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Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor / Jovial Tinker

DigiTrad:
DAVY FAA
THE JOLLY TINKER (4)
THE JOLLY TINKER 2
THE JOLLY TINKER 3
THE TINKER


Related threads:
Lyr Req: The Jolly Tinker (Oscar Brand) (12)
Lyr Add: Another 'Jolly Tinker'? / Merry Wedding (18)
Lyr Req: Noble Lady & Tinker & Brave Old Donnelly (11)


EEMooreTX 01 Aug 01 - 08:35 AM
MMario 01 Aug 01 - 08:56 AM
Hollowfox 01 Aug 01 - 04:36 PM
MMario 01 Aug 01 - 09:14 PM
MMario 02 Aug 01 - 10:46 AM
Charley Noble 02 Aug 01 - 04:33 PM
EEMooreTX 03 Aug 01 - 08:45 AM
MMario 03 Aug 01 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,EEMooreTX 05 Aug 01 - 09:12 AM
toadfrog 05 Aug 01 - 03:56 PM
Charley Noble 06 Aug 01 - 04:13 PM
Charley Noble 06 Aug 01 - 04:54 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Aug 01 - 08:58 PM
EEMooreTX 07 Aug 01 - 12:11 PM
Charley Noble 18 Apr 03 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Lighter 05 Oct 04 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,Lighter 05 Oct 04 - 09:54 PM
Charley Noble 02 Aug 07 - 11:06 AM
curmudgeon 02 Aug 07 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,Lighter 02 Aug 07 - 07:24 PM
Charley Noble 02 Aug 07 - 08:52 PM
Bat Goddess 29 Jul 15 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,SSBN 619 Gold Andrew Jackson 26 Aug 17 - 04:16 PM
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Subject: Duchess and the Sailor
From: EEMooreTX
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 08:35 AM

I'm looking for the lyrics to a song that starts:

Once there was a Duchess A'going to a ball Until she saw a sailor Making water on the wall

Thanks much.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: MMario
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 08:56 AM

I really hope someone finds this. Mudcat was reccomended to a person for finding this song by several people. Our honer is at stake!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: Hollowfox
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 04:36 PM

I heard it years ago as Duchess and the Student. I have it on reel-to-reel from a late night sing somewhere. I'll see if I ever transcribed it, but it may take a while.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: MMario
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 09:14 PM

refreshing - just in case someone can save Hollowfox the trouble...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: MMario
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 10:46 AM

The Duchess and the Student is an Oscar Brand song...but I still can't find lyrics...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 04:33 PM

This sounds like a really old and vile song known variously as "The Jolly Tinker" with a grand chorus, as sung by old family friend Dennis Puliston, which ran:

With his bloody great kidney whipper,
His bloody great kidney wee,
And forty yards of foreskin
Hanging down below his knee!

That's all I can remember for now but I'll look it up and post it if anyone is still interested.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: EEMooreTX
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 08:45 AM

Nope - different song, but I'd like to see the lyrics for "Jolly Tinker" as well. I perform in a bawdy wench duo, and we're always on the lookout for more material.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: MMario
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 09:56 AM

Have you searched the DT using "@bawdy"? (type it into the search box above - minus the qoutes - should bring up whole lists of stuff..)

and some of the stuff that doesn't have midi's on-site we do have the music for; so don't be afraid to ask.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: GUEST,EEMooreTX
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 09:12 AM

Many times...my problem is that it seems that every time I find one that I like, someone else in the area is already performing it. No one around here has heard of "The Duchess and the Sailor", so I'm anxiously searching for it.

I've been using DT for years, and you have no idea how much I appreciate you guys being here. You've saved me hours and hours of time. Thank you!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: toadfrog
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 03:56 PM

Let's see, a google search for "making water on the wall" brings up fascinating sites, which someone may wish to investigate further, HERE and HERE The phrase has been located in the sermons of Cotton Mather, as HEREand in the works of Francis Rabelais. Some may want to follow this upp. Now, I'll try for the Duchess!


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE JOLLY TINKER
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 04:13 PM

Sigh! Looks to me like we've talking about the same family of songs. "The Jolly Tinker" begins (WARNING TO THE FAINT OF HEART):

He mounted up his charger
And away he did ride
With his penis over his shoulder,
His bullocks by his side. (CHO)

With his bloody great kidney whipper,
His bloody great kidney wee,
And forty yards of foreskin
Hanging down below his knee!

A duchss sat by her window,
In a tower tall,
She saw the highland tinker
As he pissed against the wall.(CHO)

The Duchess wrote a letter,
And in it she did say,
I'd rather be fXXXed by a tinker
Than my husband any day.(CHO)

The tinker got the letter,
He went to ply his trade,
He double bored the duchess
And triple bored her maid. (CHO)

He fXXXed them in the kitchen,
He fXXXed them in the hall;
Then he buggered the butler,
The diriest trick of all. (CHO)

He fXXXed them in the parlor,
Now what do you think of that?
Then he went into the stable
And he fXXXed the stable cat.(CHO)

Alas, old Dennis has gone to that land beyond, but wherever that is I'd like to think he's still keeping folks up all night with his songs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 04:54 PM

The other version of this I've run across is from Oscar Brand in his book of Party Songs called "The Jolly Tinker" which is about a tinker and a farmer's daughter. The song structure is more repetitious and may be more similar to your Sailor and Duchess:

The farmer's daughter was a-coming from the hall,
The farmer's daughter was a-coming from the hall,
And there she saw the tinker making water on the wall,
With his long john tiddly whacker,
Over-grown kidney cracker,
Looking for a scrimmage
With a whang, whang, whang.

I'd still like to see some verses to the sailor version.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 08:58 PM

The basic story goes back a long way.  You might also like to look at a few broadside examples at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

The jovial tinker; or, The willing couple  Printed c.1670 for Eliz. Andrews in St: Bartholomews Court in Smithfield.

Room for a jovial tinker, old brass to mend  Printed between 1674 and 1679 for F. Coles, T. Vere, J. Wright, and J. Clarke (London).

The travelling tinker  Printed between 1780 and 1830 by R. Walker of Norwich.

These are all large images.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: EEMooreTX
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 12:11 PM

Thanks to all of you! Apparently it's definitely the version of "The Jolly Tinker" that Charley Posted. I appreciate your help, folks, and if any of you have any other suggestions for songs that we could add to our repretoire, you'll find our up-to-date list at www.tudortarts.com.


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Subject: Lyr Add: TIM THE TINKER
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:58 AM

Hmmm. I recently was provided an ancient manuscript (1956) of bawdy songs collected by Dennis Puleston which has an earlier version of the song I posted above, which was what Dennis sang some years later:

TIM THE TINKER

(#54 from the Book of Bawdy Ballads manuscript edited by Dennis Puleston, 1956)

The Lady of the Manor,
Was dressing for the Ball,
When she saw the Highland Tinker
Pissing up against the wall.

Chorus:

With his bloody great kidney whipper,
And his balls the size of three,
And a yard and a half of foreskin,
Hanging down below his knee!

The Lady wrote a letter,
And in it she did say,
She'd rather be fucked by a tinker
Than his Lordship any day. (CHO)

The Tinker got the letter,
And when it he did read,
His balls began to fester,
And his prick began to bleed. (CHO)

He mounted on his donkey,
And to her place did ride,
With his prick over his shoulder,
And his balls strapped to his side. (CHO)

He fucked them in the parlour,
He fucked them in the hall,
The butler cried "Gawd sive us,
For he wants to fuck us all!" (CHO)

He fucked the groom in the stable,
And the Duchess in her pew,
But then he fucked the butler,
And the butler's pet mole too! (CHO)

Some say the Tinker's gone now,
Gone fucking down to hell,
All set to fuck the Devil
And we hope he does it well. (CHO)

Of course, my brother and I misheard the chorus of this song, to the amusement of my parents, as we'd sing "With his bloody great windshield whipper..."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 09:09 PM


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE JOVIALL TINKER
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 09:54 PM

Here is a text from 1656 which is a little closer to the modern form:

THE JOVIALL TINKER

There was a Lady in this Land,
She lov'd a Gentleman,
She could not tell what excuse to make
To have him now and then.

But writ a Letter to him,
And seal'd it with her hand,
Bid him become a Tinker,
To clout both pot and pan.

And when he had the Letter,
Full well he could it read,
His Brass and his Budget
Then strait did he provide.

His Hammer and his Pinsors,
And well they did agree,
With a long Club on his back.
And orderly came he.

And when he came to th'Ladies gates
He knocked most hastily,
Then who is there, the Porter sayes,
That knocks thus ruggedly?

I am a jovial Tinker,
And I work for gold and fee,
If you have any broken brasse,
Bring it here unto me.

I am the joviall'st tinker
Betwixt this town and London,
At mending of a pot or pan,
Or clouting of a Caldron.

My Brass is in my Budget,
And my Rivets under my Apron,
I pray you tell her Ladyship
I am come to clout her Caldron.

Madam yon is the strongest tinker
Betwixt this town and London,
He prayes me tell your Ladyship
He is come to clout your Caldron.

O go thy wayes good Porter,
And let the tinker in,
For I have work for him to do,
And many he may gain.

And when he came into the hall,
Upon him she did wink,
Sayes take him into the buttery,
And make the knave to drink.

Such meat as we do eat, she sayes,
And such drink as I use,
For it is not any Tinkers guise
Good liquor to refuse.

She took the Tinker by the hand,
Her work for him to show,
And down fast by the Caldron side
Laid he the Lady low.

And gave to her a hammer
All in her hand to knock--
That her own wedded Lord might think
The Tinker was at work.

She put her hand into her purse,
And pluckt out five good Mark,
Said, take thee this good Tinker,
And for thy good days work.

She took the Tinker by the hand,
Her wedded Lord to show,
Sayes, here is the joviall'st tinker
That ever I did know.

This is the joviall'st tinker,
And the dearest of his work,
For he'll not drive a nail to th' head
But he must have a Mark.

If you had been so wise Madam,
As I had thought you had bin,
Before you had set him on work
You would have agreed with him.

Pray hold your peace, good wedded Lord,
Think not of his work too dear,
For if you could do it but half so well.
'Twould save forty Mark a year.

And be thou not too long tinker,
And look not for my sending,
For if thou stay too long away
My Caldron will want mending.


"Wits Merriment: Or, Lusty Drollery." London, 1656. Pp. 108-11. This is in the classic ballad meter, with some familiar ballad phrases. In current versions, the porter has been replaced by a more modern "butler." This butler - along with the various other servants - is then attacked by the "tinker", in a less subtle development than the disguised gentlman's introduction and favorable comparison to the Lady's unsuspecting and cuckolded "wedded Lord."


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Subject: Lyr Add: BLOODY GREAT KIDNEY WIPER (from Puleston)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 11:06 AM

I've recently did a transcript of how Dennis Puleston sang this song at one of his bawdy song parties in the 1950's. It's more accurate than what I posted above and different than what I found in the manuscript. Obviously the folk process was still very much at work:

As sung by Dennis Puleston in late 1950's and recorded on cassette

Bloody Great Kidney Wiper

The Duchess was a-dressing,
A-dressing for a ball,
When she spied a bloody great tinker
Pissing up against the wall –

Chorus:

With his bloody great kidney wiper,
Yes, bloody great kidney-wee,
And forty yards of foreskin
Hanging down below his knee!


The Duchess wrote a letter
And in it she did say:
"I'd rather be fucked by a tinker
Than my husband any day." (CHO)

And when he got that letter
And in it he did read,
His balls began to fester
And his prick began to bleed. (CHO)

He mounted on his charger
And on it he did ride,
With his penis over his shoulder
And his bollocks by his side. (CHO)

He rode into the parlor;
He rode into the hall;
"God bless!" cried the housemaid,
"He has come to fuck us all!" (CHO)

He fucked them in the kitchen;
He fucked them in the hall,
And then he buggered the butler,
The dirtiest trick of all. (CHO)

He fucked them on the staircase;
He fucked them on the mat;
He went into the stable,
And he fucked the stable cat. (CHO)

He fucked them on the staircase;
He fucked them on the floor;
He gave them such a fucking
As they never had before. (CHO)

And now he's dead and buried;
They say he'll go to hell;
They say he'll fuck the Devil,
But, by God, he'll fuck him well! (CHO)

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor / Jovial Tinke
From: curmudgeon
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 02:42 PM

I've been singing "The Student and the Duchess" for manys the year. The version I do came from Oscar Brand who got it from John Runge who allowed that it was made up at Oxford by student(s) who were envious of the tinker's reputation - Tom


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor / Jovial Tinker
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 07:24 PM

Charley, do you think that Puleston's manuscript may just be a copy of "Count Vicarion's" and that his own texts, like the one you posted above, were rather different?

Seems like you should start transcribing more of those old tapes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor / Jovial Tinker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 08:52 PM

Lighter-

The tapes are really fun to listen to. It's seldom that one hears the mileu that these songs were sung in, but at times it's difficult to tease out the actual lyrics from the raucus laughter, poor mic placement, and exuberant instrumentation.

Dennis does vary from the Count Vicarion manuscript but whether that is because he learned the songs when he was growing up in England, or while sailing around the world in the 1930's, or just did some folk-processing of the lyrics is an open question.

My long term plan is to try some editing of the tape, in an attempt to balance more of the singing.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE STUDENT AND THE DUCHESS (Tom Hall)
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 29 Jul 15 - 04:50 PM

I came across this thread while going over the list I'd made before Tom died of the sources for Curmudgeon's (Tom Hall's) songs. I'm sure he got this one from Oscar Brand. Tom always introduced the song by saying the students at Oxford University were jealous of the lascivious reputation that tinkers' had, so wrote the song to advertise their own erotic ability.

Here it is --

THE STUDENT AND THE DUCHESS

The duchess was a dressing, dressing for the ball
And then she saw the student making water on the wall
With his bloody big dingle dangle swinging proud and free
Never would he stop 'til it was over.
 Chorus:        Hanging down, swinging free
                Never would he stop 'til it was over.

The duchess wrote a letter. In it she did say,
"I'd rather be had by a student than my husband any day.
With your bloody big dingle dangle swinging proud and free."
Never would he stop til it was over.

The student got the letter. He began to shake.
His pants begin to bulge a bit and his bollocks begin to ache
And his bloody big dingle dangle swinging proud and free
Never would he stop 'til it was over.

Well he rode up to the castle. Right up to the hall.
"Lord save us!" cried the chamber maids, "Has he come to do us all?"
And his bloody big dingle dangle kept swinging proud and free
Never would he stop 'til it was over.

Well first he did the duchess, then the maidens, too.
And then he did the butler, what a dirty thing to do.
And his bloody big dingle dangle kept swinging proud and free
Never would he stop 'til it was over.

Well the people came a-running, the rich folk and the poor.
And he mounted them in order gaudeamus igatur.
And his bloody big dingle dangle kept swinging proud and free
Never would he stop 'til it was over.

Well they say he's died and gone below. They say he's down in hell.
But they say he's up the devil and they say he's up him well.
And his bloody big dingle dangle is swinging proud and free
Never would he stop 'til it was over.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Duchess and the Sailor / Jovial Tinker
From: GUEST,SSBN 619 Gold Andrew Jackson
Date: 26 Aug 17 - 04:16 PM

I learned this from a classmate at Sub school in Va. in the mid seventies.
He liked to carve knives, swords and shields out of coffee stir sticks and hide them in his beard.

Duchess and the Sailor

Once there was a Duchess a riddin to the ball.
when she spied a sailor making water on the wall.

-with his bloodywell dingo dango swinging proud and free
and never would he stop till it was ooover-

He rode up to the castle, he rode up to the wall.
My God cried the Duchess he's come to fuck us all.

-with his bloodywell dingo dango swinging proud and free
and never would he stop till it was ooover-

First he fucked the Dutchess, he fucked thier maidens too
and then he fucked the butler...what a dirty thing to do!

-with his bloodywell dingo dango swinging proud and free
and never would he stop till it was ooover-

Some say he went heaven, some say he went hell, some say
he fucked the Devil and did it very well.

-with his bloodywell dingo dango swinging proud and free
and never would he stop till it was over-


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