Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Oct 00 - 01:07 AM

aawake-- that must be the post-service state of non-wakefulness common among the clergyfolk.

greenfields, I have words for some spirituals in a Gospel Singer's Wordbook, and have seen some more books at music stores, but have not seen a lot of recorded stuff. If an answer is not forthcoming in this thread in the next day or two, you might try starting a thread specifically asking your question, such as Help: Source for CDs, Spirituals.

Or-- if you find a source, do come back and share it here! Or in a thread of its own. Assuming you purchase bigtime, my step-daughter will then wish to move in with you-- she loves them and I do too. (We are keeping her, :~) so you'll have to move here!)

Also I hope you checked out the Digital Tradition database that is part of this site-- the blue box on the top of the Forum page.

WELCOME TO MUDCAT!

~Susan

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Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Oct 00 - 12:49 AM

Hardiman the Fiddler says (drowsy after much hard work and our Saturday service and then fiddling a tune at a swing dance).... honey, did they post St. Catherine's Court? And begins to hum it, then sings it from some storehouse of litugical memory....

A tape of one of our services to anyone who finds a link to it. If none, he will post words-- tomorrow! If he is aawake after church!

(I been to cyber hymnal and other links posted here already, but might have missed it-- tired too!)

Service tonight-- a BLAST!!!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: greenfields
Date: 15 Oct 00 - 12:39 AM

One more post--just read some of the thread again and want to weigh in on why hymns are folk music. They share with folk tunes the modal melodies; beautiful, even, easy to sing. Also share, the good ones, melodies that are beautiful, easily remembered, and haunting.

Also, like folk songs, the best hymns have multiple levels: the obvious ones of devotion, but also often a kind of, for lack of better words, political or social component. In Gospel Ship or I'll Fly Away, it's the belief that, with enough spiritual power, one can be taken away [from injustice, heartache, the human condition, whatever one wants to read into it.] I write poetry and am often tempted to enter evocative lines from folk music in italics as a commentary on what else I'm writing...because so much of it works on so many different levels.

Well, must close for the night! This is my first visit to Mudcat and it's been fun.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: greenfields
Date: 15 Oct 00 - 12:29 AM

This was a long thread to go through! Hymns are great music, and it's nice to know a lot of people think so. My favorites are: "Great day" (don't know the chords, but there are great versions on the Jessye Norman/Kathleen Battle CD "Spirituals in Concert" and on a Jessye Norman CD); also, "Abide with Me" and one I think is called "I don't believe he would have brought me this far (to leave me here alone)." I heard the Harlem Spiritual Ensemble a couple years ago and they sang a fantastic version of this at the end. Oh, and "Gospel Ship", another great one.

On a related topic that occurs to me, does anyone know how to get CDs by the Harlem Spiritual Ensemble, or any groups that, like them, perform spirituals? I have surfed the web regularly since seeing them, but the 2 CDs they have issued are out of print. Gospel, as I understand it, is more composed and current music than the spirituals, and it is spirituals that I love. Crave more of them!

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Oct 00 - 12:28 AM

The 100th post should be Old Hundredth.

~S~

Subject: I think I forgot
From: Haruo
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 04:38 PM

"Many gifts, one spirit" by Al (or is it Art?) Karmines (sp?; it's in the United Methodist Hymnal of 1989, I think the tune's called Katherine.

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 11:20 PM

Praise: Just a couple I've found myself singing lately, for whatever reason:
"My Jesus, I Love Thee" (circa 1861)
"The Ninety and Nine"
"Peace in the Valley" (particularly when I'm tired or stressed out)
I was glad to see at least one previous vote for "Angel Band" from the late 1850's (Titled "The Land of Beulah" in one old Hymn book); I play & sing that when I've about "had it" - often right before I go to bed. Which is about now. Peace.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Haruo
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 06:23 PM

Bradypus,

Thanks for the info on Lyngham etc.; I'll have to take it home where I can hear the MIDI and try it out. As for what we sing to it, I'd never heard of it except as an alternative tune for "O for 1000 Tongues"; ditto re Lydia. (Both were listed in The Cyber Hymnal, and I copied them in my own hymnal (with a note asking anybody who knew how to make 'em fit the words to email me).

Thanks

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library)
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM

Martin Luther, for his hymns, wrote new poems to old, mostly German folk (beer-drinking?!) melodies. So the oldest and most hoary Lutheran hymns are directly folk, in that the melodies were folk melodies usurped (if you'll pardon the verb) for sacred use.

Similarly, Christmas carols were originally written outside of the church (they were considered to vulgar for church use until late in the 19th or early in the 20th century). Many of the melodies and some of the words, even, of the oldest christmas carols/songs are "folk" in the pureset sense -- written by the people and passed along orally.

Praise, if you'll send me a snail mail addy I'll send you some pcopies of music in the eastern european Orthodox tradition. In email we can discuss what sorts of things you might be interested in. There's a whole world of slavic and byzantine hymnody that most "western" Xians aren't at all familiar with -- very different from what you're most likely used to, and some of it breathtakingly beautiful!

email me at [e-mail]

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Haruo
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 06:16 PM

Mary, thanks for your kind words about my hymnal; of course you and anybody else who wants to are welcome to link to it. I've prepared two indexes for English-speaking readers (i.e. with the hymns arranged by English title): one of hymns (excluding Christmas material), the other of Christmas/Advent/Epiphany songs/hymns/carols; both will be found under the appropriate headings in the Mudcat Links lists, each with an additional link in the description to the Main List of Contents (which, however, while the most complete, is not in English). By the time Advent rolls around I hope to have at least another dozen or so carols installed. At the main contents list, a little Xmas-tree-n-star icon indicates Advent/Christmas/Epiphany materials, and a green star with superimposed cross indicates texts originally written in Esperanto.

As for the language, it's Esperanto, the international language, of which I am a fluent speaker (and singer and songwriter/hymnist). The primary purpose of my online hymnal is to provide Christian Esperantists with a resource similar in kind (and, as far as possible, in scope) to The Cyber Hymnal. Eventually I hope to have all of my own hymnic opera [plural of opus ;-] in all languages, as well as as much of the contents of all the major Esperanto hymnals (Evangelia Kantaro, Himnaro Esperanta, Adoru kantante [you can read the Foreword to this one in English (my translation)], Tero kaj Ĉielo Kantu, Esperanta Himnaro, Cent Himnoj, Evangelia Kantaro Eklezia and KELI-Kantaro "De Pietersberg", to name just the main Protestant ones) as I can without offending anyone, plus any other Esperanto hymns I've collected here or there, on the site with appropriate MIDIs etc., notes about hymn histories, bio notes on authors and composers, etc. So far I'm up to 152 hymn pages, 125 of them in Esperanto. So I've got a ways to go to catch the TCH folks ;-)...

As for Amen, Amen (See the Baby), there are two versions on the site (one more Christmassy than the other). The note below the text of the Christmas version reads as follows:

Eblas kanti la tuton unisone, sed mi opinias, ke oni prefere kantu lau la tradicia sistemo, t.e. solkantisto kantu la kursivajn partojn (la strofojn), kaj la kunveno kantu la ceteron (t.e. la amenojn); oni rimarkos, ke la solkantaj partoj iomete superkushas la amenojn. La rolon de solkantisto povas transpreni diversaj kantantoj dum la daurado de la kanto, kaj eblas lauvole krei novajn strofojn.

Which is to say, "It's possible to sing the whole thing in unison, but in my opinion its preferable to sing it according to the traditional system, i.e. a soloist should sing the italicized parts (the stanzas), and the congregation should sing the remainder (i.e. the amens); one will note that the solo parts slightly overlap the amens. During the course of the song various singers can successively take the role of soloist, and it is possible to create new stanzas at will."

Hope that is of some use or interest to some of you.

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Bagpuss
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 05:58 PM

My favourite hymns at the moment:

Centre of my Life

Breathe on Me

Take Lord Receive

To You Yahweh I lift up My Soul

Because The Lord is My Shepherd

And many more. Most of my favourites are by the St Louis Jesuits - who also wrote ones like On Eagles Wings, and Here I am Lord.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 05:52 PM

...just thought of another medley, Praise.

We Shall Walk Through the Valley/Precious Lord

The first is #501 in the 1975 Baptist Hymnal, but I can't find it in other versions, and I can't find a midi. If you're interested I can write a quick midi of the tune and you can see if you like it.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 05:37 PM

Bert wrote: ...hymns are ... sponsored by an authority. . .the church.

Actually, a great number, (perhaps most) of the hymns are written by "non-professionals" or ordinary folk. Don't think you could say they're "sponsored by the church," it's just that if they strike the right chord (no pun intended) the church embraces them. Not sure this is true in the "high church" tradition, but it is certainly true of those hymns in the Baptist Hymnal.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Bradypus
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 04:36 PM

Liland -

It would take 2 minutes for me to let you hear how 'O for a Thousand Tongues; goes to Lyngham. It wll take a bit longer to do it by typing.

In my (basically Nonconformist) circles, Lyngham is the normal tune for this hymn. It is so set in Mission Praise (ISBN 0 551 01092 4)and in Songs of Fellowship (ISBN 0 86065 936 4). Mission Praise doesn't have the words lined up with the music, whereas Songs of Fellowship does. If you already have the words and the music, Mission Praise won't give you anything new.

Lyngham is designated as C.M. in The Baptist Hymnbook (where 'Come Let Us Join Our Cheerful Songs' is set to it), and as 8 6 8 6 Extended in Mission Praise. I'm curious as to what you normally sing to Lyngham - is it a Common Meter hymn ?

I suppose the problem with fitting the words to the tune is that there are more tune lines than word lines. The solution is that some of the lines are repeated. Doing my best to show where sylabbles are extended, it is sung as follows:

O for a tho-o-o-o-ou-sand to-ongues to-o sing
My great Redeemer's praise
My gre-e-e-e-eat Redeemer's praise
The glories o-o-of my Go-od a-and King
The triumphs of his grace
The triumphs of his grace
The triumphs of his grace
The triumphs of his grace

This missing out the echo sung by the ladies under 'the triumphs of his grace, displaced by half a bar, and the full-blooded singing from an enthusiastic congregation that the words demand.

Does that make any sense? If not, send me your e-mail address by personal message, and I'll somehow get a copy to you.

The Baptist Hymnbook (sorry, no ISBN, my copy predates the system, used to be published by the Psalm and Hymn Trust, London) sets O for a Thousand Tongues to University and to Lydia. I don't like Lydia so much, and I'm not as familiar with it, but using the same sort of notation as above:

O for a tho-o-ousand tongues to-o sing My gre-at re-ede-e-emer's praise The glories of my God and ki-i-ing The triumphs of his gra-a-a-ace The tri-i-i-umphs o-of hi-is grace

Hope that helps.

Bradypus

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: The Walrus
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 04:01 PM

Possible thread creep?

Often on Armistice Day, I find myself reciting chunks of Kipling's "Recessional". Has anyone ever put that to music?

"For frantic boast and foolish word-
"Thy mercy on Thy people, Lord !"

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Bert
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 03:33 PM

... Can someone PLEASE articulate how hymns, new or old, are folk music and OF COURSE do completely belong in the Mudcat?...

My personal opinion is, if they are posted by Mudcatters then they belong here.

I think that hymns generally are not folk music because they are sponsored by an authority. In this case the church. However those that escape from the authority and are sung purely for pleasure and become part of the society's tradition (such as my favourites - carols) could well be considered as folk music.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 02:55 PM

So Mark, Hardiman came in just now (it's his day off) from doing some carpentry on the chicken shed, and I asked him about the Psalm and Byzantine tone, and he sez oh sure, and starts singing the Exultet to that tone, no problem... then he says, oh, it depends how you denomination has numbered the psalms, is that By the Waters of Babylon?

See what I meant. He also sez to tell you that your message inspired a rendition last night of the Kontakion on fiddle, to go with the kind of day he had.

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 12:48 PM

You know, when my job ends at the end of the month I will be able to go through all of this with a fine-toothed comb, and what a joy it will be to plunge into all of this glorious music. Till then I have a lot of stuff to do so my computer will go everywhere you are all leading me, and to hear it all... I have the computer set up on the same table where I autoharp, so I will be able to work stuff out also in HearMe...

I can only imagine, for now, how intensely creative and prayerful this time will be, as I continue to gather tools and you all keep adding in new gems. I thought at most I would get a dry list with new things to try, but this is like a candy store in heaven with things in it that are good for you. Imagine the perfect music shop in heaven, and that's what this is like-- and we are all there dropping in and out to pick a tune, harmonize a new piece by Liland, oh my...

There is a song by Gloria Gaither I think, When All of God's Singer's Get Home. I thought that would be the peak, but now I see Elvis coming over to sing lead at our music-shop jam... I didn't know the King was a Mudcatter!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 11:47 AM

Liland - That is gorgeous! I already see several that I couldn't find anywhere else. May I have permission to link to your page, and also use some of your Christmas carols?

...and now, a question...certainly no offense intended...What language is that? Italian? I know a little Spanish so could kinda follow.

...and another one for Praise. Amen is listed on Liland's site. I had a lot of fun with this one at choir practice in Alabama. We had a very young minister who was, shall we say uninhibited, and he would sing the verse while the choir chimed in the chorus. (a la Forrest Gump if you know what I mean)

Subject: Lyr Add: Shepherds, Rejoice!
From: Haruo
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 10:54 AM

Lord! and shall angels have their songs
And men no tunes to raise?
Oh, may we lose our useless tongues,
When they forget to praise.

(From William Billings' Shepherds, Rejoice!, infra)

Praise, early on in this thread soddy recommended "anything by Billings" (especially Shiloh, to which you replied you only had one hymn by Billings, When Jesus Wept. Is this the same as the one I think of as a canon (as distinct from a hymn), whose melody can be heard here? (If you scroll down a few inches and click on the MIDI link that says "Kanono kvarvoca : MIDI LBR" you can hear it as a four-voice canon.) If this is not the "When Jesus Wept" you have, please provide details! Chester, which was one of the Billings pieces soddy mentioned, is probably easier to locate in a collection of Revolutionary War music than in a hymnic context. Anyhow, with Christmas on the horizon, here's a Billings Christmas hymn that I think is pretty darn neat:

Another Billings Hymn:

SHEPHERDS REJOICE

(William Billings)

1
`Shepherds, rejoice, lift up your eyes,
And send your fears away;
News from the regions of the skies:
A Saviour's born today!
Jesus, the God whom angels fear,
Comes down to dwell with you!
Today he makes his entrance here,
But not as monarchs do.

2
`No gold or purple swaddling bands,
Nor royal shining things;
A manger for his cradle stands,
And holds the King of Kings.
Go, shepherds, where the infant lies,
And see his humble throne;
With tears of joy in all your eyes,
Go, shepherds, kiss the Son.'

3
Thus Gabriel sang, and straight around
The heavenly armies throng;
They tune their harps to lofty sound,
And thus conclude the song;
`Glory to God that reigns above,
Let peace surround the earth;
Mortals shall know their Maker's love
At their Redeemer's birth.'

4
Lord! and shall angels have their songs
And men no tunes to raise?
Oh, may we lose our useless tongues,
When they forget to praise.
Glory to God that reigns above,
That pitied us forlorn;
We join to sing our Maker's love,
For there's a Saviour born.

You can get a MIDI of it here where I have posted it in my online hymnal.

LBR

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 09:53 AM

Yeah, Kendall, I know it's OK for Unitarians to like hymns... I just wish they wouldn't spend so much time reading ahead to see if they're politically correct, and just belt them out the way some folks do!

PARSON...Thanks for the tip on the Unitarian hymn in the Baptist hymnal. I'll have to look for it. Pretty sure it's not in the UU hymnal, but I could be wrong. Who wrote it? And yeah, Dancing With the Angels is cool!

Pat

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:30 PM

Re: Praise's question "Can someone PLEASE articulate how hymns, new or old, are folk music?"

Like all folk songs, if they're not kept alive in the oral tradition, they will be unknown to the next generation.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:19 PM

The Catholic/GIA hymnal Gather II (which I don't own) has a nice Magnificat to Wild Mountain Thyme, to allude to another thread. — Liland

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: guinnesschik
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:10 PM

Beautiful songs, all. My new favorite was written by Gillian Welch, and it's called "By the Mark." It's recent enough, however, that you might have problems if you wanted to record it, but we've been using it at Kirking ceremonies lately, as we've played Celtic Festivals. If you're interested in one so recent, I'd be glad to get it to you.

Blessings, Praise! You're such a joy to read!

;-)g'chik

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Night Owl
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:09 PM

Current favorite is "Farther Along"....and most of the above..esp. "Softly and Tenderly". (Anyone else heard Joe Val's version of "Daniel Prayed"? Wonderful harmonies in it.)

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:08 PM

Liland - regarding Beach Spring - when I wrote to them, Paula answered me and said she thought it was under copyright because I just quoted the Come Ye Sinners page in the Baptist Hymnal which said copyright 1958 Broadman Press. Obviously, Beach Spring is a very old tune.

...another medley...once again in the Baptist Hymnal on facing pages, I Love Thee and My Jesus, I Love Thee.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:56 PM

We are toasting the late Ernie Dowell in the Tavern.

~S~

Subject: Mansion over the hilltop
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:54 PM

Mansion over the hilltop, and, repeating myself, Havergal's Light after darkness

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:50 PM

Hi all, including Susan,

Glad to see you all survived my big hymnlist.

I'm of the opinion that folk music is the music folks sing, and if folks sing hymns, hymns are folk music. If a machine were invented tomorrow that enabled us to go back in time and determine who first "composed" or "wrote" Barbara Allen or Wild Mountain Thyme, that knowledge wouldn't disqualify the songs from being folk. I'm not sure about new songs; actually, I think to really "feel" like folk, a song has to survive a generation and be learned by folks who don't know who wrote it. That process may only take a couple of years in practice, but it's still necessary.

I agree, Susan, a thread on NEW HYMNS BY MUDCATTERS (hey! not so loud!) could be fun. Might even induce me to write another hymn or two of my own.

Burke, I admit I glanced at a hymnal or two last night (Chalice Hymnal, New Century Hymnal, Lutheran Book of Worship, and the 1934 Hope Pub. Co. Worship and Praise, plus of course my own online Esperanto hymnal which I linked to several times. But at least I was moderate about it; I've got about 25 English-language hymnals in the apartment (not to mention half a dozen Esperanto ones and one each in Japanese and Vietnamese), and several more at church, and could have really run off at the keyboard if I'd tried! I would say I referred to hymnals for less than 10% of my recommendations.

Re: Wondrous Love & Captain Kidd : I agree they're not identical, but I think they're similar enough that (a) they betray a common ancestor, and (b) their actual forms in performance overlap. Which is why I said "essentially" the same tune. But it may be the form I'm used to is the one most like Wondrous Love, and the one you're used to the form least like it... The problem with Diadem is probably more that people are so used to one of the other tunes than any intrinsic difficulty in the tune itself.

Bald Eagle, by the same pen you mean Nahum Tate of the Tate & Brady psalter ("New Version", I think), ca. 1700. I think those two pieces are the only ones in that psalter that have survived.

Mary in Kentucky: Yeah, I'm the one that finally got Richard Adams (i.e. The Cyber Hymnal) to put Beach Spring in; he wrote me that when he listened to my MIDI of it he realized it was a tune he knew, but he thought he knew it by some other name. Any idea what that might be (I only know the one name for it)? Thanks for the suggestion about the facing pages; I hadn't thought of medleying them. Does it work for Come, thou fount too?? (Warrenton/Nettleton, i.e.)? And you're welcome on Candler!

Bill D: I thought the Hymn Society was centered at Oberlin with the DAH library. What's their address in Boston? Boston University it looks like from the url (I'm not online here).

Bradypus: I sent a PM on this to Liz the Squeak but haven't heard back: how does one accommodate the text of 'O for a Thousand Tongues' to Lyngham (or Lydia for that matter)? I'm aware of the use of those tunes for that text, but can't tell from listening how it's sung to them. Can you refer me to a specific edition of a particular hymnal that has it (if British, preferably one of the biggies like English Hymnal, Hymns Ancient & Modern, or Songs of Praise, that American libraries are likely to have)? In the US Azmon (Gläser, arranged by Lowell Mason) is overwhelmingly the tune of choice for commemorating Chuck Wesley's conversion, and I thought in UK it was usually Dykes' Beatitudo.

Leland

PS I decided to go ahead and post my Jesus'-ancestrices hymn, even though the MIDI isn't ready. If you know the tune to "Silver Threads and Golden Needles" you can use it and you'll be close enough to my intentions.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: WyoWoman
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:10 PM

"Sweet Hour of Prayer" "Bright Morning Stars" (sung unaccompanied -- gorgeous duet material) "If I Be Lifted Up"

ww

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:48 PM

Urban Hymns by The Verve.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: khandu
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:38 PM

The Solid Rock. "On Christ the solid rock I stand.All other ground is sinking sand." HOW TRUE! Leaning on the everlasting Arms. "What have I to dread? What have I to fear? I have blessed Peace with my Lord so near."Whenever I feel overwhelmed, these words lift me high!!>khandu

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Ely
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:31 PM

Simple Gifts, Amazing Grace, When the Roll is Called, Wondrous Love, Leaning on the Everlasting Arms, Swing Low Sweet Chariot, Rise Up Shepherd, Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen, Oh Mary Don't You Weep, Life's Railway to Heaven, Just a Closer Walk with Thee, I'll Fly Away, Uncloudy Day, Friendly Beasts, How Can I Keep from Singing, Lord of the Dance, are all good. My mom likes "In the Garden" (C. Austin Miles was inspired by her hometown of Pitman, NJ, which began as a summer camp-meeting site).

I don't think I know any formal hymns--some of these we sing for fun after Meeting and some I learned from Baptist friends.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:34 PM

Sigh.....

Another death today.

Hardiman has gone to see the widow. I forgot to ask if he had given them the tape from the service a few weeks back, where we did one for them and I said so on the tape. Hey... DON'T POST ANYTHING TO ME ABOUT IT. Just know my heart is heavy but will be lifted high nonetheless and that I will sing, I will sing, I will sing.. I will sing of the mercies of the Lord forever, I will sing, I will sing... with my mouth will I make known His faithfulness, His faithfulness... isn't that how that one goes?

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Bradypus
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:07 PM

Favourite probably depends on what we sung last week, and on how I'm feeling at the time. The list above seems mostly traditional, so can I throw in a couple of more modern ones - 'The Servant King', by Graham Kendrick ("Hands that flung stars into space ... To cruel nails surrendered" always makes me shiver)'As the Deer' by Martin Nystrom, with a tune that really wants a harp accompaniment.

Traditional ones would include 'O for a Thousand Tongues'(Lyngham), 'And Can it Be'(Sagina)'Thine Be the Glory 'Maccabeus'

And 'Be Thou My Vision' taken into 4/4 rather than 3/4 for a lovely Celtic feel.

Bradypus

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 05:48 PM

Oh Liland, thanks so much! I checked out Candler, and that's Bonnie Doon, one of my all time favorite tunes! I can't believe I've spent all these years thumbing through hymnals and never noticed that!

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 05:46 PM

did you know there is a Hymn Society?...home base is Boston.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 05:09 PM

Reads nicely but a bit conceited, don't you think?

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: GUEST,Sailor Dan at work
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 05:07 PM

These have already been mentioned but,

Here I am Lord, On Eagles Wings, with Amazing Grace.

It reads nicely as a sentence.

Sailor DAn

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 04:27 PM

I knew I'd mess up the HTML somewhere...Mrs. Zezam has a link to Hymnsite and here's the one to Contemporary/Traditional Hymns http://members.tripod.com/~kcrowell/christian.htm

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 04:16 PM

Praise - I forgot a few things in the PM that may be helpful.

Here are some links where you can hear what the hymns sound like:

• The Cyber Hymnal http://www.tch.simplenet.com--Liland linked to this one also.
• Southern Harmony http://www.ccel.org/s/southern_harmony/sharm/sharm/---T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) shared this link.
• Amazing Grace MIDIs http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1100/singing.htm---Escamillo (Andrés) shared this one with us. Still need to hear him sing it on HearMe!
• Hymnsite http://www.hymnsite.com/

There are several books which explain the stories behind hymns. I don't have one, but am always interested in these stories, especially Christmas Carols. The Cyber Hymmal has some of these histories.

Murray - I love the hymns hijacked from the old English and Irish tunes.

• Be Thou My Vision - Irish
  O Sing a Song of Bethlehem (Kingsfold) - an English melody arranged by Ralph Vaughan Williams - many hymns are set to this tune - just look for RW Williams or Kingsfold in the back of any hymnal - you'll probably get the most hits in an Episcopal Hymnal.
• I Vow to Thee My Country - hijacked from Holst's "The Planets" which was in turn another old English melody.

  Liland - I'm saving this thread for sure. You seem to be familiar with the Beachspring tune for Come, Ye Sinners, Poor and Needy. As I mentioned above, the two versions are in the Baptist Hymnal on facing pages and make a beautiful medley because one is in a minor key and the other major. The Beachspring tune was the background music in Ken Burns' Lewis and Clark special. I also wrote the Cyber Hymnal asking for this one. It's now in there, but you have to go to the Come Ye Sinners page and then click again to get to Beachspring tune.

  Had enough yet, Praise?

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: GUEST,Bald Eagle at home
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:47 PM

As Pants the Hart, from the same pen as While Shepherds Watched, to a heartbreakingly beautiful Scottish melody (I believe). Out of this world, in more ways than one.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 02:27 PM

Thanks, Susan, I'd like to hear it.

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:41 PM

I see now why I quit my job, which will end in a coupla weeks. More hymns to learn than there was time in a day-- something had to go!

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:55 PM

Favourite hymns? This I find diffcult as there are a number which seem to come into favour according to mood (or memory)
"(I have a sweet hope of)Glory in my Soul" (I'm not even sure of the title) is one that always gets a reaction, mainly because it brings back memories of friends now dead (my old ECW group used to sing it at "post funeral" gatherings to "sing away" a lost friend)
"Eternal Father"(mariner's hymn)
"Abide with me"
"Oh God Our Help in Ages past"
"I vow to thee, my country"
All bring their own memories

Walrus

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Burke
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:45 PM

Liland,
No fair, you had to have gotten your hymnals out & taken the whole night finding ever single favorite.

Foundation is a good tune for your Christmas breakfast hymn, but have you tried it with Adestes Fideles? The contrast of a tune we connect with Christmas being with Easter words would be really interesting.

I'm going to disagree about Wondrous Love & Captain Kidd being the same tune. They are the same meter. A meter so unique that it's known as Kidd meter. The stresses in it, especially the repeated 4 syllable phrases: Oh my soul, oh my soul; He set sail, he set sail, tend to overwhealm the actual tune. At least the tune I've heard for Captain Kidd is quite different from Wondrous Love.

The Trumpet is lots harder to sing than Diadem. I can't imagine a church congregation actually observing rests and without them I don't think it will work.

Did you realize the Martyrdom you do with Alas, and did my Saviour Bleed is the same as Sacred Throne in Sacred Harp? I was so surprised when I realized I'd been singing it all my life.

I have to add to all these wonderful lists:
Jesus Lover of my Soul. The Episcopal church uses a Welsh tune, I think, which I like fine. But I love S.B. Marsh's Martin (Martyn) with it mostly because that's the tune I grew up on.

Thee will I love my strength my tower is a german hymn translated by one of the Wesleys. Years ago my choir director found it in an old English Methodist hymnal with a tune I really liked with it. I've seen it with other tunes (IVCF hymnal comes to mind) that just did not work as well for me. There's also a Catherine Winkworth translation & much as I like her generally I think this version better.

Gotta go. As a friend of mine likes to sign
::Sing on::

(: are repeat marks)

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:24 PM

Yee HAHHH!!!!!

Wow, we will need another thread, NEW HYMNS BY MUDCATTERS.

Can someone PLEASE articulate how hymns, new or old, are folk music and OF COURSE do completely belong in the Mudcat? I can SEE it but I can't get the WORDS to come out right. And I think it needs to be said.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:38 AM

Praise Susan,

Hi, I'm a big hymnnut myself and regrettably didn't see this thread yesterday until one minute before the library computer time I was using ran out, so I just copied the thread (as of 10:30pm) to a floppy and brought it home to annotate. ;-)

I don't know anything about your theology or your worship style, except what I've gleaned from this thread, so I may make some very inappropriate suggestions, in which case sorry, but you did want "[MY] Favorite Hymns".

I'll bypass those that are only in Esperanto or other non-English languages. But I do enjoy singing other languages, and sometimes when we're singing a hymn I know in another tongue (such as Adeste fideles (O come, all ye faithful) or Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott (A Mighty Fortress is our God (us) = A Sure Stronghold our God is still (uk)) in church I'll go ahead and sing the Latin or German or whatever, ignoring whatever havoc this may cause to those about me; I know the Apostle Paul would get on my case about that - I Cor. 14:9 ;-).

First off, I like some of my own hymns, probably the three I most like singing are my Easter Monday breakfast hymn, Come then, let's have breakfast, my Christmas/Innocents carol In Bethlem Town (to the "Pesky Sarpent" tune aka "Springfield Mountain"), and my quasiantiphonal hymn in honor of Jesus' female forebears, Who'd have thought the Lord Almighty (I haven't got this up on my site yet; still trying to put together the MIDI).

Now...
Probably my two favorite hymns to sing while waiting for the bus are His voice as the sound of the dulcimer sweet (to Samanthra); it's in The Cyber Hymnal (I contributed it); and likewise Come away to the skies (to Middlebury), which is also in Hymnal 1982 (Episcopal) if you have access to that. The latter we have sung successfully in church, the former not. Both are Southern Harmony hymns, and may also be (I haven't checked) in one edition or another of the Sacred Harp. I also like Come, O thou traveler unknown (I sing it to Candler, a Scottish folk tune, as in the 1989 United Methodist Hymnal), but don't have enough of its stanzas memorized to be useful at bus stops.

I like We are standing on holy ground and the text by Chief Seattle, Every part of the earth.

I like Frances Havergal hymns, especially Like a River Glorious (to Wye Valley), Light after darkness (I prefer, however O Quanta Qualia over the Sankey tune most American hymnals that have it give), and (I just learned this last week) On Our Way Rejoicing (to Havergal's own Hermas).

At our evening service recurrent favorites are Jesus loves me, Amazing Grace, The Wedding Banquet, I'll Fly Away, Marching to Zion, a medley of Do Lord + Jesus Walkin' on the Water + I Have Decided to Follow Jesus, Surely Goodness and Mercy (A Pilgrim was I and a-wand'ring) (this is a sort of Psalm 23 spinoff, making explicit the interpretation that "the Lord my Shepherd" = "Jesus", to a tune that is a little reminiscent of Old Rosin the Beau), Give me oil in my lamp, We Are One in the Spirit, ...

I also like Who Is on the Lord's Side, Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the Metropolitan Community Church songs We Are the Church Alive and Our God is like an Eagle, Praise to the Living God (to Leoni (Yigdal)), O Worship the King, ...

I love a lot of the Welsh hymn tunes, such as Hyfrydol [Come, thou long-expected Jesus; Alleluia, Sing to Jesus; Love Divine, All Love Excelling], Ton-y-Botel (aka Ebenezer) [Once to Every Man and Nation; O the Deep, Deep Love of Jesus], Cwm Rhondda [Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah; God of Grace and God of Glory], and St. Denio (aka Joanna) [Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise; God Made from One Flesh all the Families of Earth].

Now I'll take a look at some of the others' lists in this thread and see what I can add:

Mary in Kentucky: I second "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing", to Nettleton (this tune is nearly universal for the text in USA but little known, I think, in UK). The Dakota hymn "Wotanin waste nahon po" ("Hear the Good News of Salvation") to the same tune is an upbeat one, too.

MMario: Second Here I Am Lord — a great hymn, musically and imagewise.

Dave (the ancient mariner): I entirely agree about the importance of tunes — but then you gave a list with no tune names in it. The names you gave after the titles are the lyricists, not the composers. I don't know the tune for the Downton hymn, and by "Pilgrim Song" I am assuming you mean "He Who Would Valiant Be" set to St. Dunstan's; for the others I am betting you mean Melita, Wir Pflügen, Bunessan, Royal Oak, , St. Anne, Rest (Maker); what is "your version" of "Stand Up Stand Up for Jesus" (I can't picture myself singing it to anything other than Webb aka Morning Light!)

Quincy: Good choices, especially "To God Be the Glory" ("Praise Him, praise Him, Jesus, our blessed Redeemer" is another good Crosby number)

mrs_zezam: Yes, and Joyful, joyful, we adore thee, and All glory, laud and honour

Burke: Amen to your suggestions; a sidelight on "Wondrous Love": the tune is essentially the same as the secular "Captain Kidd". A Sacred Harp tune I enjoy (though I'm not sure it could work in 21st-century worship) is The Trumpet; incidentally, does anybody know a variant text where (the archangel) Michael is mentioned in the second stanza? I know I have seen such, but I can't imagine where. I guess I'll have to initiate a thread on that. Yes to All hail the power, but be forewarned that Diadem takes a little practice to get it down (Coronation [the US norm] and Miles Lane [the UK norm] are both much simpler to sing)

Alex (mousethief): Amen to your list, especially "And Can It Be", "For the Beauty of the Earth" and "Holy Holy Holy" (assuming you mean Heber to Nicaea); but I have no clue what tune IVCF's Hymns III uses for "All Hail the Power" — is it one of the three mentioned in my note to Burke above? or something different?

mrs_zezam: More good ones; see, I told you you'd like "Joyful"!

winterbright: All good suggestions; and thanks for bringing in an African-American spiritual or two; there are lots in that tradition that I love, Steal Away, Study War No More, Balm in Gilead... And as for Unitarian hymns, the carol It came upon the midnight clear is a good one.

bflat: "How Can I Keep from Singing" is a good Lowry hymn (among others, he also wrote "He Arose" and the wonderful "Chorus of Fire", and apparently the music to the Fanny Crosby "Glad Tidings", which has basically disappeared in English but remains popular in Hawaiian as "Nu 'Oli")

bbc: The tune had better be Sagina!

Mary in Kentucky again: More good choices! Seems to me one of those Baptist 1975 versions of Come Ye Sinners Poor and Needy is the Sacred Heart setting, Beach Spring, which is by far the most widespread Sacred Heart tune in the mainstream hymnals. I like Ruth Duck's As a Fire Is Meant for Burning for it.

Parson Randall: Great is thy faithfulness and It Is Well are both must-sings! (Tunes: Faithfulness — unfortunately still copyright in US, I think — and Ville du Havre, the latter named after a ship that played a role in the story behind the song that the Parson alluded to (can be found i.a. on The Cyber Hymnal

What did I forget?
In addition to the old standbys for Christmas carols, I like A Stable Lamp Is Lighted (to Andújar), One Candle Is Lit (an Advent-candle hymn that can be sung a stanza a week) in the Chalice Hymnal, The Huron Carol (though it would be nice to have a slightly less Hiawathaish distortion of the original), and I prefer the refrainless approach to What Child Is This, as in the Lutheran Book of Worship and the UCC's New Century Hymnal ...
I like Brian Wren's Sing my song backwards, a number of recent hymns to O Waly Waly (e.g. Create Us New, or "I come to be baptized today" in the Chalice Hymnal, or Brian Wren's more widely known "When Love Is Found" and Fred Pratt Green's "An Upper Room Did Our Lord Prepare"); Jaroslav Vajda's "Now the Silence" and "Then the Glory(?)"; Wren's "Bring Many Names"; Sydney Carter (of "Lord of the Dance" fame)'s "Said Judas to Mary"; the great Dakota hymn "Many and Great, O God, are your Works" (tune: Lacquiparle); the "Battle Hymn of the Republic"; "Onward, Christian Soldiers"; "Soldiers of Christ, Arise"; "Praise to God" (to "Sakura"); "Come, Ye Thankful People, Come"; "We Gather Together" (turkey day a-comin'!); "Hallelujah! Thine the Glory"; "Marvelous Grace of our Loving Lord"; "I Know Whom I Have Believèd"; "It May Be at Morn (Christ Returneth)"; "Blessed be the Name (All praise to him who reigns above)"; "Hosanna, loud hosanna"; "The Day of Resurrection"; "Hail Thee, Festival Day"; "Ye Who Share the Faith of Jesus"; "St. Joseph Was a Quiet Man"; "Jesus Shall Reign Where'er the Sun"; "All Creatures of Our God and King"; "This Is My Father's World"; "Motherhood, Sublime, Eternal" (a God-the-Mother hymn from the 1941 Baptist/Disciples hymnal of all places); "Faith of our Fathers" (preferably with the stanza where Mary's prayers win England back to Christ); "O for a Thousand Tongues to Sing My Great Redeemer's Praise"; "Love Divine, All Loves Excelling" to Beecher (I already mentioned it to Hyfrydol); "Christ the Lord Is Risen Today" and "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today"; "Thine Is (aka Be) the Glory"; "Sweet Hour of Prayer"; "My Jesus, I Love Thee"; "O How I Love Jesus"; "Hail to the Lord's Anointed" to "Sheffield" aka "British Grenadiers"; "Isaiah the Prophet Has Written of Old" (to Samanthra); "Brightest and Best of the Sons of the Morning" (to many different tunes, including several old fasola airs); "Though the Angry Surges Roll" ("My Anchor Holds"); "Jesus Calls Us O'er the Tumult" (to Galilee (Jude)); "Silence, Frenzied, Unclean Spirit!" (to Authority); "Alas! and Did My Savior Bleed" (to Martyrdom in Lent, Hudson elsewhen); "Just As I Am" (to Woodworth); "Ah, Holy Jesus! How Hast Thou Offended?"; "O Sacred Head, Sore Wounded"; "My Song Is Love Unknown" (I prefer it to Love Unknown); "Come, Ye Faithful, Raise the Strain" (to St. Kevin); "Now the Green Blade Rises" (to Noël Nouvelet); "Creator God, Creating Still" (to St. Anne); "A Woman and a Coin"; "When Jesus Came to Golgotha"; "When God Is a Child"; "like a child"; "Mothering God, You Gave Me Birth"; "Blessed Be the God of Israel, Who Comes to Set Us Free" (to Merle's Tune); "Emmanuel, Emmanuel"; "People, Look East"; "God's Love Made Visible!"; "Sing of Mary, Pure and Lowly" (to Pleading Savior); "Woman in the Night"; "The Blood Will Never Lose Its Power"; "Jesus Christ Was a Man" (Woody Guthrie); "He Lives!"; "On Pentecost They Gathered" (to Munich or Sheffield); "Holy Wisdom"; "The Church's One Foundation" (and various rebuttal texts to the same tune, Aurelia); "I Love Thy Kingdom, Lord" (preferably unmodernized); "As a Chalice Cast of Gold"; "I Cannot Dance, O Love"; "Joyful Is the Dark, Holy, Hidden God"; "I Bind unto Myself Today" (to St. Patrick's Breastplate/Deirdre); "We, Your People, God, Confessing" (to In Babilone); "All Who Hunger, Gather Gladly" (to Holy Manna); "Come, Celebrate the Call of God" (to Alida's Tune; "Jesus Saves"; "Many Are the Lightbeams" (this is a recent Swedish song, but it paraphrases one of the oldest extrabiblical texts in our hymn corpus, in De unitate ecclesiae by Cyprian of Carthage, from about the year 250); "Weave"; "Holy and Good Is the Gift of Desire"; "When Aimless Violence Takes Those We Love" (to Sursum Corda); "When Our Confidence Is Shaken" (to Lauda Anima); "The Solid Rock"; "O Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go"; "No, Not One"; "Standing on the Promises"; "Jesus, Keep Me Near the Cross"; "I Am Thine, O Lord"; "Living for Jesus"; "'Are Ye Able,' Said the Master"; "Lift Every Voice and Sing" (the NAACP Anthem); "Let There Be Peace on Earth"; "Rejoice, the Lord is King!" (to Darwall's 148^th); "Let All Things Now Living" and "Sent Forth By God's Blessing" (both to Ash Grove); etc.

There are too many others to list, but still, if you look up some of the ones I've mentioned that you don't know, maybe you'll get some good from all that verbiage. If there are some you really want but can't find, I can send you MIDI or Noteworthy Composer files of most of them.

Blessings (as the Wiccans say),
Liland
Esperanto hymnist
Liberal Baptist [sic] layman

PS Adoru, a new ecumenical hymnal currently being compiled in Europe, is I am told planning on including seven or eight of my pieces: three of my original-in-Esperanto works (including my baptismal hymn Akve mi baptas vin, the Easter morning breakfast hymn mentioned earlier), and my translations of "Immortal, invisible", "Great is thy faithfulness", "My anchor holds", "Give me oil in my lamp", and maybe "Let all mortal flesh keep silence". Naturally I'm quite excited to have someone else wanting to publish my stuff, though I'll never get rich off Esperanto royalties. ;-) (And why, I can hear some surviving relatives say, would anyone bother to write worship songs except for the royalties?) ;-(

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:24 AM

Hey, we aren't done yet! Traditional hymns: Oh God, our help in ages past (Watts' setting of Psalm 90) Glorious things of thee are spoken (to Haydn's tune, not Jefferson as in the Sacred Harp book. Too good a tune to be ruined forever) Christ our Lord is risen today (Easter Hymn with Alleluias) Lead On O King Eternal-- did nobody netion this because it it is TOO common? Sacred Harp: Northfield (by J. Ingalls, NOT Billings) Greenfields, Amsterdam, Sherburne, Lenox, Murillo's Lesson,David's Lamentation. . .too many to list! Modern gospel: Deep Settled Peace, Wicked Path of Sin, I'll Fly Away, Anchored in Love, Where the Soul of Man Never Dies, Give me the Roses, (can you tell I am a Carter Family fan?)

Subject: RE: Help: YOUR Favorite Hymns
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 02:14 AM

Yup, Doug, ezzackly.

What I love about hymns... whew... it's that each one (in my little view of it all) says someting the writer experienced themselves. Something they knew or felt or saw or thought or realized... in living as much as they understood at the time. When I adopt one, it's because it says what I would say if I sat down to write what I know at this moment in my life, or this one, or this one....

I just appreciate so much that you took the time to list these for me, all of you, and to share them with me. I coudn't do it, if you asked me. My favorites change each week as I fall in love with a new message or a new way of saying something-- as though there are no other hymns in the world.

I know in many cases these contributions have been very personal. Please know how much I will value them, for coming from you, and your life. I'll try to do them justice and sing them with all of my heart.

~Susan