Posting as merely 'GUEST'

Subject: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:22 PM

Considering the vast array of differing posts all coming from "GUEST", I would suppose it safe to assume that there is more than one person doing so?

In a thread recently, one "GUEST" felt he needed to say that he was not the same "GUEST" that had evidentally said something the first one would not want his reputation attached to. Now we have still another "GUEST" asking about porn. Yeesh. I dunno about any of you, but I personally would not want my posts to be interperted through the taint of anyone elses reputation (only my own taint, thanks! ;D)

Which brings me to my question. If all you have to do is choose a "handle", and never reveal personal information, why post as merely "GUEST" at all? Your anonymity is protected when you choose a handle, but you need not worry about being confused with anyone else.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:25 PM

Thank you, I don't really mind though

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:33 PM

Celtic Soul, I believe some of them enjoy trying to confuse people. I won't take any responsibility for knowing which guest is which. If they want to be lumped in with all the other no-name guests, they can. I get confused enough about the stuff that IS there and don't feel a need to deal with the stuff that isn't.

Other folks just forget to type a name in.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:42 PM

Haven't we been down this road before?

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:44 PM

Coming under such a cloud of disparate, generalized anonymity, IMHO, disenfranchises the poster from any rights to serious discussion, and any such he nets is purely from goodwill. The reason being that without even so much as a consistent pseudonum tacked on tot he Guest label, there is no certainty to whom one is communicating.

At least the Conscienceof the Mudcat hoorrorshow gave us an identity and a senseof constant, if noisome, presence in his/their posts.

A

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 12:51 PM

Max can always find out ISP's for Guests; that's why it's silly and rather stupid for a member to post as Guest in order to flame.........Max knows.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Gary T
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:12 PM

It's true that Max may know, but virtually none of the rest of us do.

The "GUEST" postings can be divided into the innocent: nonmember overlooked the name slot, member away from his regular PC is not in the habit of filling in name, etc.; and the suspect: someone intentionally leaves the name slot blank to have anonymity on the forum (even if not to Max) and to be able to disclaim any other "GUEST" posts. Not all intentional anonymity is malicious or for unwholesome reasons, but apparently a fair portion of it is. Some postings are fairly easy to classify as innocent or suspect, others are not so obviously one or the other. And I suspect that some "GUESTS" don't give a rat's butt and couldn't be bothered to type the extra characters.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:21 PM

The whole damn subject is completely worn out. Guests are fine....legit guests that is. The Flamer Guest is a pian in the ass but these continuing drawn out conversations get nowhere. Is there ANYTHING that hasn't already been said about the differences and the Guest topic in general? Ignore or piss on the flames and respond to the legits........and everyone knows the difference. Take it post by post but let's not flay this dead horse too much longer huh?

just a thought........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:32 PM

There! It moved!

It's stone dead!

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:38 PM

Catspaw and Alex,

You are overlooking the obvious beauty of this coming around again.

Instead of having to wait for a Lyric/Forum search to find the last time this came up, you only need to click the "3 days" selection and refresh (if it isn't still on the first page).....

Ahhhh....what a time saver.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: MMario
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:45 PM

In defense - CelticSoul posts as a (named)guest - so this is probably very irratating to him/her, and as a relative newcomer (tho it seems like he/she's been around quite a while - probably because of the intelligent posts recieved under the name) probably doesn't just how much we have thrashed this out (in futile profusion) before. and d*mned if I'm gonna refresh any of THOSE threads...

apologies CelticSoul if I've missed a gender identification somewhere...

MMario

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:56 PM

I just have a vision of these 'un-named' guests being at a party in 3-D and having someone walk in with a framed curtain around them and a disguised voice and expect everyone to engage them in normal conversation......and even that is not a good metaphor, as you'd at least know WHAT you were talking to.

*sigh*...one can only hazard a guess at the mindset that requires every set of words to be treated as an entity with no origin....3,000,000 years of evolution lead ME to feel awkward about talking to a will-o-the-wisp....

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: MMario
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:04 PM

hell, Bill - will o the wisps at least give you a glow in the darkness towards which to address your remarks. (ha! managed to not end with the preposition! awkward tho')

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: SharonA
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:12 PM

catspaw: If the illegit GUEST has a pian(o) in his ass, I guess it WOULD be flaming...

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:00 PM

I am a guest by virtue of abusing my internet priviledges at work.

In a recent somewhat contentious thread I started I took some serious heat from a "Guest". And I must say I was more miffed that a person could assault my talent from within the shroud of anonimity while I am always out front with my own name. I don't mind criticism and I wanted a debate or I'd never have started that now hopefully forgoten and in this thread, an unnamed topic of discussion.

If I'm gonna do something foolish I want the world to know it was done by an expert.

Don

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:01 PM

Well Sharon, if (s)he, the aforementioned illegit Guest, had such a condition with the flaming object and all, and I had a feather up my ass, we'd both be tickled to death!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:20 PM

SharonA, that was the image I got too. And practically flailing about. Or more likely it would be the guest who was flailing. Then Spaw, you added your own image- LOL

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:29 PM

For some of the newbies, it might be good to note the origin of the GUEST prefix. At one time, someone logged on, using my name; what they posted looked exactly as though it had been done by me, totally legitimate looking. It was some nasty flaming stuff.

To make sure no one could sign on, again, with such a legitimate-looking member name, Max created the Guest appellation, so we'd know that the poster could possibly NOT be the member named after "Guest." Hope that makes some sense.

kat

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 05:00 PM

I post as a GUEST through choice.

My current IP Address is: 172.152.235.88

My ISP is AOL

The majority of my posts are of the 'click here' variety in answer to lyric requests.

I like answering these but I don't want to register as a mudcat member

I don't give a flying fuck if other 'nasty' people also use the 'GUEST' appellation. That's up to them

Meanwhile, I'll continue to answer what I can, remain anonymous, and shake my head with bemusement at how you lot get your knickers in a twist over nothing

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 05:11 PM

What amuses me is self-righteous people who post anonymously and abuse the members for taking other people's abuse seriously. If we didn't take any abuse seriously, we wouldn't take their abuse seriously either, and the whole point of their post would be lost.

Which is perhaps not such a bad thing, now that I think of it.

Alex

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: John Routledge
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 05:26 PM

Stating what is not obvious - "The answer as ever lies lies in our own hands". John

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousetheif (imposter)
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 05:29 PM

mind you, I'm a total tosser

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 06:24 PM

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Alex

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 06:53 PM

Mmario.

Yup, you would be right on all but one count. The "he" part! :D

But all in all, you hit the nail on the head. I had no idea this had been thrashed to death. And I don't think I am up to the task of going and re-reading every thread ever written so that I am up to snuff on what is and what isn't old news. Sorry, guys. You're just gonna have to be patient with me! ;D

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 07:00 PM

"I post as a GUEST through choice."

right....as do several others...we think...maybe..sort of...who can tell...might be....

Would it KILL you to be guest:Rumplestiltskin" ...or guest:Joe from Kokomo? no identification, no cookie, no locale....just an entity with a name like guest: Don Meixner above...

yeah, I suppose it would..

(reminds me sorta of folks who adamantly refuse to use daylight savings time....they just don't want to..)

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 04:28 AM

No it wouldn't KILL me

But to use your daylight saving time analogy...I just don't want to...

Regards

GUEST

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 09:57 AM

Well thanks whatthehellever Guest! Now, thanks to your confirmation of Bill's analogy, I think we can all see your line of reasoning. It's so good we can have these little talks and keep the lines of communication open. It was difficult for some to understand before, but now it's clear.

So, in other words, if your ass was packed full of white-hot charcoal briquets, it would simply be a matter of choice as opposed to a forced hot-lead enema administered by someone else? Both result in a flaming asshole of course, but it's all in the method. Yep.....I think I understand!!!

Thanks again for sharing.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 10:29 AM

*giggle*....trust 'spaw to summarize things

I'm in a MUCH better mood today...went to a sing last night and heard many good songs..."Star of the County Down" on guitar & harp, "Sheath & Knife"...some country songs...even the classic "Transfusion" by Nervous Norvus done on tenor banjo with whistle & kazoo...we ARE an eclectic bunch!...(I sang Ewan MacColl's "The Terror Time" and a silly thing called "It Mighta Been Worse" from the Perry County Music Makers")

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From:
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 10:40 AM

Why don't we just plain IGNORE all posts which have the sender as GUEST with no other designation! Isn't that the simplest? The ones who post to bug people only do it because WE respond. If we DON'T, they'll give up sooner or later and we'll be happier.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 10:46 AM

...something about human nature, I'm told...like touching "wet paint" signs and yelling at the TV programs....

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 11:06 AM

Why don't we all agree to give GUEST our own, consistent appellation, such as GUEST,Whateverthehell, no matter what Guest has posted? That way, we all know whom we are talking about, regardless. They all get lumped into one, which seems fitting for gutless wonders.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 02:32 PM

funny, I had a similar thought about giving them a name..only, I thought maybe call 'em "guest:turnip" ...something bland & stupid... I really, really, really wish I could simply follow sane advice and simply never respond, so they are just shouting into the wind....but...*shrug*

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: MMario
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 08:28 AM

Celtic - I meant no offense to you - you couldn't be expected to know all the past history of this forum. I was just offering a possible explanation as to why you would bring up the subject.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: pavane
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 09:03 AM

My thoughts:

For good reasons, police and other organisations usually ignore anonymous tip-offs, complaints etc.

We have seen a number of valid reasons for wishing to remain anonymous. Fear of intimidation, persecution, illicit use of the web etc. There HAVE, however, been useful and informative postings from anonymous guests.

It is now not possible for a member to impersonate another member for whatever reason.

The only problem seems to be the confusion caused when a GUEST posts derogatory or inflammatory remarks - hardly what one expects of a real guest, of course.

If other guests are upset at being falsely identified with the flamer, then the remedy is in their own hands.

I suggest therefore that the only sensible course of action is as suggested by George Seto above - do not reply to them. But if they have posted useful information, use it.

Also, the concept of freedom of speech is intended to allow different opinions to be aired. The old saying goes 'I don't like what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it'. I know this has been restricted by all kinds of laws, but the concept is surely one which we need to strive for. The alternative is censorship, and we all know where THAT leads.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From:
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 10:56 AM

I think I came here first as simply "guest", unaware of any kind of ettiquette(?) on the web. A person new to the Mudcat can also be a person new to the web. I received a warm welcoming response to a question about a particular line in a song. Given that I was new to this whole electronic community thingy I think I would have felt most unwelcome if my lack of undersatnding of how things are done brought a negative response. I'd say it's a good idea to welcome guests who act like guests, and ignore (or openly play with) those that do not (like the GUEST bloke above).

Paul

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: LR Mole
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 11:21 AM

Just looked it up. Interestin' word, "guest": goes all the way back to the fourteenth-fifteenth centuries and can have meant anything from "stranger" to "enemy". Perhaps guests should be assigned code-style names, like "cookie jar" or "yardstick". Or not.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,fiddlesticks
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 11:32 AM

Or maybe "not supposed to be using work computer for music fun"!

Fiddlesticks (always a friendly guest)

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Amos
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 11:44 AM

Max could stick a little counter into the system which reads the ISP number so that each GUEST gets a consistent number -- anyone GUESTING from xxx.yyy.zzz.126 might always be GUEST99. Cute trick if he could make it work. That would carbe out half the bs that flies around on theis subject as they would no longer all look exactly alike. Not a trivial job because you'd have to maintain a table of past ISP to integer maps. 3 digits 000 to 999 would do it, I reckon.

A

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 12:45 PM

Max could also set it up so you couldn't post your reply unless the "From" box had something in it, which would be simpler.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,merely 'GUEST'
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 12:50 PM

I see no reason why I should not be allowed to post under this psuedonym. What harm does it do?

merely 'GUEST'

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 01:30 PM

IMO, this has nothing to do with how guests behave, and everything to do with the fact that some people will always want to play forum den mother/net cop.

Also, some people are totally unaware of the ways they project their fear and paranoia of strangers/guests on anon. guests here, regardless of how a guest behaves. Some people seem especially prone to this sort of unease about strangers, and here in Mudcat, it seems to be a problem more for those who use the forum as a substitute for real life relationships, and/or as a therapy support group.

I say to hell with those anti-anon begrudgers playing Mudcat net cops. Post however you feel comfortable posting. A quality, informative post is always worthwhile, regardless of the source. Ignore the fear and paranoia of the few, and contribute to the music discussions. Music is, after all, the point here...

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: MMario
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 01:36 PM

GUEST - no one has EVER complained about informative ond/or helpful posts from anyone regardless of whether or not that was a member, a guest with a standard psuedonym, or an anonymous guest. the furor starts when the anonymous guests start in with hurtful and or deliberatly ruckus causing posts.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 01:43 PM

Merely Guest, the harm it does is manifold and if your imagination can't stretch far enough to encompass what has been said here about it, then you're part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Pavane said:

There HAVE, however, been useful and informative postings from anonymous guests.

Yes, and flowers grow in a dungheap, too. That doesn't mean I'm going to be building one in my front yard.

Alex

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:10 PM

There's nothing wrong with wanting to know who you are talking with. One does wonder why someone insists on remaining anonymous.

Scenario: The Caribbean, back in the days of the Spanish Main.
Enter: English merchant ship, sailing merrily along, crew drinking rum and singing chanteys. Suddenly the lookout spots a sail on the horizon, but can't see an ensign yet. Ship goes on yellow alert (anachronistic Star Trek jargon). Then, strange ship comes close enough to identify.

English flag -- Stand down alert. Friendly ship. Everything's okay.
French flag -- France has been real iffy lately, don't know what they'll do. Maintain yellow alert.
Spanish flag -- Definitely hostile. Roll out the guns! Battle stations!
Jolly Roger -- Definitely hostile. Roll out the guns! Battle stations!
Unfamiliar flag, can't identify -- Maintain yellow alert, see what they do.
No Flag at All -- Now that's really suspicious! Could be anything! Roll out the guns! Battle stations! But wait and see what they do. But if they fire on us, blow the bugger out of the water!!

. But then, a wise captain might chose to pile on all sail and outrun it. Other than noting its existence and taking appropriate action, he just ignores it.

Don (just finished reading Captain Blood again) Firth

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:23 PM

Alex,

I've got a dung heap in my front yard - I win prizes for my flowers...

A very bad analogy

Don Firth,

We're not exactly in a war here, either! Are we?

I will continue posting whatever I can usefully as a guest. Lots of people will get answers they want, and will probably thank me. If you choose to ignore me, well up to you.

Take care

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:31 PM

I think, guests, the best thing to do is to ignore the comments of the obnoxious members, since they are only a small proportion of what is otherwise a wonderful, knowledgeable, warm-hearted and informative 'extended family'

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:33 PM

I don't give a fig if someone types a bit of information or a question as a guest. The point where it becomes confusing is in discussions, when continuity exists. The guests' posts become disjointed and may not make sense - especially when they reference a previous post of theirs.

If they don't mind being thrown all together in the big guest collective, I guess we could think of them as a hive or something, and respond to the voice from the hive. Unfortunately, the voice is sometimes trying to stir things up, so everyone in the hive is going to get blamed. If someone's going to give up all identification as an individual, they'd better be prepared to not be seen as one.

<irony>Maybe Max could assign Borg numbers to them or something: 1 of 4, 3 of 7...</irony>

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:34 PM

A very bad analogy

Stinks, don't it?

Alex

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:34 PM

Well, GUEST, that's the question. Sometimes I can't tell.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 02:40 PM

Well said, GUEST, I totally agree.

Jeri,

I, for one, don't mind being "thrown all together in the big guest collective" I'll answer music queries when I can, and then go home.

Let's face it, the whole place is fairly anonymous - do you really know who 'Long Fat Freddie' is?

Quite why he/she should have greater validity than me... we've been over this already....

Take care