Help: Please sign petition - WTO drug patent rules

Subject: Please sign this petition
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 12:27 PM

Oxfam brought this to my attention yesterday.... blickie.It would be great if you could find it in you to sign as well.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 01:00 PM

I signed it, Morticia, and sent it on to five friends. You might get a better response with a title that more clearly defines the subject matter. Maybe an elf can help. Thanks for the heads-up.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 01:46 PM

Is the title better now? Thanks for the heads-up, Morty. I signed the petition.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 02:45 PM

Thank you for fixing it Joe, and many thanks to you and Sins for signing.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:20 PM

Thanks for the info, Morteedarlin'. I've signed it as well and will pass it on.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Mountjoy
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:26 PM

Certainly sounds like something I would sign...that is if it loosens government yokes.But what is it? I'm just a dumb american.Haven't been out-country ib a few,possibly quite a few,(10) years? WTO?

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: mike putt
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM

signed and forwarded to everyone in my mailbox

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: mooman
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 05:07 PM

Thanks Morty for drawing this to our attention.

The WTO is an outfit that is increasingly getting up my nose with their antics.

mooman

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Morticia
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 05:23 PM

WTO= World Trade Organisation....if you open the page it tells you what it sees the problem being.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 05:56 PM

Mountjoy - click on the clickie in Morticia's original post. Essentially, the US and the Pharmaceutical Industry are against lowering the cost of drugs to Third World Countries even though it means that thousands die from curable and treatable diseases every day. It is the same mentality that keeps our elderly (in the US)penniless or without necessary medication.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 06:35 PM

Thanks Morticia, Oxfam is one of the few international agencies that I gladly support and particularly on this issue.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: GeorgeH
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 07:25 AM

Signed. Thanks, Mortica/Joe for bringing this to our attention.

As for Oxfam being "one of the few agencies . . I gladly support" - can't entirely agree; there's quite a few I'd put up there with them, and I have to say the French Medecin sans Frontieres (of course the spelling's wrong - I can't even manage English) are, IMO, out in front of them. But that's another discussion!

George

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 07:57 AM

Done and done thanks for the info. This shows the dark side of capitalism.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 08:03 AM

Forgot to post the other day, but signed and selectively forwarded here Mortie.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 08:06 AM

Signed it and sent it on. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 10:55 AM

Does anyone know what the proposed changes are that the US is supposed to be blocking? Does anyone know what the current rules on drug patents are?

I went to the World Health Organization's website, and can find no mention of cost or drugs being a factor in whether or not people receive treatment with drugs. (This may mean it's not there, or simply that I couldn't find it.) I'm not sure who they give drugs to, but they have a global pool of funds and provide drugs at no cost.

I don't know what WTO patent rules are, but the typical drugs used to treat malaria and TB haven't been under US patent for years - probably more like decades.

Sorry for being difficult - I'd just like to know exactly what I'm signing.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 11:22 AM

Seems like I remember a program on this on 60 minutes a while back. The long and the short of it is, the drug companies dont want to sell their grossly overpriced goods wholesale. Probably because they dont want us to know how much profit they are taking.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 12:09 PM

I saw the same. Wish I could remember the details but the picture is etched on my brain. African men and children in tears being held down and screaming in pain as a medication was injected into them that would either kill them or cure the disease. The pain of this injection was equated to having your blood on fire. A simple, painless medication is not available due to cost. After the broadcast, some price concessions were made.

Since they need to keep their margins high (and I am a firm supporter of capitalism and profits), couldn't these companies arrange cash rebate programs in the form of charitable donations? The medications would reach those who need them and the companies could declare a tax write-off. Just a suggestion. Possibly, a naive one.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: GUEST,-gargoyle
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 12:11 AM

Folks ... I have quadrupled my investments in a DOWN market....because of pharmaceticals....

WE NEED THE PROFITS...to encourage research....otherwise you would be stuck with asprin for all your cancers...diabetes....and heart disease.Get Real...think it through!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 05:18 AM

Jeri, in Canada the length of the patent used to be shorter (17 years) than that of the US (20 years), but was changed with the passage of Bill C-91 to comply with US laws. The multinational drug companies still managed to make huge profits in this country despite Canadian generic drug manufacturing.

Before the WTO, individual countries could determine how long they would grant patent protection on drugs in their own "soverign" nations. Here is an article on how it has affected Canada and the implication on generic drugs.

The Doctors Without Borders site also provides some background and there is a link on the Oxfam site under Issues that also summarizes the problem.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 05:20 AM

hmm....spelling......oh well.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign this petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 10:06 AM

Metchosin, thanks for the links. Lots of good information at the Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders site.

I may be a pain in the butt, but I sometimes manage to learn something because of it.

From what I gather, the problem is with patents on new drugs. The standard drugs for pandemic diseases such as malaria and tuberculosis are less effective because of drug resistance.

The website said that the US was trying to extend the 20 patent. Governments may also grant licenses to produce the drugs to other countries and ignore "intellectual property" rights in favor of public health needs. It appears the US is trying to not only block changes that would make this easier, but is actually trying to make licensing more difficult.

The MSF/DWB website isn't specific about any proposed changes, but my guess is that's because they believe the general public won't read gazillion page documents about it. What they have is a summary, and it has helped me understand what the whole thing's about.

While I understand drug companies need the incentive of profit in order to want to develop drugs, I don't like it nor do I think it's right. It's the way capitalism works. Personally, I feel that having a motive (profit) that differs from the reason for doing something (health), if it works at all, we're lucky.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 01:29 PM

What a lot of Canadians were ticked about, Jeri, was that American laws were deemed the standard for our own and the Canadian government was "leveling the playing field" in the area of health care and domestic law, to the detriment of Canadian citizens, while lying out of both sides of their mouth, that our health care system was not on the table regarding "so called free trade" negotiations. One of the many reasons why a lot of ordinary Canadians are pissed with NAFTA and the WTO.

The Canadian generic drug companies previously paid royalties to the multinational patent holders to produce the cheaper domestic drugs and this worked relatively well (ie. it was still hugely profitable for the patent holders) until they got even greedier.

As a consequence, the problem is not just with new drugs, but with what was considered relatively old drugs as well.

This, in a country, whose public policy and most citizens' cherished belief is that, with universal health care, we acknowledge the value of every human life in our society. I sort of like it when compassion and fair play were held in higher regard than self serving greed and the relentless pursuit of power over others.

This huge increase in drug costs and signing agreements (by being bullied or in Canada's case, complicit) that allows American domestic law, to supercede that of your own country, is causing painful ramifications in this relatively well off nation and is devastating in poorer countries.

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM

Drugs, and the entire health care scene, are costly as we all know. But you have to wonder just what the actual profits are. When I look at my hospital bills and then at the amount deducted (adjustments) for "In-System" care, I have to wonder just what is going on. A procedure billed at $1500.00 is reduced to $640.00......So who pays the $1500? The people without insurance? Some other insurance that is out of the system? And is the $640 accurate? I can't believe they are billing "at cost." So what do things really cost?

Drugs are a good example...........Were I to go to a pharmacy approved by my insurance and purchase a month's worth of drugs at retail, the price would be about $285.00. Using my insurance, the cost would be $90.00.......BUT........If I mail order them on a three month basis, I can get an ENTIRE THREE MONTH SUPPLY for $35.00. In other words, for a three month supply of drugs the cost is:

RETAIL----------------$855.00
With INSURANCE--------$270.00
Insurance MAIL ORDER--$ 35.00

Someone is making some money somewhere and I think the profits may be in the windfall category at times. I'm just happy to have the insurance we do.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 02:20 PM

Don't get me wrong....PROFIT is not a dirty word to me, but the medical field seems to have a really odd structure when it comes to billing. In business, the companies I worked for had a retail and several sets of discounted wholesale figures depending on the account size and other things as well as "specials" but you always were aware of the basic structure and the discounts never approached the figures I see on my insurance statements.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Please sign petition - WTO drug patent rules
From: Jenny H
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 04:06 PM

Like most people, I'm often asked to sign email petitions - but is there really any point? Does anybody really take seriously a petition with just a printed list of names, not signatures, with no verifiable postal addresses? I've got 4 (I think!) e-mail addresses at present and could easily get as many more as I want to put multiple signatures on petitions. For that matter, I've got an address book full of other people's email addresses which I could add on as well. I should imagine recipients of petitions are well aware of this.
For that matter, although the Oxfam one avoids this by having a box to type into, the 'chain' type of petition provides a whole list of names that can be simply copied 'n pasted into any other petition ... I'm afraid I don't touch them with a bargepole, no matter how good the cause. Sorry!
Jenny H
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