Talking To Americans

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,rhythmpants
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 04:09 PM

I have lived my entire 40years in a border town and man it seems like the truth hurts (eh?)
Realizing that sometimes geographic locations can share certain attributes does't make you racist guys.
Americans for the most part don't know much about other countries cuz "they don't care!!!"- simple- they have a self sufficient attitude and as far as "not so smart" was George Bush elected as President?, Arnold frickin Schwartzawhatever is a Governor???? You couldn't write a movie that bad!!!
                      If it walks like a duck.................

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 09:00 PM

Yup, where there's folk, there's mire.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 08:51 PM

Over 6.3 billion people on this planet, and growing...

That's a lotta jobby, innit?

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 08:30 PM

One solution, that my father-in-law suggested years ago, was an individual septic tank, financed by property taxes, that was then hooked to the sewer system.

Effectively, each household would be attending to it's own primary sewage treatment. All that would have been required would have been periodic solid waste removal from the tanks, as in rural areas and that material then to be sterilized for fertilizer and the primarily treated liquid effluent could then have been addressed by a secondary treatment plant for the collective outflow.

Could have paid for itself in less that 10 years and the fertilizer sales would have made a substantial financial contribution to the system's long term maintenance.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 02:39 PM

Thanks, metchosin. I hadn't a clue about Vancouver's system. I have raw Mexican turds floating past my house, but I refrain from comment because when the rare rainfall hitshere, the surface runoff produces pollution of incomparable degree, for a while. We all have work to do, everywhere. (I'll let y'all change the subject.)

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 01:06 PM

dianavan, I understand where Carol is coming from. On the principle that "evil triumphs when good men [and women] do nothing," if all the decent, caring people fled the country to find havens elsewhere, who would be left to oppose the creeping tyranny taking place here? And how long would it be before it grows to the point where you have to deal with it yet again?

And dianavan, just a point: I live in Seattle, and during the past sixty-some years, I've been to Vancouver several dozen times. I've also been to Victoria. And to Toronto. And I've visited my sister and her husband who live in Kingston. And my son currently lives and works in Ottawa. Regarding the comment about Canadian food, that was a joke. I first heard it from a Canadian. Once again—it was a joke.

(Come to think of it, I have a big slab of smoked salmon, and beer in the fridge. Thanks for reminding me.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 12:23 PM

Oh dear, I feel the urge to defend Victoria from misinformation again, although it really doesn't deserve it. Canada's record for environmental stewardship is on the whole, abysmal.

Heric, mousethief wasn't exactly correct, more likely the turds floating by him are his own or Vancouver's and didn't come from Victoria. As reprehensible as it's track record is, Victoria shits primarily in its own nest and because of tidal action in the area of the outfall, little if anything ends up in Puget Sound according to studies done by The University of Washington's School of Oceanography.

As I once pointed out to mousethief, who was fond of dumping on Victoria for the pollution in Puget Sound, the following information points to sources closer to home, that can't handle effluent capacity when it rains. It was current for the time period of his posts:

"In an average year, Metro and Seattle have discharged about 2.8 billion gallons of raw sewage, untreated storm water and industrial effluents from about 110 CSOs in the Seattle area."

"The discharges from CSOs frequently contain large amounts of fecal coliform bacteria, nutrients, suspended solids, and sometimes toxicants. Sediment samples around the Denny Way CSO in Seattle showed highly elevated concentrations of heavy metals and organic toxicants.
Metro has since capped those sediments. The biota around the CSO was harmed by the discharge, and the area is closed to swimming due to high concentrations of fecal coliform."

Also "According to the Washington State Department of Ecology, more than 2 million of the 4.5 million gallons of used oil discarded in Washington ends up each year in Puget Sound.

Vancouver also, seems quick to condemn Victoria, yet is the worst polluter in the PNW and discharges almost twice the amount of raw sewage into Georgia Strait through it's antiquated system of CSO's, than is dumped by Victoria into the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

The fact is nobody is doing an acceptable job regarding the problem, but everyone is looking for scapegoats instead of solutions.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:30 PM

Carol C, I don't get it. Why do you feel responsible for what happens in the U.S.?

There are many ways of making a difference in how this country does things that require being a resident here and being a voter. If all of the people of conscience leave this country, who will be left to do these things? When I leave Canada to return to the US, I feel a deep pang in my gut. I hate leaving Canada. But I was born in the US, and I'm in a position to try to make a difference for that reason. And what I have learned about myself is that I can't just run away at this point in the history of the world. The stakes are just too high. Plus my son lives in this country, and I want to try to help make it a better place for him.

Interestingly, it will be very easy for me to get my Canadian citizenship. By virtue of being married to a Canadian, I'll automatically be eligible in a little less than two years from now. I'm very much looking forward to that, but I'll not renounce my US citizenship.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 09:05 PM

Amos, it was 26' not 26" (typo).

Carol C, I don't get it. Why do you feel responsible for what happens in the U.S.?

I was born and raised there but I do not feel responsible for a nation that I inherited by birth. I have never, however, denounced my citizenship. On the other hand, my Canadian citizenship was hard-earned and I choose to do what I can to achieve peace in the world from a country where nationalism is practically non-existent.

You're right about Victoria's raw sewage. Its a crime. We're working on it. As far as the stress on the environment...its the Americans that want our hydro electricity, natural gas, water, wood and fish. Yet we see no effort to reduce consumption.   

Don, are you confusing Canadian food for English food? In Vancouver, you can eat food from every country in the world from high end to the low end (which happens to be MacDonalds, TacoTime and Colonel Sanders). I have never had such a selection of quality food! Organic, free range, wild and home grown, too.

Think I'll go snack on some cold-smoked salmon. I wonder if there is any beer left? Speaking of beer...

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 01:50 PM

Thread swept away: Canadians do NOT take better care of the environment. It's a subject that gets my blood pressure up, and I should leave it alone. It's just easy to be misled because the population pressure is not as great. (Mousethief wasn't kidding about Victorian turds floating by his house, supra.)

On the subject of men being brave enough to speak to women: I remember well this young handsome buck who came back to the mill after a vacation in the states telling me that he was going back soon and that I needed to go, with this quote: "The women will TALK to you, I'm not shittin ya!"

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 02:18 AM

But you have better schools and a better education system, Cluin, and that's a fact.

Mary Garvey, some of us believe the US governemt is the one that's spreading tyranny. I think much of the world is trying, desperately, to show us how to stand up to tyranny. I think we may be starting to catch on, though. At least I hope we are.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 01:32 AM

What a lot of poop churned up by a 3 year old thread started by some imposter (with his own cheap axe to grind), posing as a Canadian comedian who had an amusing show back then consisting of a collection of bits culled from "This Hour has 22 Minutes". Nobody with a brain thought it was a real (or even important) representation of anything except a comedy bit. It was funny for Canadians and most Americans wouldn't have gotten the humour because they wouldn't have recognized the bulk of the references. No reason they should have; they centred around Canadian issues and people.

Lighten up, folks! Canadians aren't smarter than Americans (although we ARE funnier ;) ). We have far more in common than we do in contrast.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 01:17 AM

Forgot to mention, dianavan, since my paternal grandfather, my husband, and all of my in-laws are Canadian, not to mention my many many great aunts and uncles and cousins of all sorts, and I spend as much time there as I possibly can, I think I'm not entirely ignorant about Canadians, or about Canada.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: mg
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 12:35 AM

and we just did show the world how to stand up to tyranny. mg

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 11:59 PM

Dianavan --

I presume you mean a 26-foot boat, rather than a 26-inch one. Tribulations can only go so far, after all...


A

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 11:13 PM

Well, since there are plenty of us who stayed in the US and had to deal with pretty much the same thing as you, and we have to take responsibility for whoever becomes president of the US and take shit from people like you, I stand by my assertion.

Btw, I once had a Vietnam Vet husband with PTSD, and I had to chop wood and walk about a quarter of a mile from the road to my house in two feet of snow in sub-zero F temperatures, and haul water, with a three month old baby, etc, etc, etc while living in the US. It's not a uniquely Canadian experience. Moving to Canada would be the easy way out for me, but I stay because I feel responsible for what happens in this country.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 11:01 PM

Well Carol, I don't think moving to Canada with a Vet suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome is exactly the easy way out. Especially when you consider we emigrated on a 26" boat with a 6 month old baby and a German Sheppard in a snow storm. Chopping wood and hauling water aint easy either. Maybe you should move to Canada. It builds character and certainly broadens your perspective.

Actually, there are some things I miss about the U.S. Mostly I really miss the Afro-American culture. I also miss taverns with no cover and good bands (maybe this is a thing of the past) but most of all I miss men who are not afraid to talk to women.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 09:35 PM

It's easy to snipe from the sidelines, dianavan. It's a hell of a lot harder to stay and try to make a difference. You're not in a position to criticize anyone. Moving to Canada is the easy way out. I know. I've thought about doing just that many, many times.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 07:41 PM

Last time I looked I saw that most Americans originally came from some place else. I like the diversity and this goes to the minds of Americans. Thank goodness we don't all agree. I would hate to live in a country where all of it's citizens thought alike.

Frank

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 12:26 AM

We heat up slowly, duckie -- it is part of our basic tolerance to withold judgement a slong as we comfortably can. When the top lows off, though, we often comprise an unstoppable force. Or so we fancy ourselves.

A

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 11:31 PM

O.K., I confess - I was venting. Even if I am disappointed in the apathy of most Americans, it doesn't mean I hate them (me). I grew up there! Most of my family is still there.

Canadians view the U.S. with dread because they know that what is happening there now, will arrive in Canada in about 10 years. Canada is always in fear of being swallowed by the big guy down south but... believe me, Canada is not the land of milk and honey. We're just a little more laid back and take care of the environment a little better. Other than that, there's not much difference.

Hey America, if you can't show us how to stand up to tyranny, who can?

Maybe we should be learning more about those folks in Georgia (Russia - that is).

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 08:32 PM

NH Dave, you say: " ...Mexico or Central America- after all they are only an hour by air from New York!" Just what kind of a plane do you have on that east coast??

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:41 PM

Amos, you said what I intended to say much more clearly. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:23 PM

Actually, I agree with almost everything Dianavan says with the major exception that she addresses her remarks to the entire nation, which cannot be accurate or even seem to intend to be. She seems to be pointing her remarks largely at the profile of the US portrayed on media TV which is pretty wild aim, IMNSHO.

A

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: NH Dave
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:16 PM

Peter T. remarked, "Oh, ho hum. Americans don't know much about Canada."

Sorry, Peter, many of us "Americans" don't know much about the USA either. One of our local magazines gets great mileage about the various verbal gaffes some of make from time to time.

We hear stories about asking postal folks how much extra postage is needed to send a letter to Alasks OR Green Bay, Wis. Others of us get very disturbed that people in Mexico or Central America don't readily speak English, after all they are only an hour by air from New York!

Those of us from the more rural areas find great humor in the odd things city folks say in all seriousness.

NY Twit: Does this road go through to Jacksonville? ( a perfectly normal request if it wasn't said with such a haughty manner)

Local resident: It always has.

Second Local Resident: Did you tell her about the bridge being out/the big rock in the center of the road about 100 yerds down the road?

Local Resident: Nope, She didn't ask me about that.

   Hellacious clang from down the road.

Local Resident: Guess I better get the tractor out, she hit the rock/bridge dead center with her oil pan.

NY Twit: Why didn't you tell me about this rock/bridge?

Local Resident: You didn't ask me about that.

Having said all this, most all of the Canadians I have met here or in Canada seem to be really nice folks who are unfailingly polite, no matter how stupid I seem to get from time to time. They also seem to be much better educated too.

Dave

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 06:38 PM

If a person begins with news media comments (and we all know how reliable they are at all times) about residents of the US (aka 'Americans'), expands that to include all of the 292,287,454 people who live there (which can be refuted by observing any of the many protests that take place every day), and then reduce it to the rediculous extreme by using the 'data' thereby derived to insult US Mudcatters. Sounds reasonable to me.

So, according to dianavan, "America is very public and is in everyone's face. When that is your nature, you leave yourself wide open to criticism. So America... you are big, bold and brassy. You are also loud and ignorant. You are all out of poetry. You need a facelift and a major diet. You need to learn to share and take turns. You are such cowards that you will sacrifice your personal freedom out of fear. You are afraid because you believe the lies of a man you didn't even elect. You roll over like a dead dog. You submit to fingerprinting. You are manipulated by criminals." Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, regardless of what it is. Each of these comments, taken individually, is erroneous of course, but taken as a whole they are similar to those made by many expats I know, from many places.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 04:54 PM

I have close relatives who live in Canada and I could very happily live in Canada myself. If the Shrub wins the next election (or otherwise retains the White House) and things go the way I'm afraid they could, I might give serious consideration to moving north.

But then . . . when was the last time you went out for Canadian food. . . ?

(. . . but I can change . . . if I have to. . . .)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 02:14 PM

Yes, the last mad cow was found to be in Washington state.

It was determined to be from Canada origin.

dianavan,

You can talk about whatever you want and so can I. Your behavior is open for discussion because it can be observed here by your anti-American comments.

As for being an American hybrid, OK that's fine. You owe it to America for your rich and diverse heritage.

What store are you referring to? Is there a problem you have with going to a store? Grocery store? Drug store? Wal-Mart?

If you are happy in Canada over America, maybe we are all better off.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 10:48 AM

I didn't realize enlightenment was a criteria for this discussion or I wouldn't have joined.

Oooohhhh...

Cut to the quick!

I give up, dianavan! You win. You're way to smart for me!

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 02:21 AM

hi dianavan

my latin wisdom means "I can't hear you, I have a banana in my ear!"

best wishes

the not particularly enlightened

f.underhill

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 01:57 AM

I didn't realize enlightenment was a criteria for this discussion or I wouldn't have joined.

The last mad cow was found in Washington State.

My behaviour is not open for discussion since it is not something you can observe.

I can criticize and over generalize the traits of Canadians and U.S. Americans since I am a little of both. Actually I can say what I want about Natives, Danes, Indonesians and Jews, as well, since I am a bit of all that too. My friends call me an American Hybrid.

Yes, I am disappointed by the lack of protest these days. I thought I had passed the torch but maybe you dropped it on the way to the store.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 01:56 AM

"Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure."

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 03:06 PM

Canus corpore transmuto

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 02:32 PM

Trans corpus meum mortuum

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 02:20 PM

Quando omni flunkus moritati.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:12 PM

;-)

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:10 PM

au contraire you whatever-you-are. I am a fifth generation Vancouverite who was born to be an American.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:04 PM

Easy for you to say, heric. You're a Canadian who became a US American.

;-)

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:01 PM

ha! out of poetry. I love it. She sounds very sensible to me, all in all. Not at all smug like a caricatured canuck.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:00 PM

Canadians are wonderful people for the most part, Martin Gibson. But we must keep in mind that dianavan is a US American who became a Canadian.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 11:55 AM

Is dianavan a mad cow?

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 11:48 AM

dianavan, your behavior reminds me more of the kinds of people you're criticizing than anything else. Your generalizations make you sound more ignorant than enlightened.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM

dianavan

Please don't come back.

I see why their are mad cows in Canada.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: beadie
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 11:07 AM

Speaking as an American, I believe that our collective smarts are variable depending on the circumstance. That is to say, the relative proportion of us who demonstrate monumental stupidity is either greater or lesser as a function of the importance of the subject under debate at the moment or the decision that is to be made.

This is most evident during election time (witness the 2000 debacle) and has been a source of material for pundits, comics, and students of human folly for decades.

One of my favorite observations on this phenomenon is attributed to H. L. Menckenm who reportedly said:

    "Nobody ever went broke because he bet against the intelligence of the American public."

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 03:03 AM

Since I was born in the U.S. and I am a Canadian citizen too, I have to add my two cents.

I've been here for almost 30 years (no we were not draft dodgers). Yes, I am angry with my neighbors to the south where the culture of oppression is alive and well. The apathy of those left behing is physically apparent. According to my children, Americans are all too fat!   

To be fair, I realize that America is very public and is in everyone's face. When that is your nature, you leave yourself wide open to criticism. So America... you are big, bold and brassy. You are also loud and ignorant. You are all out of poetry. You need a facelift and a major diet. You need to learn to share and take turns. You are such cowards that you will sacrifice your personal freedom out of fear. You are afraid because you believe the lies of a man you didn't even elect. You roll over like a dead dog. You submit to fingerprinting. You are manipulated by criminals.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 03:06 PM

I would agree with what you said about Canadians being very friendly and not hating Americans also, Carol. I have made many trips up there and have found the people to be very helpful, friendly and funny. It is only here in the forum that I have heard the antiAmerican sentament from Canadians.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 02:47 PM

I'm not quite sure I got what you are saying, LadyJean, but "Talking to Americans" is/was made by Rick Mercer, who is a Newfoundlander himself.

Newfoundland is an amazing place with a very interesting history. It was its own country, and not a part of Canada, until 1949. My father-in-law doesn't consider himself Canadian because he was born before Newfoundland became a part of Canada. My husband, who was born and raised in Newfoundland after Confederation, is proudly Canadian. I've met quite a few Newfoundlanders since I married JtS. All of the ones I've met have great respect for the US and for US Americans. I've not yet met anyone from Newfoundland who hates, or even disrespects US Americans.

My father-in-law tells me that before Newfoundland became a part of Canada, when Newfoundlanders left the island looking for work, mostly they went to the US, most particularly New England (especially Boston). Also, the US put three military bases on the island and not only gave Newfoundlanders jobs, but also paid them twice what the other employers on the island would pay. As a result, many Newfoundlanders wanted their island to become a part of the US instead of Canada when the choice was made.

But in the end, Canada got Newfoundland, which meant that the people who left the island looking for work then had to go to other parts of Canada. This created an influx of Newfoundlanders into other parts of Canada in much greater numbers than before. I think this probably created a situation much the same as in the US when large numbers of people were immigrating to the US from places like Ireland, Italy, and Poland. And we know the results of that: stereotypes and derogatory jokes told at the expense of these groups of people.

I've never met a Newfoundlander who fits the stereotype that seems to be prevalent about them in Canada. The Newfoundlanders I know are some of the most intelligent and industrious people I've ever met. But it helps to understand Newfoundland humor as well. Everybody is fair game, and the best Newfie jokes are told by Newfoundlanders themselves.

I will also say that I've never met a Canadian from other provinces besides Newfoundland and Labrador who hates US Americans. I've been very warmly recieved by pretty much all of the people I've met while in Canada. I feel just as at home in Canada as I do in the US.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: LadyJean
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 11:29 PM

Right, a few of us in the U.S. (Though not me.) saw "Talking to Americans" and got the message we get from such programs, "They all hate us."
This leads to the popular philosophy, "Why should we care what they think, they all hate us."   Which leads to people supporting George W. Bush.
I stopped believing in the inherent virtue of all Canadians when I started telling them about my housemate from Newfoundland. People who didn't know him assumed he was a bum, because he was a "Newf". "He isn't a Canadian, he's a Newf." Somebody actually said that!

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 05:11 PM

Talking to Americans is very funny. Rick Mercer is very, very funny. This Hour Has 22 Minutes is also very, very funny. Any comedy show created by, and with a cast entirely made up of Newfoundlanders couldn't possibly be anything but extremely funny. Canadians are the funniest people in the world, and Newfoundlanders are the funniest Canadians. (Although not all Newfoundlanders consider themselves Canadian). I know these things because I'm married to a Newfoundlander. Interestning how things turn out.

Having said all of that, it's pretty obvious to someone from the US (like me) that a lot of "Talking to Americans" is pretty contrived and the people are set up to look much stupider than they probably are. Personally I don't have a problem with that. US Americans do that sort of thing to other US Americans on TV all the time. And Canadians do it to other Canadians, too.

My only complaint about This Hour Has 22 Minutes these days it that Mary Walsh is no longer on the show. She's a brilliant comedienne.

Subject: RE: Talking To Americans
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 03:20 PM

"how about the toilet where this kind of attitude belongs?"

Says who?

Says YOU?

Tough!