 sj |
||
|
||
Eminem carrier of folk torch?
|
|
|
Subject: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:20 PM Those of you who listen to NPR may have heard the story yesterday afternoon about several groups protesting the Grammy Awards tonight because of Eminem's scheduled appearance. I am only vaguely familiar with his work but I understand many people are offended by it, like they were with Alice Cooper in the 70s and Ozzy Osbourne in the 80s and all the rap guys in the 90s blahblahblahblahblah. Apparently there's a song on his album wherein a man murders his wife. Of course the women's groups are all over this. A record company exec argued that this particular "song" fit into the centuries-old tradition of the Murder Ballad. A women's activist argued back that at the time these old murder ballads were written, a woman was her husband's property and the law would let him get away with anything. Mister and I were talking about this and he brought up the point that in a good many of the old songs, the murderer is either a)sorry for what he's done; b)taken to prison; or c) both. Sometimes the murderer even kills himself. The point being, anyhow, that the man doesn't necessarily get away with murder in these old tunes. I haven't heard the piece in question but I am roundly curious as to why it would arouse so much brewhaha, when no one made a peep about Lyle lovett's "The Lights of LA County," where a man shoots his old flame and her groom at the altar, or Garth Brooks' tune about the man driving his semi into the hotel, killing his cheating wife, or countless versions of "Knoxville Girl." What do y'all have to say?
|
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: GUEST,Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:28 PM Kim, Eminem is a pig. His songs spew hatred of women and homosexuals. He sings about killing his wife, raping his mother, and executing gays. This piece of crap doesn't even deserve the title of "music" let alone "folk". His wife, who's name is Kim as well, called 911 one night when he was beating her. He later used the call in a song on his album called "Kim" and rapping about wishing she'd kill herself. In a Rolling Stone article he once said "Sometime for fun I'd like to kick a pregnant woman in the stomach". Tonight he's scheduled to sing with Elton John, even though his songs are loaded with anti-gay sentiments. Frankly, I hope Elton slams the little twit's head in the piano. --Matt |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Amergin Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:33 PM All he is is a juvenile trying to make a big name for himself.... |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:37 PM So then, aside from his crappy music, is it his insufferable personality that's causing all this fuss? If Garth Brooks was a jerk would the women's groups get upset with him too? I won't argue Eminem is a pig. What I'm trying to figure out is why one murder song will draw criticism that others don't. On another note, I believe I read in the news awhile back that Eminem's wife dropped the charges and reconciled with him. (I hope Elton kicks his ass too!) |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Amergin Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:41 PM If you remember, Garth Brooks Thunder Rolls brought on lots of criticism too....but then most of the time people don't ever listen to the song they are protesting...the same thing goes with movies....How much do you want to bet that the vast majority of those who protested "Last Temptation of Christ" actually sat down and watched it? |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: GUEST,Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:44 PM Because in Eminem's case, he's probably speaking from personal experience about killing, where a more reputable artist would simply be singing a song. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: GUEST,Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:45 PM I suppose "Cop Killah" would be a nice murder ballad as well... |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Amergin Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:51 PM Matt, I don't think Eminem ever killed anyone. He is a craven coward. The fact that he beats on his wife, proves that. His cowardice is proven even more when he sang that song about wishing that she would kill herself. Like I said above is that he is just an immature juvenile trying to make a big name for himself through the easy path of notriety... |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: mousethief Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:02 PM I heard his mother sued him, though. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:13 PM Y'all realize, right, that I'm just playin devils advocate here, tryin to foster a semi-intellectual discussion. :) Thunder Rolls did get a lot of hype but I never heard One Single Peep about Mama's in the Graveyard, Papa's in the Pen. Matt and Amergin I think you are both right. Now - let me throw another fly in the ointment here. We can see people murdered in all manner of ways on TV or at the movies anytime of day. Why is it worse when it's a 4-minute soundbite? Eminem's up for Album of the Year, Gladiator's up for Picture of the Year. Y'all see Gladiator? I did. Good movie, lots of disgusting parts. Is the Motion Picture Academy glorifying violence by nominating this movie? Is NARAS doing the same by nominating Eminem? |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: mousethief Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:15 PM How many teenagers put Gladiator in their walkman and listen to it over and over and over and over? Pop music is indoctrination. We're scared when kids are being indoctrinated into rape and hatred and murder. That's all. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Mrrzy Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:19 PM I have to admit that I don't "get" it. I like a lot of music with words that might offend some, even myself, but I still like the music... in this case, though, what I hear isn't pretty, so even if it had nice words, I wouldn't like it. I have to agree with Kim's original wondering what it is with THIS particular offensive artist that has everyone so up in arms... I like murder ballads even though I don't like murder. I like church music even though I don't like organized religion. And so on. I guess to me nothing has to be a symbol, maybe? But it can be if I want it to be? |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Lady McMoo Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:21 PM No. He is just an idiot. mcmoo |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:22 PM Maybe not Alex, but they do see rape and hatred and murder over and over and over on television, including the news. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: mousethief Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:25 PM Songs are different Kim. If we didn't think that we wouldn't be here on this website. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Pseudolus Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:27 PM Murderers in the movies and on TV are generally seen as the "bad guys". So in fact I see it as a natural extension of that to portray Eminem as the "bad guy" since by his music he has put himself there. you bring up a good point about movies like Gladiator that sensationalize violence but they seem to be able to package it in a way that puts it in the third person. The person who wrote Gladiator didn't write in a part for him/herself. Society tends to accept those things (rightly or wrongly) a lot better than a singer/songwriter who's work and style seems to be based on anger and hatred. As much as I believe in his right to make his own "music" I must admit my 9 and 12 year old daughters are not permitted to own his CD. In fairness to myself, I won't be taking them to see Gladiator either!! :) Good topic, makes you think.... Frank |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: GUEST,UB Dan Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:37 PM The interesting thing is that Eminem made a name for himself by rapping about how if he says awful things people will buy his albums and talk about him. Most of the time when he says the most offensive things he precedes it or follows it up with a comment that is basically "Can you believe I just said that". I don't think people listen to him because they want to kill people any more than I believe people watch the TV show "COPS" becauyse they want to see justice. Its entertainment through shock and hyperbole... Many of his lyrics are also designed to remind his fans its just a song...don't believe everything he says. That's the whole point of one of his songs (Stan) where a fan writes in that he identifies with Eminem and eminem encourages him to look on the good things in life and seek help. The reason people are up in arms his records are selling, there are countless performers and celebrities who say and DO things much worse than him and songs with violence have always been around... what about the folk song where the wife feeds her husband marrow bones to make him blind so she can drown him in the river... Each time samebody condemns eminem, 100's of people buy his record....and that's what he's been saying in his songs all along |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:37 PM Okay, fair enough. Lemme throw this one out, then. Songs are different, but they're not different. What I mean by that is, while a lot of people write songs from some deep personal experience, some people write songs as fiction, just like novelists or screenwriters do. We seem to naturally assume that the person singing the song IS the person in the song, but that's not necessarily true, anymore than the author of Silence of the Lambs is himself Hannibal Lecter. Singers can be actors too. Garth Brooks isn't the man driving the semi into the hotel room and Lyle Lovett isn't the man with the 45 shooting up the church and Doc Watson ain't the man who killed little Sadie in the first degree. What is it that makes Eminem different? Because the kids like him? Kids like Garth too. Because he's already a jerk and this just gives us one more reason not to like him? I really truly am just curious. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: mousethief Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:48 PM I think any kid who has sung "I'm gonna kill my momma" thousands of times is far more likely to do it than a kid who hasn't. Maybe I'm wrong. So sue me. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Pseudolus Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:53 PM It's the assumption you talked about in your first paragraph that makes it different. Doesn't make it right but it does make it different. Music history is filled with songwriters who have strong feelings about someone or some group and they decide to write a song about it. How many love songs are true stories??? How many hate songs, disaster songs, or sad songs are true stories? How do you tell the difference? Some pretty intelligent people in this forum will probably tell you that they can't, at least not all the time. If that is true, what's to make me think that my kids will be able to? Therefore, I have to assume the worst and take the side of those who think that hate and anger are behind it all. Frank |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:59 PM No, I don't think you're wrong. I am just trying to understand why This Particular Performer is getting so much attention when there are Others Like Him and Other Ways that People Can Be Offended and Other Ways that Kids Are Exposed to Nasty Stuff. Music is not the only evil. But why do the kids like him anyway? I don't get it. Is it because their parents say no you can't have this CD in my house? It ain't because it's got a good beat and you can dance to it. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: John Routledge Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:02 PM The publicity seems to be doing little damage.GB John |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: ruthie-a Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:03 PM Right, now I'm going to speak as a child. A 13-year-old who hates being regarded as a child, admittedly, but I suppose I am one nevertheless. I must make myself entirely clear that I loathe Eminem. I don't believe him to be a musician, never mind one worthy of credit. I think he is one of the most abhorrent, mindless idiots that is currently abroad in the charts and I'm sick to the back teeth of my friends trying to drum his 'genius' into my skull. I hate the talentless garbage that he has taken to producing, but I think there are a few misunderstandings here as to the 'child'. It all depends upon what you think a child is. I'm 13 - most adults would still regard that as childhood. I have learnt nothing from Eminem and he has left no impression on me. Most people that I know from the age of 9 upwards are familiar with the concepts of rape, homophobia and murder, and few children under the age of 9 listen to Eminem. They learn that from the schoolyard and from the programmes they watch on television. They may become more familiar with these issues through Eminem, but they are generally aware that these actions and feelings are wrong. In fact, the adverse reaction to Eminem from the general public enforces how wrong these things are. There are always exceptions to the rule - but we can't blame Eminem for that. It's music. Eminem also has a powerful turn of phrase. I don't like the things he's saying, but I can appreciate how he is good in his field. A field that's against my beliefs, but it's true. There. You may disagree, but that's what I think. Most of my friends think that Eminem's one of the Gods' gifts to the pop charts, but I don't. I'm a folk addict, so what I feel about the Eminem-type genre is probably irrelevant. He's still racist, homophobic and sexist, all of which are bad traits in anybody. But that doesn't make him a bad rapper. Ruthie |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:08 PM All good insights. Thanks. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Pseudolus Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:11 PM This particular performer is constantly using the hate-card which is what seperates him from many others. Now, don't get me wrong here but I think a lot of kids (especially the ones buying the CD's) will tell you that his music DOES have a beat and they CAN dance to it. I wouldn't go racing to the dancefloor when it came on but I'm officially middle-aged (so says my wife) and I wouldn't enjoy it.
Frank
|
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: mousethief Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:11 PM Here's another point which was hinted at above: when people make a lot of noise about a singer, a movie, or whatever, all it does is serve to give it more publicity. Like when the Catholic Church makes a stink about some movie (e.g. Last Temptation of Christ). Far more people go out and see the movie than would otherwise have done. If people would ignore Eminem eventually he will go away. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: GUEST,Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:11 PM Actually, it does. He's a whiny-voiced white boy who thinks he's something. He's not. He's nothing. At least Marilyn Manson has some degree of decency still left. Eminem doesn't. BTW KID A by Radiohead is gonna win Album of The Year! It deserves to. Radiohead...REAL musicians who concentrate more on making music and always staying creative, not slapping sludge onto the same old tired rap beats like Eminem does. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Mrs.Duck Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:29 PM I am against any form of racism or anti gay propaganda and do not feel that anyone has the right to free speech that can cause others to feel threatened or put down. In fact I have more concerns over this side of Eminem's 'music' than the killing aspect as I agree there have been many,many songs written about murder but to encourage children to denegrate blacks and gays is more subversive. I do agree however that giving such publicity to the records will have only served to increase sales! |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Robo Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:36 PM This stuff is not Down in the Willow Garden, folks, which like other songs like it carried a sense of the wrongness of the killing and a regret for doing so. This tripe will turn the thinking person's stomach. And the question isn't his right to compose or perform any ol' song he likes. The real question is what value does the record company find in publishing this blather? The answer, sales show, is obvious. And my real worry isn't the next album he puts out but the coming deluge of imitating "artists" and other companies looking to cash in. That and the world view messages like his can instill in impressionable 8-12 year olds. I heard a mother say on TV that she sees it all as a put on, that it's funny to her kids. That, I think, is more the joke. Rob-o |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Rick Fielding Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:42 PM Wow! It's simply "show biz", modern variety. Nothing more nothing less. Eminem takes on a personna guaranteed to get him noticed. The notoriety results in HUGE sales. Huge sales equal COLOSSAL amounts of money. Constant public debate means even more money. Would any MAJOR record companies put taste ahead of profits? Of course not. Eminem's personna works. It may be sad, but it's sure as hell the reality. Support Folk-Legacy records. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: GUEST,UB Dan Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:45 PM Quick point...to be fair Eminem does not have any racist lyrics...and the lyrics construed as homophobic are mostly just him using derogatory slang as an insult to certain individuals he dislikes...I don't believe he ever says let's beat up people who are homosexual, he says I hate the guy from this other rap group he stupid and probably gay and I want to beat him up....I think this is intolorant and derogatory, but it is not quite as vicious as some seem to suggest... I'm not saying he is a great man...I don't want to hang out with him...but he's not the most dangerous thing in music today... |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Gary T Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:45 PM I doubt I've ever heard Eminem. I have heard about him. An article in the local paper yesterday shed a little light. Apparently many of those who are familiar with his chosen genre think he shows an extraordinary level of talent. I got the impression that they don't take the apparent messages in the songs too seriously. There were some hints that's it more posing than genuine expression of Eminem's viewpoints. I take a reserved view of artists who are vehemently denounced. This bashing always reminds me of the uproar over Rock and Roll in the 50's, how it was leading our youth down a path of sin and immorality. Every generation seems to think that the controversial artists of its time were OK, but these new ones have crossed the line and it's just AWFUL--there was NOTHING like this in our day, and it will SURELY destroy the minds and morals of our kids. I'm seeing the same pattern in the criticism. It's hard for me to imagine that Elton John would perform with Eminem if he thought that Eminem truly believed what his lyrics seem to say. Maybe he knows something that the general public is not aware of. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Robo Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:58 PM Rick . . . That's a pretty easy way out, I think. It says to me that since we can rationalize any reality then all realities are/ought to be acceptable to everyone. I don't buy that. Rob-o |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:34 PM This is a great discussion. I do believe, however, that Eminem will eventually melt like Vanilla Ice. Remember him? |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:38 PM You mean the white boy with the gumby who stole chords from Queen? |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: katlaughing Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:38 PM Jim Morrison sang, "Father, I want to kill you." This is very interesting, good points all round. I went ot a lyrics site and read a few of his. The most offensive thing I saw was "fuck" and "nigga." It was a quick scan, though. I'll have to go to some of the gay sites I know of and see what they have to say. kat |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: LR Mole Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:44 PM Well, no; I don't either. In fact it's hard to imagine an "evil" folkie, even crafting such a performance/identity without his or her skill or demeanor commenting on things.So, no, M&M ain't carrying any folk torch. On the other hand, he is the flavor-of-the-month in the popular (money-grabbing) arena, which always has had an element of the sideshow geek in it: real points exaggerated to ultra-simplicity have always sold, because they are easier than thinking. Certainly people who have had miserable childhoods, see the world in terms of certainties, and see themselves as people with a license to hurt and kill to redress these matters are attractive to the immature. But skillfully applied mud is still mud. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Robo Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:45 PM Good point indeed, Kat. Still, how many 8-12 year olds had copies of the Doors album? Don't think it was Grammy material, either. Rob-o |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Hawker Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:47 PM Who? And that is the way it is going to stay....... Lucy! |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: LR Mole Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:49 PM If I repeat something enough, does it turn into rap? Am I getting paid?
oops, double-posting deleted |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:08 PM Nice try, Mole, but no seegar! I was a teenager back in the 80s when Tipper Gore started the PMRC. None of us kids could really figure out why. I guess there were some things on people's albums that were offensive but the stuff on the radio back then seemed pretty inocuous, at least it did to us anyway. My friends and I were listening to the Police and Duran Duran and Culture Club. Ozzy took a lot of heat for some of his hijinks but I was never into that. I guess what I'm saying is, these same sorts of arguments have been made for years about different people (which someone already pointed out) and I really have to say, pop music never convinced me to do anything except sing along. And Joe Camel never convinced me to smoke either. Now - that being said - I realize there are people of a very sensitive nature who could be set over the edge by the least thing, a song on the radio included. But I think they are in the minority. No, he is not carrying a folk torch, but I found it interesting that the record company exec on the news story compared the song "Kim" to an old-time murder ballad. I think she had grounds there from the standpoint that songs about death, murder and violence have been around ever since people have been singing. But like Rob-o said, the perpetrators in a lot of those old songs either have remorse or get punished. And the Doors were popular in their day, Grammy or no Grammy, and Riders on the Storm was a hit song. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Mooh Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:09 PM Break it down for a moment. If the message was one of peace and happiness, the music would still suck. If the music was the most appealing and original, the message would still suck. If the rhythm was original, it would have worthy immitators, but it's not and it doesn't. If his personna was universally attractive, it still wouldn't carry the music. If the music was universally attractive, it doesn't mean he is. His message, as shallow as it is, spews intolerance, disrespect, hate, violence, dysfunction, phobias galour, and is an indicator of just how twisted one can be and get attention for it. This asshole should be a footnote in a phychiatric text, not a pop icon. Every sale he is given only rewards him for his vitriol, and validates his opinions and his attention grabbing self-absorption. So far I've been spared his crap in my home, I hope because his target audience here can see through his transparent shit. I personally don't really care about his style, though I think it's inane, but his message shows an immaturity which doesn't deserve reward. It is wasteful of time, money, and resources to reproduce, and I hope he realizes some shame about his behavior before he influences too many more impressionable people. Peace, while it's still possible, Mooh.
|
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:20 PM Wow,Mooh... good job! :) |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:27 PM I don't get the Ozzy thing. I've been listening to him a LOT in the last few weeks...I don't see anything that would get people upset. I just don't get it. I like Ozzy's stuff a lot. Compared to Eminem, Ozzy is a saint. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:38 PM With Ozzy - and with Alice Cooper - I think it was more his stage antics than anything else. Some people were upset by his Mr. Crowley song, claiming it promoted satanism. Others were upset with Suicide Solution, claiming it promoted suicide although I am given to understand it was actually an anti-suicide song. Some entertainers just like to shock people. They live on the attention. I saw Marilyn Manson on Letterman one night - he didn't perform, just came out for an interview. Strange outfit aside, I was surprised at how very vanilla he was. Bland. I thought, so THIS is what all the fuss is about? Hmph. I did see him on the American Music Awards or whatever that show was and I wasn't too impressed. Not my kind of music.
|
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Matt_R Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:51 PM Yeah Mr.Crowley & Suicide Solution! Great songs. Actually, Alistair Crowley was into mysticism of all sorts, not Satanism. And yes Suicide Solution is anti-suicide, just like "Don't Try Suicide" by Queen. Momma, I'm coming home... |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Mooh Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:55 PM Why thank you, Kim. The folk torch, you ask? Not bloody likely. Seems to me that perspective and context are required to continue a tradition with respect. I just don't see it in this case. As for comparing this sort of music to that of other generations which pushed the boundaries of acceptability, I offer this: We live in the most untethered social times known since the dawn of the round Earth. Within this context we have not seen a consistent testing of the norms of society, we have seen an increasing abuse of those norms. I happen to think that mutual respect should be a condition of societal tests. Compare for example the outrageous lyrics of the '50's to that of today. Within the context of the era, today's are much more outrageous. Just because time has passed or we are accustomed to being tested in this regard does not mean that the limits of acceptability should be eroded until there are none. One does not have to be religious to expect or accept the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule as guides. They are very practical for the continuance of dignity and self-preservation. There are other simple guides too, from many societies, but espousing hate has never been a successful one for long. As for our subject being regarded as worthy expression or art, I'll bet that time will prove otherwise. In the meantime, because of the ability and influence of mass reproduction, media, style, image, advertising, and marketing, there will be considerable confusion about whether it constitutes fine art or refined crap, particularly among those who can afford to buy it but can't yet afford to understand it. I'm outa breath. Mooh. |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: Kim C Date: 21 Feb 01 - 05:10 PM Dern, friend, I don't think can follow that! :) |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: John Hardly Date: 21 Feb 01 - 05:43 PM ...next time I'm in charge of sorting ...I'm keeping the W&Ws... |
|
Subject: RE: Eminem carrier of folk torch? From: katlaughing Date: 21 Feb 01 - 06:04 PM Wow, Mooh is on a roll and a damn fine one at that! John H...what flavours do W&W's come in? Do they melt in your mouth but not in your hand? Rob-O...true back then 8-12 yr olds usually didn't have the access they do now. My son *heard* the Doors in utero every day I was preggers with him and he turned out okay.**BG** (My ex lived to hear the Doors!) Anyway, from www.gaywired.com, one of my fav gay sites (I've put in BOLD what I consider the most insightful point of this op/ed piece, in the last paragraph:)
Eminem and Feminem to Perform Tonight
While watching TV yesterday, I saw a promo for the Grammy Broadcast tonight. "Tune in Wednesday for the controversial Eminem duet with Elton John!" the commercial wailed". Obviously, controversy is expected to pay off with big ratings and big bucks, this time materializing in NBC and the two music superstar's bank accounts. A couple of years ago, Elton John spoke movingly about the need to eliminate hatred and discrimination against gays and lesbians at a Mathew Sheppard Memorial. ``When I fly over America on my broomstick, as I often do a lot, I get to feeling what a big country this is - it's big enough for everyone, and despite all the progress that has been made in rights and tolerance, we are still living in a world of hate.'' John will take the stage at the Grammy Awards ceremony tonight with Eminem - the rapper whose album is riddled with violent references to ``fags", among others. And is it just me, but I suddenly hear people - who never like this kind of rap music- now jumping on the hip hop bandwagon and calling him a genius. Everyone's entitled to his or her own taste, but Eminem ain't Bob Dillon, in my book. Fun, yeah. Groovy, yeah but GENIUS? I mean, Milli Vinilli won a Grammy, ok? Now, I am a big free speech advocate. That comes first, and it's not right to censor, of course. But at the same time, my right to free speech is the ability to disagree with what I perceive to be misguided or just untrue. That's all. The scariest thing about Eminem is not Eminem, but that so many people relate to his lyrics – that says something major. But in America, he can express himself and so can I. Melissa Etheridge, the lesbian singer and outspoken proponent of gay rights, declined to criticize him, describing Eminem as talented while acknowledging that his words were hurtful, which is democracy in action. So, why isn't Elton acknowledging Eminem's talent while recognizing his words are hurtful? It was just last year Elton stormed off the stage while performing with Tina Turner because she was 'bossy'. I guess she's not enough of a 'genius' to overlook bossiness! Eminem's lyrics, which call gays ``sick'' and joke about stabbing them. In the song ``Criminal,'' he raps: ``My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge/ That'll stab you in the head/ whether you're a fag or lez/ Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest/ Pants or dress - hate fags? The answer's `yes'.'' If Tina Turner suddenly started belting out songs describing how much she hates lezzies and fags, I don't think Elton would have overlooked that as a brilliant artistic turn, because – she's not selling records and Eminem is. ``The Marshall Mathers LP'' has been nominated for the Grammys' highest honor, album of the year. He is also nominated in three rap categories. Eminem's spokesman, Dennis Dennehy, said the music industry has not flogged Eminem because ``Artists are tuned to artistic expression, and I don't think any of them would favor stifling that.'' But one of the few gay artists who has voiced disdain for Eminem is Boy George, whose gender-bending ways with the band Culture Club pushed the boundaries in the 1980s. ``Nobody wants to sort of battle against success. It's one of those things; if you slag him off, you on the one hand will appear bitter, and on the other hand you will appear uncool,'' George said. ``If Pol Pot had a successful record, people would probably be running around him as well.'' He accused John of performing with Eminem simply to bolster his own 'street cred' and album sales. ``Eminem is a really cool young artist, and Elton I guess feels it's good for his career. I don't think it's anything deeper than that,'' he said. ``The thing is, Elton John is fine, Elton John is a multimillionaire - Elton John lives in a bubble,'' George said. ``But what about all the little kids who live in the projects, the effeminate boys or lesbians and gays out there in the real world, getting beat up? What about people like Matthew Shepard? They don't live in that bubble.'' John has said he does not believe Eminem is hateful. ``I'm a big fan of his music, and I said I would be delighted to'' perform with him, the British superstar told the Los Angeles Times. ``If I thought for one minute that he was (hateful), I wouldn't do it.'' Gay activists plan to picket the awards ceremony. George supports the rally, but wonders whether attention paid to Eminem isn't counterproductive. ``I think sort of blacklisting him is just as bad,'' he said. ``The more people moan about him being there, the more people moan about what he's saying, the more records he seems to sell.'' Ultimately, Eminem's music and his right to free speech are two separate issues. But free speech doesn't work if only one side is 'speeching'. The great thing about this controversy is that is has begun a public debate about censorship and free speech at a time when a conservative President who wants to abolish the NEA takes office. But most artists don't construct their art on hating people. The role of art is to enlighten, isn't it? I don't hear any gay artists going around talking about killing heteros and raping their babies. I'm just hoping that Elton and Eminem do a rousing version of John's "Can you feel the love tonight". Now, that would be news. © 2000 GayWired; All Rights Reserved. |
| Share Thread: |