Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader

Subject: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: GUEST,Luther
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 04:23 PM

yep, Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie have given Ralph the Folkie Icon Seal of Approval.

Pete and Arlo Say Vote Ralph!

I doubt many Nader supporters care much about celebrity endorsements, but that's quite a list.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 05:13 PM

I see Iris DeMent is on the list twice!! Can there be two Iris DeMent's? (AND A VOICE COMES BACK: NO WAY)
yours, Peter T. P.S. Once she is listed as a musician, and once as a folk musician. Obviously some doubt out there....

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: GUEST,Luther
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 05:36 PM

oh, you silly! Iris is on there twice, to make up for Michelle Shocked being on there once. Sigh... do I have to explain everything to you people???!!!!

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 05:41 PM

Don't overlook my man Willie Nelson who is also there.

Len

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Biskit
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 06:03 PM

What a SURPRISE!-Biskit-

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Troll
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 07:57 PM

Well...I mean...That justabout nails it down now don't it.

troll

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:35 PM

gee!...well, I'm not deciding till I see what Bob Dylan and Tom Paxton say!...*choking..sputtering...coughing...giggling*

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: DougR
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:36 PM

Well, Guest Luther, I'd be happy to endorse Ralph myself, if I thought it would get him some votes!

DougR

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: GUEST,Luther
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:07 PM

nah, DougR, thanks for the offer, but we're looking for icons here. I mean, you seem like a decent fellow, but there's the name recognition thing -- sorry!

What you could do, though, is vote for him. As I'm sure you know, a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, so unlike those poor saps who only get one candidate for their vote, you'll double your voting investment. Remember, that's a %100 return on your voting investment!!!!

Tell your friends!

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:11 PM

Nader says SOME of the right things...but I would HATE voting for someone I wouldn't trust with the job...and Nader simply could NOT handle it...and has too much baggage and bad karma!...He did what he needed to do...stir up issues.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:32 AM

Go Nader! DougR

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: thosp
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:00 AM

Luther, i really like your take --- so how about it DougR --can we count on you voting Nader/Bush?

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Peg
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:48 PM

A moratorium on the death penalty?

A halt to obscene military spending?

An effort to decriminalize drug use and get prisoners sentenced for drug use into rehab programs and out of jail so there is room for REAL criminals to serve their time?

A dedicated effort to reduce reliance on fossil fuels and nuclear power and utilize an endless FRE source of energy, namely, solar power?

I like Ralph and Winona. If voting with my conscience gets me four years of Bush, at least I can still look at myself in the mirror each day because I TRIED to make a difference...

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:52 PM

Right on, Peg! I agree with you 100%, and I truly mean it! Everyone SHOULD vote their conscience regardless of who they vote for (IMO). DougR

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:37 PM

BillD,

Once again, you and I agree.

I love Pete. (I even like Arlo)---BUT Nader can't win ! Ralph Nader has my respect on several levels but his presence in the race can only ensure that Bush will win. Politics in a democracy being the art of securing the possible, has, over the years, shown me the folly of going with adolescent heart impulses when to do that means tossing away your vote and amplifying the victory chances of those whose ideas you abhore. Bush and his people are COUNTING ON all of you Nader folks to put him and big oil's Cheney into the White House. And if he succeeds we will all pay a big price for your idealism.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: kendall
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:52 PM

Peg, I respect your need to vote your concience. I can only hope you are past the age when you might want an abortion, because, if Bush wins, Roe v Wade is out the window.And, the president of the NRA will be delighted..I heard him say so.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:11 PM

How about this. We eliminate the threat of George dubya this year, and work for Ralph Nader (or someone like him) for next time!

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:21 PM

not a bad plan, Bartholomew....if we can find someone with BOTH sense and honesty!

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 03:58 PM

I'm in agreement with those who feel that a vote for Nader is sure to help elect Bush. Caroline and I worked for Toby Moffett and helped to elect him to Congress three times. Toby set up the Connecticut Citizen's Action Group as a pilot program for his friend Nader. They had been friends for many years. Toby is now urging people to avoid the "reckless" choice. He wrote a serious Op-Ed piece about Nader's folly that the Hartford Courant published a few weeks ago.

Another serious consideration: were Nader to be elected as the Green Party candidate (and there's not a chance of that happening, we all realize), how could he work with the Congress? He's not known to be a skillful compromiser. That may be seen by some of you as a virtue, but hardly as an effective means of getting programs through the House and Senate.

I'll go along with Bartholomew's thought. Work to get Nader, or some equally dedicated person, nominated for the next go around, and by a major party. Get in there and work hard to make that party responsive to the problems that concern you the most. So far, the Democratic Party does that best for me. Prescription drugs for senior citizens under MediCare would help me (and many others like me) a lot! Gore's plan does it better.

Grandpa Sandy

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:04 PM

Sandy, (surprise surprise) I agree with you on the approach you suggest. I think a third or fourth party candidate is going to have a very difficult time getting elected in the forseeable future. Get out and work hard for the person you like and help them win the nomination of a major party.

DougR

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: thosp
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:42 PM

i'm sorry but to me it's more like a vote for Gore is a vote for Bush --- over the years i have watched the democrats become more and more a mirror image of conservative republicans -- the democratic partys' rhetoric does not match their actions --- the democrats can ignore Nader type constituencies as long as they continue to vote for the so-called lesser evil - that lesser evil has moved so far that todays democrat is more conservative than 25 yrs ago republican -- with few exceptions----- so how far will we go before we recognize that we aren't anywhere near where we want to be ---

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 07:03 PM

And who, friend thosp, is "we?" But you are right about the democratic rhetoric. You evidently haven't recognized yet that they they will say anything, promise anything, do anything to get elected. Once elected, they feel no real obligation to follow through on the promises.

And then when it is time for another campaign, they just dust off the old promises, present them to the public as good ones, and lots of good people fall all over themselves to get in line and vote for them.

DougR

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:03 PM

What if we make a deal. If someone wants to vote for Nader but is afraid that his vote will aid Bush, I'll promise him/her that if he/she votes for Nader instead of Gore, I'll vote for the Libertarian candidate instead of Bush. (I had previously said I was going to vote for Bush because he would do less, therefore he would do less harm.) That way we can each strike a blow at the two-party system, which is the real cause of the problem, without actually helping out the people we perceive as the bad guys.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Bert
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:31 PM

This is Marymac on Bert's computer. I wish I were home, and my 'puter there was working, cause I've received a really good article via email about how NO 3rd party candidate has EVER been a "spoiler", and taken an election away from a candidate who would've otherwise gotten in. Part of it is because of our electoral system. One reason to vote for Nader is because it will show the dems that we want them to move back over to left of center, and not just a little left of the repubs! As it is, we have tweedledumb and tweedledumber!!! I will try to get my 'puter workin' again, and then I can send the article to any who want it.

Marymac

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: thosp
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:52 PM

DougR --- well by we - i actually mean those who vote for someone they percieve to be a lesser evil rather than the person they really want but think can't win ---- -----------

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Peg
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:33 PM

wow, Midchuck I was pretty impressed with that offer!

Folks, may I remind you again:

55% of the voting-eligible American populace DOES NOT VOTE.

55% is a majority.

I think trying to make is seem like there is some mathematical certainty to the idea that a vote for Nader equals a vote for Bush, is to ignore this fact.

The problem seems to be one of apathy, does it not? And at least one primary source for this apathy is the perception that Bush is Tweedledum, and Gore is Tweedledee, and our individual votes carry little or no weight in terms of effecting change...in that direction, madness lies...

Break the cycle.

Now.

Please.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:03 PM

I believe that any viable Third Party must build itself from the grass roots up,should represent a definite political philosophy,and should begin at State,Local and Congressional levels.Any third party candidacy based on the supposed inregrity or brilliance of the individual candidate (particularly on the Presidential level) is doomed to follow John Anderson,George Wallace,and Ross Perot into the dust bin of history.The Republican Party was a grass-roots third party that arose over the specific issues of slavery and western expansion in the 1800s,formerly called the Free Soil Party. Lincoln was its first elected President,but he was not its progenitor. Granted,this kind of effort would require much more effort and a longer range goal than throwing forward an alternative candidate for President and expecting a mass defection from the existing two-party system,but it could be a more meaningful and long-term method of making an impact.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: Peg
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:13 PM

good points all around, EJ...but it's not like the Green Party sprang up just this year because Ralph decided to officially run for office.

The Green Party has been a viable party in Europe for two decades now and it has failed to catch on in the United States primarily because there has not been any one candidate which has inspired a following...for that reason alone, Nader could be considered part of that burgeoing movement, to prime the canvas for a viable third party in the manner you are suggesting...

In other words, it's not just Nader people are passionate about; it's the Green Party platform. LaDuke's positions embody these principles as well.

I will be the first to admit the Green Party seems a bit discombobulated at times: full of socialists and hippies and reluctant Libertarians and back-to-the-landers and pagans and feminists and environmental activists, etc. and they don't all agree on what the platform is and so they often cannot agree on who their best candidates are...but they are pretty much all behind Nader now.

They also seem to agree it is time for America to break free from the corporate stranglehold on the government and the media...and Nader is all about that.

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: DougR
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:48 AM

Thanks for the clarification, thosp.

Peg, you've made some good points. Anyone interested in a third party must work hard for it. Nader is probably the strongest third party candidate to take the field ever. He has a lot of support, I think. He is obviously not my candidate, but a lot of people really like him.

I think the debates would have been a lot more interesting if they had allowed the other three candidates to participate.

DougR

Subject: RE: Pete and Arlo Endorse Nader
From: GUEST,guest still
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:10 AM

A vote for Nader is not a wasted vote. I know as I am very conservative and he has my vote.