Subject: RE: Origins: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST Date: 11 Dec 23 - 08:11 AM Not to fuss but look two posts back .. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Felipa Date: 10 Dec 23 - 05:56 PM https://www.rte.ie/player/series/aistear-an-amhr%C3%A1in/10001572-00-0000 The song Take Me Up to Monto and the history of the former red light district of Monto are discussed in episode 4 of an Irish tv series "Aistear an Amhráin". The programmes are narrated in Irish, with interviews in Irish and in English, and English language subtitles. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Thompson Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:16 PM Incidentally "bowler" (rhyming with "growler") is a Dublin word for a dog. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:40 PM RTE's Aistear an Amhráin, episode 4 Went thoroughly into the detail of the song. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:40 PM RTE's Aistear an Amhráin, episode 4 Went thoroughly into the detail of the song. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Thompson Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:16 PM Incidentally "bowler" (rhyming with "growler") is a Dublin word for a dog. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 14 Apr 22 - 02:52 AM One of the great threads, alright. Regards |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Mrrzy Date: 14 Apr 22 - 12:19 AM I am left still wondering, why not Leonard Cohen? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Andrew C Date: 13 Apr 22 - 11:30 PM I agree michaelr - it’s answered all my questions and ones I didn’t even know I had. Plus a nice little trip back to the early aughts. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: michaelr Date: 29 Jan 20 - 01:00 AM Brilliant thread! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST Date: 27 Jan 20 - 09:51 AM I once saw Hodnett drinking in the snug behind the front windows of O'Donoghues of Merrion Row. Tom Munnelly knew him well and once told me that Hoddy used to sit in the snug and wait for the concert-goers to arrive in, when he would quiz them about the gig they had just attended, and write up his review for the Irish Times from their answers. Perhaps this was a regular practice, or Hoddy did it once and Tom was embellishing the story. We'll never know now. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Richard Mellish Date: 23 Feb 14 - 07:43 AM According to Abby's 03 Jul 01 - 06:44 PM posting, "Skin-the-Goat" was the cab driver who refused to testify, and the man who was killed in revenge for turning Queen's Evidence was James Carey. If that is correct, the lines "Oh .. did ya hear o' Skin-the-Goat? O'Donnell got him in the boat" embody a mistake. Also perhaps just worth a mention: that the Linen Hall is also mentioned in the song Get Me Down Me Petticoat. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 23 Feb 14 - 04:57 AM Bill- nothing to do with this thread but the last post on the Grehan Sisters Recordings thread contains a request to you! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 26 Jan 14 - 06:21 PM of course! Langeroo, Bollocks to you! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 26 Jan 14 - 06:09 PM I would only add that in one version Ronnie Drew stops the song to remark that they had to leave the most obscene part out, which is substituted by the two foot stomps, or hand clamps after langeroo before 'to you' . I always thought it must be a two-syllable profanity, but the authorized version above mentions the audience could supply 'Balls to you' which makes sense in that 'langer' is also slang for the male member, so "Langeroo. Balls to you" is good, unless one of yez can think of a suitable two-syllable profanity that would be appropriate. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Jen Pacific Date: 02 Aug 13 - 03:05 AM Abby, do you still have your annotated Word version summing up the collective erudition of this thread? Would love to have a copy. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Fergie Date: 05 Sep 11 - 07:43 PM Was hoping to include George Hodnett's grave in the itinery for the Frank Harte Festival Singing Tour of Glasnevin Cemetery on Sunday 24th Sept. but alas I have discovered that he was cremated. So we'll just have to visit Auld Skin the Goat's grave instead. Fergus |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Desi c Date: 08 May 11 - 10:08 AM I think others have provided all the answers, I can only confirm 'Waxies' as in the song Waxies Dargle, resers to workers in Dublin's Candle making industry which was a big part of industrial Dublin, and 'childer' from my childhood growing up in Kilkenny, is just another w ay of saying children i.e often my Mother would ask me "where's all the other childer you were with?" alternatively 'childern' |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: MartinRyan Date: 08 May 11 - 12:50 AM Refresh |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: MartinRyan Date: 07 May 11 - 07:55 AM Frank McNally in his "Irishman's Diary" column in this morning's Irish Times has an interesting account of the genesis of this song. Click here I've copied it below for permanency. Since Frank has often used Mudcat material in his column, he'll hardly mind! Regards ---------------------------------------------- It's a tribute to the skill of a former Irish Times jazz critic that the ballad Monto , made famous by The Dubliners among others, is widely assumed to be about twice as old as it actually is. The imminent British royal visit may, ironically, encourage the song's revival. Because the most modern of the historical events mentioned in it was another such visit: Queen Victoria's in 1900. Not that its lyrics treat the subject with due decorum, viz: "The Queen she came to call on us, she wanted to see all of us/I'm glad she didn't fall on us, she's eighteen stone". Other characters featured in its verses include "Buckshot" Forster, a chief secretary of Ireland during the 1880s; James "Skin the Goat" Fitzharris, who drove a cab used in the Phoenix Park murders; and Patrick O'Donnell, who in 1883 carried out the revenge assassination of James Carey, a party to the aforementioned murders, before saving his neck (temporarily) by turning queen's evidence. Given all this and the Victorian-era slang, it might be – and often is – mistakenly concluded that the ballad dates from about 1901. In fact, it was written in 1958 as part of a song cycle by musician and critic, George Hodnett. Each song was meant to lampoon one of the stock folk or ballad forms. Thus, Monto purported to have been composed around the turn of the century and, as Hodnett explained, to have been shamelessly tailored for a certain audience. "The verses were constructed to include the pre-possessions that would appeal to the Dublin proletarian taste," he said. "Hence the ingredients of hurler-on-the-fence; support for persons regarded as patriots (Invincibles verse); anti-police attitudes ('the buggers in the depot'); anti-'toff' attitudes (Buckshot Forster); anti-Englishness (same); local allusions; and, of course, smut. This construction probably accounts for the song's success, if that is the word." In some respects, he included too much period detail, as in the verse: "See the Dublin Fusiliers, the dirty ould bamboozeliers/De Wet'll kill the childer, one two three." Few people now – or even in 1958 – know much about De Wet, one of the British army's more formidable enemies during the Boer War, in which the Fusiliers fought. So latter-day singers tend to provide their own phonetic versions, like Frank Harte's: "They went and killed the childer, one two three." Another example is the second – and even ruder – half of the verse about Queen Victoria: "Mister Neill Lord Mayor says she, is this all you got to show to me?/Why no ma'am there's some more to see – Pog mo thon!" This is an anachronism, in fact, because the "Neill" referred to – Lawrence Neill, later O'Neill – did not become mayor until 1917. In any case, most singers now follow the lead of Luke Kelly, who rendered the line "Mister me Lord Mayor says she". Which is probably better than the original anyway. I OWE THIS and most of my knowledge about the song to Dubliner Johnny Byrne, who studied the subject for a history project in NUI Maynooth and who shares his erudition on such themes during his day job as a tour-guide (byrnejohnny@gmail.com). His project included researching the place as well as the song. And Johnny also reminds me that long before its descent into infamy, Monto had been an area of aristocratic pretensions: as witnessed by such addresses as Gloucester Street (now Sean McDermott Street), its one-time northern boundary, which was named for a duke and son of King George III. The Act of Union hastened the neighbourhood's decline. Then a combination of economic hardship and the militarisation of Dublin helped feed the growth of a sex industry, to which "Monto" became central. The area features famously in Ulysses , being the scene where, in a misunderstanding over a woman, Stephen Dedalus is assaulted by an English squaddie. But that it had an international reputation even before Joyce is clear from the 1903 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica , which on the subject of prostitution, noted: "Dublin furnishes an exception to the usual practice in the United Kingdom. In that city police permit open 'houses' confined to one area, but carried on more publicly than even in the south of Europe or Algeria." The notoriety lasted another 20 years or so. Then Frank Duff and his fellow legionnaires of Mary succeeded in closing the trade down. Monto was gone by 1925 and was already a fading memory when the song immortalised it. Hodnett's own life was worthy of a song, at least. The son of an army colonel, he first studied law but was too much in love with music to persist. When not reviewing jazz, he played it: on piano, trumpet, and zither. And he was a fully paid-up Bohemian. Often lacking a fixed abode, he was well known for spending nights in his various places of employment: sleeping rolled up in curtains at the Pike Theatre, or on the floor of The Irish Times . As for his most famous composition, like many offspring, it has long since taken on a life its parent could not have foreseen, at least in the maternity ward. The process was already happening in Hodnett's own lifetime (which ended in 1990). Monto had now reached the point, he once told an interviewer, "when it has become the folk song it originally aimed at satirising". -------------------------------------------------------------------- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: michaelr Date: 26 Feb 11 - 02:15 AM This thread deserves recognition as a Mudcat Classic. One of the best. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,McAlpine Date: 25 Feb 11 - 11:03 PM didn't I always think 'The Furry Glen' was a euphemism for a lady's you-know-what. We named the band after it. Just pub-sessioners mind, but a good laugh. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Gerald Mangan Date: 18 Sep 10 - 10:05 AM The papal visit to the UK this week reminds me of a last verse I wrote for 'Monto' in 1979, when the previous Pope was visiting Ireland:
From Poland came to give us hope, And wash our ears with holy soap And water too. He landed in a chopper, And he nearly came a cropper When he dropped the soap and water In the Irish stew Which they gave him up in Monto, Monto..."etc |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,Tony Patriarche Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:37 AM I recently did an arrangement of "Monto" for 3-part men's chorus which I had hoped would be performed by a choir touring Newfoundland & the Maritimes this past summer. Unfortunately, lack of rehearsal time led to its fall to the cutting room floor. If anyone is interested in a copy of the sheet music, please email me - I would love just to know that it has been performed at least once somewhere, anywhere, Carnegie Hall, Shea Stadium, your favourite local pub.... I mention it here also to give due credit to Bill Kennedy, whose "Fresh Verse" (see 04 Jun 02 in the thread) I "borrowed" (without permission - my apologies, Bill, but thanks for putting in Leonard Cohen!) & revised for my version to add more Canadian Content (I know, I know, not all the bands I named are Canadian, but it had to scan & rhyme. Besides, the Irish Rovers, at least part of them, have retired to my home town, Victoria BC).: Now ya know the Irish Rovers, Figgy Duff, the Clumsy Lovers, Great Big Sea, U2, the Drovers, And Leonard Cohen. The songs go back to fifty-two, When asked if now they're surely through, Ashley yells: "There's more to do, "Pog ma thoin!". Feel free to email me at tony@patriarche.net if you are interested in the arrangement. |
Subject: Lyr Add: MONTO (George Hodnet) From: GUEST Date: 30 Jun 06 - 03:09 PM (Guest Abby)
Very good additional notes, Big Tim. I somehow missed them in May. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Big Tim Date: 12 May 06 - 02:00 PM Of Course that should be GDH. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Big Tim Date: 12 May 06 - 03:01 AM Information on Hodnett was difficult to trace but eventually I found some. Ronnie Drew told me that he thought that the origins of "Monto" lay in Hodnett's antipathy towards a particular species of "folkie": the overly serious, dry-as-dust kind, who interminably analyze and dissect "precious" traditional songs [like me!]; rather than just singing and enjoying them. Monto was then, partly, Hodnett's "two fingers" to that sort of approach. Consequently, he is said to have been reluctant to discuss the song, not wanting to spoil its provenance, preferring to let it make its own way in the world. He would probably have been quite pleased to see it described as "traditional" or "anon", as it often is. If you asked him about it Declan, he'd probably have told you to piss off! George Desmond Hodnett (1918-90) was a native Dubliner, his father coming from a prominent Cork legal family and his mother, Lauré Faschnacht, hailing from Murten, a small town west of Bern in Switzerland. He studied law at Trinity College, or rather, he was supposed to. A born nonconformist who abhorred bourgeois convention, Hodnett soon realised that he had chosen the wrong profession and either left university, or was "sent down", before graduating. Gradually, he found his true milieu: the theatrical and musical life of the city and became a regular among the bohemian literati centred on the Catacombs in Fitzwilliam Place. Eventually he became a fixture at the Pike Theatre, where he was resident pianist. He enjoyed a refreshment with Brendan Behan in both Dublin and London, wrote numerous songs, mostly satirical, with titles such as "I Can't Hug My baby, But Boy Can That Credit Squeeze": a Rock n Roll spoof, and "Hogsville, Idaho"; a send-up of Oklahoma. "Hoddy", as he was affectionately known, was a real Dublin "character": an affable, amiable "eccentric"; but always his own man. Philip Chevron told me that he (GDE!)spent his final years living in a small caravan George Hodnett was also a stout defender of Dublin's Georgian architectural heritage and was injured, hospitalized and arrested during protests against the property developer's bulldozers in Hume Street in 1970. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Declan Date: 11 May 06 - 03:41 PM Garda band would be an anacronism in relation to the Tsar of Roosha who was executed in 1917 (allegedly). The Garda Siochana was formed in the 1920s after the creation of the Irish state. Hodnett would be bound to have known this, but the inclusion of both may well have been deliberate. I've often heard it sung as the Polis band, which could refer to the Dublin Metropolitan Police who I think also had their headquarters in the Phoenix Park. Martin correctly points out that langers is Dublin slang for drunk, but your langer is also slang for the male appendage. I'll leave it up to you to decide which is intended. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Declan Date: 11 May 06 - 02:53 PM George D Hodnett (aka GDH) regularly attended a lot of Folk and traditional gigs that I attended in the late 70s and early 80s and occasionally reviewed them for the Irish Times, although he was better known as a Jazz columnist for that paper as has been mentioned above. To my mind he seemed to be quite an old man at that time, but given that I was in my late teens/early twenties he may not have been that old! I seem to remember his reviews were generally not very favourable, including some gigs that I really enjoyed. I think he was generally more of a jazzer than a folkie. If I'd known he'd written Monto (an old favourite of mine) I'd have made a point of asking him about it. But I hadn't got much of a clue in those days. (not much has changed there then)! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: Big Tim Date: 11 May 06 - 02:55 AM Here's some more on Skin the Goat, obtained from the National Graves Association in Dublin. "Skin the Goat" was the nickname of James Fitzharris (1833-1910), driver of the "growler" used by the killers. Born in Camolin, Co. Wexford, Fitzharris, lived in Lime Street. Being a cab driver, he had access to the comings and goings of Dublin Castle and supplied the assassins with vital information. His nickname is probably derived from an old wake custom, feannadh an phocháin, "skinning the goat": an ancient country ritual in which a piece of skin from a corpse was used as a love charm. In more sophisticated Dublin, the term had come to mean a simple-minded person and it was said of Fitzharris that no one dared call him "Skin the Goat" to his face; though "Skin" was, apparently, quite acceptable! He certainly "stood up for his principles". Despite being offered £10,000, he refused to turn informer. At his first trial, for murder, he was acquitted, but at a second trial was found guilty of conspiracy and sentenced to penal servitude for life. He was released from Maryborough (now Portlaoise) Prison on 23 August 1899. He is buried in a substantial grave in Glasnevin. In 1938, the National Graves Association erected a memorial and in 1968 a bronze plaque was added, giving the names of his five executed co-conspirators. He too is commemorated in song, "James Fitzharris, the Invincible", I never told what I saw there, They might as well ask my old grey mare, Ten thousand pounds would be my fare, If I'd give information. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto / Take me up to Monto From: GUEST,C. Date: 10 May 06 - 03:49 PM There's a bar in Chicago called Poag Mahone's |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Big Tim Date: 01 Jul 04 - 03:35 AM "Waxy" as defined in "Slanguage" (see above): "Use of wax-end for stitching (Dub.) - Cobbler". [quote example of use] "Leather isn't the same now as it was years ago or are the waxies using cardboard to make boots and shoes?" "Waxies Dargle - [nickname c.1890-] Annual gathering at Irishtown Green, near Ringsend." From "Irish Times" 25 March 1936 - "At that time (late 19th C) the Dargle in Wicklow [Bray] was more popular as a holiday resort than it is at present and "Dargle" has passed into popular speech as synonymous with "holiday resort". In Dublin slang of the period a cobbler was known as a "waxy". Not being able to get as far away from town on their days off as the better class Dubliners...they had to be content with a run to Irishtown [beside Ringsend] and Merrion Sands [east Dublin]". Brendan Behan, 1981 ("After the Wake") "Why can't you write about something natural? Like the time we all fell into the water at the Waxie's Dargle"!!!!!!!! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Abby Sale Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:02 PM Good, BigTim. No, it hadn't been covered. With this info, (and more from elsewhere not included above) I think I can fairly well provide an organized, annotated version. I've put together a Word file with both brief explanations as footnotes and fuller ones at the end. I even have an etching of the Linen Hall. Ask me if you want it. But give me a few days to get the other computer back from the vet. Abby |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: John MacKenzie Date: 30 Jun 04 - 05:13 PM My name is Clarence, I live in Leicester Sqaure I wear pink pyjamas. and a rosebud in my hair. To the tune of the Eton boating Song. Giok |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Herga Kitty Date: 30 Jun 04 - 03:31 PM And, re Growler - "My proper name is Clarence" is another song altogether... (although I remember it being sung by Tom Brown, whom Roy Harris aka Burl has recalled on the Boer War song thread). I think it might have been Roy Harris that I first heard singing Monto, though? Kitty |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: John MacKenzie Date: 30 Jun 04 - 01:36 PM and; half a bar was a 10/- [ten shillings for those not familiar with real or pre decimal money] note. Giok |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: John MacKenzie Date: 30 Jun 04 - 01:33 PM A bar was a pound note when I was a children folks. Giok |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: MartinRyan Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:56 AM BigTim You're right on wing & ring! Regards p.s. ... growler. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Big Tim Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:43 AM Sorry, "Slanguage" is by Bernard, not Brendan, Share. He has also written "Naming Names: Who, What, Where in Ireland" - both are excellent books. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Big Tim Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:35 AM What about "wing-o" and "ring-o"? Forgive me if these have already been dealt with, I couldn't see them! "Wing" was Dublin slang for a penny, because the coin had a hen on one side of it. From Joyce's "Finnegan's Wake" - "two bar [shillings] and a wing". (Source: Brendan Share's "Slanguage: a dictionary of Irish slang"). "Ring-o" - could it be short for "Ringsend"? This is where the waxies went for their day out (in addition to Bray). "Growler" defined in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, "old four wheel, four seater horse drawn cabs were called growlers from the surly attitude of their drivers". Proper name was "clarence"- from the Duke of Clarence, later King William the 4th. (Webster's Dictionary). |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Big Tim Date: 30 Jun 04 - 05:11 AM Waxies = cobblers, bootmakers, as well as candlemakers? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: MartinRyan Date: 22 Feb 04 - 05:43 PM "langers" is Dublin slang for drunk. Langeroo MAY refer to that. Regards |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Abby Sale Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:54 PM I haven't seen "Carey" but it makes much more sense since he was one of the involved players. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: GUEST Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:01 PM According to the lyrics in the link given by kat, it should be "Carey told on Skin-the-goat", not "the fairy" as in Abby's lyrics, yes? And does "langeroo" have a meaning? Cheers, Michael |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: MartinRyan Date: 20 Feb 04 - 06:17 PM ..only that the usual phrase is "Mister me Lord Mayor", sez she,"Is that all ye..." Regards |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Abby Sale Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:45 PM On the other hand, while most of what I've posted is only as good as "things that are posted on the Web," I can say definitively that there was no Neill or O'Neill who was Lord Mayor of Dublin in any era appropriate to the song. But what does that imply? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Abby Sale Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:48 PM Wall, Tim, I guess there'll be some more but most of the answers are already given above. Here's something relating to his credibility (in a way): from: http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/10/26/story878345399.asp Terry Fagan is a community outreach worker and lifetime resident of the north inner city. With the North Inner City Folklore Project, he has written a fascinating book,Monto:Madams, Murder and Black Coddle. There's not much he doesn't know about the place and he has some hairraising tales from the glory days when Monto (the Montgomery Street area) was the biggest redlight district in Europe. "That's the building where they used to sneak the king in to the prostitutes," Fagan says airily, pointing out a site near the infamous Magdalen Laundries with, ironically, a white cross painted on the bricks.The king in questionwas playboy Edward VII, so it seems there's more truth in the song by George Hodnett than one might think. Monto was largely closed down in 1925, after the spectacular efforts of the Legion of Mary, and Montgomery Street was renamed Foley Street.Over the years the district's stories have become ever more tragic - stories of men left without work on the docks as progress removed the need for them, of teenage kids dying from heroin. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Big Tim Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:53 AM The Furry Glen is located at the western end of Phoenix Park: between Upper Glen Road and Lower Glen Road, just south of Glen Pond. It's marked on detailed street plans of Dublin, for example: the "Ordnance Survey 1:20,000 Dublin Street Map". End of Thread? I appreciate all the info given...but... still hoping for more on Hodnett, plus date and context of first publication of the song! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Abby Sale Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:37 AM Good additional work there guys. I agree, especially re Furry Glen. Ok. that's it. End of thread. Sing the song, eg, on May 24th for Vickie's birthday (1819). I've got a photo of the Linen Hall, if you want a copy. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Monto From: Cluin Date: 19 Feb 04 - 01:15 AM Is that like "going the growl" aka "growlin' at the badger"? |
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