Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo

Subject: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: GUEST,Mary Dailey
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 07:06 PM

I am learning the song "Pretty Maid Milking the Cow" and the last line contains the above phrase. I am wondering what the English translation is and also the correct phonetic pronunciation. Can anyone help? I'll check back with this thread on Thursday. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 07:51 PM

The English title is a pretty direct translation of the Irish. Pronunciation is roughly:

coll-een-das-kri-te-na-mow. The kri is short!

Regards

p.s. must learn standard phonetics some time!

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 07:59 PM

It's something like "colleen jass crootcha na more" - at least that's how the Grehan Sisters from Boyle, County Roscommon, sang it.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 08:03 PM

Harking back to my schooldays and remembering Mary may have no idea of how Irish sounds - the stress is ONE-two-three,ONE-two-three-ONE!

Good Night!

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Matt_R
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 10:25 PM

mBo. Heh.

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Jimmy C
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 01:31 AM

Go with Martin for the pronounciation on this one.

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Fiolar
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 01:21 PM

Once more please remember that the pronounciation of Irish differs from place to place. For example a Donegal Irish speaker pronounces words different to say a Connaught speaker which is different again to a Munster speaker. I would pronounce the phrase as "Col-lean das crew-te neh mow."

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 02:04 PM

hey thanks my pea brain had never made the connection colleen/cailín, it took me long enough to stop pronouncing bodhran the way it looks!
Is mBo the Cow then??

Roger

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 03:16 PM

Fiolar

Of course! In fact in this case both "cruite" and "crúite" spelings are used, reflecting the two extremes. I was brought up on Munster Irish and am contedly biassed about it!

Regards

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Alice
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 03:47 PM

I've heard it sounding like "croothen". Where would it be pronounced "th" instead of "t", or is that Totally incorrect?

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:50 PM

Alice

I'm no expert - but given that we Irish are notorious for never pronouncing "th" correctly in English, it's a fairly safe be that we don't have an equivalent sound in Irish!

Regards

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: GUEST,JimO'Meara
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:36 PM

The mispronunciation of "th" by the Irish is the cause of the famous "dese" and "dose" and "dem" of NY and Chicago, so I'd guess thats as close as you get in the Irish

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 11:31 AM

I never could figure out why on the Fureys version of "Bunch of Thyme" one of the lines comes out as "Thoime brings all tings to my mind..."

Always confused the hell out of me anyway! BTW - read Bill Brysons "Mother Tongue" to see Irish gaelic described as being two seperate languages - the written and spoken. Designed by 2 seperate committes who did not speak to each other!!!

Dave the Gnome (who speaks only English and fluent jibberish)

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Fiolar
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 01:14 PM

It may be that there is no "th" sound in the Irish language, so a native Irish speaker would never need to use the sound. Later when using English, the use would continue. Mind you the Celtic languages were in use long before English was ever even thought of.To Martin Ryan - me too and proud of it. To Alice - "croothen" is just the sound of "cruite" and "na mbo" pushed togther making it sound as "croothen amow."

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: GUEST,Mary Dailey
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 03:19 PM

I am so delighted to now have a pronunciation that I can assert is at least one authentic way to say it and also to know what it means. Many thanks!

Subject: RE: Cail'in deas cr'uite na mBo
From: Alice
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 07:16 PM

thanks, Fiolar. I do have the music with the Gaelic written in the last line (and am aware of the correct way it should be) and then an English phonetic spelling under it- that's where they ran everything together and used th. I was thinking I had heard it like that somewhere, but it's that I saw it written in a songbook. I've misplaced it - a songbook of Irish "classics" - all copyright Warner Brothers. I think I mentioned it in the previous old thread we had about this song.