Non Music: An Idea

Subject: Non Music: An Idea
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 01:37 AM

I know very little about this kind of stuff, and its just an idea, but I have noticed recently that a few guests are coming here with what appears to be, just making trouble and spoiling things.Could we make a rule so that guests are only allowed to start Lyr Request threads? And if people break the rule could we trace them, I know when I got ny internet fitted I signed a contract, and it said somewere that if you post anything offensive or make trouble they can cut you off, I presume everybody elses contract is similar.Like I said its just an idea, I dont know if it would work.john

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 08:40 AM

I would think it would involve a *lot* of work for Max and his elves

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 08:56 AM

John, I appreciate your thoughts and I hope this most recent spat hasn't created a bad taste in your mouth. The 'Cat goes through these spradic upheavals and they are a pain in the ass.........and there is always some fallout from them. They don't last forever and there are some great up periods that come along such as about the time you came aboard. There have been suggestions along those lines before, as well as splitting the forum and a host of other things. Max has generally opted for the lesser control and I agree with that although others may not.

Always post your ideas or send them to Max. Perhaps a time will come when such a thing happens, but I hope not. Most times and most of our Guests are fine folks and have actual reasons to be Guests.......the occasional idiot shouldn't force policy upon the place on issues we can work out for ourselves.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 09:12 AM

I TRY to ignore them. Some are tough though. Like the idiot challenge to Alex. I am sorry I actually used the f word in such a crass manner, but look what the 'Cat dragged in, eh ?

I think the policy of less control and asking that the 'Cats ignore ignorance is a good one. I've even had a lot of fun on some threads where the Mudcatters formed a solid line and clawed the crap out of a troll... the Eminem versus Smarties thread for instance. That was a blast.

Anyway, from what I have seen so far, Max will apply wisdom beyond his years and we will all be the better for it, whatever he decides. I hope he opts for the status quo... if he doesn't, I could get cut off for my occasional spew of nonsense. ( Does occasional equate to fifty percent less one ? )

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 09:39 AM

Ah, another call for banning anon. guests. Good idea. Sure, won't that cure intolerance among men?

Y'know what? This is an Internet discussion forum. That is all this is.

One very sad and pathetic aspect of life in Internet discussion forums is that certain types of people take things said here way too seriously.

This isn't a job. This isn't a family. And for most who come here, it isn't a gathering of friends. It is a place where you should be able to find some decent conversation about a kind of music you are interested in.

But taking it to a level where it raises blood pressure, causes people to charge off in a huff, or virtually scream at strangers, is to take the Internet much too seriously.

Much too seriously.

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 10:20 AM

John,

there are so many nice guests here with all sorts of questions and not just about lyrics, that I think we would loose too much. And if I was a GUEST with an agenda who could stop me posting whatever I want using different computers (in libraries, cafes, universities).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 10:29 AM

Excellent point Wolfgang.

If people here want to see real abuse, they should wander into the Usenet wilds sometime and have a look-see at

alt.usenet.kooks

or

news.admin.censorship

or

news.admin.net-abuse

Perspective, patience, and self-control--necessities if one is to actually enjoy the Internet discussion forums.

Life is much too short, and there is way too much drivel to wade through, for it to be otherwise!

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: radriano
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 02:21 PM

I don't like the idea of banning or restricting guests. Sure, I've been frustrated with Mudcat from time to time but I've been happier since I started following these simple rules:

1. Ignore flamers and trolls - don't post to their threads - these people just want attention or just want to cause trouble and if they are ignored they will soon go away.

2. Ignore stupid threads - don't post to them.

3. Never post a message in anger - think twice before posting anything.

4. Give others the benefit of the doubt even if you don't want to. It's easy to misunderstand what another person means in a post.


There can be room for everyone here. A thread you think is ridiculous can be meaningful or give pleasure to others. Diversity is good for everybody in the long run.

Life can be very frustrating. Just be as fair as you can to others and we'll all get along.

Richard

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 02:38 PM

What made this last spat particularly painful is that for once it wasn't marauders trying to sabotage the place for entertainent, it was open dissension between people who play a valued part in keeping the Mudcat a good place.

GUESTS-who-don't-use-any-label sometimes set out to be a pain, and achieve that ambition - but I think we seem collectively to have found how not to let them wreck things too much.

I don't think restricting GUESTs to Lyric requesting could work anyway - everyone has to use a strange computer sometimes, and that means you are a GUEST on that occasion. Anyway, it'd be easy enough to stir up dissension of all kinds with a thread headed Lyric Request.

catspaw's advice above was right. The basic rule when trouble hits is, let it blow over, and then pick up the pieces. Once again. It's still pretty good, both the music and most of the other stuff.

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 02:43 PM

Thanks for replying everybody, the thing that made me writ this, is that Jon Freeman and Ed Fellow are leaving, and I and I dont know exactly why but it seems a shame when nice people leave.I agree that 99 % of guests are nice people, it is a shame that a few like to come here and insult people and make trouble.I think I agree that the best thing to do is try to ignore them, I am staying here anyway because even though I have'nt been on the internet long (4 months), this is definetley the best site I have seen.john

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:00 PM

Well, now I am curious...

...is john in hull attributing motives for leaving to Ed and Jon which haven't been expressed here?

...ie, that the pollution of the Mudcat deep waters is something only guests are responsible for?

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:30 PM

Guest-No I'm not saying that at all, but you must admit that some Guests have stated insulting threads recently, I really hope this dosen't turn into another argument, so I am not going to say any more in this thread.john

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:41 PM

That's fine john. I'm not looking to start an argument. I just find it so very odd that some regulars here feel the problem is with guests, rather than bad mannered members.

Having only been around for a very brief period, I have read a number of these supposedly awful threads, and its members names I see far outnumbering the guests. Granted there are some people posting in a sort of inflammatory way, but God, nothing that is that serious! Just because its done mockingly doesn't mean they are flaming or trolling.

It seems to me that many here don't have the ability to laugh at themselves when someone pokes fun at them, and THAT is a much bigger problem than what gets said by some trickster guests.

What I've seen guests doing in the last couple of weeks since I've been bobbing in and out simply is not all that hideous.

But it does demonstrate a certain amount of self-righteous humorlessness, IMO.

You have to be thick skinned to enjoy yourself in these forums, just like you have to be thick skinned to enjoy the slagging matches/dissing thang in pubs and bars.

And if you can't laugh at yourself, other people are going to take notice of it, because it makes a person such an easy target for the funny zingers--I don't mean really vicious, mean-spirited stuff. Frankly, I've only seen that invective from members who are responding to what *they* see as illegitimate criticism, when what they are responding to is really nothing more than harmless barbs--slings and arrows that have found their targets all too easily.

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:45 PM

My 2 cents.

Many of the people who sign in as just GUEST converse in a very rude and condesending manner. I believe this is due to the "Look at me !!! I'm invisible!!" syndrome. I think that the entire tone of conversation would become more civil by asking everyone to sign in. If a GUEST really wants a lyric, they won't mind signing in.

Subject: RE: Non Music: An Idea
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:52 PM

Don't you think if I wanted to sign in I'd have done it by now Jack the Sailor?

This "let's out the anon. guest" thing is not innocent or healthy. Its destructive, as many threads where that becomes the modus operandi for attacking the opinions of anon guests becomes all-consuming.

Like I said somewhere else this week, just because the whole world wants to know who Deep Throat is doesn't mean we will.

Or even should.

Deep Throat's identity wasn't the problem. The problem was the Committee to Re-elect the President. The problem was the Watergate burglars, and cover-up artists, which included the Attorney General of the United States, many on the White House staff, and the President himself.