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BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Armen Tanzerian Date: 28 Aug 01 - 09:58 AM This old wrangle. Well, now it's obvious that the people we should be thanking are not the president and his henchmen; it's all the 20- and 30-somethings whose Social Security trust fund the Republicans are busy doling out to the upper-income brackets. Thanks, kids! Best of luck! This from the New York Times puts it pretty succinctly. After the Clinton years, we're all used to hearing the president called a liar. Of course, in this case it's only about the future of our country instead of his personal peccadillos. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Armen Tanzerian Date: 01 Aug 01 - 08:32 AM My citation was straight from the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/ . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: katlaughing Date: 31 Jul 01 - 03:39 PM Armen, would you pelase give a link to where you read that? I'd like to read more about it. There are some people who are giving their returns to charities with which Bush's policies do not agree. Here are a couple of for instances: Taken from an article by Ellen Goodman. She's talking about how the people with the lowest incomes, who would benefit the most, won't receive any refund...Thau is going to donate his own rebate to a program for homeless women. But his group has set up DonateRebate.org, a site that leads to Helping.org, which lists 700,000 nonprofit groups. Many help the people that are hurt the most. Tony Adams, a Houston Web site developer and a political inactivist, goes a step further. The 35-year-old Adams didn't even vote in the last election. But he was so infuriated when Bush reinstituted the global gag rule against international family planning groups, he pledged his rebate to "help counteract Bush's actions." His new Web site, TaxRebatePledge.org, has already attracted more than 300 people who have promised more than $100,000 to groups that oppose the administration on international family planning, the environment and civil rights. Sounds like a good site to visit!
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: LoopySanchez Date: 31 Jul 01 - 03:02 PM I'll check into the spending cuts during the English Depression when I get the chance, Richard. The fact is though, America rarely if ever "cuts" any of its programs. Instead, it "reduces the rate of increase". You also asked for my explanation of the phrase "tough on the causes of crime". I'm not sure I can give you a simple enough explanation if you're confused by such a phrase. Step 1: Release non-violent drug offenders from prison. Step 2: Mandatory sentencing for violent criminals, who will have plenty of free space in the now empty cells provided by step 1. Step 3: Reform education funding so that every school in a state is on a level playing field. Step 4: End the subsidization of illegitimacy. Cruel by a Liberal's standards, perhaps, but it won't take long for people to become responsible for their actions when they realize that producing extra kids will not producing extra money. If I don't have the right to come to your door with a gun to ask for money for someone who spits out a child per year, then neither should the government, since it's rights are derived from the citizens. And the fact is, illegitimacy is the number one link to crime in America. As for whoever it was that had a problem with the statistics I've used in past threads, I invite you to disprove them. Now, if you don't like them because they show things that you'd prefer not to see, then just say so. But don't make fun of me simply for taking a smaller government, individual responsibility-oriented angle on some of my arguments, and for using a few numbers to back them up.
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Armen Tanzerian Date: 31 Jul 01 - 08:55 AM Treasury Is Planning to Borrow to Cover Cost of Tax Rebates By JONATHAN FUERBRINGER The Treasury said yesterday that it would borrow the money needed for the tax rebates now going to taxpayers as part of President Bush's $1.35 billion tax cut. Yeah...thanks, Mr. President.
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: reggie miles Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:20 AM Welp, they sent me sumthin' in the mail sayin' that I don't get squat. I've received money back each year for the last three years. Is that because I don't make enough money to pay any income tax? I honestly don't know how all those numbers on them forms determine who gets what and/or how much of what I make they get. I've managed to get some help fillin out them forms via Turbo Tax. I know I've always felt impoverished. I think I've been livin' below the poverty line too long to realize just how far below it I am. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:18 PM Political ploys are expensive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 01 - 09:30 PM Thirty two to thirty four million of our tax dollars, depending on which accounting you want to believe. Pretty cute, huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: radriano Date: 30 Jul 01 - 07:12 PM The tax rebate is actually not courtesy of George W. but rather the Republican Party. Apparently George was originally against it. But my question is this: How many millions were spent sending out those notices in the mail? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 30 Jul 01 - 07:09 PM There is no way for the govt. to accept money that way. Even General Paton had to accept one dollar per year, as did JFK as salary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 01 - 03:56 PM Forward 'em all to Jim Jeffords. That'll frost Dubya's privates! Or split 'em between Jeffords and McCain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: katlaughing Date: 30 Jul 01 - 03:33 PM It's too late now and not everyone in the US would've agreed, but I think it would have been great if everyone who received one wrote "Refused, return to sender" on the envelope! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Jande Date: 30 Jul 01 - 03:24 PM It seems to me that this is NOT a tax rebate, but is an ADVANCE that you have no recourse but to accept, and therefore it might be the very best thing to put it in the bank in savings account you never use and forget about it until tax time next year! At least the rebate that shit in Ontario gave was a true rebate. ~ Jande |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 29 Jul 01 - 11:15 PM Richard, I dont see that we have a misunderstanding. I commented on the cause of the depression, and you commented on what took us out of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 29 Jul 01 - 11:04 PM Ha! Lucky lad. You should be in Ontario, Canada. We got 1/3 of a week's pay from Harris, in return for his eviscerating public services and ecological safeguards. Just think what we could have gotten if he had turned all the streets into privately owned toll roads, and disbanded the police in favour of hired guns! Maybe 2 weeks pay! I think that's worthwhile don't you? You gotta love the private sector...they know which side of the fence the grass is greenest on. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Greg F. Date: 29 Jul 01 - 09:17 PM Unfortunately, Art, seems a majority (apparently) of the U.S. electorate are quite happy to sell their votes at $300 each- At least the old-time crooked pols of the Boss Tweed type gave you the equivalent couple of weeks pay. Just confirms the overall lowering of standards and cheapening of the electoral process. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Art Thieme Date: 29 Jul 01 - 06:19 PM Thanks for nothing. That's exactly what I've been officially informed by mail that I will be getting out of this. The goddam guy stole the fucking election and now, without a whimper from "the people", has effectively designed the eventual destruction of a meaningful future role for Social Security in the lives of those same people who,like me, paid into it for all the years and count on it now even though I'm only 60. I've been left in the top row of a rickety grandstand that will be demolished around me even while the fireman dole out water via their high-powered hose. There is no way $300.00 would've bought off my indignation, my sorrow for the many, my total alienation from that party and it's occupying regime now barracaded in the oval office. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Jul 01 - 05:51 PM Kendall, I think you wnat to check what I said. I said palliated. This means relieved. Loopy Sanchez. Not many people leave me speechless. You come close. First check what cutting spending did in the name of rectitude in the English depression in the 20s/30s. Then try to explain the expression "tough on the causes of crime". Don't sprain your brain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: M.Ted Date: 29 Jul 01 - 05:49 PM We've come full circle, from Bush to a man who is a boob-- didn't we have a thread once on a song called "The Great Booby"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 29 Jul 01 - 01:16 PM Exactly. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:05 AM You, and most women. There was a cartoon of a woman with rather large mammaries, and she is saying to a little nurd of a man, "These are breasts,... YOU are the boob." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jul 01 - 10:48 PM Like the word "boobs" bugs me... - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 28 Jul 01 - 09:52 PM I told you that I went to a high school that was so sub standard, you could get a letter if you knew what the letter was. Right or wrong, it is contrary to what I was taught, and it bugs me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jul 01 - 09:36 PM mousethief, you have got to be kidding! :) Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jul 01 - 09:10 PM Just to take it a step further in pedantry, I think the past perfect of "get" is "has/have gotten", so they should either say "you got mail", "you have mail", or "you've gotten mail"! Or they could say, "There is presently unopened mail in your mailbox"...but then someone might object to "mailbox", because it sounds like "male"box, which isn't necessarily discriminatory, but could be deemed so by people who can't spell...and so they could say, "You have unopened mail (uh, no wait...that sounds like male, too)...okay, "You have unopened electronic messages in the virtual container that is there for the purpose of holding them, so...Oh, forget it!" Or as Blind DRunk would say, "Ya, like, got mail, eh?" If this be thread drift, then cast me in irons! Hee hee hee... - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: IvanB Date: 28 Jul 01 - 08:07 PM Alex, you're right that 'you've got mail' is good English. However, in the sense it is used on AOL, it is incorrect. 'You have got mail' is the past perfect, not past tense of 'you get mail.' The past tense would be 'you got mail.' The past perfect tense implies an action which has already taken place and is completed. Since AOL uses the statement when your mail is still on their server it is technically incorrect, proper English or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: mousethief Date: 28 Jul 01 - 07:17 PM Kendall, "You've got mail" is perfectly good English. It's a contraction for "You have got mail" which is the past tense of "you get mail" -- and perfectly good English. "have got" is often used in place of "have" to indicate possession of something that has recently come into the owner's possession. Maybe YOU should go back to school? :o) Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jul 01 - 02:47 PM Mike Harris with no clothes on would not be a pleasant sight. Not to me anyway. Even with clothes on he's hard to take. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 28 Jul 01 - 02:24 PM Are you saying that th Emperor has no clothes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jul 01 - 02:22 PM Sorry. I got cut off there....was going to say "PROFITABLE for the privileged few." Must have hit the "submit" button or something... Either that or (gasp!) them guys in the black suits are onto me! :-) Quite seriously, though...a sane family decides what is actually needed for the good of all the family members, and then does it. If a family is motivated primarily by greed for money, rather than by love, then it is capable of any atrocity, and will easily sell its own children into slavery. A society is a large extended family, and the same measure of responsibility should apply to a society. That's socialism. Without it you are back in the Dark Ages, where the rich and well-armed rule the roost, and the peasants survive as long as they are considered useful...if they're lucky enough not to be in the way. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jul 01 - 02:11 PM Hmmmm...well... This is reminiscent of fairly recent events in Ontario, Canada, where Mike Harris's Conservatives have been reigning for a term and a half. Harris campaigned on a similar platform to that of conservatives everywhere...he promised to cut government spending and reduce taxes. He cut, all right. We now have worse pollution and environmental problems than we have ever had before by a long shot. We have many more homeless on the street. We have mental patients on the street who used to be in hospitals (the hospitals were closed down or reduced drastically in staff and facilities). We have a school system that is so embattled and demoralized that many, many teachers are retiring early or changing their profession because they just can't take it. We have apathy, fear, and a growing sense of hopelessness. Just about everything is worse than it used to be...except that the banks are making record profits... Hmmmm.... Oh, and Orillia has a casino and a WalMart now. Whoopee. The profits from those enterprises all go south to their owners in the USA, like the Walton family and the Mafia, to name a couple of major players. Did I mention that everyone got a tax rebate a while back? I think it was $120 or something like that, I don't remember the exact amount. Now, I will not turn away $120, specially when I'm a lot shorter of money than I was a year ago... But I know what it signifies. The emperor has just tossed a small slice of mouldy bread to his public, after stealing their refrigerator and making them mortgage their future. Hail Caesar!!! - LH p.s. A government that is a legitimate government provides health care and education to all on an equal basis with no charge whatsoever. It does what is NEEDED for the common good, not what is PROFITABLE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Naemanson Date: 28 Jul 01 - 12:01 PM I'd like someone to explain to me how cutting funding can help anything? Isn't that like helping someone hanging over a chasm by cutting the rope? Maybe what they should be doing is working out better solutions and then re-evaluating the cost of education. By the way, good teachers will spend the summer taking additional courses, sometimes at their own expense, to keep current on their subject. They do this even though they are underpaid, demoralized, and sh*t on by half the public servants in the various levels of government. They do this because they care and because they know they are making a difference in SOME of the kids they teach. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 28 Jul 01 - 11:33 AM I just received my piddling "refund", and, it is going to British Airways. HEAR ME DUBBYA? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: GUEST,kendall Date: 28 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM toadfrog, I've had that same suspicion for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: GUEST Date: 28 Jul 01 - 11:04 AM 90% of all statistics are made on the spot--don't believe it? ask Loopy Sanches! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: toadfrog Date: 28 Jul 01 - 02:05 AM Let's see. There was an article about 6-8 months ago in the Wall Street Journal about schoolteachers in Silicon Valley. They were making less than receptionists, and were treated like dirt. And I hear "libertarians" on the radio talking about how we spend too much on education, and the educators are doing such a lousy job, we shouldn't pay them so much. What the Republicans are eager to do is preserve the most important part of Reagan's legacy - the budget deficit - so that the government won't spend money on social programs, and uppity working people are scared of a poverty-stricken old age and won't talk back to the boss. I respectfully submit that GWB is a closet Communist. He is dedicating his life to proving that Karl Marx was right, by building a system so gross and disgusting it turns us all into Reds. In any case I see no other explanation for his antics. But then, who am I? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: GUEST,Captain Crunch Date: 27 Jul 01 - 10:53 PM Definition of a redneck... One who has all the answers, and, none of the facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 27 Jul 01 - 10:44 PM The duty of government is to do what must be done if individuals can not do it. We must have a combination of socialism and private enterprise in order to progress. In ancient England, wealthy land owners would build roads with their own money, then they would charge people for using them. They even posted guards with pikes to insure payment. Thus the "Turnpike" was created. I think we can all agree that this system would not work today. No one could afford to build a road for modern use, so, it falls to te government. Is that socialism? How about the military? in ancient times, nobles had their own army! Do you know anyone who could afford such a luxury today? Of course not. Again, it falls to the government. Is that socialism? Yin and Yang my friends, it's the only thing that can work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: artbrooks Date: 27 Jul 01 - 10:36 PM Well, I still haven't heard anyone define "liberal", but I sure don't think it means a person who advocates community rather than individual ownership of the means of production and distribution, which is what the word socialist means. I doubt that many people would claim that teachers AREN'T underpaid in most places, and can you imagine the impact on that situation if our tax money that was just spent for this chickenfeed rebate/refund/advance credit went for making a start on that instead? I used to live in a place (Steilacoom, WA) where state funds (i,e, taxes)went only for "basic education", and elections were held every year for a special tax levy to determine if the music teacher and the librarian would be kept on for a while longer. Funny, but the football coach somehow got paid out of that "basic education" fund. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: GUEST,Fletcher Jowers Date: 27 Jul 01 - 10:08 PM Doug - You are so right. I did forget to put my name on the message I posted as guest. However, you are very wrong if you believe it was done intentionally. My name is Fletcher Jowers. I live in Red Oak, Texas. I am a rednecked, conservative hawk and Vietnam veteran. There's not a liberat in the United States that I would not gladly share my views with. As a matter of fact, one of the best friends I have had in my life was to the left of Castro. If the liberals in this country ever succeed with their socialistic agenda, they're not going to like what they have accomplished. Fletch |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 27 Jul 01 - 09:17 PM First, there IS NO SURPLUS! The whole "surplus" business is smoke and mirrors, "creative accounting", a political football of the first water. SEcond, if there really WERE a surplus, it shouldn't be dissipated as a political popularity-buying scheme like this. If there WERE a real surplus, it should have been used in one of two ways: Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 27 Jul 01 - 07:44 PM I think Loopy has a point. As long as teachers salaries are down in the ditch digger category, you will not attract the best. We have all heard inner city teachers who are unable to speak proper English, using words such as AX instead of ask. do instead of does etc. And, even on national TV, commentators mis pronouncing words such as ARCTIC, and PARTICULARLY. Has anyone not heard AOL's "You've GOT mail? Maybe we should call our american language something else, 'cause it sure as hell AINT English! LOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: katlaughing Date: 27 Jul 01 - 06:41 PM Education reform starts at home with parent(s) who give a damn about their chidlren's education and desire to learn; without that it is an uphill battle that no teacher is paid enough for, yet they willingly try every day. School boards and administrators do need to be held accountable. Just recently our school board threw out a 30 year old, mediated professional agreement which teachers had to fight tooth and nail to get back then. The SB was led by a conservative attorney who was out to break the union's back. He led the charge in an underhanded, legal-loophole way. As a consequence we are losing the best teachers this district has ever had and will never be able to attract good ones in the future. The SB has chosen to dictate with no input from teachers or parents; in fact they refused to go back to the bargaining table when a mediator was brought in. All I can say is thank goodness I do not have kids in school anymore, and I hope the hell it gets straightened out for those who do. As far as I am concerned the whole school board should be dumped out of office. I am the product of a liberally-funded public education, as are my siblings and I am most grateful for it. Teachers need better pay. With morale low and more non-educational duties expected of them, it's no wonder some may seem incompetent. If you were getting low pay for a thankless job and had to listen to every tom, dick, and harry go on about highly-paid teachers, maybe you wouldn't do such a great job, either. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Greg F. Date: 27 Jul 01 - 06:19 PM Loopy, what you don't realize or refuse to understand is that it is possible under the current system in elementary and secondary schools, even with "tenure" and despite your bogey of unions, to remove incompetent teachers with relative ease. It is done quite regularly. Nor will a test put together by bureaucrats necessarily indicate whether a person can teach. You are probably also ignorant of the fact that many teachers are forced by school administrations and at risk of their jobs to teach courses out of their field of certification- why? to save the almighty dollar.. "Teacher testing" is just a smokescreen to avoid dealing with the real problems of the education industry, and it is popular because the vast number of Americans who have never tried to teach or spent time in a classroom believe teaching to be a 'cushy' job no more difficult than babysitting. Now, if you want to talk about testing School Administrators, Curriculum Developers, and School Board Members(for which position there are no requirements at all-not even literacy!)for competency, I'm with you. And no, I'm not a teacher- thank God. I couldn't put up with the miserable working conditions, lousy pay, and disrespect they have to on a daily basis. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: LoopySanchez Date: 27 Jul 01 - 05:23 PM I don't think I even briefly mentioned the testing that GWB did in Texas. When I suggest accountability, the first test I'd want to give would be to the teachers themselves. Weed out those who can't pass a test on the subjects they teach (which would be quite a percentage in some schools), and start bringing a more qualified pool of candidates for teaching positions by offering more competitive wages. THAT is where money will make the biggest difference. Not in buying new books or constructing new buildings, but in having motivated, intelligent people join the teaching ranks because they choose to, and because they can make more money teaching than being an engineer, accountant, etc. If you're a teacher reading this thread, please don't take this post as a universal indictment of the profession: I know that the majority of teachers are qualified to hold their positions, but it only takes a few weak links to erode a student's knowledge base severely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: bobbi Date: 27 Jul 01 - 04:49 PM Income Tax Refund CALL 1-800-829-1040 TO GET THE DATE YOUR 2001 TAX REBATE CHECK WILL BE MAILED, ALL YOU WILL NEED IS YOUR SSN#. When you enter the system, select option #1; then #1 again; then #2; enter SSN; then #1. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: kendall Date: 27 Jul 01 - 04:39 PM Did I hear a brief mention of what Dubbya was pushing for schools? His "testing" thing? What the kids are learning in Texas is how to take tests according to a group of Texas teachers. The comment about rich towns getting the best schools, books etc, is true. Hell, the high school I went to was so sub standard, you could get a letter if you knew what the letter was! We had ONE teacher that I considered above average, and he was an alcoholic! I do believe that I attended some of the poorest schools in the nation, a real handicap, but, I had one thing that helped to balance that, the desire to learn. I've met many people from good schools who stopped learning the day they graduated. They ended up clerking in grocery stores, driving delivery trucks and all sorts of dead end jobs. I dont think that throwing money at this problem will do a damn bit of good. Without motivation, all the money in Greenwich CT. wont help. I was motivated to learn, so, I may not be a genius, but, I can speak in whole sentences, and, I know where Mali is too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: Kim C Date: 27 Jul 01 - 03:31 PM Gosh Loopy, I thought I was the only Libertarian around here. Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: LoopySanchez Date: 27 Jul 01 - 02:43 PM Sorry, I forgot I can't assign blame to any union that teaches our kids, contributes heavily to Democrats, and demands that there be no accountability for their teaching abilities. Let's just keep on doing the same thing, only putting more money into it.
Do you suppose over 20% of public school teachers send their own kids to private schools to do their part to help classroom overcrowding?
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Subject: RE: BS: Tax Rebate - Thanks, Mr. President From: LoopySanchez Date: 27 Jul 01 - 02:35 PM If FedEx and UPS recieved were propped up so they could operate each year with billions in debt (as does the USPS), they could probably do the job for the same price as the USPS. I'll agree that when it comes to everyday mail service the Post office doesn't do that bad of a job, and probably should have excluded them from my earlier rant. Consider that portion of my statement withdrawn. |