BS: Carrot or Stick?

Subject: Carrot or Stick?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 05:50 PM

"Americans are born into a culture that teaches and celebrates independence, self-reliance, self-sufficiency, self-interest, and self-determination. The American hero is the rugged individualist. This myth has many names but the message is always the same: Success is an individual enterprise and to suggest otherwise is almost un-American. . ."

"Everyone's first task is to 'unlearn' the lessons off individual achievement since in its extreme form, extreme individualism is a form of mental illness because (it indicates the individual is) out of touch with reality". . ."It is far better to tap the resources available in and through personal and business networks. These include ideas, information, leads, business opportunities, financial capital, emotional support, power, influence, goodwill, trust and cooperation."

The above quote is from an article in the business section of our local paper and is from a new book by Wayne Baker, a business authority from the University of Michigan Business School.

During the recent political discussion, comments were made about the effectiveness of competitive (capitalist) approaches as opposed to cooperative (socialist) approaches in motivating people to perform.

As a long time proponent of the idea that people who learn to cooperate, and are allowed to work in a non-threatening environment, will actually out-perform those who's primary motivation is cut-throat competition, I find Mr. Baker's comments quite interesting. I would like to present these remarks and open this subject up for discussion by my esteemed colleagues here at the Mudcat Meeting of the Minds.

To turn this question in a musical direction: Are you more motivated to practice your instrument looking forward to a contest/competition or a jam?

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:43 PM

For the past few days I have been working my guitar-playing fingers to the nubs in order to learn a new song. Why? It is because I have found some local folks with whom to make a bit of music. I am excited about creating an arrangement of this song for the four of us to try. I can hear the other parts in my head and can hardly wait until the next time we get together to hear them for real. Are there any other motivating forces? No, not that I am aware of. This is simply my idea of fun. Did I practice this much before? No.

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 06:49 PM

I feel as though I may have touched upon the question voiced in the first post. But I am left pondering as to how it relates to the quotation. Oh well.

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: GUEST,Ely needs to reset her cookie
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 07:56 PM

Pondering, too . . .

I definitely go for jams (I take it this is the carrot approach?). I found right off that contests are too much of somebody else's idea of good playing for me. On the other hand, jams can accomodate many different levels of ability at once, which is much more encouraging to those who don't have the ability and/or the desire to compete.

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:17 PM

Hi Bartholemew,

I think my answer is that neither one works entirely because I (and I don't think I'm alone) am equal parts slothful and greedy (desirous of adoration) :-) !

John

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:32 PM

I am motivated to practice my instrument for the sheer joy and delight of doing so. It's harder for me to motivate myself to not practice my instrument than it is to motivate myself to practice it.

I think when a person has found something they love to do (either with their music, or their livelihood), and they apply themselves to that thing from the perspective of the love of doing it, that is my definition of success.

That's how I'm connecting your question about music to what the writer of the article had to say.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: Troll
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:35 PM

I don't do contests but I know I practice more and harder if I'm doing something alone instead of with the band.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:38 PM

Hi Bartholemew.

The only motivation I've ever had to practice or play any instrument is the sheer joy I get from it. Practicing specific songs for a concert is a different thing. That's my job, and I'm much more disciplined.

If I had a lotta bucks, I'd probably never go on a stage again, but I'd still play constantly (alone, or for anyone who'd listen) 'cause I love it.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 09:52 PM

Thanks, Carol. I knew there had to be a way. I have to agree that playing or singing music at all is a good definition of success. For me it is all a personal challenge. No matter whether I am playing alone or with others, I am challenged to be the best I can be. It is just that I hear the call of that challenge more clearly when I know someone else is counting on me to learn a song.

There are so many things in my life in which I can find pleasure that I am not particularly driven to seek it out through learning a new song just for my own satisfaction (although I often do so). But book me for a performance...well, there is just no good excuse for disappointing an audience.

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:06 PM

As a teenager I sang a few times in Kiwanis Competitions. The combination of singing in public and competing terrified me so much that always screwed up. I usually received kind comments on the excellence of my recovery but never won a single ribbon. Years later I started going to our local song circle. There I was able to practice singing in front of people who were supportive and not competitive and now I want to do it more and more. I still want to be the best though.

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 00 - 10:12 PM

Allan C.,

It sounds to me like performing is the thing that you love to do (as opposed to just playing music). So if you're doing it, and you love it, it seems to me that would mean that you are a success. (If you're going by my definition of success.)

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Carrot or Stick?
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Nov 00 - 12:21 PM

My biggest motivating force is that I want to be Really Good at What I Do, and that People Will Notice. I like recognition and appreciation but am not so motivated by prizes or money or what have you. I do like being the center of attention, though... ;)