Opinionated Civil War Music Article

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 03:32 AM

The Howe and Ryan books postdate the Civil War, surely?

There were very few British dance tune books in print at the time, either. There was Surenne's in Scotland, but that was deluxe and expensive. Kerr in the late 1870s was the first big cheap one.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 10:20 AM

Hi, Jack. "Ryan's Mammoth" first appeared in 1883.

Howe's "1,000 Jigs and Reels" antedates the war, however, having appeared in 1860.

It would be interesting to analyze its sources. But since Howe was a publisher, not a tune collector, any "traditional fiddle tunes" not in earlier publications could only have come from Howe's acquaintances in the Boston area, even if some may have originated farther afield.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 09:30 AM

Actually Howe's books, and others, are even earlier (The Musician's Companion 1840)and were a reaction to the expense of individual sheet music. In fact, these collections go back into the 17th C and were used by dance masters, such as Playford, to teach various dances of the time as well as provide tunes for the many collections of lyrics compiled for public use (Caledonian Pocket Companion etc etc). There are way too many to mention here; various archives are full of them. They were learned and passed through the oral/aural tradition as well.

Regarding the tunes mentioned, please remember that people would often change or replace the names of tunes for various reasons- one would have to do an extensive analysis of the collections to say that these tunes did not exist previously.
See Planxty George Barbazon / The Isle of Skye/ Twa Bonny Maidens- all the same tune, some with additional parts.

best- J

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 01:01 PM

The Caledonian Pocket Companion was intended for deep pockets in every sense. The budget option in the later 18th century was Aird's books, which got everywhere and were very widely copied (witness the Village Music Project's manuscripts from early 19th century England).

But nothing like that was published in Britain in the early 1800s. Middleton and Cameron were first to produce cheap sizable collections, but nobody until Kerr published anything affordable with Aird's scope.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM

Julia and Jack,

While Howe's collection and others may be chock-full of Appalachian fiddle tunes under different (presumably Hiberno-British) titles, nobody has shown this to be the case. From my own limited experience, I'm extremely skeptical of this idea. I'm somewhat more familiar with O'Neill, and over the years have noticed almost nothing identifiably American in his books, except, if I recall correctly, a few international hits of the late 19th century like "Turkeys [sic] in the Straw," "Arkansas Traveler," and "When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again."

But I'd defer to someone who's actually examined the question.

The burden is on the many writers in the past who asserted, on scanty evidence and a lot of assumptions, that American fiddle tunes were imported from Britain in great numbers. In the absence of actual analysis, the reasoning seems to be that it could be true, so it's probably true and therefore really is true.

Levels of folk-music scholarship have varied wildly.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 15 Aug 18 - 11:29 PM

There are loads of home grown songsters,chapbooks and tune collections published in North America in the early 19th century which include "new' tunes which are basically derivative. I think we can safely say that the tunes you speak of are descendants of the preceding tunes.

And I have examined the question.
best- J

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 10:21 AM

Julia, by "the tunes you speak of," do you mean the three I named or "Appalachian fiddle tunes" generally?

It would be nice to see specific examples of American/Appalchian fiddle tunes that are the same as or clearly derive from Transatlantic sources.

Obviously the American tunes didn't just appear from nowhere. The reel and hornpipe forms were clearly brought from Britain along with the modes. Undoubtedly the Colonists brought their music with them, but that was over two hundred years ago. Those early tunes seem to have fallen out of tradition long ago.

Consider the Irish immigration of the 1840s. Many tunes of that era survive in Irish-American tradition (with occasional booster shots from print), but except for "The Red-Haired Boy," which is known to old-time American fiddlers, I can't think of any that spread beyond Irish-American communities.

My position at the moment is that while there was strong stylistic influence from Britain and Ireland, the vast majority of American fiddle tunes were home-grown - with some new (or newly widespread) stylistic developments as well.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 12:26 AM

What do you mean by "American Fiddle tunes"?

Folk music is a fluid tradition with a myriad of regional variants derived from previous sources. The Appalachian tunes and songs have direct ancestors in the tunes brought by the Scots Irish that settled those hills. This has been shown by the many collectors who have painstakingly catalogued thousands of tunes and correlated them with source material. We can call them "American" because they are here now, but to deny their lineage is uneducated. This information available from a number links available through this site and others.
Have fun doing your research!

As far as "spreading beyond Irish American communities", these old tunes are played worldwide by a broad spectrum of ethnicities. They are particularly popular in the Balkans just now and I have German friends that play them regularly.

By the way, are you a fiddle player? (just askin')

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Brian Peters
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 06:45 PM

The Appalachian tunes and songs have direct ancestors in the tunes brought by the Scots Irish that settled those hills. This has been shown by the many collectors who have painstakingly catalogued thousands of tunes and correlated them with source material.

Actually, a lot of the songs were English in origin. The Ulster Scots settlement was important but paralleled by a large migration from England.

As to the fiddle tunes, this isn't really my area - hence my throwing the question out there - but there are obvious examples such as 'Fishers' and 'Ricketts Hornpipe' (both of which are claimed by some for England) and 'Old Molly Hare' which appears to be derived from 'The Fairy Dance'.

I believe Aird was one of the sources I heard claimed for the music copied into Civil War tunebooks.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 08:54 PM

Brian, good examples.

But what percentage of the tunes in, for example, Ford's "Traditional Music in America" 1940) are actually British or Irish? Certainly not "most"?

Here's a list of tunes played at the Old Fiddlers' Contest in Dallas, as reported by the Dallas Morning News, April 14, 1901:

‘Tom and Jerry,’
‘Village Quickstep,’
‘Granny Will Your Dogs [sic] Bite?,'
‘Natchez Under the Hill,'‘
"First Four Forward and Back,’*
’Brilliancy,'
‘The Gray Eagle,'
‘Jennie on the Railroad,’
‘Miss Sallie Gooden [sic],’
‘The Girl I Left Behind Me,'
'Old Red,' *
'Clay’s Favorite,’*
‘Durang’s Hornpipe,’
‘Miss McLeod’s Reel,' ‘
'Scott No. 2,’*
‘Drunken Hiccoughs,’
‘Arkansaw Traveler,’
‘Wagoner,’
'Slapjack and Lassengers.’*

Additional titles from the 1900 Dallas contest:

'Cotton-Eyed Joe'
'Money Musk'
'Forked Deer'
'Dixie'
'Culpepper'*
'Gilderoy'
'Possum Up a Gum Stump'*
'Black-Eyed Susan'
'The Devil's Dream'

Other sources from the 1890's and early 1900's mention

'Mississippi Sawyer'
'Old Joe Clark'
'Pretty Little Liza Jane'
'The Eighth of January'
"I'm Gwine Down to Town'
'See Catfish Going Up Stream'*
'Cindy'
'Bonaparte's Retreat'
'Sugar in the Gourd'
'Brown Jug'
'Downfall of Jerico'*
'The Ship that Never Returned'
'Listen to the Mockingbird'
'Haste to the Wedding'
'A Hot Time on the Old Town Tonight'
'Irish Washerwoman'
'I Love Somebody'
'Annie Laurie'
'Old Zip Coon'
'Lannigan's Ball'
'Leather Breeches'
'Hell on the Wabash'
'Hell Broke Loose in Georgia'
'Old Rackensack'*
'Rack Back, Davy'*
'One-Eyed Riley'
'Fisher's Hornpipe'
'Nine Mile Island'*
'Bonnie Kate'
'Soap Suds over the Fence'*

Not a complete list, of course; just those I've noted over the years as I've encountered them.

Of 58 titles, I recognize about 46. Of these, 14 are clearly from the UK.

For convenience, I've starred the 12 unfamiliar titles. Most sound characteristically American.

Anyway, from a presumably random sample, 14 of 46 tunes appear to be of British Isles origin. That's a little less than 1/3.

More than I expected, but far from a majority. If the unfamiliar American-sounding titles do belong to American tunes, the proportion falls to roughly 1/4.

Julia, I'm not a fiddler. Just a skeptical pedant who doesn't like taking things for granted.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Aug 18 - 10:01 PM

I've found a few more titles in my notes. All of these were mentioned in print before 1900:

The Dying Californian
Comin' Through the Rye
Turkey in the Straw
Gal on a Log
The Old Fat Gal
Snowbird on the Ash Bank
Old Dan Tucker
Clack Satin [sic]

"Comin' through the Rye" is Scottish. Most or all the rest appear to be American-made.

Subject: RE: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:09 PM

People interested in the lineage of tunes will find the "Fiddler's Companion website interesting

http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FCfiles.html