BS: British or European?

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GUEST,Adolfo
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:33 AM

Well, I think that being European is a bit like being in love: if you don't know whehter you are o not, most probably you aren't. Here in Spain it's difficult to find anyone who is expressedly against the idea of Europe. Even Secesionist Basques or Catalonians will deny their Spanishness in favour of their absolutely-clear Europeism. As for the British...well, things are different when seen on this side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 09:37 AM

You might guess that Irish people would also have problems with being European - living on an island, cultural links with the English-speaking world, etc - but generally speaking they don't, they are happy to be part of Europe.

After all, the rest of Europe takes us seriously, something many British people have never done.

In fact, I think the whole difficulty for some British people with the EU comes from their reluctance to take anyone seriously but themselves.

By the way, CarolC, why not call yourself a 'US American'?

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: Fiolar
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 09:46 AM

Funny really what all the fuss is about. When most of the ancestors of today's "English" came from Europe as invaders in the first place. Even the very word "English" denotes the early Germanic settlers of Britain (Angles, Saxons and Jutes) (OE dictionary). Not forgetting of course George the German who replaced Queen Anne in the 18th century. All the hoo-hah about "save the pound" is a load of Tory bollocks. I don't give a damn what currency I get paid in as long as it buys me the simple needs of life. Pity we still don't use the original meaning of "Tory." As a kid in Ireland we referred to pine cones as "Tory Tops."

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 01:05 PM

To claim British culture is not European is to show a limited grasp of British culture.

In the same way, there are very strong European links in US culture, but that has diverged much further from Europe.

As for our Economic ranking, the gulf between us and "number 1" is what makes our position totally irrelevent.

G

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GUEST,Gareth
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:04 PM

Speaking as a Welshman, remeber the old saw :-

"Another triumph for Britain !"

or

"England looses again !"

Though speaking historically, my ancestors marched through mud, blood, flood, and disease to cut the French to shreds at Agincourt, with the long bow, to be told that this was a triumph of english arms.

Outside of the original Spin Doctor - one Will Shakespear - is there any Ballard or Folk Song which records the feats of the South Wales bowmen ?

NB Harlech is in North Wales !

Gareth

( aka Garydd )

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:34 PM

By the way, CarolC, why not call yourself a 'US American'?

--GUEST,Airto

Yeah. I forgot about that. I actually have referred to myself in that way before. Believe it or not, I stopped doing it because it felt a bit pretentious. Please believe me when I tell you, the North Americans I have met who are not from the U.S. are not troubled in the least by the use of the term 'American' by citizens of the U.S. In fact a lot of them seem to like being able to make the distinction between themselves and 'Americans'.

That's why many Canadians like to travel abroad wearing the Canadian flag where it can be easily seen. In fact, if I ever travel abroad, I might consider wearing a Canadian flag myself. According to most of the Canadians I've met, I've already got the accent. And if what I've been reading in various threads here in the Mudcat is any indication, I'll recieve much better treatment.

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: wdyat12
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:43 PM

NO! Britain and Europe are 20 miles apart. Only the Chunnel and bad Royal marriages connect them.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 07:53 PM

What about Hawaii, then, wdyat12? Is it not a part of the U.S.? (Or were you just joking?)

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 08:13 PM

"I think we must stop being insular." I can't see how you can live on an island and not be insular. And of course Great Britain is only the largest of the many islands that are part of Europe. But a lot closer to the mainland than the second biggest, Iceland. (Scarpi - do you think of yourself as living in Europe?)

How do Hawaiians deal with the fact that, while they are in the United States of America, they are not actually Geographically in America, North, South or Central? Essentially the same situation as the French in St Pierre and Miquelin which Les from Hill brought up.

And of course I'd refer to people from Latin America as being Americans. (After all, Cubans have never gone in for saying "Cuba Si, Americano No", but rather "Yanqui No"..., which suggests to me a certain irritation at having the name of two continents appropriated by a single country.)

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 08:27 PM

You have an interesting point, McGrath of Harlow. I would be interested in hearing what people from Mexico, Central America, and Cuba have to say about that.

I also think it would be interesting to hear what Puerto Ricans have to say about it. They are citizens of the U.S., but do they refer to themselves as Puerto Ricans or Americans?

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: vindelis
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 09:13 PM

A Portlander definitely. Just ask anyone who knows me. I might occaisionaly call myself English/British, but Europe is on the other side of the Channel and it can stay there. At least our American brethren use the same words, even if there is the odd diffeence in definition.

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 09:37 PM

British/Canadian... Europe is a continent and not a national identity. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Jun 01 - 08:51 AM

Fascinating how we manage to bundle other nations into one continental identity but don't want to have it applied to ourselves -Asians, Africans we use these terms everyday and never think twice about it.

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Jun 01 - 02:39 PM

Gareth, remember ( - cofia - ) that Shakespeare's granny was Welsh - hence, Puck in A Midsummer's Night Dream (pwca - also the base of the word Bug - as in Millenium...)

sian

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: Rebel135
Date: 02 Jun 01 - 04:33 PM

What Would Winston Say!!???

I'm sorry you guys all feel confused. As an American I see very distinct differences between the say Italians and the Swedish and the British.

Why are you confused?

Being American is much cultural as anything else.

Coming to American and declaring yourself an American may make you feel better but its not the truth.

Just because the politicans feel that the British and the French should be closer together does'nt make you the same in my book.

A Rebel Wes Prichard

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 01 - 08:30 PM

One of the oddest things is the way that, when the word Asian is used , it often is not taken as including Chinese or Japanese - for example in the recent census we had here. In fact as used commonly it just means people from India, Pakistan and Bangla Desh and Sri Lanka.

Being American is much cultural as anything else. But surely there isn't just one American culture any more than there is one European culture? It's divided up all ways. And for all that, there's a commonality, as with the various people in Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GUEST,CarolC, not at home
Date: 02 Jun 01 - 09:59 PM

"Being American is much cultural as anything else."

--Rebel135

As an American, I have to say that I haven't the beginnings of a clue about what 'being American' is. I have no sense of cultural identity with this place. It's just the place where I live. There's too much cultural diversity here for anyone to try to define what it means to be 'American'.

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: Yankee Gal
Date: 03 Jun 01 - 12:13 AM

ok I was always confused by Iceland and Greenland. are they just considered orphaned islands in the middle of nowhere or are they Euros? Has anyone there awoken from your winter slumber so you can straighten out this mess?

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jun 01 - 05:33 AM

Mcgrath of Harlow & CAROL C.

As an American, I have to say that I haven't the beginnings of a clue about what 'being American' is. I have no sense of cultural identity with this place. It's just the place where I live. There's too much cultural diversity here for anyone to try to define what it means to be 'American'.

As a reply I would say

One of the failings we have as a culture is that sometimes we dont replicate our culuture from generations to generation.

I have maintained for some time that "The Yankees" of Civil War fame are gone.

The cultural of heritage of the Massachusetts of Daniels Webster day is remembered in a vague way.

How Stands The Union.... You better have his answer or he will rise right of his grave... Webster was not kidding.

What is an American? Its a cultural idea, just like an Englishman in one of the Gilbert and Sullivan Operettas could tell you what he was.

With the continuing attack on the American cultural under the banner of diversity you have a real challenge.

Places like New York which while never very cohesive as a group are even more fragmented that ever.

Some cultural elements are pushing for the American/English language to be "not required", segments of the immigrants want to retain ethnic identity.

For those benighted souls who dont know they are Americans and what values that means, I would submit, go to some of the Third World Countries and see how they operate.

Its was a cultural wake up the last time I went from American Nogales to Mexican Nogales. Its like a time warp. (Less so as the illegal and legal Mexican immigration into the American West continues.

Whats an American, I can well understand your confusion. We have MEXICAN POLITICANS, 2000 miles from Mexico to woo voters who are in Yakima Washington. If the voters are not in your town, why not go to where they are.

Whats An Englishman... What Would Gilbert And Sullivan have said, Whats an American... What would Benjamin Franklin have said....

Good Luck on Your Quest... If being an American is just a fact of that is where your at, I would suggest you read Everette Hales... Man Without A Country... Or Even Lay Of The Last Minsteral..

Wes Prichard...

Subject: RE: BS: British or European?
From: GUEST,jayohjo in Russia
Date: 03 Jun 01 - 11:40 AM

Have I really missed the point of this thread? I consider myself to be English AND British AND European AND a citizen of the world. That does not mean that these things are interchangeable and the same, it does not mean that there are no differences between me and other world citizens, or Europeans, or British, or even English. It's all just classifications, and it's very easy to fit into lots of classifications all at the same time. That's my take anyway. Jo XX