him on a run through the everglades. Sounds like your basic murder ballad. There's a verse about how the posse gives up looking for him since he's just gonna die there anyway (where a man can hide and never be found, and have no fear of the baying hound, But he better keep a-running and don't stand still, if the skeeters don't get him then the gators will), a verse about how his girlfriend marries someone else and everybody thinks he's dead but "the natives" still sometimes see him running through the Everglades (running like a dog through the Everglades)... So now it sounds like your basic ghost ballad. But then the last verse is about how there are no news media in the Everglades "so he'll never know / That his running and a-hiding didn't make no sense / For the jury had ruled it was self-defense" - so it's got this ironic twist at the end! I'll post the lyrics as soon as I have them all memorized, another couple of commutes ought to do it. Anyway, it has the most interesting plot of any ballad I'd heard in years, and was just a) wanting to tell y'all about it in case you didn't know about it, and b) wondering if there were other ballads with "surprise" endings I might have missed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM

That was a big hit in the 60s when folk music ruled.
How about "John Reilly"? Although you would have to be braindead not to know it was him.
There's another about a man sentenced to be hung for murder. "Nobody knows; nobody sees; nobody knows but me". His only alibi is his best friends wife.They were together when the murder took place.


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Subject: ADD: Everglades
From: Naemanson
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:17 PM

EVERGLADES

He was born and raised around Jacksonville,
A nice young man not the kind to kill,
Bur a jealous fight and a flashing blade,
Sent him on the run to the Everglades.

Chorus:
Where a man can hide and never be found,
And have no fear of the baying hound,
But he better keep a-running and don't stand still,
If the skeeters don't get him then the gators will,

Well the posse went in and they came back out,
They said he'd die and there ain't no doubt,
It's an eye for an eye now the debt's been paid,
A man can't live in the Everglades.

His family they gave him up for dead,
His girlfriend she finaly wed,
But now and then the natives say,
They see him running through the Everglades,

He never heard the news on the radio,
He was deep in the glades so he'll never know,
All his running and his hiding don't make no sense,
The jury had ruled it was self defense.

That's the way I remember it. It may have suffered a little folk processing over the years. I haven't sung it in years but when I saw this thread it all came back to me. If you figure out the chords please post them. I couldn't play guitar the last time I sang it.
Note: My Kingston Trio Deluxe Souvenir Vocal Album songbook says "Everglades" was written by Harlan Howard, copyright 1960 by Highridge Music.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:36 PM

Now the years went by and his girl was wed
His family gave him up for dead
But now and then the natives would say
They'd seen him a'running through the Everglades

And between verses:
Running like a dog through the Everglades
Skippin' like a frog through the slimy bog
Running through the leaves from the ever????(greens,maybe)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Brendy
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:45 PM

The Ballad of William Bloat

Tippin' it up to Nancy

I'm sure I'll come up with a few more.

B.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 07:11 PM

perhaps Half-Hitch (at least for the protagonist)

also..The Cowboy Fireman


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: campfire
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:33 AM

SINSULL, the song you're thinking of is "Long Black Veil".

campfire


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:38 AM

"The two sisters" in which the harp or fiddle made from the dead sister's bones incriminates the sister who murdered her.

There's also a ballad plot in which a young woman, about to be murdered by a renegade knight, pushes him into the river where he drowns. Great stuff.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE OUTLANDISH KNIGHT
From: hesperis
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:44 AM

leenia - for you.



The Outlandish Knight

An outlandish knight came out of the North
To woo a maiden fair
He promised to take her to the North lands
Her father's only heir

"Come, fetch me some of your father's gold
And some of your mother's fee
And two of the best nags out of the stable
Where they stand thirty and three"

She fetched him some of her father's gold
And some of her mother's fee
And two of the best nags out of the stable
Where they stand thirty and three

She mounted her on her milk-white steed
He on the dapple grey
They rode till they came unto the sea-side
Three hours before it was day

"Light off, light off thy milk-white steed
And deliver it unto me
Six pretty maids have I drowned here
And thou the seventh shall be

Pull off, pull off thy silken gown
And deliver it unto me
Methinks it looks to rich and too gay
To rot in the salt sea

Pull off, pull off thy silken stays
And deliver them unto me
Methinks they are to fine and gay
To rot in the salt sea

Pull off, pull off thy Holland smock
And deliver it unto me
Methinks it looks to rich and gay
To rot in the salt sea"

"If I must pull off my Holland smock
Pray turn thy back unto me
For it is not fitting that such a ruffian
A woman unclad should see"

He turned his back towards her
And viewed the leaves so green
She caught him round the middle so small
And tumbled him into the stream

He dropped high, and he dropped low
Until he came to the tide ---
"Catch hold of my hand, my pretty maiden
And I will make you my bride"

"Lie there, lie there, you false-hearted man
Lie there instead of me
Six pretty maidens have you drowned here
And the seventh has drowned thee"

She mounted on her milk-white steed
And led the dapple grey
She rode till she came to her father's hall
Three hours before it was day



Is there a melody for this?
Where can I learn it?


One other thing, although this is one of my favorite childhood poems, it is not the one that named my cat.

~*sirepseh*~


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 06:40 AM

John Roberts and Tony Barrand have Outlandish Knight on one of their albums. I imagine someone else will have posted a tune by the time I find it but it's a start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: AndyG
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 08:28 AM

There's always

The Rigs of London Town

for a reversal of the normal "pretty little doxy" sort of ballad.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: AndyG
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 08:29 AM

That's

The Rigs of London Town

of course !

AndyG


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:43 AM

William Bloat, of course! One of my faves. How about Wet Day in London? Are there any ballads that have the punch line of the old saw where the liar is telling about his fantastic adventures and gets into an unsolvable dilemna, and when the audience asks What happens? The answer is I Died?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:46 AM

"Buckskin Bag Of Gold"

Thanks, Campfire. It was driving me crazy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:50 AM

hesperis,
a midi for Outlandish Knight is here

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:52 AM

Do you know Woody's "East Texas Red?" Its a sorta' plot twist, but more, its the best "Don't get mad, get even" song I know. Red is a railroad brakeman/bull who rousts two hobos and a year later they come back to have another word with him.....so to speak.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Catrin
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:57 AM

There's one Peggy Seeger sings, I can't remember what it's called but, similar to outlandish knight, its about the rogue being outwitted by the young maiden.

She says "there is something i crave sits between your two legs"

He gets off his horse and lies down on the grass.

She gets on his horse and gallops away.

maidenhead intact....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: LR Mole
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:12 AM

"Everglades" is a Hoyt Axton, I think, who was also responsible for "Joy to the World"(the "Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog" one), and whose mother was co-author of "Heartbreak Hotel". SINSULL, I always thought the last line was "running through the trees from the Everleys" and referred to some rock/folk vendetta, but I was a good deal younger then and prone to make up stories.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: hesperis
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM

Thanks, Naemanson, Wolfgang

It's interesting, I was just thinking that The Outlandish Knight was a bit similar to the story of Bluebeard, and there was a mention on that site. Thank you again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:44 PM

Bringing Mary Home is one of these.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM

I hear Running through the trees from the Everleys too. I figured they were the Florida Pinkertons, or something. Wish I'd known this song driving down to meet Mbo, it mentions Jacksonville even if it IS the wrong one...


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Charlie2
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:30 PM

In my opinion, the most complex ballad I've ever heard is Dylan's Black Diamond Bay. This tune is epic with heros, villians, subplots and thieves. All of this happens through the eyes of the narrator who watches the whole plot implode on his little TV while drinking beer in front of ol' Cronkite. This and Lillie, Rosemary and the JAck of Hearts have got to be the two most complex ballads ever written.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:45 PM

I was thinking about Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts too, Charlie2. My favorite visual from that - The only person on the scene missing was the Jack of Hearts. I love the idea that instead of not being on the scene, he was on the scene, missing. I will have to look up Black Diamond Bay!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 03:02 PM

Mole and Mrrzy,
I remember a DJ asking what the Everly Brothers were doing in the Everglades. I think you're right.

Add to the list:
"The Bad Girl Who Lives Down The Street" (or is it "Be Careful of Stones that You Throw"?)by Hank Williams.
A gossipy neighbor fills everyone in on the dirt about a local girl. As they are talking, the woman's child runs in front of a car but is pushed out of the way by a woman now dead. The hero is of course the bad girl who lives down the street.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:05 PM

For the Outlandish Knight, you might like to look at this thread: The Outlandish Knight

Catrin: You're thinking of The Crafty Maid's Policy

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: jayohjo
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 07:16 PM

That Peggy Seeger one from Catrin is to be found here: SWEET JOAN

(hope the blue clicky worked, fingers crossed...)

jayohjo XX


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Subject: RE: BS: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 09:08 PM

Ah, yes, the Stephen Sedley version.  Frank Purslow (The Wanton Seed, EFDS Publications, 1968) has this to say about it:

"As Sweet Joan the song appears in Stephen Sedley's The Seeds Of Love (Essex Music Ltd., 1967).  Sedley has, however, unaccountably confused the song with the one usually called Lovely Joan and the result is verses from The Crafty Maid's Policy broadside set to a Lovely Joan tune."

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 07:01 AM

Used to sing it a s kid, and I thought it started off this way...

He was born and raised around Jacksonville,
A nice young man not the kind to kill,
but a jealous man and a pretty maid,
send him on the run to the everglades.

Anyway, thanks for the post!


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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:54 AM

Willie o' Winsbury - everything changes when the king actually meets him:

The king's called up his good swordsmen
By thirty and by three
Saying, "Bring me this Willie o' winsbury
For hanged he must be".

But when he came before the king
He was dressed all in the red silk
His hairwas like strands of gold
His skin was white as milk

"It is no wonder," says the king
"That my daughter's love you did win
For if I was a woman as I am a man
My bed fellow you would have been!"

"Now will you marry my daughter Janet
By the truth of your right hand?
If you marry my daughter Jane
I'll make you the lord of all my lands"

.....and they all lived happily ever after.


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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 04:54 AM

Gil Morrice - where his suspected 'lover' turns out to be his mother and his jealous husband killer, his step-father
Doesn't come any more twisty than that
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 04:58 AM

The plot of Young Johnstone (Child 88) has some twists and turns. It starts off with what should be a happy situation, with two chaps each having the other's sister for his girlfriend. Then it all goes wrong. It's a great ballad in its classic version and it's also got a modern update from Leslie Haworth, with guns instead of swords and the anti-hero pursued by the police instead of mounted knights. I've only heard this latter version the once, from Leslie Haworth's son, and I'd be delighted to have a recording, if anyone has one.


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Subject: RE: Ballads with Plot Twists?
From: GUEST,Shimmering
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:30 AM

None really came to mind when I read this thread before ... but now one has. Yes there is a twist in this one. So I am back to post.

It's a Swedish ballad, Per Tyrsson's Daughters in Vänge.


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