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Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)

DigiTrad:
CLYDE'S WATER (3)
CLYDE'S WATER 2
THE MOTHER'S MALISON (Clyde's Water)


Related threads:
Chord Req: Drowned Lovers (26)
Lyr Req: Clyde Waters (8)


Snori 01 Sep 00 - 10:30 AM
Mbo 01 Sep 00 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,Hoot & Fidget 01 Sep 00 - 12:17 PM
Noreen 01 Sep 00 - 05:08 PM
Mbo 03 Sep 00 - 01:51 PM
Mbo 03 Sep 00 - 01:57 PM
Snori 04 Sep 00 - 07:02 AM
GUEST,Marlene McCall 20 Nov 08 - 02:40 AM
pavane 20 Nov 08 - 05:56 AM
cptsnapper 20 Nov 08 - 05:57 AM
Paul Burke 20 Nov 08 - 06:02 AM
Musket 20 Nov 08 - 07:32 AM
pavane 20 Nov 08 - 08:01 AM
Mick Walker 20 Nov 08 - 08:27 AM
pavane 20 Nov 08 - 08:59 AM
Jim Dixon 21 Nov 08 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,Noreen 21 Nov 08 - 02:00 PM
Jim Dixon 21 Nov 08 - 02:49 PM
JeffB 22 Nov 08 - 04:17 PM
pavane 25 Nov 08 - 09:54 AM
Jim Dixon 26 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM
Chris Seymour 20 Jan 09 - 11:06 PM
michaelr 21 Jan 09 - 12:02 AM
Tootler 21 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM
Malcolm Douglas 21 Jan 09 - 10:44 AM
Chris Seymour 21 Jan 09 - 06:33 PM
pavane 22 Jan 09 - 03:35 AM
Mick Walker 22 Jan 09 - 06:01 AM
michaelr 23 Jan 09 - 12:18 AM
Chris Seymour 24 Jan 09 - 08:15 PM
michaelr 24 Jan 09 - 08:46 PM
Tim Chesterton 15 Sep 10 - 11:54 PM
pavane 16 Sep 10 - 06:57 AM
Joe Offer 02 Feb 11 - 07:28 PM
Paul Davenport 03 Feb 11 - 02:24 PM
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Subject: Clyde Water - version of Kate Rusby
From: Snori
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 10:30 AM

Hallo guys,

I am looking for lyrics of song Clyde Water
in version of Kate Rusby
In MudCad archive I found older version
of this song - Miss N. Watson, Whitehall 1905,
but this is not what I need.
The version of Kate is a little
bit longer (22 verses) and more 'magician'
then the original version.
The first three verses go like this:

Willie sats on his stable door,
and combing his black stead,
He is thinking of his fair Margret,
His heart begins to bleed.

Bring corn to my horse dear mother-o
And bring me my man Jon,
for I will go to fair Margret's bower
Before the night goes on

If you go to fair Margret's bower
And if you are living me
In the deepest pot of the Clyde Water
Drawning you will be

etc.
Of course he went and he drowned.
Excuse my my bed English, I write what I have heard.
Best Regards
Snori

Search for "Rusby" threads


Search for "Clyde" threads


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Clyde Water - version of Kate Rusby
From: Mbo
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 12:10 PM

Snori, I can get the lyrics posted for you tonight! BTW Kate's version is called "The Drowned Lovers".

--Matt


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Clyde Water - version of Kate Rusby
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 12:17 PM

Snori,

Are you by any chance Icelandic? I'm thinking of the author of the Prose Edda, Snori Sturlesson & I was just curious.

BTW your English is just fine. No problems a native speaker can't work with. I'm interested in seeing those lyrics, myself.

Best!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Clyde Water - version of Kate Rusby
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 05:08 PM

See also this recent thread: Clyde Waters

Noreen


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE DROWNED LOVERS (from Kate Rusby)
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:51 PM

Here are the lyrics:

THE DROWNED LOVERS
performed by Kate Rusby

Willie sits in his stable door and he's combing his coal black steed.
He's doubting on fair Margaret's love and his heart begins to bleed.
"Fetch corn unto me horse, mother, and meat for my man John,
And all the way to fair Margaret's bower before the night comes on."

"Stay at home with me, dear Willie; O stay at home with me,
And the very best cock in all the roost for your own supper will be."
"Of all your cocks and all your roosts, I value not a pin,
And all the way to fair Margaret's bower before the night comes in."

"Well, if you go to fair Margaret's bower without the leave of me,
In the deepest part of the Clyde water drownéd you will be."
"Oh, the good steed I ride upon cost me thrice thirty pounds,
And I'll put my trust in his swift feet to take me safe and sound."

He's ridden over yon high, high hill and down yon dowy den,
And the rushing in the Clyde water would fear five-hundred men.
"O roaring Clyde, you roar so loud. Your streams are wondrous strong.
Make me a wrack as I come back but spare me as I'm going."

Then he's got to fair Margaret's bower. He's tolled low on the ring.
"Rise up, rise up, my may Margaret. rise up and let me in!"
"Oh, who is this at me bower door calling may Margaret's name?"
"It's only your first love, little Willie-o, this night come to her home."

"Open up the gates this night. Open and let me in,
For my boots are full of the Clyde water and I'm frozen to the skin."
"The burns are full of corn, Willie; the stable filled with hay,
And my bowers are full of gentlemen who won't remove till day."

"Fare thee well, may Margaret. Fare thee well and adieu,
For I have owned me mother's own curse by coming this night to you."
He's ridden over yon high, high hill and down yon dowy den,
And the rushing in the Clyde water took Willie's hat from him.

He's leaned him over his saddlebow to catch his hat again,
But the rushing in the Clyde water took Willie's cane from him.
He's leaned him over his saddlebow to catch his cane by force,
But the rushing in the Clyde water took Willie from his horse.

The very time that this young man sank into the part so deep,
Up and up is may Margaret, up from her dreary sleep.
"Come here; come here, my mother dear. Read to me my dream.
I dreamed my love was at our gate and no one let him in."

"Lie there, lie there, my may Margaret. Lie there and take your rest,
And since your love was at our gate, it's but two quarters past."
Nimbly, nimbly rose she up to the water's brim,
And the louder that this young girl cried, the louder grew the wind.

The very first step that she went in, she's up unto her feet,
And it's "Oh and alas" this young girl cried. "Your water's wondrous deep."
Oh the very next step that she went in, she's up unto her knees.
Cried she, "I would go further in if I my true lover could see."

Next step that she went in, she's up unto her chin,
And the deepest part of the Clyde water she found sweet William in,
Saying, "You've had a cruel mother and I have had another,
And now we sleep in the Clyde water like sister and like brother."

Oh, saying, "You've had a cruel mother and I have had another,
And now we sleep in the Clyde water like sister and like brother."


--Matt


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Clyde Water - version of Kate Rusby
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:57 PM

Sorry for the typos! The above should be "and meat for my man John", "remove", "cane" and disregard the line beneath my name!

--Matt


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Clyde Water - version of Kate Rusby
From: Snori
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 07:02 AM

Thanks very much for lyrics! Now I can understand whole song. I fact: I am not Scandinavian, I come from Poland, but I like Edda very much, so thats why I took the nich Snori. My hobby is bagpiping, If You want to know more about Polish Pipes please visit http://www.polbox.com/s/snori/polskie.html

Thanks one more time! Snori


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Ru
From: GUEST,Marlene McCall
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 02:40 AM

Hi there:

A correction:

The penultimate line in the first and second verse is actually "I'll away to fair Margaret's bower" (yes, "away" used as a verb)

It is this announcement of what he intends to do that elicits his mother's curse.

Marlene


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: pavane
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:56 AM

Looks remarkably similar to Nic Jones's version, if not identical!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Ru
From: cptsnapper
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:57 AM

May I suggest that you also listen to Nic Jones' version.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:02 AM

I'm fairly sure that Nic Jones's Willie's nose began to bleed- as did Lord Derwentwater's- it's a pretty bad omen.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Ru
From: Musket
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 07:32 AM

Spooky, I was listening to Nic's version when browsing this forum.

For anybody who perhaps doesn't know, it is on his rather seminal album Penguin Eggs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: pavane
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:01 AM

I don't actually have it to hand, I was relying on memory, but it does look pretty similar.

There are a couple more words on the transcrption above which seem wrong, though very minor.

"And all the way to fair Margaret's bower "
Should be "I'll away", I think (occurs twice)

"Make me a wrack as I come back "
Maybe WRECK?

"Then he's got to fair Margaret's bower "
When, not then?

"The burns are full of corn, Willie "
Surely not burns? Maybe Barns?

"For I have owned me mother's own curse"
I have WON?

"Up and up is may Margaret "
I think this is wrong, but can't remember

By the way, I am judging by a live recording, not the Penguin Eggs track, which I don't have.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Mick Walker
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:27 AM

"By the way, I am judging by a live recording, not the Penguin Eggs track, which I don't have."

I wouldn't have thought there were many out there that haven't got it - I certainly couldn't do without it, definitely a desert island disc if ever there was!!

In her songbook Kate Rusby mentions that she learnt it from a Nic Jones recording.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: pavane
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:59 AM

I think I have all of his other solo records (original vinyl where appropriate), just never got that one for some reason. (Except the latest CD, waiting for Christmas in case)

So I was right about Kate's words.


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Subject: Lyr Add: WILLIE AND MAY MARGARET
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 01:37 PM

WILLIE AND MAY MARGARET.

"THIS fragment, which Mr. Jamieson has published, and which possesses
considerable merit, he states was procured from Mrs. Brown of
Falkland—a lady to whom much of the traditionary poetry of Scotland
is mainly indebted for preservation."

"GIE corn to my horse, mither,
Gie meat unto my man;
For I maun gang to Margaret's
Before the nicht comes on."

"O stay at home now, my son Willie!
The wind blaws cald and dour;
The nicht will be baith mirk and late
Before ye reach her bower."

"O, though the night were ever sae dark,
Or the wind blew never sae cald,
I will be in my Margaret's bower
Before twa hours be tald."

"O gin ye gang to May Margaret,
Without the leave of me,
Clyde's water's wide and deep enough;—
My malisoun drown thee!"

He mounted on his coal-black steed,
And fast he rade awa;
But, ere he came to Clyde's water,
Fu' loud the wind did blaw.

As he rode o'er yon hich, hich hill,
And down yon dowie den,
There was a roar in Clyde water
Wad fear'd a hunder men.

His heart was warm, his pride was up;
Sweet Willie kentna fear;
But yet his mother's malison
Ay sounded in his ear.

O he has swam through Clyde water
Though it was wide and deep;
And he came to May Margaret's door
When a' were fast asleep.

O he's gane round and round about,
And tirled at the pin;
But doors were steek'd, and windows barr'd,
And nane wad let him in.

"O, open the door to me, Margaret—
O, open and let me in!
For my boots are full o' Clyde's water,
And frozen to the brim."

"I darena open the door to you,
Nor darena lat you in;
For my mither she is fast asleep,
And darena mak nae din."

"O gin ye winna open the door,
Nor yet be kind to me,
Now tell me o' some out chamber
Where I this nicht may be."

"Ye canna win in this nicht, Willie,
Nor here ye canna be;
For I've nae chambers out nor in,
Nae ane but barely three:

"The tane o' them is fu' o' corn,
The tither is fu' o' hay—
The tither is fu' o' merry young men,
They winna remove till day."

"O, fare ye weel, then, May Margaret,
Sin' better mauna be;
I've win my mother's malison
Coming this nicht to thee."

He's mounted on his coal-black steed—
O, but his heart was wae!
But, ere he came to Clyde water,
'Twas half up o'er the brae.
* * * *
———he plunged in,
But never raise again.


--from Minstrelsy Ancient and Modern, by William Motherwell (Paisley: Alex. Gardner, 1873).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 02:00 PM

Seems cut off a bit short...!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 02:49 PM

Yeah, that's why it's called a 'fragment'. If you want to make a more complete, singable version you could take or adapt some verses from another version.


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Subject: Lyr Add: WILLIE AND MARGARET
From: JeffB
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 04:17 PM

Here are some more to choose from :-


1 Willie stands in his stable door,
    and clapping at his steed,
   when over his white fingers
    his nose began to bleed.

2 "Gie corn unto my horse, mither,
    gie meat unto my man;
   for I maun gang to Margaret's bour
    before the nicht comes on."

3 "O bide at hame this nicht, Willie,
    this ae bare nicht wi' me;
   the bestan bed in a' my house
    sall be well made to thee.

4 O bide at hame this night , Willie,
    this ae bare nicht wi' me;
   the bestan bird in a' the roost
    at your supper, son, sall be".

5 "A' your beds and a' your roosts
    I value not a pin;
   but I sall gae to my love's gates
    this nicht, gif I can win."

6 "O stay at hame, my son Willie,
    the wind blaws cauld an' sour;
   the nicht will be baith mirk and late
    before ye reach her bour."

7 "O though the nicht were ever sae dark
    or the wind blew never sae cauld,
   I will be in my Margaret's bour
    before twa hors be tald."

8 "O an ye gang to Margerat's bour
    sae sair against my will,
   i' the deepest pot o' Clyde's water
    my malison ye'se feel."

9 As he rade owre yon high high hill,
    and doun yon dowie den,
   the roaring that was in Clyde water
    wad fley'd five hundred men.

10 His heart was warm, his pride was up,
    sweet Willie kentna fear;
   but yet his mither's malison
    aye soundis in his ear.

11 "O spare, O spare me, Clyde's water!
    Your stream rins wondrous strang;
   mak' me your wrack as I come back,
    but spare me as I gang!"

12 Then he rade in, and further in,
    and he swam to an' fro,
   until he's grippit a hazel bush
    that brung him to the brow.

13 Then he is on to Margeret's bour,
    and tirl-ed at the pin;
   but the doors were steek'd and windows barr'd,
    and nane wad let him in.

14 "O open the door to me, Mar'gret!
    O open and let me in!
   for my boots are fu' o' Clyde's water
    and the rain rins owre my chin."

15 "I darena open the door to you,
    nor darena let you in;
   for my mither she is fast asleep
    and I maun mak' nae din."

16 "O hae ye ne'er a stable?" says he,
    "or hae ye ne'er a barn?
   Or hae ye ne'er a wild-goose house
    where I may rest till morn?"

17 "My barn is fu' o' corn," she says,
    My stable is fu' o' hay;
   My house is fu' o' merry young men;
    they winna remove till day."

18 "O fare ye weel then, May Marg'ret,
    sin' better may na be!
   I've gotten my mither's malison
    this nicht, coming to thee."

19 He's mounted on his coal-black steed,
    - O but his heart was wae!
   But ere he came to Clyde's water
    'twas half up owre the brae.

20 "An hey, Willie! An hoa, Willie!
    Winna ye turn agen?"
   But aye the louder that she cried
    he rade agenst the win' "

21 As he rade owre yon high high hill
    an dou yon dowie den,
   the roaring that was in Clyde's water
    wad fley'd a thousand men.

22 Then he rade in, and further in,
    'till he cam' to the chine;
   the rushing that was in Clyde's water
    took Willie's riding-cane.

23 He lean'd him owre his saddle-bow
    to catch the rod by force;
   the rushing that was in Clyde's water
    took Willie frae his horse.

24 "O how can I turn my horse's head?
    How can I learn to sowm?
   I've gotten my mither's malison,
    and it's here that I maun drown!"

25 O he swam high, and he swam low,
    and he swam to and fro,
   but he couldna spy the hazel-bush
    wad bring him to the brow.

26 He's sunk and never rase agen
    into the pot sae deep ...
   and up it waken'd May Margaret
    out o' her drowsie sleep.

27 "Come hither, com here, my mither dear,
    read me this dreary dream;
   I dream'd my Willie was at our gates
    and nane wad let him in."

28 "Lie still, lie still now, my Meggie;
    lie still and tak' your rest;
   sin' your true-love was at your gates
    it's but twa quarters past" -

29 Nimbly, nimbly rase she up,
    and nimbly put she on;
   and the higher that the lady cried
    the louder blew the win'.

30 The firstan step that she stept in,
    she steppit to the queet:
   "Ohon, alas!" said that lady,
    "This water's wondrous deep."

31 The neistan step that she stept in,
    she waded to the knee;
   say she, "I cou'd wade farther in
    if I my love cou'd see."

32 The neistan step that she wade in
    she waded to the chin;
   the deepest pot in Clyde's water
    she got sweet William in.

33 "Ye've had a cruel mither, Willie!
    And I have had anither;
   but we sall sleep in Clyde's water
    like sister an' like brither."


malison = curse    dowie = dismal    fley'd = frightened
sowm = swim    queet = ankle

The Oxford Book of Ballads, edited by Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch (OUP 1910)

I wonder if there was a superstition that a man getting a nosebleed meant his girlfriend was being unfaithful - an example perhaps of sympathetic magic.

The scene of action is, I believe, near the Clyde headwaters.

Note that in this version Margaret's mother is not identified to the audience when she speaks to Willie, and that she tries to call him back when he rides away.

I'm a bit puzzled by a couple of things, such as the "wild-goose house." Were they trapping wild geese and keeping them for the pot? And why did Willie want his servant as well as his horse fed before he set off? Could there be missing verses where the servant comes along and then turns back?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: pavane
Date: 25 Nov 08 - 09:54 AM

It seems to be discussed under the name of "The Mother's Malison, or Clyde Water"
in The Popular Ballad By Francis Barton Gummere, Published by Houghton, Mifflin and company, 1907

A verse quoted in The North American Review, published by University of Northern Iowa, v.106 1868 Jan-Apr

has the line "Make me thy wrack as I come back", so I was wrong about "wreck", though I suppose it is the same word.

A full version is printed in "Minstrelsy: ancient and modern, with an historical intr. and notes", by W. Motherwell (?1827), of which an 1873 edition can be downloaded as a PDF from Google Books. This book contains a number of songs, and tunes for 30 of them.

The song is also quoted in the works of Ralph Waldo Emerson (1875).

In fact, there seem to be a large number of published versions to choose from.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE MOTHER'S MALISON, or, CLYDE'S WATER
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

From English and Scottish Popular Ballads edited from the collection of Francis James Child by Helen Child Sargent and George Lyman Kittredge (Boston and New York: Houghton, Mifflin and Company, 1904).


216

THE MOTHER'S MALISON, OR, CLYDE'S WATER

The passage in A 10-16, in which the mother, pretending to be her daughter, repels the lover, and the daughter, who has dreamed that her lover had come and had been refused admittance, is told by her mother that this had actually happened, and sets off in pursuit of her lover, seems to have been adopted from No. 76. A very popular Italian ballad (Nigra, No. 23) has some of the traits of 'The Mother's Malison,' parts being exchanged and the girl drowned.

A*
'Clide's Water,' The Old Lady's Collection, MS., No. 11.

1 'YE gie corn to my hors,
An meatt to my man,
For I will gai to my true-love's gates
This night, gin I can wine.'

2 'O stay att home, my son Willie,
This a bare night we me;
The best bed in a' my house
Sall be well made to the.'

3 'I care na for your beds, mider,
I care na a pin;
For I ill gae to my love's gates
This night, gin I can wine.'

4 'O stay, my son Willie,
This night we me;
The best hen in a' mey reast
Sall be well made ready for the.'

5 'I care na for your heans, midder,
I care na a pin;
For I ull gae to my love's gates
This night, gin I can wine.'

6 'Gin ye winnë stay, my son Willie,
This a bare night we me,
Gin Claid's water be dip an fue of flud,
My malicen droun ye in.'

7 He road up yon high hill,
An doun yon douë den;
The roring of Clid's water
Wod ha flied ten thousand men.

8 'O spair me, Claid's water,
Spare me as I gaa!
Make me yer wrak as I come back,
Bat spare me as I gaa!'

9 He raid in, an forder in,
Till he came to the chin;
An he raid in, an forder in,
Till he came to dray lan.

10 An fan he came to his love's gates
He tirled att the pin:
'Open yer gates, May Meggie,
Open yer gates to me,
For my bets is fue of Claid's water,
An the rain rins our my chine.'

11 'I ha ne loves therout,' she says,
'I haa ne love theren;
My true-love is in my arms tua,
An nean will I latt in.'

12 'Open yer gates, Meggie,
This night to me,
For Clide's water is full of flood,
An my mider's mallison will droun me in.'

13 'An of my chambers is full of corn,' she says,
'Anether is full of hay,
The other is full of gentelmen,
An they winnë remove till day.'

14 Out waked her May Meggie,
Out of her drussie dream:
'I dreamed a dream nou san the streen,
God read a' dreams to gued!
That my true-love Willie
Was stalling att my bed-feet.'

15 'Nou lay still, my a dather,
An keep my back fraa the call;
It's na the space of haf an hour
Sayn he gade fra your hall.'

16 'Hey, Willie! an hou, Willie!
An Willie, winnë ye turn agen?'
But ay the louder that she crayed
He read agenst the wind.

17 He raid up yon high hill,
An doun yon douë den,
An the roring that was in Clid's water
Wad ha fleed ten thousand men.

18 He raid in
Tell he came to the chine,
An he raid forder in,
Bat never mare came out agen.

19 She sought him up, she sought him doun,
She sought him braid an narrou;
In the depest pot in a' Claid's water,
Ther she gat Suit Willie.

20 She has kissed his comly mouth,
As she had den afore:
'Baith our midders sall be alike sorry,
For we's bath slipe soun in Glide's water.'

21 Ther was na mare seen of that gued lord
Bat his hat frae his head;
There was na mare seen of that gued lady
Bat her keem an her sneed.

22 Ther mideers went up an doun the water,
Saying, Clayd's water din us wrong!


[*Note: version B in this collection is identical to the Motherwell version I posted above.]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 11:06 PM

Does anyone know of a North American Version of this great song?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 12:02 AM

Why would you need one?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Ru
From: Tootler
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM

Two reasons I can think of straight off

It's interesting to compare North American versions to versions from the British Isles to see how they have changed in crossing the Atlantic.

If you were born and brought up in North America, a version from there is part of your heritage so it's natural to want to sing it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:44 AM

'Clyde's Water' seems never to have been found in tradition outside Scotland.

I suppose there may be recorded arrangements by a few North American revival performers. If you want to sing it yourself and prefer to avoid having to grapple with unfamiliar Scottish words, transcriptions of the collated and anglicized texts used by Martin Carthy and Nic Jones can be seen at http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/nic.jones/songs/thedrownedlovers.html


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 06:33 PM

Thanks for the questions & responses.

Tootler basically nailed my main reasons for wanting a North American version: While I have listened to the Martin Carthy version and the Kate Rusby version (which is, I understand, basically Nic Jones' version), I wanted to know if there was a version closer to home before learning/adapting either or both of the Anglicized revival versions. I have done that with other songs, but it adds another layer of distance between singer and song when you Americanize an Anglicized Scots song, don't you think?

Since I'm going to be mucking around myself with the song, I think I may see how the Anglicized words fit with the Scottish tune Ewan MacColl recorded on one of the Blood & Roses albums.

While we're on the subject of this song, I'm curious what people think about the somewhat different tunes/treatments used by Carthy and Rusby. His is melodically more complex but rhythmically straighter, I think, while hers is the reverse.

Thoughts on any/all of this?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: pavane
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:35 AM

A recording by Nic Jones is (or WAS) available (I have it on a folk sampler) though I found his live performance very much more exciting.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Mick Walker
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:01 AM

There is a live version on the cd Game Set Match which was released in 2006.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:18 AM

"it adds another layer of distance between singer and song when you Americanize an Anglicized Scots song"

I don't get this at all. If you like a song and it speaks to you, then sing it. It's already anglicized from the Lowland Scots. This means that Americans will be able to understand it. To my thinking, a layer of distance has been removed.

As in that silly "prissy fingerpicking" thread, IMO it's a mistake to over-think this stuff. Sing what you like, and if you're any good at all, your audience will like it too.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Chris Seymour
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:15 PM

Yes and no, Michael. I agree in general with the "if you like a song then sing it," principle. And I sing a few Anglicized Scots songs basically unchanged from the Anglicized version of the singer I learned it from. (For example, I sing with few changes Martin Carthy's version of Bill Norrie.)

However,I can't quite sing any of the various sets of Anglicized lyrics I've seen to "Clyde Water" or "Drowned Lover" though I like to listen to Martin Carthy, Nic Jones and Kate Rusby sing them. Perhaps the Anglicization is too Anglo for me to sing. Perhaps the "translation" is too obviously a translation (as in: poetry is what gets lost in..)

Anyway, I'm going to look at some Scots versions and collate and Americanize them and see what I come up with.

Cheers,

Chris


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:46 PM

Fair enough, Chris -- let us know what you come up with!

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 11:54 PM

I'd just like to add my support to those who have expressed their appreciation for the very fine live version of 'Clyde Water' on Nic Jones' 'Game, Set, and Match' CD; to my mind it is far superior to the version on 'Penguin Eggs', which seems far to jolly for the theme.

But I'd be very interested in any information anyone has about the tune(s) to this song. Is the tune sung by Rusby/Jones fairly recent, and if so, who wrote it? And where does Martin Carthy's (different) tune come from?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: pavane
Date: 16 Sep 10 - 06:57 AM

I would guess that Nic Jones created it, as he did with many songs, if there is no other source quoted.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 07:28 PM

"Clyde Water" is the song for February 3 in Jon Boden's A Folk Song a Day project...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Drowned Lovers / Clyde Water (Kate Rusby)
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 02:24 PM

'I would guess that Nic Jones created it, as he did with many songs, if there is no other source quoted.'
Nic Jones seems to have lifted his version in its entirety from, 'Traditional Ballad Airs' Dean Christie 1876 - This isn't the only song of Nic's which is from this collection.


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