BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:14 PM

The top single of 1982 was "Africa" by TOTO, one of the greatest songs ever written. Gorgeous word painting "As sure as Kilamanjaro rises like an emperess over the Serengeti" and though I WAS around then, I was not listening to the radio at age 3. It's one of the few songs my entire family loves...and WHY? Because *I* introduced it to them 2 years ago, when I discovered it. Hmmm...taking something forgotten or never-heard before and exposing it to a new audience who instantly loves it...sounds a lot like folk to me.

And I would have to disagree about folkies smarter or more intelligent than lovers of other kinds of music. Folk just LOVES those long drawn out story songs. Rock/pop does not. I'm taking a photography class, and our teacher said the ONE mistake photographers make is to take a photo of something obvious. A picture of a field with some trees in the background, say. YAWN. We know instantly what it is...NEXT! The BEST compositions are when you have to sit and THINK about what it is...to get the grey cells going. They are the ones that people will enjoy more. Recently we had a huge thread trying to interpret "Don't Think Twice" by Dylan. WHY? Because Dylan doesn't give us the whole story...he makes you think and try to interpret. Some "diddle-iddle-aye" song just ain't gonna do it. So, now you all know that folk music is artistically JEJEUNE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 10:13 AM

I used to move around a lot, and would finally meet up with other folkies shortly before I left an area. That changed with the internet. I had contact with people before I moved there.

With regard to folkies in general, we have a lot of suspicion towards mass-marketed anything. An attempt to get us interested in anything simply because a lot of people like it, will often have the opposite effect. People know what they like, and others are better off leaving them alone to like it. Forget categories as big as "folk" and "pop." I have friends who hate parodies. I have friends who think women have no business singing sea shanties. I have friends who won't go near any song with a known author. We're still friends, because we don't try to shove our opinions down one another's throats. We're pretty good at "live and let live" as long as no one tries to push their ideas on us and tell us we HAVE to like what they like. That's why the pop fans can get a lot of flak from us, IMO. They sometimes push.

People would be surprised at how many folkies they would find if they looked. I've found big enough groups for a jam on military bases. There was an on-going Irish session in Seoul, South Korea. (Never made it to that session, though.) Somebody puts an ad in the local paper, a notice on the internet, a poster in a local shop, and people come out of the woodwork. The only place I had real difficulty finding anyone to play/sing with was in Indiana. Three and a half years of no-session hell...

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GUEST,A Certain Picker of Gospel
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 09:40 AM

I didn't mean that we should not like pop music... Geez, is Mbo a little sensitive? I just mean that it takes a certain amount of brains to appreciate a music and a culture that have so little, if anything, to do with the mainstream of commercial culture... All I meant was that the "average" kiddie-pop fan has no interest in the world around them to any great degree... it's because the typical bubblegum garbage they are fed on the radio is designed to meet those "right here, right now, gimme" urges... just like an action figure from a movie... "Be the first on your BLOCK"... Folk is a culture where it MATTERS that 600 years ago, 'ol Someone McSomebody floated over the sea... If you are offended by the idea that folk takes brains and MOST (I said MOST) pop does not, try asking yourself why you care about McSomebody the sailor from eons ago but yet the top selling single of 1982 was... (and NO FAIR ANSWERING IF YOU WERE AROUND THEN) my point is that there's an obvious reason why folkies have lasted... it takes a litte more upstairs to be a folkie... sorry, just my opinion, but I believe it does.

GospelPicker

@:()>[+]

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 09:17 AM

I think there are folkies nearly everywhere - lots of 'em. One reason that they (we) aren't more obvious in some areas is that many have not been invited to come out of the closet and to meet with other folkies. This process usually involves the need for someone to break the ice and to actually organize some sort of regular get-togethers. I am certain that the members of the Folklore Society of Greater Washinton, (FSGW,) could tell wonderful stories of their humble beginnings. Likewise, the Oklahoma City Traditional Music Association, (OCTMA,) could do the same. In regard to the latter, I think many of us would be surprised to know the huge number of people who attend the monthly meetings, (I know I was!). Those meetings are very much like the Getaway except that they happen on the first Saturday of each and every month!

Clearly, I was impressed by OCTMA's accomplishments. They have created something to which folkies are willing to drive for miles and miles.

The FSGW's monthly singarounds and workshops are well attended also. I truly enjoyed attending one of the singarounds a few months back.

These two groups (and many others in the USA as well as elsewhere) gave me hope that other such groups could grow to similar proportions.

You can create your own "concentration of folkies". The only way I see to make things happen is to "go public". If you want to meet with other folkies and there isn't an established group nearby, I strongly advocate that you consider starting one. You have to realize that these things did not START big. Usually they began with as few as three or four people who met each month in someone's livingroom or in a local restaurant or pub or cabinetmaker's shop after hours. Give it a try! Post a notice at the local music store or performance venue. You can make it happen. I know that I plan to give it a try whenever I return to my own home.

Allan C.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:47 AM

Until some forward thinking people started a celtic festival I wouldn't have said there was any real interest in folk music around here. A handfull of folks doesn't make a community or society of traditional interest large enough to be noticed or have any selfsustaining power. However, through the festival many people became educated because they were at least interested in supporting a local event, or open-minded enough to try something new (to them). Now those people know and love the tradition and we see them at concerts and other festivals and supporting the lifestyle that goes with it.

I agree that a certain liberalism seems to go with the picture but I wouldn't say it was universal.

There now seems to be ties to the folk communities elsewhere, as if we are exploring as folk missionaries.

There's alot of work to be done however. The local pubs either have no live entertainment or limited live entertainment. Dance mix type programmed pop/disco/rap/karioke/dj stuff still rules the roost in my little community. Only last month was the first celtic jam night in a pub (a monthly thing it is to be), and that was on a Wednesday when I couldn't attend. Once when I asked a pub if they would be interested in folk music they answered that they thought that's what they were doing in hiring a guy with an acoustic guitar, even though the material was pop music.

My point is that if we expect to maintain a folk music "industry", it has to be driven by grassroots activism. Festivals, workshops, schools, retreats, concert promoters, educators, etc.

The individual feeling of isolation can be partly overcome by even one other person willing to share the tradition on a committed and dedicated level. The greater sense of isolation perhaps needs a greater degree of selfpromotion. Either way, if we don't act it won't live.

Our little festival and celtic college has created a folk society of sorts here now, but I'm not so naive to think that they wouldn't die without the prime movers and shakers with the original vision. I hope that won't be the case.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:41 AM

The coast of Maine is pretty active, in a sleepy sort of way. I have a friend in Boston who talks of the scene there and makes it sound pretty frenetic, i.e., something happening every night, people staying out late at clubs, etc. I may not be understanding her completely but it sounds like life in the city to me.

Here on the coast we take things a little slower. We work hard and play easy. Coffeehouses abound. Concerts happen, mostly on weekends, all over the place. Song swaps, open mikes (including special teen oriented chem-free open mikes), house concerts, are all here. But we are usually all done and home by 11:00.

And we have our share of "famous folkies" if such a phrase can be used. Gordon Bok, Anne Dodson, Nick Appolonio, Castlebay, and our own Kendall Morse hail from this state. And we have a very talented group of locally popular performers. People like Jud Caswell, Carter Ruff, Martin Swinger, The Windy Ridge Bluegrass Band, Jerry Blodget, and many, many more.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:09 AM

I have often thought that there are two things that contribute to the existence of a vibrant folk community. The first is being a college town, which tends to provide a lot of the infrastructure and attitude that nurtures folkies (along with a constant influx of new blood). The second is a politically liberal orientation; whatever our personal views, I think most of us would recognize that liberal politics have been a sustaining factor in folk music and folk arts. These are not absolute requirements, but I think they can tip the balance. Boston (where I live), DC, New York (particularly the Village)and San Francisco all fit the profile. Any thoughts on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 04:23 AM

Shepherdstown, West Virginia, which has some very strong connections with where you are, JAB. One of our major event organizers used to organize events for the House of Musical Traditions some years ago, to name just one. There's always something good going on here, and quite a few really fantastic musicians live in this area.

Come on up and check us out some time. (Shepherdstown is where you city people come when you can't take the city anymore. Ask around, you'll see. *G*)

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:55 PM

Mbo, funny how you find so many people who like folk music here, isn't it?

Lots of music around here, but most folks either don't have computers, or haven't figured out where they plug in yet ;-). "Internet" is where the fish are supposed to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: okthen
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:36 PM

p.s.

you don't know how lucky you are.

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: okthen
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:34 PM

i live in a cultural desert there is very little music in my town (clare, suffolk, uk).i do not drive, last 'bus 5pm, it is peaceful tho'. i drink in the local social club, but when i take my cd's down there, they are not appreciated to say the least! i'm talking "new country", if i took martin carthy or kate rusby i'd probably get banned for life. oh well you can lead a.......... cheers bill

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:27 PM

Mbo...*sigh*...for the VERY last time....a LOT of the folkies I know also know and like pop/rock...etc, just as YOU like some folk.....the difference is, they mostly keep the concepts separate and do not DO pop/rock at a folk event....(yes, there are those like me, who spend 90+% of their time in 'folk'....but I am rather the exception)

If you MUST feel persecuted for likeing what you like, be my guest....but it sure seems self-defeating to me...OK....last I will say on the matter

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:19 PM

harpgirl...we ain't no clique......we's a milling throng ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:18 PM

No JAB, I've stopped complaining because I don't care anymore. If Gospelpicker's opinions of pop-loving people like me is any indication, folkies would be the last people I would want to be around--people who seek the elimination of other's music to preserve to continuance of their own. There are words for that. It's called "extermination." And I will have no part of it. I'm going back to learning how to disappear completely.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: radriano
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 05:58 PM

There's a good concentration of folk music enthusiasts in the San Francisco Bay area, by golly.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GospelPicker (inactive)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:26 PM

I think one of the most imprtant factors in the appearance of a folk circle or clique is that for the most part, folk enthusiasts are intelligent and educated enough to know what good music and great history are, but the average folkie is also laid-back enough to get down to pickin' and grinnin' and have a good time with friends... your average top-40 plastic throwaway pop fan doesn't even care about the vibrant history of music; they think a CD that came out 5 years ago is OLD... *sigh*... What's that saying about youth being wasted on the young?

GospelPicker

@:()>[+]

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Bert
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:25 PM

Could this have anything to do with the 'Gravity' thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 02:14 PM

Oops, I should have mentioned Toronto. It sure seems that folk has survived, or never gone away, in Britain to a much greater extent than here in the states. Again, any thoughts on why?

I wasn't trying to brag about the D.C. community, but I've been wondering for some time why folk flourishes in one area and not in another. Why are we able to hold two very vibrant and well attended Sea Shanty sings every month, and in other areas they can't get one started? etc.

Great MBO, I know that you haven't mentioned not being able to find song circles and jams in your area for some time. Does that mean that you have found them, or that you are no longer looking?

JAB

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:56 PM

It does seem to be that way to some degree Jim. As far as the 'Cat goes, you DC'ers have some serious competition from the group at the Jug with Bill Sables and crew, and also from the Toronto bunch.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:52 PM

Hey Bunch! I envy your location: right in the middle of the Maryland/WashingtonDC folk clique!!!!!*wink* harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:50 PM

I'm not complaining anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:45 PM

Yes Dave,

Manchester too - loads of folkies but few 'catters (or they keep quiet about it)

Not many people have access to computers though - but that's changing rapidly.

Cheers,

Catrin

P.S. BTW I really like the way you sign your name (yours aye)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:36 PM

Halifax/Bedford/Dartmouth has a large number of Folk music groups and fans (Nova Scotia in general) Pixie, Den, George Seto and myself are the only known Mudcatters though. Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: Catrin
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:33 PM

Manchester UK is BRILLIANT! I can go out and hear folk music any night of the week (O to have the time and energy!)

Cheers,

Catrin

Subject: Concentrations of Folkies-Why
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:30 PM

I have the great good fortune to live in the Washington D.C. area where there is an abundance of folk enthusiasts and related activity. In fact, I live in Silver Spring about a mile north of what I like to call the folk epi-center of North America (Bob Clayton, Jennifer Woods, Judy Oppenhiem, Neil Walters, Lisa Null, Charlie Baum, and others) all live withing walking distance of one another. Bill D and Ferrara live within a 5 minute drive. Chance Shiver (Fortunato) lives directly behind me!

I know other folkie concentrations exist in Seattle, Boston, Chicago ?, Philadelphia, and Ann Arbor.

MBO complains that there is no folk life in his area.

Are there other vibrant folk communities and concentraions of folk activities out there? Why did they develop and survive (beyond the 60's) in some areas and not others? Do you feel that you are isolated geographically from other folkies? Any ideas on how new "epi-centers" can be created?

JAB