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Second Chances. Do you give them?
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Subject: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: GUEST,marty D Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:23 PM I just had a totally surprise visit from someone I was very close to for many years. We had a major falling out a few years ago (doesn't matter what it was, but it was serious) and have only seen each other the odd time on the street or at a concert. This person asked for a second chance regarding our relationship, and I had to keep myself from looking misty-eyed in front of them. All I could think was that this was not the same person who acted so cruelly to me back then. Sure they look pretty much the same, but whatever they were going through then has been worked out I guess, and I certainly feel I want to give them that second chance. Holding grudges just seems so futile, but I know it's the fuel that keeps some people going. Any mudcatters have any thoughts? (and then I'll go back to music and 'G' threads) Martin |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Morticia Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:34 PM Life's too short is my immiediate thought, and people change....usually not much but often enough.Do it, or you'll always wonder if you should have and that's worse, in my opinion, than knowing you made a mistake. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Wesley S Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:35 PM Holding grudges is futile but I see red flags here. Approach with caution. Make SURE they've worked through whatever it was in the past - don't guess. Or else you'll be worse off than you were in the past. Make sure you have very honest conversations about the past, present and future of the relationship. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: gnu Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:36 PM Martin.... A few years ago ????!!!! and only now they can see their error ????!!!! That is not true remorse. If they need help dealing with their problem, they can get it somewhere else. BTW, if this is a male-female ( or whatever, you know what I mean ) thing, run, run fast and run hard and don't look back. Love can be found, love can be nurtured, love can be a lot of things, but love cannot exist without trust and trust can never be regained after it is broken. Once bitten, bite back. gnu |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Amos Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:36 PM Second chances, sure. Anyone gets into a weird corner once or twice in a lifetime and says or does things they would never do ordinarily. Third chances, only rarely, and never if money is involved! A |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Mountain Dog Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:37 PM Having been the grateful recipient of many a second chance under various circumstances, I do believe in giving them, too. More often than not, when given sincerely, it's a gift that redounds to everyone's benefit. (You're right, too, about the futility of holding grudges. In fact, if I am honest with myself, I can usually judge the necessity and importance of my offering a second chance to someone based on the degree of self-righteous indignation I find myself harboring about the wrong I perceive having been done me.) |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:38 PM Second to Amos' post. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: late 'n short 2 Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:40 PM Sometimes looking at it from the other side helps, i.e.: Have you ever been given a second chance? Did you ever wish you had one and didn't get it? |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Wesley S Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:44 PM One other thought - It wouldn't suprise me that if you look back that you had already given a second chance or two to this person before the breakup ever happened. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Morticia Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:45 PM BTW Martin, is a 'G thread' like a G string but skinnier? |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: hesperis Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:45 PM That really depends. I've given a second chance to someone who used to be a friend and really betrayed that, but our relationship is on quite different terms now, too. We are not trying to be as close as we were, but we are still friends. But the problem happened because she let another "friend" poison her opinion of me. That "friend" has not even asked for a second chance, and I am better off without her as a "friend". |
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Subject: Second Chances From: Clinton Hammond Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:53 PM It can take say, 5 or 10 years to develop a good friendship and that can be over in a flash... It's been my experience that to try to put it back together will probably take another 5 to 10 years... Fool me once, shame on you But ya can't win if ya don't play eh! |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Mooh Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:59 PM I say turn the other cheek. That doesn't mean you can't be cautious, but there's less baggage with forgiveness than with grudges. Give it a second chance, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Peace. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: gnu Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:07 PM Whoa... Yes, of course, second chances are a given, but this was three years ago. That's 1095.75 chances, no ? gnu |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Kim C Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:13 PM well, it depends. Sometimes they're worth it, sometimes they're not. Only you can decide. Some people do take a long time to come around but that doesn't mean they're not sincere. Give it a try. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Pseudolus Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:28 PM If the relationship was of the romantic sort, then I would tread lightly but I would still consider the prospect of a second chance if it was what I WANTED. If it's something I NEEDED, then I would actually avoid it until I could feel more comfortable with myself. If on the other hand this was a romance-free relationship but a close friendship then I say full steam ahead (ok, maybe a little caution) but if things don't work out, then you're no worse off then you are now! I agree with Clinton, "ya can't win if ya don't play!" Frank |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: GUEST,Midchuck upstairs Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:34 PM Parentheticly, the big news on the flatpick list is that Norman and Nancy Blake have remarried. A few months ago, I guess, but the word just got out. Norman was quoted as saying "The divorce didn't work out." Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: GUEST,Sam Pirt Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:37 PM YES, Always, who knows you may need on one day Cheers, Sam |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Bernard Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:44 PM I always do, and the third, fourth, fifth... It's me that doesn't seem to get the second (and even more often the first) chance... I'm not bitter... H U M P H !! |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Jim Krause Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:51 PM Martin, I have experienced the falling out part of your story, but have been waiting all my life for the other part. It ain't gonna happen in this life, it looks like. But would I give her a second chance? Well, I can't. Not really. I married some one else. But I have to admit, it would be nice to get a letter telling me what really happened from her point of view. So, I made one up for myself and wrote it in a song. Here is the lyric: 1. Dear Dave, I thought I'd write 2. I guess you heard the news Bridge:I'm sorry for refugees 3. I folded up the page Bridge:I'm sorry for refugees Your Somebody wants a second chance? Lucky you. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: gnu Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:58 PM Bernard... killing their impudence with kindness. I like it. But, you have to be a real special person to take stuff like that ad infinitum. You may help to make a real human being out of someone, and take great personal satisfaction away with you in more ways than one, but there may also be a toll on you if you're not that special person. I tried for thirteen years to put up with consistent crap in a relationship with my best friend and, in the end, it took a heavy toll. I will not even speak to that person anymore unless it's an emergency - life or death type. Small stuff, ok, but if you're unsure about how the big stuff will affect you, run. gnu
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: BEK Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:58 PM Forgive--for yourself. It cleanses your soul. Don't forget. If you want a relationship go into it with your eyes open to the potential. Set your boundaries. Test that person's resolve to be the kind of friend that you need. You have the right for your own self protection. And, don't let yourself be hurt again. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Noreen Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:11 PM Yes. Bearing grudges tends to poison the mind of the bearer, and it's hard work. But I'd be wary the second time... Noreen |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: GUEST,Kendall Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:12 PM I married the same woman twice.That should tell you something. You gotta get out on the limb, that's where the fruit is. Seriously, ask yourself "What is MY part in this?" I'm often baffled by what other people do, but, I have to face the fact that, whatever it was, I had a hand in it. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: gnu Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:25 PM I never had a hand in it. That's why I divorced. gnu |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Deni Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:47 PM I think, regarding marriages, that what seems like a second chance is often a 300th chance, sothis doesn't apply to relationships that are that close. BUT I have always regretted not taking the chance to mend a friendship when I was offered the chance. So on hindsight, I'd grab it with both hands if the chance came again. Like you say. This person is definitely not the same person. It is a person who has learned something about realtionships. Best of British Luck D |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Jim Krause Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM On the other hand, one can be blind-sided. I'm pretty certain I was. I thought I went into the relationship with eyes wide open, and knowing full well what it was I wanted and expected. After reading a lot, and asking questions of a few pschologists and other mental health types, I've come to the conclusion that I fell in love with a manic/depressive, and didn't have enough experience at the time to be able to identify the condition. I agree with much of the advice and opinion given here: forgivness is free, trust is earned. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Kim C Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:52 PM well, I didn't realize that Norman and Nancy were ever NOT married....... Kendall's right --- the fruit is out on the limb and sometimes you gotta take that chance. And if it doesn't work out, okay - but at least you know you tried and you won't be kicking yourself later with "what if." |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Wavestar Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:02 PM Sometimes it takes three years. I've got a few people in my past I wouldn't mind trying again with, and it's been that long or longer. Maybe it will happen and maybe it won't. Be on yur guard, you know how they play if they are going to hurt you. But making the assumption that's what they want makes for a very sad world. -J |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Hawker Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:02 PM fORGIVE BUT TAKE TIME TO FORGET LUCY |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: mousethief Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:34 PM Is this a romantic relationship, or just a friendship? I'd say in romance, unless you've got whatever it is that Kendall has, second chances are just asking for trouble. But if we're talking friendship here, I have to disagree with gnu. It may have taken the friend 3 years of counselling and such to both get over whatever was wrong that made them hurt you in the first place, then get the nerve up to even approach you to ask for forgiveness. Oh yes, there's the other thing. Have they actually APOLOGIZED for hurting you? Or merely asked for a second chance? If just the latter, I'd say no. If they can't admit they have done you wrong and ask for forgiveness, they're not in a place (IMHO) where they can be trusted again. But if they have asked for forgiveness, and really want to try again, then I'd go with the approach BEK gave: If you want a relationship go into it with your eyes open to the potential. Set your boundaries. Test that person's resolve to be the kind of friend that you need. You have the right for your own self protection. Go much more slowly than you would with someone you're meeting new. Any close relationship involves letting down our defences, little by little, over a period of time, as the person "earns" it by treating us well after the last defence-slackening. I'm not saying this well, but I hope you get the drift. With someone who has betrayed you in the past, I would move much more slowly in the letting-down-the-defences department, and always be ready to slam them back in place again if it seems necessary. Contrary to BEK, you may get hurt. Being a friend at all involves the risk of being hurt; there is no other way to be a friend. But it would be a long time before I trusted a second-chancer with anything that would really hurt me. Slow and cautious. And if they blow it again, for me it would be over, endsville, done-for, finis, das Ziel, khattam-shud. JMHO. Alex |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: tiggerdooley Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:49 PM SECOND chances????? That was so long ago... I lost count at about twenty with CERTAIN people I know! |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Rick Fielding Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:50 PM Marty if it's a romantic "second chance" that's a whole different kettle of fish, those have so many "ifs, ands, buts, and so forth, that often second chances end up happening every two weeks and the initial problem is STILL never resolved. I had a serious problem with the actions of someone about a year ago, and really felt pretty lousy about what I thought was gonna be a nice friendship. The person apologised, but sometimes that's just not enough....at THAT TIME. I've come to know a lot about that person and the pressures they were under that seemed to result in some pretty reckless behaviour at the time.More importantly, THEY became aware of why they acted that way. It's much easier to offer a second chance to someone who's gone out of their way to PROVE that they really are a nice person. That person has. Years ago, I could be quite acerbic (naturally, I thought I was just being funny) and I know I hurt a few people QUITE UNINTENTIONALLY. If I could find those folks again, I'd say: "What you thought was caustic, was a really shy introvert trying to fit in, just too damn insecure to be around groups of people without acting like a smart-ass." Hesperis' post rings true to me. You absolutely don't know a person 'til you've had a personal interaction with them. NEVER let someone else poison your mind about a third person, 'cause you simply don't know both sides of THEIR interaction with that person. Wow, this has got me thinking! Well, Jim did it, so I'm gonna too. "Alison Grant,(of Cleveland Ohio) if you're out there....I was a lousy boyfriend, and I'm sorry. You deserved better." Shit, I'd better get back to the "Guitar threads" as well. Rick
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:42 PM Up above there somewhere, Gnu said,
I never had a hand in it. That's why I divorced.
Uh,Gnu............It wasn't your hand that was supposed to be in it. Spaw
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: gnu Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:45 PM Whoa again. Ignore my advice. It may have helped to lead to a more encompassing discussion of the issue at hand, but no more than that. If I did that, well then, I did help the discussion. Clearly, my advice was as short as the initial description of the situation. In any case, best of luck. As well, your sharing has helped others. I know you and the other 'Cats have helped me think about a few things I might not otherwise considered. Thanks all. gnu |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:15 PM Hell gnu, most of us aren't so stupid as to use our hands exclusively anyway. Don't worry about it.......Nobody was listening to silly advice like that anyway. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: gnu Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:54 PM Spaw... it took a while but somebody bit ( go again on this one too, I like setting them up as much as I like biting on them - a double set up; I'm on a roll tonight ). I thought it might be you ! Anyway... OF course, I was obviously referring to the DIScourse which is a part of any INTERpersonal relationship. I can't stop ! As for manual exclusivity, I AM a Hranner, and I can tell you that we Hranners have HIGHLY developed digital dexterity and acuity as well as blazing speed and the ability to vary the beat at will. A magician can pull a rabbit from a hat, but can he pull a ******* from a cat ? Euphemism, Eubroughter. gnu |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Mar 01 - 09:34 PM Second chances? Yes, no, and maybe. It all depends who...and what the situation is. There are some people whom I have given many, many chances...maybe too many. There are others I don't give even one chance. Each case is unique. = LH |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: kendall Date: 23 Mar 01 - 10:11 PM For much of my life I lived behind a wall to keep people out. The hell of it is, it also kept ME IN! I finally knocked the wall down and immediately got hurt. It wasn't fatal and I found that it is much better to feel pain sometimes than to feel nothing all the time. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Naemanson Date: 23 Mar 01 - 11:22 PM I don't know if Marty is reading this and finding helpful advice but I am. The woman who crushed me last year has apparently changed her mind. I don't know what to do about it but I am reading and considering the words of advice being offered here. This is the most difficult decision I have ever faced and I feel as though I am trying to do it without enough information. I don't know that the issues have been resolved or that they can ever be resolved. And on top of that is the broken trust. Second chances? I'd like to say yes but... |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Amos Date: 24 Mar 01 - 12:19 AM I would hazard a guess that betrayal after trust won't mend, unless the person does something extraordinary to defend you, conquer your enemies, or pull off some coup in your interests. It would have to be something out of the ordinary, though. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: GUEST,marty D Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:18 AM Yes, Naemanson I have. Just got home and I'm amazed at how much sharing goes on here. I guess by trying to be circumspect I didn't say that the person who visited me after so long was another guy. Formerly a close friend and buddy. Our falling out was definitely his doing (He did apologize, without re-hashing the whole mess) and he just seems to want to be friends again. I'm willing to try, but I have to feel sure I'm on solid ground here. Maybe there can be a different kind of relationship, but I'm not sure it will ever be as close. Martin |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Naemanson Date: 24 Mar 01 - 07:07 AM I think friendship would be easier to rebuild unless it was one of those extraordinary friendships that come close to being a loving relationship. To my mind there is no closer friend than a lover and when that has been destroyed there is little one can do to rebuild. I think Amos is right. It would take an extraordinary effort to rebuild it and I know she is not one to make extraordianry efforts. She always takes the easy path. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Big Mick Date: 24 Mar 01 - 10:40 AM So much wisdom here, hardly seems like my opinion will add much, but I will post it anyway. Marty, if folks weren't willing to give me a second chance for the all the mistakes I have made in my life, hell..........I would be laying in a gutter somewhere dead or dying. I have felt the sting of rejection and hurt........and I have delivered it. The point is to recognize our own weaknesses, so that we may forgive them in others. Kendall's words ring so true when he describes feeling hurt as proof that one is alive. When you extend your heart, even beyond what some would consider prudent, rest assured it will be hurt. But you may also rest assured that you will gain and regain some of the most phenomenal relationships that one can have. You will experience joy, and pain........passion and heartbreak.........happiness and sadness.............in short, you will live and drink the full measure. Or you can stay within the mental walls and live in a world of your own construct. If I were you, I would revel in the pain of the lesson learned, and then extend your hand in love and friendship and wait for the next lesson. Your life will be full, your friends many, and on the last day of this leg of the journey you will be glad you did so. All the best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: kendall Date: 24 Mar 01 - 01:26 PM Old Arab proverb..Trust everyone, but, tie your camel. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Rick Fielding Date: 24 Mar 01 - 02:08 PM Welcome back Kendall. Don't forget the old Aussie proverb: Tie your Kangaroo Down. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: JeZeBeL Date: 24 Mar 01 - 05:20 PM I believe that evryone can change. I can usually forgive and forget, but it does take a long time to heal sometimes. All I can say is that you should not rush in to things, but if you feel enough for this person, and you haev truly forgiven them, then it is most probably the best thing to do. Try it, you might like it........ Peace, love and harmony on whatever your choice may be. Emma xxxx |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: Peter T. Date: 24 Mar 01 - 06:08 PM I don't know about this one. I give ordinary people a lot of leeway, just because I think life is so hard for everyone, but I can't forgive people who abuse people from positions of power. I was involved in a political struggle over a teacher with AIDS who was sleeping with his unprotected students, and I not only found his conduct unforgiveable, but I never forgave all the people who were trying to come up with excuses for him, and I had to leave the institution. I ended up despising them all, nor, though I understand what was going on, have I mellowed on that. I still get enraged over it. I find many politicians to be unforgiveable, in part because what they do is so important, and they betray the whole institution, not just themselves, so that they may ask for personal forgiveness, but the institution is degraded irrevocably. And people lose their sense of trust. We had a Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, who is one of the few people on the earth whom I despise, and cannot forgive him. If I met him, I would turn and walk away. My reaction to him is much worse than to many people who have done me personal wrongs. In terms of personal wrongs, I think it is much harder to deal with people you have wronged, than the other way around. This is especially true when you have wronged people you don't like. It makes you like them even less. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: kendall Date: 24 Mar 01 - 07:07 PM I feel the same way about that smirking doofus that sort of won our election.Peter, That bastard with aids is unforgivable, and so are the airheads that made the excuses for him. |
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Subject: RE: Second Chances. Do you give them? From: wdyat12 Date: 24 Mar 01 - 07:20 PM I would surely welcome a second chance from a friend I grew up with. I spoke out publicly against an RV campground he and his wife have established in our backyard. He has never forgiven me. I miss going scallop diving with him and just don't think my NIMBY campaign was worth the loss of a friend. I made a serious mistake. wdyat12 |
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