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BS: lost forever
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:33 AM annamill... Jimmy Carter had a word for it. He called it a "malaise." Here in the U.S. we're supposed to be living in the best of times. The economy is booming, unemployment is down, etc etc etc. Yet, like you observed on the subway, a significant portion of people appear to be unhappy, discontented. And if you asked them and they were honest and open with themselves, they would probably tell you so. Jung and other noted psychologists observed it in about a third of their patients, enough to warrant its own label (which escapes me, but I'll look it up if you're interested) - a general apathy and lack of affectation, similar to but different from clinical depression. Why? What's missing? Maybe these people no longer believe in anything. Like you said, they've been lied to so much and experienced so much disappointment there's a vacuum in their lives that they try to fill. Capitalism tries to plug that hole with advertisements whose not-so-subtle message is: happiness is just a major purchase away. But sooner or later, regardless of economic status, the realization hits that acquiring lots of things is not the path to contentment. harpgirl mentioned the desire to know the psyche of primitive peoples. My uneducated guess is that a big chunk of those peoples' mental processes was devoted to meeting the basic needs and discovering the cultural advances that make affluence for a lamentably small portion of us possible today. In modern times those same needs of us lucky folk are met with relative ease, allowing us more leisure time to search for meaningful life interaction beyond mere survival. An article I was reading suggested that generally the key to happiness was for each individual to discover his/her unique, creative talent and devote a significant portion of one's time to that talent. But what if each individual doesn't have a unique, creative talent? Is it considered common knowledge that everyone is good at something? Maybe that's an unrealistic expectation. Are there citizens whose talents don't extend beyond the realm of the ordinary, for whom it takes all the creativity they can muster to rise to the level of the daily grind? Perhaps they are the windowless souls you see on the trains and busses. The late William Burroughs said the definition of a psychotic was someone who'd just figured out what was really going on. Thanks, annamill, for your thoughts provoking my thoughts.
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Jeri Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:23 AM Regarding rudeness, we have a tendency, when we can't see or hear non-verbal clues, to fill in the blanks with motives and meanings, usually neither good nor accurate. A sarcastic comment by someone who's words we read a lot here will be put into context (oh, he/she's just being a smartass) whereas from someone we don't know, the words will automatically identify them as a nasty, sour old meany. Arguments usually only bug me when one or more people quit talking about the subject (probably because they're losing, or afraid of losing) and go straight for a character assault on their opponent. Regarding the actual subject, all things pass. All the losses the world has suffered have made the world what it is today. This is not to say the world would not be a better place if some of the things (include people, animals, inanimate objects) were still around, or that some of the losses were not tragic and untimely. I still think the greatest loss is that of an idea, or an ideal. I agree with annamill. Humans are social. Humans tend to care for weaker members of their group. Different groups once fought because one had something necessary for the other's survival. At some point in our history, it became unnecessary for any group of humans to kill another group for survival, but we've kept doing it for other reasons. I don't know if it's a loss something that was, or something that could have been. If humans had developed that feeling of social belonging to include rather than exclude, most of the losses listed above would have never happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lonesome EJ Date: 06 Sep 00 - 02:35 AM On a human scale,I think no loss can ever compare to the Holocaust in Europe. How much promise was extinguished there? What Shakespeares,Platos,Einsteins were among those murdered in their childhoods?And what loss of innocence did Mankind suffer from that clinical expression of the worst side of its nature? For my country,I think the greatest loss was in Abraham Lincoln's assassination.Having suffered through five years of slaughter,holding the union together with his strength of will and the brilliance of his words,this man of peace at last saw his country delivered to safety.How might we have healed had he been there as healer?What other work might he have been capable of?The shot that rang out in Ford's Theater that night changed the direction of this country,and denied Lincoln his legacy of Peace. Perhaps the most intriguing loss is that of the Arc of the Covenant.Most scholars agree that it probably did exist,and its history is documented in the ancient history of other peoples of the near east as well as in the biblical accounts.For thousands of years it was produced by the Israelites in times of war and catastrophe to work its miracles on their behalf.If such a thing did exist,would it indeed manifest the Power of Heaven? Or was its power the result of a lost science known only to the ancients?
LEJ |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: jacko@nz Date: 06 Sep 00 - 02:16 AM Kendal I am sorry this thread didn't "go the way you wanted" Are you surprised with this lot:-) Signed, another stirrer currently masquerading as nitwit |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 06 Sep 00 - 01:35 AM (Just returning from the harmonica thread...) So, Art, how do you really feel about George Dubya and the republicans? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Art Thieme Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:42 PM Good folks, Matt (Mbo) started a thread asking "what harmonica should a beginner use!?" I started to answer and it C-R-E-E-P-E-D into what should've been more properly posted here in this LOSS LEADER thread of Kendall's. If anyone wants to read it, please go there ! But then come back here. My treatise is more about Bush's inappropriate remarks today than it is about harmonicas -- and I am sorry for that. But it's about why turnabout is fair play and "what's good for the goose is good for getting your dander--er gander--up". Pardon my euphoria, please, but I just spent two days back on the Mississippi River with Carol and Chris and his wife Shannon anf Ace Trone and Chris Vallillo (fine picker and singer) and so many old river rat friends that I can't name 'em all. I'm so high from it that I can't sleep. All we lacked was Mr. Hartford being healthy enough that he felt up to being with us too. He might could use a word or a thought or a vibe or a prayer from us all right now. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:12 PM harpgirl, I appreciate your thoughts. If it was I who had been spoken to in the way that came off as sounding rude, I think you are right that I should investigate instead of jumping to conclusions. I was not. However, in light of some of the things that were said in some of the previous posts, I feel that my comments were not unreasonable. Best wishes, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:57 PM Aw, Art! Please don't say that traditional folk music is lost forever! As long as there are folks like you, it will never die. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: harpgirl Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:50 PM have you loaded ICQ art???? oh boy!!! I hope so, good guess about K |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Art Thieme Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:45 PM Another great philosophical advancement that we have lost to the sound bite is the old standby---the bumper sticker. Abby, I just tried to call you and was electronically told that you are indisposed.(Soooooo, say hi to K.) All the great examples of loss here truly does seem to show pretty graphically just how relative the concept can be to us all. I suspect it's a matter of whose ox is being gored---and what your paricular ox actually is when your rose colored blinders have been removed. My ox is trad folk music, but I bet, from my many pronouncements here, you already knew that ! (And so many mediocre singer/songwriters have, in recent years, grown huge horns and run amok. Where are the matadors when we really need them? Arise, o ghost of Manolete and Juan Belmonte and Joselito and stand with me now ! Fat chance. ;-) Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: harpgirl Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:27 PM Yes, Carol. Perhaps it might be better if you asked if someone intended to be rude rather than assume it!! Regards! harpgirl |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:19 PM So, be reasonable...do it MY way!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:15 PM harpgirl, it's frequently hard to tell the difference. Not just in kendall, but in anyone who is "sure of him or herself". That's what we need civility for. That's how we keep from turning this beautiful website into a toxic waste dump. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:12 PM I'm not about to kiss Brendy (its that testosterone thing again) and, I'm sure he will agree. lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:07 PM Alright, then. Now kiss and make up *BG* Warmest regards, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: harpgirl Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:05 PM ...I wish I could bring up the psyche of primitive humans...all of stone age history is lost to us or we can only guess at how early humans thought...that might explain the interest in football! Kendall is never rude, just sure of himself!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 05 Sep 00 - 08:24 PM Apologies from me too, kendall. I meant no harm by posting to this thread. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 08:20 PM I have never started a fight, but, I have finished a few. If I have been rude, it was not intentional. Brendy, if I have insulted you, I apologize. The thread I started didnt go the way I wanted it to thats all. Thanks for your support Jeri, you know me, they dont. I'm a natural born agitator. Finally, Carol, a good shot of testosterone at my age is not to be sniffed at!! LOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: guinnesschik Date: 05 Sep 00 - 08:00 PM I know that like everything else around here, I join this thread a bit late, but I have to say that the greatest loss we've experienced in recent times is the loss of a strong family unit. Both of my daughters go to school with children who cannot read, have no social graces, lack civility and respect for others, and have no concept of right and wrong. Double income families don't necessarily make for "bad" kids, it's the parents' self-centeredness. Both my husband and I worked for years (now we're self-employed), and our kids are happy, healthy, literate AND polite. We took the extra effort to provide consistency, strength, and support to our children. Too many adults are too lazy to give their children what they really need. I'm a first-wave "Gen-X" adult, and my generation is so selfish and immature that I fear for all our children. Sorry for the loss of strong family units and very, very fearful of our future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:40 PM Well Carol, we all have an excuse. Brendy's Irish, Kendall's a crusty old sea captain, and I'm red headed. God help us if we get an old redheaded Irish crusty sea captain! You'll hear us bickering from 10 blocks away! **BG** |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Jeri Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:29 PM CarolC - Kendall's not rude - he's from Maine. They have a tendency to say things up there, sometimes with a twinkle in their eye, which come off as rude without the accent and the ability to see the twinkle. I'm not sure if he's irritated or just taking the piss at this point. (I'll know if I end up receiving a comment like "Throwing a life preserver at a duck makes you look stupid and the confuses the duck.") |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:13 PM I don't want to start a sport thread, man. I only wish to have the right to judge my losses the way I want. Had you 'let' me have that right, we could be talking about things that require real knowledge at this moment in time; i.e. things that you deem important. I'm sure I could keep up with you. You're not really all that difficult to follow. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:13 PM Loss....what about this? --Matt |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:10 PM Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio? The nation turns it's lonely eyes to you...woo woo woo...what's that you say, Mrs.Robinson? Joltin' Joe has left and gone away... |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:10 PM annamill- Like deer in headlights. Kendall, most of the testosterone I see in threads here in the mudcat (and most of the fighting) comes from you and a small handful of others. Mickey191 mentioned on this very thread the loss of civility and manners. I was one hundred percent behind you until you started being rude to people. I vote for civility. Respectfully, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:08 PM OK look, I am not knocking your national game, but, lets face it it is a GAME!!! hardly on a par with all the knowledge of the known world. If you want to start a sport thread, go ahead and I wont bother you with real knowledge, ok? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:06 PM Youi took the words right off of my keyboard, kendall B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:06 PM Beethoven's lost penny. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:01 PM On a dead mans door, you can knock forever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 05 Sep 00 - 06:52 PM Well you seem to be yelping a lot, kendall. However, I fail to see why you should equate one's love of one's National game, with wackos running around your neck of the woods with testosterone poisoning. After all, you wouldn't have mentioned sport related violence, had I not mentioned sport, would you?; wanting, as you were, to keep this discussion about losses that you approve of. Ridicule my favourite game, if you want. Hate all sport, if you must, but don't assume the high moral ground, and claim to hold the monopoly on what is or is not valuable to a person, and judge it's loss to them by your own standards. A thread entitled 'Hypocrisy and the Folk Musician', might prove interesting, don't you think? B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: annamill Date: 05 Sep 00 - 06:06 PM I don't know if it's age or just a sudden realization I've had. I don't think others have had it. I look around me at humans and each and everyone of them looks innocent. Because of that innocence, they wander around bewildered about how it should be! Going about trying to deal. They don't even know they're innocent. I work in NY and ride the busses, trains, subways. I've taken to watching peoples eyes. The windows of the soul. I see a lot pain. People get lied to all their lives about how it should be. Life I mean. How can you go through life and not be disappointed? I see old people totally bewildered. Wandering around trying to deal with daily life. Scared! I see young beautiful people with eyes filled with anger, fear, bewilderment. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE?? What do I have to do to be happy??? How can I succeed when everything they've told me is a lie?? NO ONE CARES ABOUT ME!! I see business people who think they're savvy hanging on to the straps with hurt in their eyes. Im doing what they say to do. WHY AREN"T I HAPPY??? I'm following the rules, damn it. Why am I struggling? What do I miss most in our civilization?? Love and understanding! It makes me want to hide away sometimes. I can see the innocence. Can't anyone else?? Love, annamil |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 02:49 PM I didn't accuse anyone of anything. Old Maine saying.."If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, only the one it hits will yelp." |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 05 Sep 00 - 01:21 PM Manchester City, I think, Meeb. Although there could well be another club with that name. I don't follow foreign games too much, though. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 01:17 PM Thanks, Brend, didn't know that. BTW is Manchester United "The Blues"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 05 Sep 00 - 01:11 PM What about that Columbian (?) football player, Meebs. It happens, alright. But the point Lox makes, and that I do, in different words, is that what's important to one, may not necessarily be important to someone else. Or at least not as important. All I said was that I was disappointed Armagh failed to win their first ever All Ireland; I may not be around for the next time they get the opportunity, and kendall accuses me of being a brainless football hooligan on the top of that. Sorry, man. Too anal-retentive for my liking, I'm afraid. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 05 Sep 00 - 12:42 PM Salman Rushdie had a price put on his head just for writing a book that some people didn't like. As far as I know, no sports figures have been selected as targets of assasination. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 12:37 PM I'm not claiming to be "more cultured" I'm asking for an explanation. What you just said helps. How many case of madness have we seen where one bunch of wackos attacks another because some sport playes won or lost? Right here recently, one man beat to death another man because they had an argument over a hockey game. If this is not testosterone poisoning, I'd like to know what is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Kim C Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:19 AM Over the holiday weekend I took a drive down the Natchez Trace, from Nashville to Hohenwald, where Meriwether Lewis's grave is. It was very refreshing. Along the Trace there are no condos, no commercial developments, no gas stations, no ATMs, and at one point my cell phone (which Mister insisted I take with me since I was alone) read No Service. And the speed limit is only 40 or 50, depending on where you are. So you can't drive like a maniac along the Trace (and wouldn't want to - it's curvy and not conducive to such). Many of these unspoiled natural areas have been lost to what some call "progress," but my faith in humanity was somewhat renewed by this solo excursion. But I started thinking about Lewis & Clark, and their fantastic journey, and wondered how many kids today know anything about the Corps of Discovery and what they did. Meriwether Lewis was under 30 years of age at the time, and a mere 35 when he died. What other amazing things could he have accomplished? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:18 AM Kendall. I would like to take this opportunity to direct you towards a song called "Joxer goes to Stuttgart" by Christy Moore. Team games like football, rugby, Gaelic football and Hurling are deeply entrenched in British and Irish culture. I don't know to what extent this is true of sports in American culture, having never been there, but I have an impression that there is a slightly different approach in the States. In England in particular, traditional culture (as we so romantically like to call it) was stamped out by the industrial revolution. People were forced from the countryside into cities to work for the greater glory of industry. The result was that communities had to find another way of reaffirming their identity. Football matches were just such a vehicle for this purpose. Football has a history in Britain an Ireland, and in fact everywhere else in the world apart from America, of uniting communities and countries in celebration of themselves. (The world cup is the single most popular sporting event on the planet) There is nowhere in the world outside America where people do not know who Manchester United are. If you don't believe this then get on a plane and find out for yourself. Passion for football is intense in every country from India (check out their olympic team in the 50's) to Korea, to Russia, to Brazil, to Argentina to South Africa to Libya to Italy, Spain, Portugal .... blah .... blah ... etc. 6,000,000,000 people (for it is not just men who get excited at football matches) understand what I am talking about. Please don't pretend that you are somehow more cultured because you are interested in the loss of a library that may or may not have had some interesting knowledge contained within it. To deny you are human is the first mistake of humanity. lox |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:20 AM now, thats more like it..a serious loss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:29 AM your one true love...and the loss of dreams and hope. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 05 Sep 00 - 08:59 AM I have never understood spectator sports. When I was a boy I loved baseball. That is, I loved to PLAY baseball..Then, I grew up.. I now have brothers who sit all afternoon on sundays watching a bunch of high morons go round and round for 4 or 5 hours. Explain it will ya? Grown men with stickers on their cars of a little brat pissing on Ford logos, or Chevvy logos. On top of that, they think I'm pedantic because I read something other than GUNS & AMMO or Sports Afield. It's hard to discuss the W.T.O. with someone whos interest does not go beyond which bunch of glandular cases won or lost some silly ass ball kicking/throwing/hitting thing.I have an open mind about almost everything, so, if you can explain it, I'd appreciate it. If you cant, well, that should tell you something... |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 05 Sep 00 - 04:26 AM It's not kreplachs, it's good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:37 PM Hi folks!
The greatest loss to me
but the greatest loss to you A bit crap I know, but I made it up just now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:49 PM Kendall. Don't for God's sake ever get the impression that it is a silly ass ball kicking thing game! If you wanted to have a go at 'thread drifters', you should have started a bit further up the list. When you start a BS thread, kendall, I'm afraid you have to take what's posted. We all have to live with that. You're no different. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Midchuck Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:33 PM Fionn said: "Plenty to think about here! Liz, I can't comment on rape, but you're wrong about paedaphiles. The incidence of child attacks/murder etc has not significantly changed over the years. We have just become more aware of the problem..." Very good point! A lot of the darker aspects of our society are no more or less around than they have been for a long time; people are just more aware of them because it's hard to sweep anything under the rug in the "information age." John Kennedy's sexual exploits while in the White House make Clinton's look insignificant...but they were kept under cover at the time, and Kennedy's still the White Knight of Camelot and Clinton is just a dirty old man... Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:30 PM Brendy, I thought I made it clear at the start what I was wondering about. I dont see how you can put some silly game on the same level as the loss of the library at Alexander. So, we seem to have run out of important things, so, go ahead with the silly stuff if thats the best you can do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Jeri Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:22 PM Jon - thanks for the cue on Fox Hollow. More than a loss of a festival, it was a loss of innocent wonder and belonging inspired by the festival. Have you ever felt something like magic? The concerts were outstanding, but what I remember most was the night. Impromptu dancing on the lawn, with the grass under the trees lit by moonlight and people flickering in and out of it like faeries. Singing in a darkened campsite, where you couldn't see the people standing near you, but it didn't matter anyway because within the song, there was no boundary between them and you. Soft rain falling through tall fir trees, and a smell of pine and hemlock. I, and probably everyone else, felt like we belonged there, in the forest at night, with the music everywhere and everyone in love with it. There have been many greater losses to the world. This one isn't the world's - it's mine. Perhaps the world's greatest loss really is the loss of innocence. If everyone were in a situation where they were able to hang onto that feeling for their whole lives, where would we be now... |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mbo Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:18 PM Mother Teresa, though I believe the love she spread throughout the world continues to live, and will never die. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 04 Sep 00 - 09:17 PM Sssssh, Lox. kendall wants us to keep this high brow, but:
Next Year!!!Ok, then. How about the Lisdoonvarna Folk Festival? Non-commercial Fleadhanna Cheóil? George Jr.'s credibility, now that those remarks were broadcast all over the world? Lots of things, really! B. |