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PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb
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Subject: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Noreen Date: 11 Feb 01 - 04:56 PM Welcome one and all to tonight's song circle. Seven in already. Come and pull up a chair and bring your favourite tipple! Noreen |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Noreen Date: 11 Feb 01 - 05:02 PM To take part, you need to download Paltalk from http://www.paltalk.com/ and install. Ask for help here if you have any problems. Noreen |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 11 Feb 01 - 06:39 PM nobody in here... |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Noreen Date: 11 Feb 01 - 08:59 PM Yes, Dave, we had a good hour and a half in the open room, but then it got VERY busy -must have been 20 or so in, lots of non- catters, hard work to admin, so we moved over to the snug where there was a far more relaxing atmosphere. I posted a new thread inviting all into the snug, before you posted to this thread. Noreen |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 11 Feb 01 - 09:39 PM Just re-opened the room. 5 in now. Any more takers? Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 11 Feb 01 - 10:41 PM Still going strong... in case any more want to come along. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:16 AM Refresh....Thanks for letting me know that Noreen. Figured it was a private party and I accepted an invite to a friends birthday party music room. Jon opened the Song Circle; and we had a wonderful time for several hours. You chose not to join us? Regards. Dave |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:23 AM Still going strong. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: alison Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:24 AM still going strong.. some great newcomers...... wonderful guiatarists and singers... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:38 AM Noreen, quite frankly I am disgusted in you. I thought that I made it clear when I re-opened the Song Circle room that it was availible for use and not to be part of a fall out/ division and yet you still seem to feel the need to draw comparisons with something I said was there to take or leave: "so we moved over to the snug where there was a far more relaxing atmosphere" why not just go there in the first place and leave my room out of it if you do not like it - that is what I requested - or can you not be happy if my room dares to exist? You have taken on Admin duties, have 20 people in and then close the room on them, or a portion of them? That is awful. I am not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for those who had to go and lock themselves away from "outsiders", some of whom are likely to have been every bit as good as Mudcatters but that is not my problem. Mine is simple: I do not appreciate my room being opened to then slam the door in the face of some of those present. As for the actual numbers, we have managed with 35+ without an admin struggling to cope - 20 should be easy. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: alison Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:58 AM I have to ask.... if you were at a real folk club, or the pub.. do you shut the door when you get more than 20 in? I doubt it...... It is very easy to get a list of "catters" who are online (or that you feel comfy with), and invite them personally into a private room .... why not do that? I do think it is rude to slam the door in peoples faces........ I hate to think what the ones you closed the room on think........ if anyone opening a room intends to do that.. then please open the "locked' room or a private one.. rather than get Jon's room a bad reputation.... which is what will happen..... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Amergin Date: 12 Feb 01 - 02:35 AM Well, shit, I'm sorry I missed it....but then I had the chance to shake the fabulous Jez Lowe's hand..... |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Ella who is Sooze Date: 12 Feb 01 - 04:54 AM Hi all... I went in to paltalk last night, but all I could see was the Mudcat snug... (Sunday evening) Now... is there another name for the general one... or is it still the Song circle... I couldn't see any fitting that discription... Oh sigh!!!! Ella |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Amergin Date: 12 Feb 01 - 05:00 AM No, Ella, it's just that since we're all trying to avoid you, we decided to try and hide the room.... |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Ella who is Sooze Date: 12 Feb 01 - 05:10 AM ohhhhhhhhhhh! ermmmmm.... ahhh ... that's not nice! |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Ella who is Sooze Date: 12 Feb 01 - 05:11 AM shove it up your old whazooooooo... lol |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 05:32 AM Amergin, I hope you enjoyed Jez Lowe. He is one of the best I have ever had the pleasure of hearing live. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: nutty Date: 12 Feb 01 - 10:47 AM Jon - Please don't have a go at Noreen - I opened the room for an early session ( 9.45GMT ) and Noreen joined me as admin as we were having to deal with one of our unwelcome guests ( he was being more annoying than anything else ) If it had not been for her support I probably would have had to close the room at some point When I did leave, Noreen continued to run the session but had very few mudcatters to support her as, unfortunately, a number of them had gone to the other room |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Noreen Date: 12 Feb 01 - 10:57 AM I'm very sorry, Jon that I disgust you. I posted to this thread and the 'snug' one to explain what had happened, to be open and honest rather than to "draw comparisons" as you put it. I am happy to be a part of either or any Mudcat room, I have not taken a personal stand on it, as some here seem intent on doing, but if you'd rather I will "leave your room out of it". Don't worry, Jon, I don't go where I am not wanted. Unfortunately, I see this as being more divisive rather than less- I can now see that there could be a time where Jon's room and the snug are both open at the same time (which as far as I know has not happpened before) with people having to choose and be seen to be 'taking sides', a horrible concept. Dave, you were personally invited into the snug, as well as the general invite in the thread. I get the feeling that you are trying to mislead people about the intentions of those opening the snug. I hope I'm wrong. Alison, I don't choose to run a folk club and the comparison is not valid. The numbers in the room were not the main problem. If anyone would like to discuss this further, I am happy to do it by PM but I'm tired of this. Noreen |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: GUEST,Matt_R Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:06 AM Who in their right mind would want to avoid Ella??? She's a doll! |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Katcina Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:09 AM Ella, Dear! Please excuse amergin and ignore anything untoward he may have to say. The poor fellow has a slight problem expressing himself properly. We should have empathy for the developmentally challenged and try to help them to learn better communication skills. PLEASE do not disparage or sink to his level. It only encourages and reinforces such behavior. You are too much of a lady to sink to such levels. Sincerely, Katcina |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Morticia Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:51 AM It was my idea to open the snug and I am not at all sorry.There were 20 odd people in the main room, almost all unknown to me, and, as accomplished as I'm sure they were, they were not singing folk or blues music which is my preferred choice of music......which is why I am a Mudcat member.The last thing I, or anyone else, wants I am sure is some sort of "choose sides" battle over this,and I fail to see why it is developing that way.The snug is an alternative for those who prefer a smaller room.....we can't all like the same things, what is the big deal? |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:56 AM Noreen, if I unfairly had a go at you in public which I have done I will apologise to you in public. Sorry Noreen. I do however wish that you had explained that you had a visitor that you couldn't cope with as reading your posts in this thread with no other knowledge still reads (to me) the way I had interperted without that one vital piece of information together with the comment about the snug being more cozy. Nutty and Noreen, can one of you please explain what the problem was and why you did not use the bounce option. If someone is severely disrupting the room(which he/she must have been if it was driving people away and forced the closure of he room) all you need to do is warn and bounce and the problem is gone for 24 hours - that is what the option is there for. As for the 2 rooms being opened at the same time, that may or may not happen - I have no idea. I came to PalTalk late having watched the snooker final and opted to go to one of the other rooms which I enjoyed until the live accoustic music they were playing changed to heavy metal recordings. The snug had been closed for a while by that time. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:12 PM Morty, there is no big deal or battle. As for the choice of music, I clearly state in my rules that my room is for live folk and blues. I also state that some degree of tolerance will be given to other genres (if it were rigidly enforced even some Mudcatters would be very restricted in their normal repertoirs) and place that in the hands of the person(s) in charge of the room. Neither I nor the room can be held responsible for what an admin deems as acceptable leeway. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: GUEST,Wanda Tinasky Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:13 PM Well said, Katcina. Let's hope our handsome Amergin isn't offended by your jests and takes your remarks in the spirit in which they are offered! That Noreen is a plucky lady, is she not? And as smart as Jon is, he will certainly find more solutions to our little winter problems, eh? |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Katcina Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:21 PM Jon, I do not know about last evening, but I have had the occurance of bouncing the same person twice in the same evening and them still being able it enter the room. I went to Pal Talk Admin and told them of the problem and was given what is supposed to be the solution for future such happenings. I hope that I never have to resort to it but I am glad to know that it is there for my use any time I may need it. NathanT, Dave(TAM), and I were all @ at the time and both Dave and I had this person on our Pal list and blocked so he should not have been able to even enter to begin with but someone made it a point to keep inviting him knowing it would cause trouble. I left Dave and Nathan with the room long enough to go to Pal Talk with the problem. After talking with them I had no further problems that night. If anyone else runs in to the same thing I hope they will either go to Pal Talk and tell them what is happening or atleast have me pm them how to supposedly solve the delima. Both Dave and I keep a current list of the major trouble makers on our Pal lists and have them blocked to avoid as much trouble as possible. We are both more than willing to share the list with anyone that would care to do the same thing and will also provide the reasons these persons are on a blocked list. Sincerely, Katcina |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Amergin Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:28 PM Jon, the problem can get back in the room if some one is inviting him in....and yes Jon as to Jez Lowe, I think I have a new favorite! Katcina, "developmentally challenged"?lol Guest, Wanda, "our handsome Amergin" is it?lol
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Micca Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:35 PM Jon, Your apology not withstanding I had written this reply at the same time and I think it still makes valid points"
I think you have a nerve in having a go at Noreen for doing the responsible thing and closing the room and not just leaving it open, or worse, handing it (and your Name see 2 below) over to a total stranger to admin, especially since in a recent thread click here you said
1. The Mudcat Song Circle was started whenever an admin decided to open it and closed when there was no one left willing to continue admin duties or perhaps when the room emptied. And |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:45 PM Micca, If I had accused Noreen of failing to adhere to the rules, your point would have some validity. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Micca Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:58 PM Jon, maybe not explicitly but you are definatly accusing her of not following what you regard as YOUR "rules" I quote "You have taken on Admin duties, have 20 people in and then close the room on them, or a portion of them? That is awful. I am not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for those who had to go and lock themselves away from "outsiders", some of whom are likely to have been every bit as good as Mudcatters but that is not my problem. Mine is simple: I do not appreciate my room being opened to then slam the door in the face of some of those present. yet elsewhere, you say "admin decided to open it and closed when there was no one left willing to continue admin duties" NOWHERE does it say an Admin HAS to keep the room open if there is no one to carry on, nor should there be, yet you are attacking her, without apparently knowing the facts either, for closing the room because she wanted to go elsewher, Get REAL Jon, NO ONE would do admin if this was the case..... |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Inukshuk Date: 12 Feb 01 - 01:14 PM HEY! I HAVE A FEELING THAT I'M ON THE LIST OF THOSE WHO GET BOUNCED ON SIGHT. SURE CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY. ALL I WANT IS A CHANCE TO PLAY MY BANJO. WELL, PERHAPS I DID DIS A MAJOR BLUES ICON ONE NIGHT. BUT COME ON! HE GAVE LUCILE TO THE POPE! IT'S NOT AS IF THE VATICAN DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TREASURES. OH YES, AND THERE WAS THAT VERY UNFORTUNATE TYPO THAT I MADE WHEN ADDRESSING ONE OF YOUR ABLEST ADMINISTRATORS. I SURE AS HELL NEVER SAID ANYTHING NEAR AS MEAN OR HURTFUL AS SOME OF THE STUFF THAT'S BEEN SAID ON THIS THREAD. BE NICE TO EACH OTHER! |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: John Routledge Date: 12 Feb 01 - 01:21 PM Why should any admin functioning at 2am their time be expected to continue to supervise a room full of strangers whose time is 9pm the day before if none of them will take the room over. This prospect will hardly encourage more admin. Even assuming a world without mischief or malice it is unrealistic to expect compatability between say myself at 3am and a guy performing well beyond the confines of Mudcat material at 10pm their time with the approval of a tolerant admin. In these circumstances I thought that I had the right to go and open another room.Perhaps not. Geordie(hope we soon get performing)Broon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 01:33 PM Sorry Micca, where I was a bloody fool was reading: "...but then it got VERY busy -must have been 20 or so in, lots of non- catters, hard work to admin, so we moved over to the snug where there was a far more relaxing atmosphere..." and taking to to mean that Noreen was
1) Complaining about the number/ proportion of Non-catters. And under those circumsances, I would stand by my points which were.
1) I had aked that the room was not part of the fall out. At no point did I complain that the room had not been closed correctly. To have failed to have closed the room properly would have given rise to a further complaint from me. As for knowing the facts, my comments were made on the information supplied to me in the thread and given that I say: 1. "The maintainence of "Law and Order" in the room is the responsibility of the Admin" 2. " Any problems that fall outside the normal Paltalk Admin Guidelines will be reported to me so that the matter can be discussed and appropriate action taken." and that the Admins are aware of the tools available to deal with trouble, as far as I was concerned I was in possession of all the facts. If for some reason the bounce option was not been working which is the only reason I can see for not being able to maintain law and order, I clearly should have been informed. Jon
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 01:45 PM Bluegrasshole, I don't maintain a bounce on site list although there is at least 1 character who stalks women who will be bounced on sight by me and several other Admins - that is not you. I did bounce you last week for being abusive in the text chat to one of my co-admins and I will bounce anyone who is abusive to other member with a minimum of warning and I trust that my co-admins would do the same. Maybe this incident was a one off but repeated cases of abuse will lead to bouncing on site from me. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Morticia Date: 12 Feb 01 - 02:02 PM Well, Jon, I have been in the song circle room but given my 'druthers would prefer the Snug.If I am reading you correctly that means I'm no longer welcome in the Song circle, is that what you mean? |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 02:14 PM OK Morty, I will rephrase that: I would prefer people not to use the room than complain about it. Having said that, everyone (with the exception of persistent abusers) entering the room will be welcomed.Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Inukshuk Date: 12 Feb 01 - 03:29 PM YIPPEE! I'M NOT THE PARIAH THAT I THOUGHT I WAS. YAHOO! MERELY AN ASSHOLE. WHOOPEE! |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 12 Feb 01 - 03:43 PM Noreen: I came on and saw the song circle post. When I entered the room it was empty. As I left it "my friends" invited me to join another room, I accepted. How dare you and anyone else make comments on the timing of my posts or the reasons I do something. Perhaps you dont understand something. I dont care who or why or what you do. A. I have a life beyond Mudcat and get busy B. I do not live just for Folk music and chat C. I dont read all the threads on Mudcat
The reason I declined invites to the snug room were simple, I was invited to and was having fun in another room with friends. I thought the snug room was a private function after the song circle. (I saw the thread after I posted to the other and started received invites) If you guys cared so much why didnt you invite before? I dont care how many rooms you guys open, I just want to have fun and enjoy music. Clearly from what you posted here, that is rapidly becoming impossible for me. No matter what I say or do i'm accused of something. I cannot for the life of me believe how the ambience of this forum has deteriorated lately. I'm not so sure I'm welcome to either room now? |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: GUEST,TJ Kaczynski Date: 12 Feb 01 - 04:15 PM I keep telling you people, technology brings out the worst in human beings. Leave Dave alone. He has the weight of atlas on his able shoulders! Dave, don't feel bad...we all love you! Light not heat, people!! |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 12 Feb 01 - 04:32 PM As an observor, and I might add, one who has no agenda but is rather astute with observation: The "problem" is not really open room vs. closed room, us vs. them, our music vs. other crap. As I've said before, it's a matter of logistics, just getting personnel to participate. (without schedules and rules) I've enjoyed both rooms and intend to continue to do so. An analogy to raising children...it really doesn't matter what philosophy is followed as long as there is support and consistency. The kids will turn out OK if the environment is loving and consistent. The success of an open room depends on the admin. We've been blessed with talented people who can run an open room, invite and encourage new talent, keep the focus on music and music-related conversation, encourage performers, and fill in with singing or playing when there is dead time. I could not do this, so I depend on someone else to be around when it's convenient for me to listen in. I suspect a lot of the uncomfortable feelings concerning open rooms have a basis in our inabilities or lack of desire to take on this job. My favorite elementary teacher says, "I can't be Big Bird everyday!" I think many of us could be a perfect admin for a short period of time, but prefer not to invest our time in the long haul. On the other hand, the snug is a comfortable place that really doesn't require an admin. The advantage is that it can be open when there is nobody available to admin. I would really hate to see both open at the same time. And I also hate to see opinions from those who have not participated. Whenever we use the name Mudcat in a room title, we need to give a little more thought to what it is all about. |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: dwditty Date: 12 Feb 01 - 04:36 PM This may be off topic, but I just want to say that it is your listening, Mary, that makes it all worth while. Come to think of it, maybe this is exactly on topic. Get the point, people? dw |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Amergin Date: 12 Feb 01 - 04:38 PM I agree with Mary...and I would like to add something...what I hate to see is people who I respect and admire arguing about a chat program. |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Feb 01 - 05:01 PM Look, there is no open/ closed or other room issue here. This whole business centres around me missunderstanding what Noreen meant when she said "...but then it got VERY busy -must have been 20 or so in, lots of non- catters, hard work to admin, so we moved over to the snug where there was a far more relaxing atmosphere..." (and judging by Alison's post, I would guess I was not alone in at least some of that missunderstanding) and my over-reaction to it. Jon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: bigchuck Date: 12 Feb 01 - 05:02 PM Well, I'Ve been sitting here trying to keep my mouth shut, But I will just offer a little personal testimony here. I have used and enjoyed both rooms AND expect to continue doing so. While I like the open room "in principal", I have found nights when my time was limited, 2 or 3 people have been jumping on the mike fast enough so that I felt it unlikely that I would get much opportunity to sing, and/or enough of the music was not to my taste or liking, the room was full of strangers and I simply didn't feel comfortable with the atmosphere at the time, or all of the above....whereupon I have left after a short time. At such times, the snug room full of familiar 'catters feels welcoming and attractive. I really don't see these as mutually exclusive things. There are certainly enought people who like each alternative to keep two (or more) rooms going and active. Principle be damned, I simply feel like diffent things on different nights, AND I REALLY don't want or need to feel that I am choosing sides in some great struggle. Methinks we need to keep all this in perspective and lighten up a little. I will now go to my room and don my asbestos undies. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: UK Des Date: 13 Feb 01 - 05:36 PM I've not visited a Paltalk:Mudcat Song Circle yet. I'm a relatively new "mudcatter". I came across the reference and downloaded the programme, but having read the above string I'm feeling depressed. Is this what people really use the net for? |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: John Routledge Date: 13 Feb 01 - 05:49 PM DES When you actually get there it is generally great! Many people( myself included) have very high expectations and this I feel puts a little pressure on. February gloom does not help either!! I sang last week for the first time into a mic, never mind computer, and the catters were very very supportive. Have a go and enjoy yourself. I am sure that you will.Cheers Geordie Broon |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Greyeyes Date: 14 Feb 01 - 04:43 PM What Jon said. A misunderstanding. A reaction. A public apology. Such is life. Time to move on? |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Nynia Date: 14 Feb 01 - 06:49 PM Hi Des, UNINTENTIONALLY I have caused a lot of this problem by opening a closed room (No-one post a reply to that statement PLEASE). Des, please go to whatever room that is open at the time. You WILL enjoy yourself I am sure of that. Listen to Geordie Broon who incidentally is a superb addition to the already long list of amazing talent on Mudcat/Paltalk. If you wish to sing, fantastic, if you wish to listen/play, you will be made every bit as welcome. Greyeyes - just about a perfect summary, THANK YOU. Nynia. |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: banjobenny Date: 14 Feb 01 - 10:15 PM Geeze......i thought about trying to get back into this whole "Song Circle" thing. But i am afraid that this thread has left me with a doubt about wanting to join in again. Sorry people, but i don't want to join/jam with you any more. One person in particular is a controlling freaky dude. Bye |
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Subject: RE: PalTalk:Mudcat Song Circle open 11 Feb From: Noreen Date: 14 Feb 01 - 10:37 PM No, banjo and Des, please just read Greyeyes post above. All is sorted and the paltalk rooms are pleasant and friendly- as they have been all along. Live music is a far more effective form of communication than bits of text in itty bitty boxes. :0) Hope to see lots of new faces/voices joining in. Noreen |
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