Tech: Who uses Netscape?

Subject: Who uses Netscape?
From: Zebedee
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:03 PM

Does anyone use Netscape anymore?

My reason for asking is that I'm in the middle of writing a website for a charitable organisation for whom I volunteer.

I'm keen to produce a site that can be read by as many people as possible, and have been careful to code with that in mind.

As any good web designer should, I've tried to preview my site in as many different versions of different browsers as I can. Everything is great until I use Netscape, when having set a background image for a single table cell, I have problems.

The effect I want works perfectly in Internet Explorer, but in Netscape 4.5, the background doesn't restrict itself to the table cell that I've designated, but decides to become the background to the whole page. This has ugly results.

My question is, should I care? Does anyone use Netscape anymore?

Zeb

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:09 PM

Zebedee, there are a lot of users who hate using anything other than Netscape, you certainly should care.

Jon

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:13 PM

Amen!

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Zebedee
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:15 PM

Jon,

I'm sure your right. I have included as much Netscape friendly stuff in my code as I know how.

If you have any idea as to how I can define a background for a single table cell in Netscape I'd be very grateful. The problem only occurs on one page of the site, but as it's the index.html, I need to sort something out.

Zeb

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:15 PM

It's the browser of choice in our wan- which at last count had over 11,000 terminals and about 150,000 users

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Bugsy
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:31 PM

I use it for Mudcat and a few other things. I have problems with accessing all the features of Mudcat through Explorer (don't know why) however I must admit that Explorer is Much Much faster.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:35 PM

It's equally true that if you design something in Netscape, IE may make a complete pig's ear of displaying it.  My own feeling is that the failing is usually in IE; that is obviously a subjective impression (though based on experience up to a point) -essentially, if you are serious about designing a website, you have to ensure that it works with both of the two most used browsers.  Like it or not, you must do the research.  If you're not prepared to do that, you shouldn't take on the job .

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:38 PM

I use Netscape, too. I don't have any choice; I use the computer at work and Netscape is what my company chose to install. But I'm satisfied with it.

I certainly like it a lot better than what we have on our computer at home (which is mostly used by my wife and son). There, CompuServe is our ISP so we use the browser that comes from CompuServe. I hate it.

Before that, we used AOL, and I hated that, too.

I have no experience with Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 08:52 PM

I have no idea if this will help or not, but putting the background in the <TR> or <TD> tag may help. I find that Front Page sticks it way up in the commands, and that may cause a problem. I'd try doing it here, but I could really mess up the thread when it loaded an image. What I've got is:

  <div align="center"><center>    

<table border="3" width="300"    

bordercolor="#008080">    

    <tr>    

       <td width="40%"   background="your/graphic/goes/here"><p align="center"><
          font color="#FF0000"          size="7">Experiment</font></p>    

        </td>    

    </tr<>    

</table>    

</center></div>    

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 09:07 PM

that should have been "Putting the background in the <TR> or <TD> tags."

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 09:18 PM

I use netscape too, especially for mudcat. I vastly prefer the bookmark system, and it's one way of protesting how often the idiot windows machines at my job keep breaking down.

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 09:43 PM

I use Netscape up to where AOL started messing with it! 4.73, I think...and it does everything I need! Microsoft is trying to gradually get everything to where EVERYTHING is done to their off-center standards.....FrontPage can't be edited with anything else...IE goes fast enough now, but I hate its interface and 'feel'....

I will NOT use IE until there are NO choices left...and one new choice is Opera...a little browser that is fast becoming REAL good...doesn't have all the tricks yet, but is DAMN good...

but there are MANY millions of loyal Netscape users out there

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library)
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:01 PM

I use netscape when I can. I find it much friendlier than IE.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Alice
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:11 PM

Netscape - love it. I refuse to use IE.

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Matt_R
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:20 PM

I use IE at home and Netscape at the computer lab where I work. I see no real difference, except that IE works sometimes, and Netscape doesn't, and Netscape sometimes and IE won't. I prefer IE.

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Tony Burns
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:23 PM

I use Netscape and do some HTML coding. I've put an image as background in a cell although I don't have any at the moment. However I use a background colour in a cell all the time to give a 'framed' feel without resorting to frames. Take a look at The Rick Fielding site which I designed. Each page is essentially a two celled table with the background colour defined for each cell. You can view the page source to see the code.

btw - I don't use any authoring tools. All HTML is done using NotePad or WordPad.

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:25 PM

Ditto Bill !!!!

At least Netscape doesn't totally reconfigure your PC everytime you load a new component or upgrade!

I have removed everything I can of Microsoft's from my PC inlcuding IE, Mediaplayer, and Outlook.

JAB

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:32 PM

Zeebedee: I used Netscape for several months after I gave up on AOL. I had nothing but trouble using it. I changed to Internet Explorer and have had no problems at all with it.

DougR

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 11:52 PM

I was having trouble with Netscape 4.7 all along - it kept corrupting e-dresses and doing weird things, mostly in the mail program - but i still liked it better than IE. Then along came an e-mail bearing the JScript.KatWorm as a signature file (so you don't have to open an attachment to get nailed), and to hell it went! I understand that if I had been using IE / Outlook, the worm would have infected my whole system, but NS is semi-resistant, and Norton 2K caught it in time to prevent serious problems or spreading. Unfortunately, either the worm or Norton or the battle between them boogered up my mail program badly and wiped out all of my "inbox" files. Rather than uninstall / reinstall the problematic NS Communicator 4.7, I decided to upgrade, and fool that I am succumbed to the temptation to play around on the edge, and downloaded a Beta version of NS Navigator 6 pre-release. This is what I'm presently using.... and it's, welll... "interesting". Definately takes some getting used to, does some weird things (I'm used to that with NS), but has intriguing potential. I like to push the envelope to see how crazy I can get before it crashes, and it seldom dissapoints me! I send my "feedback" reports in regularly, and the silly thing seems to be getting better as I use it; I wonder if they can "tweak" it via applets or something. Tonight I tried to get in to the HearMe room, which I have been doing with ease up 'till now, and it told me it needed a special Java V.2 plugin for NS 6, which i obligingly downloaded - but still no-go. Maybe it'll work after I shut down & reboot; we'll see. I am a little nervous about using anything associated with AOL, but I get the sense that they are repenting of at least some of their past transgressions of late after a blizzard of complaints and a few lawsuits, and are now more likely to write programs that act more like programs and less like mega-viruses. It's a little scary having to choose between MS and AOL; kind of like going to vote! I am in awe of you guys who build web pages out of HTML; I tried learning it once and just got thouroughly flummoxed. But for what it's worth; heres' one more Netscape surfer who has both an intuitive and learned aversion to IE. I have uninstalled and deleted "Outlook" completely!

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 12:43 AM

I use Netscape rather than MSIE. But sometimes, when I want REALLY fast connections, I use Lynx, which is a text-only browser. Lots of folks who want real speed turn graphics off--for true universality, consider having your site be accessible to users of ANY browser, even text only ones. After all, universal access was the great feature the Internet promised when it began--before the folks who design Internet Explorer began to f*** up the protocols.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From:
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 05:30 AM

Zeb, I think you can assume that anyone who doesn't use a Microsoft operating system is likely to use Netscape.

I have a problem with it being on the other side of the international dateline. It refuses to let me to make security connections because my day is wrong. When I used Internet Explorer this didn't happen.

I tend to use Lynx which is a text browser. I suspect I would have difficulty with your site.

Hear, hear, Charlie. However Netscape also uses features that are not part of the internationally agreed HTML. It seems to me that the use of frames is going out of fashion. I can't wait.

Murray

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: dwditty
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:23 AM

I use Netscape for everything except Hearme. Could never get it to work so I use IE for that.

dw

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:44 AM

Zeb, did the suggestions give to you by others in this thread help? I tried a single cell using the table background color and I can see no problems with it in either of my browsers (IE 5 and Netscape 4.7). If you are still stuck, perhaps posting a link to the offending page would be helpful as I think one of the resident HTML experts might be able to spot an error on the page.

As for the use of browsers, I have been through this before but much as I hate MS, I prefer thier product. I need to have both browsers as I do dabble with HTML and I believe it is essential to test anything out on at least these 2 as they can produce different results.

As far as Mudcat is concerned, I would certainly go for IE for 2 reasons. The first is the niggling Netscape Hearme problems which do exist but no one is sure as to what causes them (I suspect Smart Update) and the second is the fact that IE tends to be a lot less sensative to HTML errors. A missing closing quote in a link for example will Lock Netscape up but IE will recover. That is not to say that Netscape is wrong in refusing to pass an error, just in a forum like this where people are posting links and do make mistakes, it is handy to be able to read past them as if nothing was wrong.

The other side to this of course, is if you want to find the source of an error, Netscape is a very useful tool.

Jon

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: GUEST,micca at work
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 07:08 AM

I HATE IE ,but use it at work, and MUCH prefer Netscape which I use at home, and Jon, I get Hearme ok, maybe it works better with certain soundcards???

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: annamill
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 07:30 AM

I use Netscape ant home and at work. I'm a consultant and have been at a few different places this year and they all used Netscape. I even had my e-mail to Netscape.net until they recently messed it up with trying to put in a messenger function. I lost all my e-mail and all my addresses and I've e-mailed them about the problem with no response so far. I will still use Netscape, just not their e-mail.

Too early...

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 08:02 AM

I do NOT use "smart download", which may be why I seldom have problems...and I use Eudora and Agent for mail & news rather than Netscape's built in programs....I got HearMe to work with Netscape first try, and don't have problems.

Seems like the votes are running 2 or 3 to one in favor of Netscape generally. I do wonder in the future if Netscape under AOL's bumbling will continue to keep up...*sigh*...I will wait before trying Netscape 6!!!!

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: annamill
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 01:08 PM

I use Netscape ant home and at work. I'm a consultant and have been at a few different places this year and they all used Netscape. I even had my e-mail to Netscape.net until they recently messed it up with trying to put in a messenger function. I lost all my e-mail and all my addresses and I've e-mailed them about the problem with no response so far. I will still use Netscape, just not their e-mail.

Too early...

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 01:29 PM

Micca, it is not a soundcard issue, I am certain on that. It does not effect everyone and there seems to be little logic as to the why (although I have noted that BillD does not use the Smart Update).

Re the AOL involvement, I have no idea in terms of Netscape but I beleive the newer ICQ versions (and I use one - 2000a) have AOL's involvement. These versions have addiotional fetures and seem to have produced a mixed response from users. My own feeling is that rather than perfect a good program. they have produced a bloated package with needless features, have not addressed the old bugs but have introduced new ones...

Jon

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Fortunato
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 01:57 PM

Netscape spoken here. fortunato

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 03:00 PM

I use four browsers -- 3 IE and one Netscape. I have a nice new IE on my home computer -- but no Internet access! The computer at work has a reasonably good IE, not quite as spiffy as at home but no problems. The computer at the church has an old defective IE on it that needs to be replaced but the secretary doesn't know how and I don't feel authorized. And the public library (where I'm normally online 45 minutes a day--the limit) has mostly Netscape. Actually at the branch I'm now posting from there are 10 public access terminals, about seven with only Netscape and the others with the user's choice. This post is actually coming via IE.

I know my brother prefers Netscape.

Liland

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 04:56 PM

Give me Netscape any day of the week!
The pages fit on my screen - Microcrap's text is too big - it just wraps around to an point where nothing makes any sense.
Mind you - has anyone noticed the similarities between Bill Gates and Kermit the Frog. They both look and sound the same - only Kermit has talent!!!!!!!
Quack!

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 09:44 PM

Netscape 6 is giving me fits; one day it'll work pretty much OK, but recently it comes up with new surprises every time I open it - which is fairly often as it crashes and shuts down regularly. Now it's in a snit and doesn't want to talk to anybody, refusing to connect for unknown reasons. I'm now back on Communicator 4.7, and get absoloutly no response when I click on the HearMe button. I may back out of "Beta" and see what there is between the two. But I'm not ready to go back to IE!

Subject: RE: Who uses Netscape?
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 11:42 PM

I have no trouble with Hearme on Netscape either, but I'm not on the latest version. And I won't use anybody's e-mail any more. I use web based e-mail and keep paper copies of the important stuff. Too many viruses seem to be aimed at the "features" of Outlook or similar programs. I keep e-mail addresses in a little paper notebook, and it works just fine.

Please let frames go out of fashion! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

Go Lynx!