BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient

Subject: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Bagpuss
Date: 02 May 01 - 09:54 AM

Well, I've finally done it. I have given up chocolate, except for when I buy the fair trade variety. I was sick of being a hypocrite. We were all so caring and concerned about that African boat trafficking child slaves and saying what a terrible thing slavery is, when all the while we continue to stuff our face with chocolate, 70% of which contains cocoa produced by these slaves. So I'm not going to do it anymore. I can cross that off the list of my hypocritical behaviours. Many more to go I fear.

Anyone care to join me?

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 May 01 - 10:06 AM

About 8 years ago we were on what was, for me, the first trip to the Black Hills. Pretty pretty earrings everywhere we went-- made from genuwine "Black Hills Gold." Little miniature pinecones, leaves... I bought the earrings and searched in vain for the matching necklace I had neglected to buy when I first saw it. So pretty... I was newly in love and this was a place very dear to my new family... really wanted this necklace on many levels.

Till I learned how the whites had gotten those hills. I didn't know. Polite people are so gomorrahfied about this story that they mostly do not speak of it. I learned about it through an audio book, a recording we bought of Native American wisdom.... an oral history lesson delivered by the remnants of the massacred.

I was sick. I was the kind of sick I think a person would be if they found out the meal they had just downed with gusto had been human flesh. Get-it-away-from-me sick, and nowhere to run to get away from it.

So I stopped chocolate already. I finished the cocoa mix I had on hand as a way of underlining the memory of that ship and the outrage that filled me the day I learned of it.

I had used chocolate to adjust body chemistry, medicinally, many a time. The next time that need hits... I dunno how exactly, but I know the intensity of it will renew that commitment to justice just like the memory of Black Hills Gold still does today.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 01 - 02:24 PM

I dont eat chocolate anymore. I also stopped buying Exxon products right after the Exxon Valdez spill. I would never buy Nike sneakers, and now, if it is made in China, I pass it by.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 May 01 - 02:52 PM

Yes. I can do this! Now how do we get the world to participate?

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Gervase
Date: 03 May 01 - 04:46 AM

Good for you Bagpuss! You may be just a saggy cloth cat, but you've got a heart.
What is so sad is that so many of the British chocolate companies were started by Quakers (often because they felt that ethically they could not involve themselves in any business to do with armaments or with banking) - they'd be appalled if they knew the modrn global ramifications of the trade.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:12 AM

Anyone who can't really give up chocolate but feels guilty about the way it is produced should look out for fairly traded goods. In the UK Traidcraft and Oxfam have them (I'm sure you can order on the 'net too).

Some Coffee producers get a bad deal as well, being paid very little by buyers who then make vast profits. You can get fairly traded coffee at the same outlets.

By buying fairly traded products you are not only avoiding supporting slavery and exploitation in the Third World, but you are still supporting Third World economies.

Les

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:16 AM

Traidcraft here

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: nutty
Date: 03 May 01 - 06:47 AM

Excellant site Les
I suspect that you have just caused Bagpuss loads of anguish *grin*
Prices seem equivalent to local shops as well

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Bagpuss
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:30 AM

Most supermarkets stock fair trade tea and coffee too. I don't have to worry about those as I drink neither.

I must admit to an ulterior motive for the chocolate giving up (though I like to think it was just the spur which got me to do the right thing). I am taking medication which has given me a huge appetite. I don't stop eating all day and chocolate is the worst temptation. That wasn't a problem to begin with as I was pretty underweight, but now I have put on over a ston in the last couple of months and all my bra's are too small! I hate bra shopping, so I have to stop putting on weight!

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Bagpuss
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:47 AM

"Ston"?

Did I mean a stone or a ton?

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:50 AM

Ston is exactly how we say it in Hull! For the geographically challenged it means 14lbs (pounds weight)

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 May 01 - 10:36 AM

By the way, 'puss, supermarkets are evil! I know they are convenient but they're still evil. I avoid them as much as I can, but I appreciate that I have plenty of time, live in a city centre, where there's a little more choice, and don't own a car.

I make a exception for the Co-operative Group, though. You can get information about their ethical buying policy from their website Co-op

Ethics Man

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Bagpuss
Date: 03 May 01 - 10:44 AM

Well Les, it's a good job that my local supermarket is a Co-op. I try to support small local shops as much as possible, especially as Im off work sick so I have the time. Its a bit more difficult when I'm working, but I do my best.

Here's a fair trade link for the Yanks:

Click here

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: GUEST,Vestal Jande
Date: 03 May 01 - 11:08 AM

There is a lovely chocolate made by a south american tribe that is sold in the health food store in Orillia. I can't remember the name of it right now (Rainforest?)

It is sold , IIRC, to support the tribes to keep control over their own lives and to keep the rainforests from being burned down to make room for, of all things, cattle !

I'm allergic to chocolate (caffiene, I think) and to milk. but I still indulge myself once in a while with their dark semisweet chocolate. (though not right now with the early bloomimg trees screwing up my singing voice.)

~ Jande

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 May 01 - 11:23 AM

Bagpuss - yes I know you're a very thoughtful and caring saggy cloth cat. I also realise that I've been Professor Yackling a lot (nyerph, nyerph - you shouldn't go so a supermarket, you know). It's a pity that we can't get the general public to understand this better. Mudcatters have a much higher conscience quotient than average.

Les

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Terry K
Date: 03 May 01 - 01:23 PM

Wow Bagpuss, I can't wait to see why all your bras are now too small! So is this extra stone evenly distributed - y'know, like half a stone on each?

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 May 01 - 01:45 PM

Don't forget that hypocrisy is a PLUS, not a minus, in most human interactions. Read Miss Manners if you wonder what I mean. And this from someone who is from Africa but still eats chocolate... I also eat meat... but I also shop in small stores, buy gas from local firms rather than the biggies, and no longer wear Nikes since the pair I got in 1979 finally fell apart. Whatever you may say about their production now, they USED to make a great sneaker. Try wearing anybody's shoes now for 20+ years and see who measures up! I also had a Timex that lasted for about 10 years, including adolescence and several trips through the washing machine and even dryer, then finally was destroyed... tried to buy another Timex one December and the humidity and pressure on a PLANE trip killed it before I even got home for $mas! (Sorry, off topic, but part of why I don't buy from big names now isn't philosophy, but the fact that they don't make products worth spending any real money on any more. Maybe if more people voted with their feet, as the quaint saying goes, the rest of this could follow naturally...)

Subject: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 May 01 - 03:50 PM

In my old age, I've become what I call a "radical moderate." When I was young, I saw things very clearly, and my ideology was pure. When I was a sophomore in high school in 1964, I admired the passion and clarity of vision of the conservatives and I worked hard in the Goldwater for President campaign; and I still admire Goldwater's integrity and passion. By 1968, I was a liberal, involved in the civil rights and peace movements, and boycotting lettuce and grapes in support of the United Farm Workers. I've remained quite liberal in my viewpoint ever since, but I'm no longer a purist. I guess you could call me a "democratic socialist," but I have an annoying tendency to see good in the thinking and actions of conservatives and capitalists.

If I seek ideological purity, I am doomed to a life of failure and hypocrisy. Life is too complex and dirty for that, and it's impossible to live it with complete purity. I may boycott a brand of sneakers because they employ people at substandard wages, but then I deprive a family of the admittedly meager wages they would have earned from that pair of sneakers. I may be able to feed my children a diet of only organic and politically correct vegetables and grains, but can the whole world survive on such a diet? What about all those carnivorous birds and mammals walking the earth - should we figure out a way to encourage them to become vegetarians?

I suppose it's true that big corporations have very small consciences, but it's also true that the income earned by the big corporations supplies retirement income to millions of wonderful grandmas and grandpas.

There is very little in this world that is black and white, and there is a whole lot of grey. We are all doomed to live a life of moral compromise. Is this hypocrisy? No, I don't think so. We have to keep pushing the world toward the good, but we have to keep our feet planted in reality if we are to accomplish anything.

So, I'd like to apologize to all of you who are hurt by my Wednesday trips to McDonald's to feast on 39-cent cheeseburgers. I'm aware of the disappearing rain forests and the misery the cows endure, and I appreciate the sincerity of those who live their lives with global vision. For me, though, it's just a cheeseburger, and it tastes good.

I am engaged to marry a woman who is wonderfully and hopelessly idealistic. She seems to be quite comfortable with my cheeseburger habit and my AT&T stock, but it's going to take me a while to develop a way of cooking that accommodates both of us.

-Joe Offer, a living moral compromise-

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Kim C
Date: 03 May 01 - 03:57 PM

I'm with Joe. Ideological purity and consistency are sometimes hard to achieve. The best defense is to be informed, I suppose, and make your own decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Peg
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:55 PM

true enough, you CAN buy chocolate that is produced by more fair-minded cooperative style farms and factories...

Like Kendall, I also stopped patronizing Exxon (it REALLY Pisses me off that they still sponsor Masterpiece Theatre; I used to work at WGBH and many who wokr there refuse to call it "Exxon-Mobil Masterpiece Theatre") years ago.

I will not buy Nike products and urge others not to.

years ago I put a lot of energy into campaigning for a Humane Farming Initiative in Massachusetts. It did not pass, mainly because of a big-money counter campaign funded by the Farm Bureau (Save the Family Farm! Vote No on #4!--what rot. These people are the ones who put farmers out of business).

In support of this I try very hard not to purchase or eat anything that is nor organically grown or humanely-raised.

I am one of the few pagans I know (surprisingly enough) who puts energy into the recycling thing on a consistent basis. I have attended a small pagan gathering in Florida three times now and they do not separate ANY of their trash; not even glass bottles...

I don't drink Coke either (hard to avoid patronizing that company as they own so much of the world).

Peg

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From:
Date: 04 May 01 - 12:38 AM

I have tried to find out more about this chocolate/slavery issue. I didn't get to far but found there is a label called "fairtrade" I think that means slaves were not used. I am not sure. Does anyone know about the major chocolate producers: Hershey, Ghiradelli, etc....How about Paul Newman?

mg

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Bagpuss
Date: 04 May 01 - 08:40 AM

mgarvey - check the links we posted above for British and American fair trade companies. They have plenty of information about what they do and how you can help.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: sian, west wales
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:18 AM

Heard a nice little statistic recently: small shops/business in Britain employ 5 times the number of people that supermarkets do. I've always done a fair bit of shopping in non-chain establishments (and more so since Foot & Mouth) but I do like stats that shore up my beliefs.

sian...

... just noticing two college girls nude sun-bathing on the roof opposite the office - where have all the young men gone? (as a musical aside)

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:48 AM

mgarvey - I think that the US link should be click here

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:52 AM

Sorry I'll try again click here

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Jande
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:28 AM

My dear mrrzy!

I couldn't agree with you more!

I'm always voting with my feet and often deriving myself of the thing I want/need because I refuse to purchase something

1) of low quality.

2) of decent quality but overpriced

3) of an origin that goes against my own conscience.

4) from a place or person who does not treat me like a flesh and blood human being.

5) from a place or person that gives me a "creepy" feeling.

~ Jande

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Jande
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:41 AM

Well said, Joe!

The only thing that is really Black & White these days is that new computer game. And I'm not so sure about that now I've played it for a number of hours. ;`)

~ Jande

Subject: RE: BS: Reducing my hypocrisy quotient
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:44 AM

Hey Sian, your office need a marketing person? Maybe I need a job where I have, um, scenery to look at out my window! (at least I *have* a window, but it overlooks the parking lot. No sunbathers, in bathing or birthday suits.)

Also, thanks, Jande.