Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Help: When a friend is depressed

Thomas K 04 Oct 00 - 05:25 PM
sophocleese 04 Oct 00 - 05:35 PM
mousethief 04 Oct 00 - 05:36 PM
catspaw49 04 Oct 00 - 05:41 PM
catspaw49 04 Oct 00 - 05:43 PM
wysiwyg 04 Oct 00 - 05:43 PM
Little Hawk 04 Oct 00 - 05:45 PM
GUEST 04 Oct 00 - 05:46 PM
skarpi 04 Oct 00 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,DocJohn 04 Oct 00 - 05:49 PM
Kim C 04 Oct 00 - 05:56 PM
catspaw49 04 Oct 00 - 06:04 PM
mousethief 04 Oct 00 - 06:06 PM
Thomas K 04 Oct 00 - 06:08 PM
catspaw49 04 Oct 00 - 06:14 PM
SINSULL 04 Oct 00 - 06:15 PM
catspaw49 04 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM
Marion 04 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM
mousethief 04 Oct 00 - 06:31 PM
Marion 04 Oct 00 - 06:43 PM
Ebbie 04 Oct 00 - 06:44 PM
bbelle 04 Oct 00 - 06:46 PM
Thomas K 04 Oct 00 - 06:58 PM
Jim Dixon 04 Oct 00 - 07:29 PM
wysiwyg 04 Oct 00 - 07:37 PM
Naemanson 04 Oct 00 - 09:17 PM
rabbitrunning 04 Oct 00 - 09:35 PM
GUEST,Joerg 04 Oct 00 - 10:54 PM
sophocleese 05 Oct 00 - 03:36 PM
Wavestar 05 Oct 00 - 07:26 PM
GUEST,Joerg 05 Oct 00 - 10:41 PM
hesperis 05 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM
GUEST,guest still 06 Oct 00 - 12:32 AM
Mrrzy 06 Oct 00 - 09:17 AM
little john cameron 06 Oct 00 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,Joerg 06 Oct 00 - 10:14 PM
katlaughing 07 Oct 00 - 12:58 AM
GUEST,ShadowMonk 07 Oct 00 - 12:09 PM
natasha 07 Oct 00 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,Joerg 07 Oct 00 - 10:34 PM
GUEST,Joerg 07 Oct 00 - 10:43 PM
Marion 02 Feb 01 - 02:03 PM
Steve in Idaho 02 Feb 01 - 02:35 PM
katlaughing 02 Feb 01 - 05:29 PM
Noreen 02 Feb 01 - 07:20 PM
MARINER 03 Feb 01 - 02:31 AM
GUEST,kiernan@x-stream.co.uk 03 Feb 01 - 07:38 AM
Marion 07 Feb 01 - 11:14 PM
Sorcha 07 Feb 01 - 11:23 PM
Hobie 08 Feb 01 - 12:12 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: When a friend is depressed
From: Thomas K
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:25 PM

I hope someone here can offer some advice.

Somebody very dear to me is feeling very down at the moment. I'm not qualified to know if it's 'depression' in the medical sense or not. In some ways that's unimportant.

I do the obvious stuff like regularly phoning her, inviting her out for days in the country, nice nights out, anything that make her laugh and so on. Sometimes these lift her mood for a while, but a few days later when I phone back, I get the same emptiness and sense of futility as before.

I've tried searching on the web for help, but just end up with pages trying to sell me a book.

If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you,

Thomas


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: sophocleese
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:35 PM

I became depressed when I was in University. It was a good friend of mine who dragged me to a doctor to get me diagnosed and then referred to a psychiatrist. If your friend has been down like this for a while (more than a couple of weeks) then it could well be depression and supporting her in getting outside help would be helpful. If that is difficult for you to do simply maintaining the friendship in the way that you have is still helpful as she will know that she is not alone. Depression can take a long time to come out of so patience is a useful virtue. I hope she gets better.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:36 PM

Get her to see a doctor. I'm serious. Drive her to yours if you have to. Find one that can make the diagnosis of depression (if that's what it is) -- some doctors don't feel confident enough to diagnose behavioral illness. And make sure it's someone who has worked with antidepressant therapy and knows what works and what doesn't and on whom.

Untreated depression is the #1 cause of suicide in the US&A (and probably similarly high elsewhere). Treatment for clinical depression is safe and effective these days.

I know, I are one.

Alex
O..O
=o=


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:41 PM

Thomas.......Feeling low for a day or two happens, but prolonged feelings of emptiness and futility are indeed signs of Clinical Depression. Many times the "victim" thinks they just have to "suck it up" and DO IT!! Sadly, that is not going to help anymore than a day in the country. CD is caused through chemical imbalances and can be treated with drugs. I know a lot of people who think the drugs are a cop out, but in true CD, they can change the balance to allow the person to see things as they are and to cope through good decision making, etc.

Your friend needs to seek professional help and the most difficult task of the ones around her may be to get her to do that. None of us are capable of making those diagnosis. There are other medical problems that will also bring on the imbalances, so getting a scrip for Luvox isn't the answer either. Encourage your friend to go first to a medical doctor for a complete check-up and be sure she is truthful with the doc about how she feels. He will probably make other recommendations from there.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:43 PM

Three posts...5 minutes....All saying the same thing.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:43 PM

Thomas, doing what you are doing is huge. And if she cooperates with you in it, and is willing to keep seeing you each time you suggest it, then you are doing much more than it probably seems.

A large part of helping is about knowing somehow what is just the right amount of attention, the right speed of interaction, the right level of energy-- the gift og being able to REACH the person without overwhelming them. It sounds like you have that part down pretty well.

You can be more relaxed and therefore more effective if you can make up your mind not to take responsibility for either her depression or her reeovery. It's hers. And if you seem to own a piece of it, you diminish something that is central to her state of being and her recovery from it.

You also can model taking really good care of yourself. Let her see how you put your wellbeing first, or however high you do put it. That will draw her in that direction. Telling her what to do will probably send her the other way.

I do have a really good book on this, the best I have ever seen, by a woman who used spiritual healing for her own recovery and went on to help many others with her warm and realistic words. It includes prayer for not only whatever is happening now, but also for the healing of old memories. And even depressions caused by brain chem imbalances do have a component of past memories, because these often become the content of the depression or the feelings of guilt over it. PM me or ask me to say more here if this sounds right for your friend.

And tears. If you are relaxed about being a shoulder to absorb them they will flow, and they will be a healing sort. You will know they were that kind if you allow them for as long as they flow, and see them followed by laughter or yawning or both, somtimes with angry tones of voice in between there too. For more on that way of helping, as a non-professional who simply adds his attention to her own natural healing process, see:

www.rc.org

There are a ot of ways to hel a person be in prsent-time with their attention out of the soup. pointing her awareness to things in the environment can help. Sit her in the sun and let her soak it up a bit, stuff like that.

Finally, ASK her what she needs, and believe her. It may seem dependent or wierd, or way off base in some other way. But if you honor her best sese of what she needs, she will know what that is, and say it as clearly as she can, and adjust as she goes as her needs change. Don't be scared either. If she says she needs some implement of destruction, be playful about maybe supplying it. She may just need to get to some black humor and dig that deep to laugh. (Don't actually give her one though!! Give her a toy one! Play!!!)

~S~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:45 PM

I have mixed feelings about the "professional help" route, because I think that the medical community is far too hooked on using drugs to treat depression...but if you connect with the right doctor or counselor it can be very helpful.

One thing about depression...it isn't necessarily always "bad"...sometimes it is a natural phase, a signal that it is time to reasess one's life, and begin a new phase. Sometimes it is an indication that one needs a break, a rest, some time to heal from emotional wounds and built-up stress.

Looking back on my own lengthy periods of depression, I would say that they all arose essentially from the feeling that I was POWERLESS, in the face of life, and in the face of other people, and that I had no idea what to do about it.

If you can find a health practitioner who, instead of drugging your friend, can instill in her some sense of self-worth and self-empowerment...then a cure is well on the way.

Good luck.

LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:46 PM

Hi Thomas

Your friend is lucky that you persevere - lots of people get disheartened and move away from someone in that situation.

When I experienced severe depression it took me a long time to some out of it. Even though I was often unable to respond 'happily' to the few friends that stuck around, I appreciated it at the time (beyond words) and will never forget their kindness and persistence.

It sounds as though you're doing good things. When one is depressed it helps to talk, and talk about the experience. Although it is sometimes difficult and often impossible to open up.

Is there anything that your friend is/was passionate about? Can you suggest some things to her that she might get excited about and distract her (in the short term, then perhaps at a deeper level) from the depression? Her motivation will probably be down. It's a chicken and egg - a sense of futility leads to depression and vice versa.

Can she get professional help? I don't underestimate the power of medication. A lot of people rubbish anti-depressants ( I even heard a work colleague once declare "if there was a little more love in the world, people wouldn't be on anti-depressants". CRINGE!). Don't forget though that depression is a mental ILLNESS and can lead to extremely harmful behaviour if untreated. A school friend who was severely depressed was staying with her sister who was extremely religious. She (stupidly) told my firend to stop taking the drugs because they were bad for her and god would look after her. A week later my friend jumped off the roof of a carpark and is with us no longer. All this to say that medication could have saved her life.

Most importantly, I hope you take the time to find the support YOU need. I know how tedious it can become trying to support someone with depression, and how easy it is to be dragged down with them.

Good luck Thomas!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: skarpi
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:47 PM

Hallo Thomas, be there for her and aske her to see a good doctor, there can be many reasons for her feelings. Try to listen to her, if she wants to talk maybe her draw is full(meaning: full of bad emotional feelings witch are starting to flow out) I am no doctor and I am having my self a bad times these days but dont give up on her stay with her all the time. Wish I could do more, hope that she will get better All the best skarpi Iceland.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Yes, get her professional help
From: GUEST,DocJohn
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:49 PM

she needs help and a cheering up isn't the solution. It's a help, it's a bandaid on the problem, but it sounds like she needs strong medicine(not necessarily meaning drugs.)

John


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:56 PM

Tomorrow (Thursday, Oct. 5) is National Depression Screening Day (United States). Participants fill out a short, multiple-choice test which is then scored by a professional. The test will indicate if the person may have symptoms of depression; if so, they will be referred to more resources for help.

You can call 1-800-573-4433 to find out if there are any screening sites near you. All testing and results are confidential.

Untreated clinical depression can be very serious - often the hardest part is taking the first step to get help.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:04 PM

WHOA UP!!!

Those of you who think drugs are a crutch and that love conquers all have never had or lived with someone who has Clinical Depression. I would like to hear more from Alex, but from my own standpoint dealing with foster care and with my wife, I can tell you that we would have lost several were it not for the aid of pros.

There are medical disorders such as thyroid problems which will also trigger the imbalances and unless you have a thorough physical and some serious help, you don't know what you are dealing with!

I repeat my previous post......See a good doctor and start from there. If drugs are needed, they are to treat the imbalance and not solve the problems. Without them, many people cannot even see a way out and no decision looks good....its all hopeless. Drugs such as Luvox can make a world of difference in getting the person functional enough to accept the love and support you offer.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:06 PM

Whoa up, everybody!

I've made a separate thread where we can argue the pro's and con's of antidepressant therapy without taking over this thread, which after all should be about Thomas K's friend.

Thoughts and prayers, Thomas.

NEW THREAD HERE.

Alex
O..O
=o=


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Thomas K
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:08 PM

Thank you everyone for your help, and so quickly!

If I can pick one thing out, I'd like to say a special thank you to Skarpi: "I am having myself a bad times these days but dont give up on her stay with her all the time"

I intend doing that for as long as it takes. Thank you Skarpi.

I will try to get her to see a doctor, but it may be difficult.

In the meantime, does anyone have any suggestions as to what to say when I just get silence at the end of the phone?

Feeling helpless is the worst bit.

Thomas


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:14 PM

Try telling her the truth and see if she'll open up with it in return. Be obnoxious and force the issue of the doc. Read up on Suicide Prevention.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:15 PM

Little Hawk,
I rarely get angry but you have pushed ALL of my buttons! If Thomas' friend were diabetic would you jump to criticize the doctor who prescribed insulin? Well guess what? Clinical depression is an illness caused by seratonin imbalance. It too is remedied by prescription drugs.
I am not suggesting stupifying someone who is has had a bad day. But to belittle anti-depressives is the equivalent of recommending suicide as a more socially acceptable alternative. I have had to deal with this problem with members of my family. A sixteen year old, who couldn't "suck it up" anymore, jumped from the roof of her home and spent a year in a full body cast. She will probably never be able to have children. A brother got help only after losing his job, writing a suicide note, and nearly destroying his family.
Thomas, as has already been recommended, if your friend has been down for more a few weeks, be her best friend and insist that she see a doctor.
Mary, who turned her life around with Prozac and a few years of therapy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM

Thanks Sins. (You pushed my buttons too LH)

See what I mean Thomas? GET HER HELP. Make it your chief focus. It won't be easy, but the end result is worth every word and every moment. Keep trying. Don't give up. If it is CD, its a disease. Treat it as such and make sure she sees it that way too.

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Marion
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM

One thing that should be pointed out is that although clinical depression is a disease, having biochemical roots and often responding to biochemical treatment, depression is often triggered by some external event: bereavement, a breakup, unemployment, an injury, or some other loss. For this reason, the depressed person may not think that the depression is a disease, but rather the result of the external loss.

Last year I had to put down my fiddle and guitar for six months because of a hand injury. However, I didn't only stop playing music, I also stopped watering my plants, going to church, following my diet, brushing my teeth, getting out of bed before 11... and in the place of all these important things I spent an awful lot of time lying on the floor crying, or sitting on the couch staring at the wall, for hours on end. Although I never considered suicide a real option I did fantasize about it plenty and really wished that I was dead.

Losing the ability to do what you love most, even if it isn't a permanent loss, is a serious loss and it's normal to mourn it. What I went through was not normal mourning. Looking back now, I had a textbook case of clinical depression. But at the time, because my depression was triggered by the hand injury, I totally believed that my unhappiness was all about mourning my music and didn't consider seeking medical attention.

So in terms of advice, Thomas: if your friend has suffered an external loss lately, she may be reluctant to see a doctor because she believes that her unhappiness is caused by the loss and that getting the lover/job/music/whatever back is the only way out. If that's the case, you may need to help her to see that she's gone beyond normal mourning, and that a trigger is different from a cause.

As Little Hawk said, there can be a little good to be found even in something like depression; my good was that I learned a lot about who my friends are, and what friends they are. It may be that the concern and faithfulness you are showing are literally keeping her alive. So thank you, and God be with you both.

Love, Marion


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:31 PM

The silence on the other end of the phone is hard to deal with, I know. First off, you have to keep saying "are you still there?" every now and then to make sure they're really still there and you're not just talking to a dead connection. Maybe you could just sing softly -- if you think she would like that.

wracking his brain,
Alex
O..O
=o=


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Marion
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:43 PM

If you don't know what to say on the phone, saying nothing can still be good. If you spend phone time just silently listening to each other breathe, you're demonstrating that she's worth "wasting time on". If she wanted to, she could end the phone call when she didn't have anything to say; the fact that she's staying on the line with you silent shows that she wants your company.

Marion


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:44 PM

A brother in law of mine is gone because of cd. Looking back, I can see the signs of it from the time he was 9 years old. At his death, he was being treated but they never did find the right balance.

Has anyone here read the writer, William Styron's book, Dark (something)? I can't quite recall the title but it is a vivid, very graphic, account of his plunge into depression and his tentative climb out with the aid of chemical balancing. Well worth reading.

Ebbie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:46 PM

Mary and Pat ... I'm not going to say anything, but you know my story. I just wanted you to know that I'm reading this thread, hanging onto my buttons, and sending you my support.

jenny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Thomas K
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 06:58 PM

Marion,

You've said something completely obvious, but I was too stupid to understand.

After a bit of silence, I don't like it, and tend towards 'OK, Bye then.'

I'll try to learn how to listen to silence a bit better.

Thank you again to everyone who has contributed here. Whether you realise it or not, you've all been a big help.

Thomas


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 07:29 PM

If you feel like you're in over your head YOU ARE. It's time to call in the professionals.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 07:37 PM

OK, a lot of buttons have been pushed here. Take a breath. Take another. Past the fear of whatever YOU experienced. I know you learned a lot then. I am sorry fear is recorded along with that.

But this is now. These are people who have a unique situation to think about, just like you did, and they have to make their own solutions, just like you did.

Thomas, what do you think you should do? What does your heart tell you, that you are not fully hearing?

~S~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:17 PM

Speaking as one who has considered suicide as the only viable option get her some professional help. I'm not out of the woods yet but life is sweet.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:35 PM

I have a friend who has to fight a running battle with depression. When she's having a really bad time, it makes my life a kind of hell, too. But what's worked has been persistence. I just keep being there. I send balloons sometimes. I make sure she eats something.

What I haven't been able to do is get her to go to a physician for a thorough physical. (No insurance.) She has allergies (which can be severe), TMJ, and other symptoms that mean that she spends a good deal of her day in pain. My own depressive fits are strongly tied to my physical well-being, and I'm pretty sure that she's worst off mentally when she's bad off physically. (_I_ notice the pain lines on her face and suggest tylenol before she notices that she's hurting.)

If you don't want to buy the books on the 'net, go borrow them from your local library. Read widely. Read people who disagree with each other. It makes a difference to your well being when you can recognize that your friend is rejecting your company because they feel unworthy of being loved and not because you're an awful person.

You might want to investigate bioneurofeedback. I have no personal experience with it, but I've heard good reports from some fellow librarians.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:54 PM

No professional advice from me, not even some godd advice, just what I was longing for in my own bad times:

Simply don't leave her(/him)! Sounds cheap, but it is extremely difficult to really do so. Take her in your arms and hold her (be careful when you do it physically!!! - if she's female she might take it as the opposite, if he's male...) Never ever give her the least impression that you want to get rid of her (e.g. to a doctor - ouch! - I don't want to say that a doctor is bad, the problem is telling it to her without - my dictionary says: 'repudiate' - her in her view). Be 'strong', and from that position of strength tell her that she's still all right. At least beware of the opposite.

Good luck

Joerg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 03:36 PM

Ebbie, William Styron's book is Darkness Visible. Its a good read about one person's struggle with severe depression. It did knock me back though a bit because although depressed I wasn't THAT bad and therefore I didn't seek help sooner.

Yes Joerg, when taking a friend to the doctor don't make it seem as if you're saying "Well thank god you're finally here, now I can get on with my life."

I lost my old bookmarks but I used to have a link to a questionaire to find out of you have depression. You could look for something like that, inspect it yourself first, and then perhaps if your friend is visiting you and she can go through it and see what results you come up with. It might help her to see that she needs more assistance in this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:26 PM

Thomas, I've been where you are and it's hard, but never give up. Know that every minute you spend is always worth it, and every word you say means something to her, although she may not be listening, at least she knows you're talking. Read her stories on the phone, sing her songs, listen sit there with her. Things that say, I'm not going anywhere, and I'm not leaving you alone.

Spaw and SINSULL, I really understand what you're saying, and where you're coming from, but don't be too quick to dismiss all other methods. I've had more friends than I can count diagnosed with Clinical Depression, or even Manic Depression, and I've seen them drugged and I've seent hem not. Many of them hated the drugs, they said they felt as if someone else were living in their head, making them be happy even though they couldn't feel it, like they had been severed from their emotions entirely. Maybe it was a bad prescription. But I've nursed others through periods without prescriptions my own way, and they said they came out better in the end. It wasn't easy, and it wasn't always nice - it involved God, and love, and trust, a whole lot of badgering, and arguing, and hugging, lots of stories and songs, lots of time and patience. I would make them move if they were too apathetic, force them to anger rather than to depression, badger them until they cared about SOMETHING, anything. I made them work, I talked to them until they couldn't cry anymore, and I told them through it all I wouldn't leave, I would always be there, and for those that would hear it, I told them so would God.

It didn't always work, but more often than not, and I watched carefully to find out when I was losing the battle, when it was time to change tack, and when it was time to call the hospital for a few days in. I'll always remember those times, and so will they.

Good luck, Thomas. You're not alone, and thanks to you, neither is she.

-Jessica


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 10:41 PM

sophocleese - 'taking a friend to the doctor', who (the friend, not the doctor) is in some trouble like that is the problem, not what you do when you did it. It seems to me that it is not quite understood what kind of trouble that is.

To tell it very simply, from the victims point of view:

I am frightened. Don't try to see my knees shivering or look for cold sweat on my face: This kind of fear isn't that easy to catch. I am e.g. afraid of looking at all those people who feel better than me, i.e. who feel to be better than me and certainly this makes them better than me because if I could feel at all it would be easy to feel as good and this would make me as good and then there would be no reason of being frightened. But I can't feel anything any more and therefore there is some quite good reason for being frightened, and I also know that being afraid of dangerous things is a dangerous way of handling them, so there is also some good reason to believe that being frightened is not that stupid.

But there are you. Obviously you like me. Don't you see, that I'm not fit any more to face anything I see (except you, maybe) - i.e. that I'm not fit for anything? Or do you see something good I just can't see when I look at myself? Might there be something that makes me fit at least in your eyes? This would be enough: You have to multiply zero by an infinite quantity to make one of it, from that point of view there is no difference between one and hundred. Might there be hope? That depends on who is smarter - you or I. Is there something I can't see so you are right of standing by me? Or are you just too stupid to really realize how bad my trouble is? Is there hope or not?

And now you tell me that you don't even feel able to cope at least with the fact that I'm in trouble. Remember, the question was: Might you know some way TO OVERCOME, some way I just can't see? But now you tell me that you are much more stupid than I ever realized, how could I ever have thought you to be smarter than me? Click! Of course I (capital capital I) am right - NO hope.

And therefore I'm frightened.

Is there any inconsistency in this argumentation?

---------

Yes, sophocleese, I also once read such a questionnaire and I also can't find it that quickly. It sounded like "If you can answer two of the following questions with yes..." It didn't seem stupid to me, from my point of view, but I know what the problem is (at least I think so). On the other hand it was only some hint for somebody who does not know that to decide if there is a problem or not. It was no hint for what to do if so.

Thomas - if her trouble is what it seems to be YOU can help her: If you like her, 'simply' (fnarr, fnarr - but no joke intended at all) continue AND DON'T GIVE UP!!! Be extremely careful with doing anything else. If you believe in doctors, drugs or God (these are different things, I'm not with Lenin) first use them on yourself, if necessary. SHE needs some protection from everything but being considered good enough by at least one human being in this universe. And she can't do that job herself at the moment.

Another way to tell it, hope it doesn't confuse you: Don't show her that her trouble is a problem for you. It is a problem for her and she can't solve it. But in her own eyes YOU are better than SHE is. Now, if YOU fail to solve the (much smaller) problem arising for you, who is not in trouble at all... Ouch!

Love and - yes! - understanding.

Joerg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: hesperis
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM

Make sure the doctor gives her a complete physical.
Several medical conditions can give the symptoms of depression, or make the depression worse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,guest still
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:32 AM

the 'change of life' can bring the depression from hell on it's heels. If she is at that age, talking and being with her won't cure it. Been there too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 09:17 AM

ThomasK, how is your friend today? We are all worrying with you. Perhaps print out this thread and mail it to her?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: little john cameron
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:30 PM

I just got back from a trip so i am a bit behind on this one. After i was released from the hospital about a month or so i started to feel terrible.No energy,various pains that moved around,just about everything you can imagine i had it.Iwas checked out on every machine in the hospital and they couldn;t find anything wrong.Finally i was referred to a pschiatrist.She said she thought i was probably depressed and should come into the ward. No, says i now that i know what it is i'll be able to handle it.I gadually got worse.Moaning and groaning and driving everyone nuts. One day i got in such a state that i called her and she got me in right away. Lying in the bed sleeping all the time,crying,couldn't be bothered eating and all the time the mysterious pains.

She put me on Zoloft as the diagnoses was panic attacks and depression. After about 3weeks i started to come out of it.Started to talk to the other patients and walk around a bit.The attacks still came and went at random but gradually became managable.

Iam ok now but have to keep taking Zoloft every day or they come back.

It was quite a trip i can tell you. Little Hawk is right about the lack of serotonin.This came about by a stroke i had which in turn caused an upset in the balance in my brain. It is a "Fight or flight"thing that happens and my body gets ready to do something about it but there is no danger,so it doesn't know what to do and the result is these panic attacks.The danger is in my head but nevertheless seems real to me. When the brain starts to pump out adrenalin and there is no fight it doesn't know that and keeps going.

Anyway,the answer is to get help as soon as possible as it will only get worse.

There is also information on the net about depression and stress . GET HELP!!! You can't do it alone. I KNOW!! LJC


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 10:14 PM

Mrrzy - telling the victim of having told somebody else about the problem is extremely dangerous - although there might be some small chance that it will help. But this chance is that small and the danger of making her refuse the help she is about to get (see LJC's message just after yours) e.g. FROM ME right now is that - what's the correct word? - great, big, high... For myself I wouldn't even dare to tell anybody about it: WHAT IF SHE FINDS OUT THAT I DID ?!?!?! - Our feelings won't help her at all; from our point of view they are honest, but to her they are just "feelings". When I'm in some trouble I'm ashamed of (! - I think that this is kind of a key) I don't need any people who loudly lament because of this but somebody who can help me to get out of it WHILE KEEPING HIS MOUTH SHUT.

Poor Thomas - I really don't know whether I should worry more with you or for you.

LJC - to get out of my own trouble only took me about three weeks of not knowing whether I was going to live or die, thus finding out what is important and what isn't, AND experiencing the reactions of some people that were important from this new point of view: Said reactions as well as said people after having experienced their reactions. I got help. It was given to me without any need of asking for it (!!!) Besides, I wouldn't have been able to ask for it, because I didn't know what kind of help would be that important. Moreover - those important people certainly still don't know how important their help was because I still don't know the words to really tell it to them. But I got their help in spite of all that (!!!!!)

My own job (difficult enough) was only to notice it. I did ... I DID IT! And I still do, believe me or not.

Do I have to thank you, LJC, for kicking my balls by reminding me of the fact that there are people who aren't that lucky? I almost think so. Would you believe me if I told you that I'm with you?

And still there is so much more to say...

Joerg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 12:58 AM

This is such a wonderful community. I am constantly amazed at how we all share and open ourselves and our lives to one another, esp. if we think it may help in some way.

I find this on the net:

In diagnosing clinical depression, health professionals use the following list of symptoms as a guide. Keep in mind, any diagnosis of depression must be made by a qualified physician, therapist, or other health professional. Nearly everyone suffering from depression has pervasive feelings of sadness. In addition, depressed people may feel helpless, hopeless, and irritable. You should seek professional help if you or someone you know has had four or more of the following symptoms continually or most of the time for more than two weeks:

Loss of interest and pleasure in activities formerly enjoyed.
Noticeable change of appetite, with either significant weight loss not attributable to dieting or weight gain.
Noticeable change in sleeping patterns, such as fitful sleep, inability to sleep, early morning awakening, or sleeping too much.
Loss of energy, fatigue.
Feelings of worthlessness.
Persistent feelings of hopelessness.
Feelings of inappropriate guilt.
Inability to concentrate or think, indecisiveness.
Melancholia (defined as overwhelming feelings of sadness and grief) accompanied by waking at least two hours earlier than normal in the morning, feeling more depressed in the morning, and moving significantly more slowly.
Disturbed thinking, a symptom developed by some severely depressed persons. For example, severely depressed people sometimes have beliefs not based in reality about physical disease, sinfulness, or poverty.
Physical symptoms, such as headaches or stomachaches.
Recurring thoughts of death or suicide, wishing to die, or attempting suicide. (Note: People suffering this symptom should receive treatment immediately!)

Adapted from American Psychiatric Association, www.psych.org, Let's Talk Facts pamphlet series, Depression (revised 1997)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,ShadowMonk
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 12:09 PM

Alright Thomas, I know the last thing needed on this thread is another opinion, but here's what I have to offer.

So far I have seen a lot of really good advice. The trouble is that there's no "right" answer all the time, just the one that works.

My suggestion is to take your friend to a doctor. It's true, the medical community is a little too caught up on drugs, but that may be what your friend needs. However, ask them to use medication as a last resort. It's true that other things can help. A strong friendship where you support your friend may be all it takes. It seems to me that you have already provided this, and though it's a wonderful thing, it's not working fully. Therapy may do the trick. A good councilor can accomplish more then some drugs. Then again, if it's a chemical imbalance, which isn't always the case but could be, then medication could be nessesary.

It all depends on the precise situation your friend is in. My advice is to take your friend to a doctor (one who feels comfortable, yet not overzealous in making mental health referals), and get a professional opinion. Just make it known that unless it's a biological problem, medication should be avoided, but not entirly shunned.

You've gotten lots of advice so far, and mine probably isn't the best, but it's how I feel about the situation. Read al the posts and see what feels right to you, AND what your friend feels is the best course of action.

Hope you find something that works.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: natasha
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 05:09 PM

Your freind condition might be stimulated for a perticular reason if you know this reason you can help.

One way my freinds help pick me up is to take me out for a drink or in times of desperation they have been known to flash me, try it it will make things seem less significant trust me If they enjoy it, it should bring them out of their hole


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 10:34 PM

kat/katlaughing - mhmmm, not the best list of symptoms I know, but all right to start with. But may I add a comment which I believe to be very important:

This list was obviously set up by somebody who was only referring to the less dangerous kinds of that problem (BTW, did you notice me avoiding words like 'depression' or even 'clinical'?) It may become harder, much harder, and that may happen to everybody of us much faster that anyone is able to notice when it happens to him. And once it becomes just a little harder than the one who set up said list was thinking, 'seeking professional help' is no longer an option for you, being "taken to the doctor" is something you will be especially afraid of, and if this is done by someone who might have been able to help you - because you felt you could still rely on him - a catastrophy will happen. And if he was the last one you thought you could rely on, that catastrophy will be of the BAD kind. (Did you know that there are good catastrophies? If not you never experienced a bad one.)

This problem is - at the same time! - much too easy and much too difficult to be overcome. Easy, because it only resides inside of you - 'simply' forget about it and it's gone. Difficult because forgetting isn't easy at all, and this problem must be forgotten not only by the one who suffers from it but also by everbody else! (Now tell me the doctor who dares to think of curing some disease by forgetting it.) Forgetting in this special case is even harder as NOBODY knows WHAT EXACTLY must be forgotten.

Oh yes - every problem has its reasons. But when you begin to suffer from this one its reasons are mostly no longer present; the problem exists by itself. Don't think of solving the problem by eliminating its reasons.

So helping somebody is 'easy': just do exactly the right kind of nothing ACTIVELY with all your strength. First use your biggest brains and your biggest heart to find out what you must never, never know. And then let him know that he can rely on you not knowing it WITHOUT reminding him of it when you tell it to him. Finally keep that promise you never were allowed to make by never, never thinking of what you know you are not allowed to know while allowing him to read your mind.

'Easy'? 'Easy'.

Joerg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 10:43 PM

P.S.: Very reasonable advice, natasha. Seriously.

Joerg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Marion
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 02:03 PM

I am refreshing this because I thought it was timely. Also, Thomas, if you're around, I'm wondering what has happened with your friend in the past months.

Marion


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 02:35 PM

Hi All - As some of you know I am a Psychiatric Social Worker. Professional help is indicated with conditions such as these. Medication is part of this assistance, counseling is another part. The counseling ensures medication compliance and efficacy. If there are underlying issues presenting then the clinician can facilitate resolution of those issues.
I also believe that there are four parts to a human being.
1-physiological (medication, exercise, etc.);
2-Emotive (issues of the heart - this includes tears as there is an enzyme in tears that are associated with stress and proven relief after shedding them);
3-Psychological (the fine art of communication - breaking the tape in the head so the words can run out of the mouth);
4-Spiritual (and I am not talking about church - I am talking about Hope and the sense of belonging and being needed in one's community). Each of us is unique and each of us requires specialized "touches" in each of these areas to come out of the depression. It also takes time. Depression does not appear overnight and it does not alleviate in that time frame either. It takes a minimum of three weeks simply for the medication to begin its work. I also struggle with this issue and utilize all four parts to maintain my balance. My best friend is fortunatley my wife - and she has made all the difference
This is "cabin fever" time and I hope anyone who is struggling with this gets the assistance they need.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 05:29 PM

Thank you very much, Norton1. Good things to keep in mind when dealing with a family member of mine.

kat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 07:20 PM

Marion- I was thinking of refreshing this too, to find out how Thomas and friend are doing...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: MARINER
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 02:31 AM

As many of the posters here seem to have some experience of dealing with depression, perhaps you could advise me. I have a friend who has become totally paranoid. He thinks he's being followed by police and customs squads.According to him they've taken over his neighbours house and mounted surveilence cameras on him.He's got to the state where he has thrown me and another friend(seperately ) ouy of his house for broaching the subject.There is no reason why he should be under observation, his family (he lives alone)have made inquiries with the authorities who say that he is "not known to them ". Yet he just will not believe them and gets worse. He has suffered a bereavement in the last 12 months. Is this depression? and how do you get someone to go to a doctor if they believe there's nothing wrong and that they are being followed and under 24 hour observation. Sorry for going on and invading another thread but I'm very worried about my mate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: GUEST,kiernan@x-stream.co.uk
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 07:38 AM

Mariner - though it is impossible to diagnose from a brief description like that (and Im not qualified anyway), I will say that it sounds like your friend does need some help. Paranoia can be a symptom of depression, but is usually accompanied by more of the other recognisable signs. It can also be a symptom of other mental health problems / illnesses - some of them very serious. If I were you, I would speak to a doctor yourself and see if they can advise you on what to do for the best - ie how to persuade your friend to get help when he thinks there is nothhing wrong with him. And don't be fobbed off. If one doctor can't help, try to speak to another one.

Good luck and keep me up to date?

Bagpuss


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Marion
Date: 07 Feb 01 - 11:14 PM

I don't know how to answer your question, Mariner, but I am refreshing again in the hopes that more will get a chance to see it.

God be with you, Marion


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Feb 01 - 11:23 PM

It is indeed Cabin Fever Time, and Depression Hits BigTime time......Mariner, bagpuss has it. Talk to your doctor, or therapist---this problem can turn into serious stuff, like shooting the neighbors, etc. I doubt there is anything you can do, s/he will just think you are part of the conspiracy, and that would not be good.

Unfortunately, there is not really much that can be done until your friend is proved a "danger to himself or others".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: When a friend is depressed
From: Hobie
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 12:12 AM

Point-It can be "sucked up" and "dealt with", but speaking from personel experiences, I wouldn't recommend it.

2 cents

Hobie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 25 February 5:53 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.