 sj |
||
|
||
Lyr/Tune Req: Song of Amergin
|
|
|
Subject: Song of Amergin From: Susan-Marie Date: 20 Jun 00 - 12:36 PM Has anyone ever heard the Song of Amergin sung? Has anyone ever thought of a tune it might go well with? |
|
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Song of Amergin From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 21 Jun 00 - 08:37 PM There have been a few arrangements, mostly -I think- of Robert Graves' "reconstructed" version. There's Hilary Tann's chamber ensemble piece for flute, viola, and harp, From the Song of Amergin, but that's an instrumental composition "inspired" by the lines "I am a wind: on a deep lake/ I am a tear: the Sun lets fall/ I am a hawk: above the cliff". Ann Silsbee seems to have made a choral arrangement: New York City Women Composers Choral Music...I have no idea what that sounds like, but I have a (probably quite irrational) suspicion that it would be of the "New Age Celtic" sort. I found a mention of what might be an Industrial/Gothic setting of it on an album by Strength Through Joy, Salute To Light. The only recording of the piece that I have actually heard was made by Helen Chadwick in 1997, and called "Who Am I?". It turned up, for no obvious reason, on the CD that came with the first edition of the EFDSS/Unknown Public multimedia magazine Root And Branch, and was apparantly written with Frankie Armstrong's voice in mind. Helen's singing is nice, but very much in the contemporary mode, and the setting is a little anaemic to my mind. To be honest, I suspect that the term "song" is misleading to the modern ear, and should be understood as, not necessarily a set of words with a tune, but as a recitation which may or may not have had a musical accompaniment; consider, for example, The Song of Roland. I was rather taken with Graves' rendering, though, when I first read The White Goddess (oh dear, about 30 years ago!) and if anyone comes up with an appropriately powerful melody for it, I'd love to hear it. Malcolm Messages from multiple threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread. |
|
Subject: song of amergin From: little john cameron Date: 05 Apr 01 - 08:31 PM
This is another Druidic Rite of Assumption . It's a poem dating back to 600 BC Ireland . This rite shood be performed on a hill or cliff in times of high wind . Burn DRAGON'S BLOOD as incense .
I AM A WIND OF THE SEA
I AM A SOUND OF THE SEA
I AM A STAG OF SEVEN TINES
I AM A HAWK UPON A CLIFF
I AM A RAY OF THE SUN . .
I AM THE FAIREST AMONG FLOWERS
I AM A SAVAGE BOAR IN VALOUR
I AM A SALMON IN A POOL .
I AM A HILL OF POETRY
I AM A SPEAR-POINT IN BATTLE . . .
I AM A GOD WHO KINDLES FIRE IN THE HEAD!
WHO BUT I CAN UNFOLD THE SECRETS OF THE UNHEWN DOLMEN?
WHO BUT I CAN MAKE KNOWN THE AGES OF THE MOON?
WHO BUT I CAN SHOW THE SECRET RESTING PLACE OF THE SUN?
|
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: hesperis Date: 05 Apr 01 - 09:05 PM Awesome! Thanks, LJC! Now, is there a tune for that? I always wanted to sing that one. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: SINSULL Date: 05 Apr 01 - 09:11 PM There's a guy on the 42nd ST. "A" train who bellows that every time a train rumbles into the station. But I don't think he's smoking dragons blood. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Sorcha Date: 05 Apr 01 - 11:00 PM "dating back to 600 BC in Ireland" Do you have a source for that date? I'm a cynic, it sounds like something John and Caitlin Matthews wrote..... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Matt_R Date: 05 Apr 01 - 11:34 PM I AM THE WALRUS! |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Sorcha Date: 05 Apr 01 - 11:42 PM Oh, Matt, you are not! You are a smoking dragon!! (as in "lit fuse", not a smoker, OK?)You are the least walrus-y person I have ever known. Now bert, he is "walrus-y", LOL! |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 01 - 12:11 AM Wow! I love it, ljc! Good to see you! |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: hesperis Date: 06 Apr 01 - 12:34 AM Taliesin wrote it, didn't he? I know he had something to do with it. Sorcha, this is ancient stuff, translated. The original is Gaelic, I believe. I saw it in the Golden Bough, and also in a book about Druidic Bard songs... I just wish I'd had the $50 to buy the book... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Peg Date: 06 Apr 01 - 12:52 AM this is credited to many sources; it is indeed very old. It's in The White Goddess too...I saw a really neat version translated from the Irish; must try to dig that up... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 01 - 12:58 AM I found this at paganart.com:
Song of Amergin: Line by Line The Celtic tree calendars is one of favorite devices keeping the year in a pagan perspective, a reminder of the cycles of nature, when the modern world wants us to ignore nature. When I first started learning about paganism and celtic mythology, I stumbled across the Celtic Tree Calendar. Most of the information on the calendar was vague at best, just enough to give the general layout of calendar and the dates for the months. People also mentioned that Robert Graves had made fabricated the calendar. If you read "The White Goddess you realize that the tree calendar is not based on historical fact but the interpretation of epic poetry. Robert Graves compared poetic themes and motifs that occured repeatly and were adhered to over time and different cultures. Hidden in the poetry he saw a yearly cycle, a calendar. One of Graves most important sources for the Celtic Tree Calendar is the Song of Amergin, an early celtic poem that was uttered by the chief bard of the Milesians as he set foot upon Ireland. I have seen the Song of Amergin posted all over the web and reprinted in many books, but never any explanation of how the poem and the calendar relate to each other. The poem is divided into two stanzas of seven lines. All are statements that start with I am expect of the final line which asks a question. The first stanzas relates to the first have of the year. Graves give the follow relationships: 1. I am the stag of seven tines: the letter B or beth, refers to the Birch tree. This line refers the Herculean stag of seven tines. In some versions it is bull of seven fights. Historical the stag and bull have meanings that and are often interchangeable. This is the begin of year. 2. I am a wide flood on a plain: the letter L or Luis and refers to the Rowan tree or Quickbeam. Simple the months of floods or rain, also called the fill dyke month. 3. I am a wind on the deep waters: the Letter N or Nion the Ash tree or World tree in Norse Mythology. It comes in like a lion, with the roaring of the wind that dries the floods. 4. I am a shining tear of the sun: the Letter F or Fearn or the Alder tree. Graves states the is Fearn is best explained by the a medieval carol:
He came all so still 5. I am a hawk on a cliff: the letter S or Sallie refers to the Willow tree and is the month when birds come to nest. The bird most often associated with this month is the hawk. Welsh court bards often referred to their patrons as hawks a symbol of the north wind. 6. I am a fair amongst flowers: the letter H or Uath or the hawthorn tree, starting in the second half of May is the season of flowers and the Hawthorn or May Tree rules. 7. I am a god who sets the head afire with smoke: the letter D or Duir refers to the Oak tree. Robert Graves said" The mean is I think, that the painful green smoke gives inspiration to those who dance between the twin sacrificial fires lighted on midsummer Eve." The second stanza is the last half of the year. 8. I am the battle-waging spear: the letter T or Tinne the Holly tree. It is the spear month, the month of the tanist, The letter t was shaped like a barbed spear. 9. I am a salmon in a pool: the C or Coll, the Hazel tree. It is the nut month. It is the mating season for salmon and the salmon is king of the riverfish. A salmon in a pool is an emblem of philosophical retirement. The next three months are not trees but plants related to the harvest, and the coming of winter. 10. I am a hill of poetry: the letter M or Muin refers to grape vine and the harvest. The grape vine is the prime tree of Dionysus. Wine is universally associated with poetic inspiration. 11. I am a ruthless boar: is the letter G or Gort and is ivy. It is the month of the boar. The egyptian god Set disguised himself as a boar to kill Osiris of the Ivy. October was the traditional boar hunting season . The boar is the beast of death and October is the begin of the fall of the year (Samhain). 12. I am a threatening noise from the sea: the letter NG or Ngetal and represents the reed or what was commonly called broom. This is the month when the terrible roar of the breakers and the snarling noise of the pebbles is heard on the Atlantic coast and the wind whistles dismally through the reed-beds of the rivers making a sound reminiscent of Pans flute. In Ireland the roaring of the sea was prophetic of the kings death. 13. I am a wave of the sea: the letter R or Ruis the elder tree. This is the month when the waves returns to the sea and the year ends start back at it's watery beginnings. In Irish and Welsh poetry "A wave of the is called the "sea-stag" relating the first line of "I am the stag of seven tines". 14. Who but I knows the secret of the unhewn dolmen?": This was Robert Graves key to the arrangement of the alphabet. Why? The alphabet is best explains itself when built as a dolmen of constants and threshold of vowels. But we'll save that explanation for next issue.
Secret of the Unhewn Dolmen *kat here: I'll go back and see if I can find the rest of this. Also found another verse. Will be back in a mo'. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 01 - 01:04 AM Some more verses and the rest of the above article: Amergin, Bard of the Milesians, lays claim to the Land of Ireland
I am a stag: of seven tines,
I am a spear: that roars for blood,
I am the womb: of every holt,
Song of Amergin translated by Robert Graves, from The White Goddess, Faber and Faber Limited, 24 Russell Square London WC1. It appears here under the principle of Fair Use. AND:
Secret of the Unhewn Dolmen The alphabet best explains itself when built as a dolmen of constants and threshold of vowels. A dolmen according to the Oxford American Dictionary is a prehistoric structure with a large flat stone laid across to upright ones. A dolmen is a sacred doorway. To the Celts a doorway was bridge between this world and the otherworld. A paradox that was in both worlds but in neither world at the same time. A dolmen would signify a doorway between worlds and a magical place. A dolmen is also a burial chamber or earth womb for a dead hero who is buried in the fetal position awaiting rebirth. How are dolmen associated with calendars, Irish mythology tells of the flight of Diamurid and Grainne from Finn Mac Cool. For a year and a day they fled from Finn Mac Cool. The lunar calendar is year and a day and makes one solar year. Each night the lovers bedded by a fresh dolmen, Beds of Diamuird and Grainne are found in Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and the West, all mark with a dolmens. Calendar and the Dolmen The line "Who but I knows the secret of the unhewn dolmen" is spoken by the new year's child and is the threshold of the dolmen. The central triad of letters on the threshold O,U,E backwards is the sacred name of Dionysus EUO or in english EVOE. The five vowels also signify the five fold goddess of the white ivy leaf: birth, irritation, love, repose and death. The months of the year start at the bottom of the left upright and wrap around the dolmen in a clockwise motion. The winter months at the bottom of the upright , furtherest from the sun then the spring months and the summer on the lintel(top) of the dolmen closest to the sun and the warmest months of the year. The righthand upright is the autumn months and the beginning of winter. Male and Female Aspects Tree have either a male or female qualities. Trees like willow have strong feminine qualities. But the feminine aspects seems to be minimal in the Song of Amergin. There is mention of Hercules and Dionysus and strong association with the sun and the solar cycle, but where is the female aspect hidden? Remember the months of the year are based on the lunar cycle or the feminine. What has been lost in the modern translation of mythology is the fact that heroes like Achilles, Hercules and even Dionysus lived for a time disguised as maids in the women's quarters. In the Amergin Cycle (there are several version of the song) in which instances of the line "I have been a maiden ..." appear. In Classic Crete boys not old enough to bear arms (scotoi) where members of the womens quarters. Then when given arms the boy flies off like a royal griffin or hawk. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Sorcha Date: 06 Apr 01 - 01:15 AM OK, I was just curious......not nit picking. Never ran across this one before. It is lovely. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Peg Date: 06 Apr 01 - 01:18 AM wow kat! very thorough! great stuff, this. Robert Graves was a genius. I don't care if half of what modern pagans take for ancient archeology emerged fully-formed from his giant brain; he RULES!!! Oh love, be fed with apples while you may...
|
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 01 - 03:01 AM Thanks, Peg. I forgot to make a link to that site. Have you ever come across it before? I just did a search on google and found PAGANART.COM with free pagan clipart and what looks like some other really interesting stuff. The other verses I found were at www.amergin.net. BTW, how is your housing situation doing? |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: wdyat12 Date: 06 Apr 01 - 04:20 AM little john cameron, Thank you. I AM AWED. wdyat12 |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: GUEST,micca at work Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:07 AM For a Bardic exercise, I had to a "modern poem " version and using modern poetic rhythm systems for this while preserving the music, I was told that the Graves et al. was too literal a translation and had "lost the rhythm of the words" I will publish it here if it seems appropriate..,and once I get home and can acess it. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:50 AM Robert Graves' re-invention of the text has been set to music a number of times in recent years, not always terribly well; I have a recording of it by one Helen Chadwick, for example, which is pleasant enough if undistinguished. Obviously, there is no traditional melody for it; it may indeed never have been sung in any case. Equally, any "rite" associated with it will be a modern invention. A date of 600BC is completely unprovable and almost certainly wildly exaggerated; the text comes from a medieval Ms. made by monks, I forget which one. The White Goddess is a lovely (though difficult) book which impressed me very much when I first read it at the age of perhaps thirteen, but as other people have already said, Graves made very little distinction between genuine information and the products of "poetic inspiration", so it's pretty much worthless as a textbook! Malcolm |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Peg Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:25 AM kat: thanks for asking. No news yet. Methinks this poetry might prove handy, though, in my magical work to improve the situation...reaffirms identity and courage and faith and all those things that make us able to cope with adversity...I have been thinking lately, no matter what situation is uppermost in our thoughts, it is important to stay balanced and address EVERYTHING we'd like to improve in our lives...this poem reaffirms that thought. I love serendipity. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: little john cameron Date: 06 Apr 01 - 01:09 PM I invoke the land of Ireland. Much-coursed be the fertile sea,
Fertile be the fruit-strewn mountain,
Fruit-strewn be the showery wood,
Showery be the river of water-falls,
Of water-falls be the lake of deep pools,
Deep pooled be the hill-top well,
A well of the tribes be the assembly,
Tara be the hill of the tribes,
The tribes of the sons of Mil,
Of mil be the ships the barks,
Let the lofty bark be Ireland,
Lofty Ireland Darkly sung,
An incantation of great cunning;
The great cunning of the wives of Bres,
The wives of Bres of Buaigne;
The great lady Ireland,
Eremon hath conquered her,
Ir, Eber have invoked for her.
I invoke the land of Ireland.
Amergin, The Book of Invasions
|
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: little john cameron Date: 06 Apr 01 - 01:15 PM http://www.union.edu/PUBLIC/PARTDEPT/TANNH/Amergin.JPG THIS SHOULD BE PART OF THE SCORE. ljc |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Amergin Date: 06 Apr 01 - 03:59 PM nice to see something i wrote to be discussed at such length.... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: harpmolly Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:43 PM LOL...I wondered when you'd pipe up, Nathan. ;) FYI, Anuna does a wonderful version of this on "Invocation" (their second album). I highly recommend that album on all counts ("Winter, Fire and Snow," is another great track). And while I'm shamelessly plugging, this poem also figures in Tom Cowan's book "Fire in the Head: Shamanism & the Celtic Spirit." I read that book several years ago and it gave me a lot of great insights into Irish mythology and spiritual character. Great book. M |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Amergin Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:49 PM Yeah, well, I am having computer issues at home...so I'll only have access here at work until my piece of shit compaq gets fixed... Thanks for the heads up on that book, Molly....I'll keep an eye out for it!
|
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Matt_R Date: 06 Apr 01 - 06:55 PM Ooooooh Anuna!!! I love "Winter Fire And Snow", but like the Katie McMahon solo version better, with her singing and playing harp. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:43 PM Amargin tells us in The Tain (after other boasts), that he is a prince and a poet (but no druid), and he is beholden to no one but his king, Conchobar, whose sister, Finnchaem, bore his son, Connal Cernach. Fergus mac Roich, Connal and a few others were concerned with finding a new wife for Cuchulain, and found Emer.
'Cuchulain caught sight of the girl's breasts over the top of her dress. "I see a sweet country," he said. "I could rest my weapon there". Wheich he did after satisfying Emer's demands.
Emer contented him for a while but it was soon time to get the big bull, so off to the cattle raid of Cooley (Emer need bigger pizzle?). But Fergus, being in bad graces with Conchobar for defending Deirdre and the sons of Uisliu (Usnoth) went over the water to join other Scots (as Irish were called then) in southwest Scotland (Argyle and near by islands). The exact date is not known, but it was very close to 500 CE (and you will see him mentioned in very early Welsh tales as a (distant) ally of King Arthur.
Amargin could not have been around much before 485 CE, and his 'prophesy' seems to me to be almost a parody of the song that Taleisin sang to Maelgwyn Hir (d. c 543 of plague). It's listed in the index of the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website as "Taleisin's bragging song", so just click on it. [for Taliesin's similar prophecies see Ford's 'Mabinogi'] |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Amergin Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:06 PM I was unaware that Amergin was in the Tain.... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Apr 01 - 09:55 PM He's in there all right. Bruce knows what he's talking about. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Peg Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:08 PM Yes, Fire in the Head is indeed a great book! BTW, along the lines of combining the shamanism craze with the "wild man" craze (a la Robert Bly's "Iron John"), some clown suggested a (fake) book entitled "Fire in the John"... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: GUEST,#1 Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:36 PM "Fire down below" is easily accomplished with Spanish fly. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Peg Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:39 PM Spanish fly is known to cause more than painful erections; it also often causes death. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Amergin Date: 07 Apr 01 - 02:46 AM Ok, well, I'll go looking for him, when I have a chance to...it has been a couple of years since I last read it... |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: alison Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:43 PM someone mentioned "winter,fire and snow"... see if you can get a hold of Benita Hill's version..... it is on a CD (?Narada) called Celtic Christmas...... absolutely gorgeous........ slainte alison |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Amergin Date: 07 Apr 01 - 06:50 PM ok I have been trying to find me in there (the Tain)...is there a specific section that I can pinpoint me in? |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: GUEST,#1 Date: 07 Apr 01 - 07:01 PM Really lost when you can't find even yourself. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 07 Apr 01 - 07:50 PM "The Four Seasons" is put in Amhairghen's mouth, #16 in Kenneth Jackson's 'A Celtic Miscellany', but the footnote is: Irish; author unknown; eleventh century. In Ford's 'Mabinogi', p. 18: As O'Rahilly rightly saw, Amergin has been "borrowed from Irish mythology," the seer of the pantheon, wisdom itself. In Welsh one of his names is Taliesin; .... It doesn't look like Amergin really existed.
|
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: hesperis Date: 16 Apr 01 - 10:15 AM Amergin would be really upset to hear you say that, Bruce! |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:38 AM Though Amargin appears in Thomas Kinsella's edition of the Táin, it's actually in one of the prologue stories; "How Cuchulainn Was Begotten" (Compert ConCulainn), in which the men of Ulster argue over who is to bring up the young hero, rather than in the Táin proper; hence the confusion earlier. Malcolm |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Amergin Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:43 PM OH, Ok, Malcolm. thanks! |
|
Subject: winter, fire and snow From: GUEST,guest, probably Date: 21 Apr 04 - 07:18 PM does anyone have the lyrics to anuna's version of 'witer, fire and snow'? thought I'd just ask... dagster Click here for Winter, Fire, & Snow thread. |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Stewart Date: 21 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM There's a downloadable mp3 file of this (Mystery of Amergin, track 3) on Paddy Graber's new CD HERE. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: GUEST,Dáithí Date: 22 Apr 04 - 04:39 AM Anybody have a source for the original , in Irish, please? GRMA - Dáithí |
|
Subject: RE: song of amergin From: Pied Piper Date: 22 Apr 04 - 07:10 AM I think a date of 600 BC is well dodgy. In aural traditions real people become mythological characters in 200 years or so. With all things "Celtic" you have to be very careful to check the sources. I've read all kinds of unsubstantiated bollox including the personal name of the sacrifice victim found on Lindow common. I'm shore your all aware of the Gundestrup Caldron found in Denmark and practically all the books on "Celtic" mythology I've seen have a photo, but it never shows the panel with the Elephant. There was a great article about the Caldron in Scientific American about 10 years ago and it seems to have been made in Scythia or there about's from Greek Silver coins. PP |
| Share Thread: |