BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!

Subject: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 10:42 PM

For quite some time now, it has been abundantly obvious that the terms "Conservative" and "Folkie" have been generally assumed to have been mutually exclusive; a contradiction in terms, if you will. As one of a very small minority (if you are a Male of European ethnic origin and ever wondered what life is like as a member of a "minority group", try representing yourself as a Folk Musician - even an amature or "wannabe" one - while espousing pro-Life, Pro- Constitution (especially the very no-no 2nd Ammendment) Christian, Patriotic American "Family Values" Conservative beliefs and post regularly here... it'll come very quickly) of Conservative Mudcatters, it gives me great satisfaction to advise fellow downtrodden and regularly maligned Conservatives and "Dittoheads" that even those of us cowering in the closet afraid to come out and get shredded on a regular basis (as I try to do)....

"TADDELAAT-TAADELLAAT-TADDELAAAAAAAaaaaa!!!!" (Virtual Bugle Call): The Cavalry is coming!!!

For months I have tried to persuade, wangle, and beg my dear Amigo and Co-Worker "MAV", who is not only an accomplished Blues Musician, but proud GOP operative and RWE (Right-Wing-Extremist) to check out the "Mudcat", and hopefully get matriculated and active. After his spirited but unsuccessful canidacy for a GOP seat in the Maine State Senate (he was beaten 60:40 by the incumbant Democrat machine in his District), he now has sufficient time to do just that. Last night he tried to find us by going to "Mudcat.com" and found a website of the manufacturer of a very interesting deisel dredge, which you might find as amusing as he did... but I set him right today, and we can be expecting his company here any time now.

If any of you tender hearts think that I'm "bad" with my controversial ideology here, well let me tell ye, folks; ye aint' seen NUTHIN' yet!!! As much as I try to employ a modicum of decorum and discretion in my rantings, all such window dressing is usually flung with abandon to the wind when MAV lets go, as I assure you he will at the first scent of Liberal "spin"! I have warned him that the flower of Liberal intellect is frequently to be found here; (As tight as I am with compliments to those of oppositional political persuasions, there are a couple of you - you know who you are - out there who sincerely deserve them and have, for what it's worth, my respect) he is decidedly NOT intimidated!

Oh, did I tell you?; he's bringing several of his close friends and associates from other Conservative forums along for the fun. Some of them, I understand, are pretty well - connected Lawyers, Educators, Journalists and Conservative Think-Tank contributors, as well as at least one who goes under an anonymous "handle", as most of us do, but we think we know who he is... and it's a name that most of you would recognise (dread?)if you watch or read the news with any regularity. After about one of his posts, I think that even the elite minds in here will quickly realize that some heavy artillery has just taken the field. Oh, sure, there may be a few lumberjack truck-driving cigar-smoking shotgun-toting Limbaugh-loving Bush-Voting NRA Member Hellfire-and-Brimstone Rednecks bringing up the rear, but we'll do what we can to keep 'em under control.

It has been my experience on these other somewhat hardcore forums (which I have essentially abandoned in favor of Mudcat) that if there is any rudeness, "flaming", or insults flying about, we (Conservatives) are in nearly all cases the recipients thereof, and hardly ever the initiators. I will do everything in my sphere of influence to assure that the "flame factor" on "our side" is reduced to and maintained at ZERO. I expect that the standards of decency and civility we have come to expect here will be upheld by all participants, and any who get out of bounds will be dealt with promptly and equatably by our Moderators. I can't gaurentee that no one will get "offended" if they choose to stray from the Music topic into the arena of social/political issues... but darn it; we've been "fair game" for general offence-at-will and better-get-used-to-it behavior while at the same time expected to conform to unwritten mores of "political correctness" with robotic, passive submission for the past 8 years now.... but hello: the ball is in another court, dear hearts, (have you noticed?) and another team is poised to play it.

With teams a little more evenly matched, and one side no longer getting to create the rules as they go along while only the other is obliged to obey them - things could get appreciably more interesting - at least it should approach the level of a Sporting proposition, eh wot?

Stay tuned.. and Stand by!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 10:48 PM

Quidditch Teams, look out. The Slytherins are coming after us........

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Dec 00 - 11:04 PM

Hi Uncle Jaque, don't give *&%$#@%& about your politics, first hand I gotta say that your music's fine though. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: paddymac
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 06:31 AM

Well, spirited debate is a wonderful thing, so long as all parties keep the brain engaged. I find that many ardent philosophisers of differing viewpoints are somewhat befuddled at the suggestion that the so-called political continuum is circular rather than linear. Ah, the joy of it all to realize that you can really get to the left by going far enough to the right. And, of course, the obverse/inverse/converse applies as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: John P
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 07:15 AM

Hi Uncle Jacques,
I find it interesting that you use the term pro-life in the same sentence that you claim to support the 2nd Ammendment. Wouldn't it be more accurate to describe yourself as anti-abortion? Or, if you really are pro-life, wouldn't it be better to put down your gun and encourage others (including the Defense Dept.) to do the same?

You seem to be crowing about having invited a bunch of political ideologues to join the discussion here on Mudcat. Are they musicians or lovers of folk music? Yes, you said your friend plays the blues. Do his important and scary friends? Are they coming here for any reason other than to have political debates?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 07:21 AM

Concise Oxford Dictionary, 1964 edition:

Democratic Party (US): opposed to REPUBLICAN & supporting State, local & individual liberty against federal powers.

Republican Party (US): political party favouring liberal interpretation of constitution, extension of central power.

But then it gives Conservative as meaning disposed to0 maintain existing institutions, moderate cautious.

I suppose "dog" now means a small furry anumal who says "miaow"...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 08:00 AM

The simple fact is that both present-day orthodox liberals and present-day orthodox conservatives are terrified of individual liberty - and of its inevitable concommitant, individual responsibility (but I deny responsibility for spelling of "concommitant).

I need a political party that will defend my right to walk down the street with a gun in one hand and a really terrible pornographic novel in the other (I don't want to do that, I just want to have the option), provided only that I don't shoot anyone, or threaten to, with the gun, or give the novel to a little kid or shove it in the face of someone who doesn't want to read it.

I need a political party that either says "human life is sacred," and therefore opposes both abortion and capital punishment; or says "human life is only sacred sometimes," and therefore considers both acceptable, if a majority wants them.

I need a political party that lets small businesses operate almost totally free of government interference, provided only that they are completely honest in their dealings with customers and others; but considers large corporate businesses to be governments in their own right, for all practical purposes, and is as suspicious of them, and as anxious to restrict their power as much as possible, as it is of any other government.

I need a political party that says every citizen has the same freedoms, the same right to access to government services, and the same responsibilities and the same freedom to fail, without regard to race, sex (not "gender." Words have gender. People have sex. Live with it.)

I need a political party that defends the right to property, while asking, as a serious question that deserves discussion, whether one person can really "own" more real estate than he/she and his/her family needs for a homestead - and if he can, what are the limits on his right to destroy it, in light of the fact that they aren't making any more?

I think adding a few knee-jerk conservatives to the swarm of knee-jerk liberals on this forum will improve the level of interest of the discussion - but it won't produce any better answers until there is really some effort made to meet in the middle.

But maybe it doesn't matter what I need or think, as much as it appears to from my viewpoint....

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 08:24 AM

Dear Uncle:
The British Army and the SAS with their tanks and guns didn't scare me into a change of politics, I don't find your crowd very scary, in fact, we on the FAR left are much less combative than you on the right, to whom expressing a different point of view is often fighting words. On of my dearest friends and neighbors, to give you an example, is a complete good ol boy from Louisiana. About two days ago, we were standing in the cold, in front of his place, disscussing the impeachment of Bill Clinton. I was quiet and respectful, he on the other hand, was bellowing, calling me a F**king pettyfogger, etc. He yelled so loud the cops came. As I said to him, at the time, and I put forward to you know, if you have a point, you don't need volume and threats to make it. Unlike thouse on the right, we on the left belief in a pulralist society that even includes you.
Happy new year,
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST,Thom M.still at work
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 08:32 AM

Hey Jacque,
When you say the ball is in another court you must be referring to the Supreme Court???!!!:)
Thom.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 09:06 AM

"my right to walk down the street with a gun in one hand ...provided only that I don't shoot anyone, or threaten to, with the gun"

Anyone walking down the street, Midchuck, with a gun in their hand is threatening other people. And I'd imagine that even in the "right to bear arms" State in the USA, that is how they would be seen. In fact I'd imagine they'd be very likely to get shot on the spot.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 09:35 AM

Sorcha, been reading your Harry Potter I see.....just started the fourth one last night....

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Troll
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 09:57 AM

And just WHO would shoot them, Kevin? We are not the trigger-happy society that you seem to imagine and our police rarely "shoot first and then ask questions" unless the other guy(s) are ALREADY shooting.
John P, the idea of being "pro-life" has virtually nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. The right to keep and bear arms does not mean the right to use them in an indiscriminate manner. It is both a right AND a responsibility.
I happen to be pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro 2nd amendment. So we aren't all cut from the same bolt of cloth and we don't march in lock-step to the beat of the current ideology.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 10:05 AM

Anyone walking down the street, Midchuck, with a gun in their hand is threatening other people.

All I can say (after supressing my initial reaction to say something personally abusive) is that you'd best stay well away from Vermont - or any of the northern three New England states - during deer season. Your heart might explode from the sheer terror of it all.

(Incidentally, last I heard, Vermont had the "loosest" handgun laws in the Country - no concealed carry permits, because there's no permit requirement at all, in the first place - and the second-lowest per capita violent crime rate, after one or the other of the two Dakotas. We did have a triple homicide in Rutland last week - well, two in Rutland, the third kidnapped and killed over in New York State, where I suppose they figured nobody would notice - but it was all done with blades. That's the great virtue of keeping guns away from people. It makes things easier for the guy who likes a knife. Or the big guy who just likes to beat people to death.)

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 11:07 AM

It's too bad your friend lost in his bid for the state senate...I know how you feel Jaque. A friend of mine lost his bid for the senate too, the republican machine is too strong right now. Old Maine proverb.."It's a long road that has no turns."
That second amendment is very interesting..especially considering that the first part is so unpopular that it is ignored, that thing that says "A well regulated militia..etc"
It was on the news the other day that we had the lowest murder count in Maine's history this year. Is that more due to the economy than to the gun ownership? Maine's equivelent to the second amendment says "The right of the people to keep and bare arms shall NEVER BE QUESTIONED! Now, that, to me, is pure lunacy. With that kind of "right" it's a wonder the state isn't full of "gunslingers".

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 11:29 AM

Great Thread Uncle J.! Gave me my smile for the day. I'm afraid that you'll find your Limbaugh-lovin' friends won't stay around very long though (if they actually DO show up) 'cause it'll simply be too boring for them around here. By about the tenth "Atlantean-Native-Happy Birthday-war sucks-song circle, Tam Lin, Riley Puckett's thumbpick, Catspaw's possum thread, they'll run screaming back to their real world.

We're a bunch of fuzzy, sucky, cuddly folkies here......and that's why you love us!

Although it would be fun to read Ditto-heads discussing the music of Phil Ochs.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 11:46 AM

Sinsull, here." the third kidnapped and killed over in New York State, where I suppose they figured nobody would notice "
Contrary to popular mythology, we New Yorkers notice, Midchuck. Our gun laws are set up so that only the bad guys can carry them. I choose not to simply because I know I could not shoot anyone and consequently would be supplying my attacker with another weapon.But I come from a family of hunters and gun enthusiasts and, Liberal as I am, believe that people capable of understanding the safe and proper handling of a gun should be legally allowed to carry one. Accordians are another matter. And watch the New York bashing!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 11:55 AM

Rick, BRILL! Thank you for saying that!!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 12:11 PM

Contrary to popular mythology, we New Yorkers notice, Midchuck....And watch the New York bashing!

Sorry. I neglected to make the distinction between New York Above Albany and New York Below Albany.

Actually, the 'Daks are my favorite place to run away from responsibility to...3/4 hour to the Champlain Bridge, and another 3/4 to the High Peaks...and no one can find me. And you don't need a gun in the Adirondacks, I've never yet met a mean bear...few Frenchmen, tho...

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 12:13 PM

What's wrong with New york bashing?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 12:24 PM

Besides, Uncle J, the first time one of the "Conservative Cavalry" come upon a discussion of why Bill Clinton should NOT get the death penalty for oral sex, they'll think we're BEYOND redemption, and run back to the 700 club! Oh hell, maybe I'm wrong, and they'll get a few smiles from Mudcat, like most of us (and you) do.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 12:27 PM

Hi troll
Just like my old day was a free thinking Marxist, I always apreciate that you are not a cookie cutter right wing thinker. I supose we could call our troll a thoughtful concerative
Still waiting for Uncle Jaque's storm troopers of doom, with open arms and an open mind
(and a cup of hot cider, cinnimon, nutmeg and rum for them, it is cold here)
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST,CLETUS
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 01:25 PM

Catspaw woant lettus have no guns roundt hiz house senz he doan want the kids a gittin into em ur nuthin. 'Course he woan lettus play "Sink the Cheerios" in his toilets no more either. An ta tell yall the truth, me an Paw an the Reg boyz doan use guns too much now senz thet time a few years back thet we had one uv them huntin axseedents. We hadda few an went out ta git us a deer ur sumpin an we wound up gittin our buddy Buford. We dint report it ur nuthin but Paw said a few words over him.

EULOGY FOR BUFORD

O Lord, take our good buddy Buford into thy Heavenly Herd. He was a good ol' boy who knew that 27 was his limit, 'les somebody else was drivin'. So you gotta' forgive him for wearin' that brown coat with the white fanny pack 'cause it was about all he had left to wear after his ex sicced that lawyer fella' on him for back child support. And God, please bestow your benediction on me an Cletus. We had no way aknowin' that Buford had fallen into that dead and rottin' sycamore and got that funny lookin' branch stuck in his coonskin hat. 'Sides that Lord, there MUSTA' been sumpin' wrong with them three Head Cheese sandwiches that Buford had with his beers. I mean when he has aretchin', well me and Cletus woulda' swore it was a buck in rut. So long Buford, we'll miss yuh. We're awful sorry, but I know you understand...'specially since you had a kinda' similar thing happen a few years back with your ex-brother-in-law, Hiram. Dear God, please take our friend's soul to your bosom and forgive him his earthly transgressions. Cletus and me are gonna' take his beat up ol' pick-up and his Ithaca and leave his dead ass right here...'cause ain't nobody else gonna' miss him. Plus, the S.O.B. didn't have no money and we can't afford no funeral or any more trouble with the Law. AMEN

It all turt out OK tho an it shor wuz lucky whut we dint bury the ol' boy cuz he wuz jest nocked senseless cuz the shot hit him inna backpack whair he wuzza haulin a 12 pack uv Iron City. So we kinda figgered we shud givvup on either the beer or the guns so we figgered weed stick with the beer.

CLETUS

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 01:55 PM

Walk down the street with a gun in my hand

The operative words being those in italics. I know there are people who like to go off into the woods and blaze away at anything that moves, including each other. The British Royal Famuily is full of guys like that. But wandering down a street in a city or town with a gun in your hand? Wyatt Earp knew how to deal with that sort of behabviour...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: paddymac
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:06 PM

Kevin - Hmm, I understand that the traditions and thought processes relating to guns are quite different on our respective sides of the pond. I don't know that access of the bad guys to firearms (often illicit) is significantly different in the two systems, but access by the decent folks in lawful fashion is very much different. Generally, citizens here are restricted in the sense of required licensure to carry concealed weapons, but in most jurisdictions it is perfectly legal to carry a lawful weapon that is not concealed. Many states have game laws prohibiting transport of loaded rifles and shotguns in vehicles.

Perhaps, in that mythical perfect world, firearms would be inane, but here in the collective real world they are a very utilitarian device. I wonder what Northern Ireland would be like if the innocent families fire-bombed by dunder-headed dolts could lawfully possess defensive firearms, and use them to defend their "castles."

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:34 PM

Sinsull here. I give up. Bash away. I live below Albany in NYC. But all that gun blasting hasn't left me tone-deaf so I wandered in here.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:53 PM

I can assure you there is no shortage of legally owned guns in Northern Ireland! And it's not restricted to "decent folk".

But if you noticed, I wasn't actually sounding-off against that right-to-bear-arms stuff. I was suggesting that there are situations where carrying a gun in your hand is not a reasonable thing to do.

On the occasions I have had to carry a gun (all legal), the only time I would ever have had it in my hand would have been when I was planning to shoot it. Slung over your shoulder, or in the crook of the elbow is one thing, but "in your hand" is something very different.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 02:56 PM

Ah Sins darlin'....There I was, tryin' to brighten your day by letting Cletus use the computer ...... I'm so sad.

So are you and the Cap'n havin' a great time? Hope so.....love you both.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: WyoWoman
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 03:02 PM

I think poor MAV just read the introductory remarks and bailed. At any rate, if you do end up dropping in, welcome. All Gawd's chillen got a place in the choir, as long as they're prepared to shoulder their share of generally good-hearted b.s. There are some evil wankers here as well, but happily, they are not armed bears, and even if they are, the bullets are virtual and verbal.

Welcome, WyoWoman

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST,pistol packin' mama
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 03:27 PM

Actually, in my state (USA) McGrath of Harlow is right. I carry a concealed weapon and have for years. There are specific laws pertaining to carrying a concealed weapon, including that it must be kept completely out of sight because the mere sighting of the weapon by someone can cause fear and dread, and is thus interpreted as a threat.

I am a regular here at Mudcat, but have decided to remain anonymous, since I do meet some of you and don't want to make anyone feel threatened or afraid. (Gosh, I hope I logged out properly! I'll be mortified and embarassed if my name shows up) I am conservative, and I love it here. I am not very outspoken, but I love to read it all and take it in. I appreciate being able to see both sides...

Pistol packin' mama

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 04:47 PM

I certainly welcome any intelligent discourse. And Uncle Jaque, I have no doubt you bring that to the table even if i don't agree with everything the conservative sector of our fair land has to offer. I don't reject it all out of hand. I believe in the validity of the second amendment but there should be some limit. After all, why the hell would you need an assault rifle unless you were house hunting in say Bosnia? I am by the way, a gun owner and a Civil War reenactor. Having said that, I have to also point out that I view myself as a middle of the road liberal. I don't agree with sanctioned government school prayer because it is always Christian. Being Roman Catholic myself, I have absolutely nothing against prayer, I am in fact in favor of it personally. However, it is not my right or anyone elses including and especially our government's to force those of Jewish, Islamic, Bhuddist, Wiccan etc. religions to put up with it. That violates their constitutional rights and I spent too long in service to my country and constitution to abide that. The "Religious" Right has an agenda that I personally find frightening to anyone who values their freedom. The government of this country was never meant to be a theocracy. Midchick, Though I am a supporter of the second amendment, I would find someone walking down the street with a gun in their hand threatening. Sorry. Cletus, if you had been using those teflon jobbers that Dick Cheney likes so much you'da been draggin' ole Buford's butt outta them thar woods. Again, welcome to all and a splendid New Year. Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 04:59 PM

Spaw - Sins here. I don't take New York bashing seriously especially when it comes from Midchuck. He is practicing to be our resident curmudgeon but is too likeable to carry it off. The Captain is the perfect host - dragged me to a Maritime Museum in blizzard conditions. Half the exhibits were closed and the other half unheated. We hiked a quarter mile (I had no boots) through drifts and ice to see the Lobsterman exhibit but the "man" (Kendall's voice - really!) was shut down for the season so we hiked back and thawed out in the Museum Shop.
The food is good; the setting quiet - I needed a break. And the music is close to perfect but don't let him know I said that. It will go to his head.
I was pleased to see Cletus posting again after his Christmas accident. Poor boy gets into so much trouble without even trying. And it's always a pleasure to re-read Buford's Eulogy. Happy New Year. And to those with guns: Remember that if you shoot bullets into the air to celebrate, they can come down and hit people in the head.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 05:05 PM

Irish S, what the heck do you mean by "However, it is not my right or anyone elses including and especially our government's to force those of Jewish, Islamic, Bhuddist, Wiccan etc. religions to put up with it." Don't they pray too? Pistol packin' mama

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 05:21 PM

I wonder if we ought to try to find some real left wingers as well, to complement the vaguely pink woolly liberalism that so often goes (including in my case)with the vaguely white arran sweater (and beard). Sort of a bit left of centre is about as hard left as I've seen here, and even InOBU whose views I respect even if I often disagree with them (particularly when Ireland is mentioned) really doesn't seem to be violently left wing. The furthest I've ever seen him go was to advocate a general strike. It's a long way from "Aux barricades!". I used to know a few at university, including a brilliant economist who despite his Marxism got a first from a professor who was somewhere about the Monday Club position in right/left terms. They all thought of me as somewhat right of centre, and I have a hard time staying civil to those of the type this thread invites.

Then the rest of us can leave those to whom this thread is addressed, and my invitees, to sort each other out, and go off to talk about folk music or something.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 05:36 PM

My goodness; I expected howls of outrage and indignation here after dropping that last grenade in the pool, and am not totally disapointed... but am considerably encouraged by what seems like much more commonality of core humanitarian values between us than our idealogical "labels" parties, or denominational persuasions might superficially indicate to the casual observer. Is that a yearning for Liberty I hear coming from some on the "Left"? Is that a sweet song of Compassion wafting in from the "Right"? Could it Be? Might we hope?

I sense a lot of diverse interpretations of common terms, possibly creating tangles of misunderstanding amongst us, but plenty of potential for concilliation, reduction of suspicion/fear and enhancement of mutual trust and respect between participants willing to engage in the proccess. COMMUNICATION is key here, Mates - IMHO, and that's what we're here for. isn't it?

I wouldn't worry about an onslaught of Conservative "Slythians" or whatever we're supposed to be troubling Mudcat any more that a troop of Irish Dragoons would be a serious threat to the Austrian Empire... but it might be interesting! And the "game" analogy: not all of us on the "Right" might subscribe to this, but personally, I'm looking for a match where after a spirited play, BOTH teams - as well as the Spectators - come off "Winners" and off to a good Pub to celebrate together. Am I dreaming? Yeah, I do that sometimes.

Barry: That's the Spirit, Mate! Thanks for the compliment; your songs are delivered with wonderful energy and spirit, which I very much enjoy and admire. Right up there on the topsl' yard! Hang on tight & hope to see(and hear) you soon at the next one!

Paddymac: MAV and I were just discussing that "Circular continuum" concept yesterday - he disputes it, and I'll let you take it up directly with him.

JP: That's a loaded one, and I hope to get back to it. We'll talk. Yes, several of MAV's associates are into one form of music or another, and I concurr with a later posting that the "GOBs", if they are not musically inclined, will probably not hang about long... and that's pretty OK by me, too. It is unfortunate that a lot of rude, uncivilized slobs come off or present themselves as "Conservatives"; those are usually the encouters people remember, and as much as we know better than to stereotype, we all do it, don't we?

McGrath: Oxford Dictionary you say? I will have to check that out - the descriptions you provide seem to me to be "switched" completely; Even a superficial examination of 20th Cen. American History will indicate that Democratic theory seems to encourage bigger, more intrusive Government, and increasing it's subject's dependance upon it. Conservatisim, on the other hand, encourages free enterprise, personal accountability, and entrepunarial risk-taking as well as local and personal autonomy. Now I read a previous thread where a Subject of the Crown (was it you?) advised us that American and British concepts of "C" and "L" should not be confused, as they are not all that closely related. How about Canada? Perhaps we should examine this distinction more closely before we continue this discussion on an international basis.

MIDCHUCK: TAKE HEART, my friend!!! There IS a political party for you! Or I should say, perhaps, for "us", as my personal proclivities are actually as much if not more alligned with this band as with the GOP - we just realized that if anything of significance is to be achieved in the interest of National integrity (if not survival) that it is best done via the medium of a viable party with potentially electable candidates... at least for now. This Party, dear Heart, is known as the "LIBERTARIAN" Party (although I heard that they are considering a name change to counter the public "Who-the-Hell-are-THEY??" factor). Check out .

Kendall: Wanna trade machines? Ours could use a good lube-job, as it seems a bit rusty of late, and there might be a few parts missing, but there are those of us who are workin' on it. Give 'er another pull, MAV; I think we almost got it started that time... As much as I revere your wisdom and insight, Sir, I might question how straight that long road is; seems like a few travellers missed a curve here and there & ended up in the aldar swamp! From what Friend MAV tells me of his experience, the ruts and potholes along the way are a caution!

And on "Organized" Militia; we've also been discussing that very thing - or at least I have been raising the issue - among associates and organizations I belong to. Organization is of equal, if not greater significance than whatever firepower Citizens might have tucked away in the closet in the defence of hearth, home, and Liberty. Look what it's done for Labor. Have you noticed what the NRA has been up to over about the past year? We're slow, but I think we're learning. With the economy here in Maine, I suspect that many of the Working Class cannot afford a gun to sling.

Larry: You flatter us, Sir, by your assumption that we are sufficiently organized as to qualify as "Storm Troopers". I think that you'll find most "Cs" to be about as motley a crew as any. That cider sure sounds good t' me!

Gotta run, but will try to get back to ye later. We've been having a lot of trouble with constipated internet up here (got locked out of Mudcat immediately after posting thread and just got back in) and the Nor'Easter moving in for the weekend won't help things any - so if us Mainers drop out of sight for a bit, it ain't 'cause we're skairt off or nuthin!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: InOBU
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 06:14 PM

Hi Jaques: Kust kidding ya about the Storm troopers, you were the one who referred to them as calvery, gotta say though, they gotta be the slowest calvery I ever waited for, I think the Indians already won, old sport.
Hi Richard, I am a rather open minded, rabble rouser, however, I do carry and IWW union card and organised the first branch of SDS at NYC law school... I even used to have red hair in my beard until it all went grey!
Cheers all... I don't even hear hoof beats yet...
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 06:46 PM

"a troop of Irish Dragoons would be a serious threat to the Austrian Empire"

They sure as hell were, if they happened to be on the other side at the time!

That wasn't an an English undertsanding of what the words mean - it was an interpretatiin from an English point of view of how the politics of America worked out in the early 60s. And a pretty - plausible one. People forget these things, and politics changes.

Hell, there was a time when the Labour Party in GB was Socialist (and pretty conservative with a small c...)

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 07:45 PM

Meant to insert a link to the Libertarian Party, but it vanished! I could look up the FAQ about rigging blue clickies, or just try www.lp.org so it might be copy/pasted or whatever.

Yes, the horses are a little slow this time of year in Maine. The long-eared ones are particularly recalcitrant. We're roundin' 'em up, though! Oh, by the way; MAV is partially decended from the Plains Cherokee... and tough rascals they are, indeed! Put a War Party of Cherokee and a Troop of Irish Dragoons on the same side of an issue, and the bloomin' world had better look out, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: WyoWoman
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM

I'm descended from the Cherokee as well, and I don't much think the description 'war party of Cherokee' quite works. Maybe Cheyenne, but not Cherokee ...

just a thought ...

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM

Funny you should mention what the NRA has been up to..tell him Rick..tell him about the fox hunt protesters who were shown as angry gun owners. How about the angry, honest gun owners in Canada who turned out to be neo nazis? Tell him Rick... I wrote to the lying bastards and they never answered...I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 10:36 PM

That was me actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 10:42 PM

WW: There is a strong possibility that I have gotten tribes confused here; MAV has been educating me on Indian heritage and history, but I admit having a lot left to learn. It is fascinating.

Sinsull: as soon as I saw "SINSULL" I knew that the stick I've been poking around with just met a landmine! None of those incedents you mention ring a bell with me. Could you elaborate (as soon as you decend from the ceiling fan, that is) or give a link to a credable source?

If it's any consolation, they never reply to any of my personal messages either - but I don't take it quite as personally as you seem to. They are a huge organization, and ever, it seems, in the proccess of re-inventing themselves - sort of like Al Gore, only different. I got dissed with the NRA and quit some years ago over what I considered "inflamatory rhetoric" from XVP Wayne LaPierre calling Federal BATF Agents "Jack-Booted Nazi bucket-helmeted Thugs" and the like. Then came Ruby Ridge, and Waco, and Illian Gonzalez... along with a host of relatively "minor" atrocities which the dominant press seems to have overlooked.. and I sent in my letter of appology to Mr. LaPierre along with my dues.

Now if you were to conduct a "free-association" test on me and said, as you just did, "Lying Bastard", my probable response would be "WJC". Yours is "NRA". So, we're different. Your bourbon balls still rule, though!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 10:49 PM

Actually I got over being angry at that Kendall. The NRA infomercial has been shown several times now, and it's quite hilarious. There was substantial response in a number of Canadian Newspapers and phone in radio shows....and guess what? The Australian and British press have had a field day with it as well. I think the capper was seeing (several times now) the Charleton Heston AUTOGRAPHED bullet, as a reward for joining the NRA. Look, it's only a matter of a few years before you take us over for good, but in the meantime, it's hard to take them seriously. Folks who blow away others in the workplace we DO take seriously.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST,guestMAV
Date: 29 Dec 00 - 11:29 PM

Actually I just found out about the thread (11:15 EDT)

I'm not as mean-spirited and cruel as you may imagine by now, But I don't take kindly to obvious "big lie" propaganda and ad hominem attacks.

I do indeed play on occasion having been in bar bands most of my life ranging from horn bands in the 70s to shaking in my boots on the stage of the Apollo theater in the 90s(we didn't get booed)

We represented Maine for several years in the Blues Rumble in Alston MA and were finalists one time but got beat out by Miss Shirley Lewis (but bless her, she deserved a win and the recording contract that went with it)

We wound up calling lots of stuff blues including old rock and roll and swing.

I think my main awareness of conservativism came as a self employed musician and the issue of self-employment tax. THOSE THIEVING BA$+@RD$!

Laissez les bon temps roulez.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 09:18 AM

I too pay self employment taxes..how else are we going to support all those deserving weapons manufacturers? I'm just glad I'm in a position to be able to pay taxes. One of the things that griped me was seeing that creep LaPierre bashing Slick Willy for lying, when he was sitting there doing the same thing! I'd hate to have his nerve in a tooth!
By the way, Jaque, that was not Sinsull, it was I who posted that info on the National Rifle Assination.
Does anyone know if the Michigan congressman won or lost? He was a lifelong NRA supporter, except that he supported trigger locks..then they targeted him for defeat.
Can you wxplain what the gun nuts have against trigger locks? Furthermore, I will not buy any weapon that is NOT made by S&W. They had the guts to stand up to the gun lobby, and I admire that.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: GUEST,A concerned citizen
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 09:26 AM

...Watch out New Year's Eve Kendall!!!! You might fall over a tree root in a revelous moment and shoot off your nuts!!!! hg

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 10:15 AM

This is SINSULL! Jacque - it takes a lot more than the NRA and gun control discussions to get me up to the ceiling fan. I even have an autographed picture of Moses (Heston) from the NRA - a joke given to me by an ex-member. Kendall on the other hand...
My problem with the NRA is their need to defend the carrying of ALL arms. Why does anyone NEED to have a weapon designed for mass murder? You would turn a deer into chop meat with one. On the other hand, you could wipe out fifty men in the blink of an eye, couldn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 10:32 AM

Normally I avoid adding to the flames but I would like to make a comment to all this recent US political invective. I actually respect and like many people on here who do not share my political views. We all recognise the importance of balanced, thoughtful, and expressed opinion. However, the threads on the Mudcat have become very political, and very disturbing lately. As a conservative, I have begun to feel very intimidated and unwelcome on this forum... Perhaps you might all lighten up a bit please? It is after all, supposed to be the Season Of Goodwill. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 12:15 PM

Happy new Year dave.

Sometimes I feel a bit like a fish out of water as well, 'cause of my lack of religion, and suspicion of the folks who carry the mantle of liberal leadership. I think that Clinton, Jesse Jackson and NOW demonstrated unbelievable hypocrisy over the last few years. Gore as well. But it's still hard not to see the humour in people like Bush, Rush, Falwell, Dr. Laura and Pat Robertson, having so much influence on so many people. I try to think of myself as a liberal who decides for myself what positions I take on individual issues. Gets ya in deep doo-doo with both sides!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 12:39 PM

So far the thread seems to have stayed reasonably polite at an interpersonal levl, which I see as the first rule of engamgement in thes thing. The second rule being to bring in songs wherever relevant.

Reading what kendall was saying about the NRA reminded me of something that has puzzled me everytime this comes up.

I'm happy to live in a country where guns are seen by most people as not being much fun or much use. But that's beside the point. I can recognise that for millions of Americans it's different, for all kind of reasons. And by and large, whether it's because they want to go out adn shoot wild creatures, or are scared of burglars, they are sane and sensible people.

But how does it come about that they are represented by this bunch of crazies who seem to be opposed to the kinds of sensible limitations that a group representing gun-owners should be campaigning in support of?

It's as if the main motorists' lobby was made up of Hell's Angels. Except that is unfair to Hell's Angels, who don't campaign against brakes on motor vehicles.

I'm pretty sure that if the Automobile Association here, and whatever equivalent you've got over in the States, were inveighing against driving tests and against all speed limits, and in favour of people driving tanks on the road - well, I don't think it would have many members for long.

And in keeping with my second rule here is a song about a shooting accident

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry Enroute!
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 00 - 01:12 PM

I'll tell you how...because fear is the basis of ALL hatred. Hitler was aware of that, so is the NRA. They play upon mans fear, and it works. Now before anyone flames me..I am NOT saying the NRA are Nazis.