'I Am Undone' meaning

Subject: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST,Whistle and Bagpipes
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:24 AM

I've always wondered what the expression actually means of "I am undone" or such. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a Liam Clancy tune "Foggy Fogy Dew" in which it is used. What is it's proper meaning?

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:43 AM

I'm not familiar with that version of the song but it may mean ruined or left without hope/future.

A couple of examples that spring to my mind are The Newry Highwayman where "My wife she siged I am undone" and The Jolly Beggarman where we have "For you have stole my maidenhead and I am quite undone".

Jon

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:59 AM

Jon's answer sounds about right. Compare also the saying 'that will be his undoing'. Sort of downfall I suppose.
Kris

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: IanC
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:02 AM

Just so

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Suffet
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:16 AM

Several ways of translating "I am undone" follow:

1. "Well, I'm f---ed!" Both literally and figuratively.

2. "Fine mess you've gotten me into!"

3. "I'm spoiled goods."

4. "This is my downfall." Morally, socially, and possibly even economically. See #3 above. Also #1.

5. "My reputation is shot!" So says Little Suzie upon waking up. Also see #3 above.

6. "You S.O.B.! If you knocked me up, then you're taking the little bastard!"


Anyone wish to add to this list?

---- Steve

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Ringer
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:34 AM

The earliest reference I know is the KJV of the bible: Isaiah (Chap 6), having been floored before a vision of God, says "Woe is me, for I am undone." Be interesting to know just how close a translation of the original Hebrew this is. I wonder if Cranmer and his ilk, the translators, knew songs in which the phrase occurred.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 07:32 AM

Your fly is open?

Sorry, bad joke. "I am undone"..See: Discombobulated

Spaw

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 08:29 AM

Using biblegateway.com which is excellent for searching for pasages in the bible, I have found the verse is Isiah 6 v5.

King James Version gives:

"Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."

The New International Version gives:

"Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."

So "ruined" would again seem a fair bet.

I have also tried Young's Literal Translation which I believe sticks closer to the original Hebrew. It uses neither term though...

"And I say, `Wo to me, for I have been silent, For a man -- unclean of lips [am] I, And in midst of a people unclean of lips I am dwelling, Because the King, Jehovah of Hosts, have my eyes seen.'"

Jon

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Amos
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 09:44 AM

Interesting underlying assumption that one's being, status, fate, well-being, and so on are the by-products of one's "doing", which then gets "undone" or crushed by an untoward incident. Perfectly true.

A

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:08 AM

Loss of Virginity would be my first interpretation, really, depending on the exact context of course.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Gary T
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:23 AM

A plain old dictionary defines it as "ruined, disgraced, etc.," with a secondary meaning of "emotionally upset, greatly perturbed."

While it can certainly be a result of loss of virginity, there are countless examples of the term being used where loss of virginity is not involved.

It may help to think of it as akin to "unraveled," where one has metaphorically woven or built a life situation or reputation, which is now coming apart.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:27 AM

I have also heard it used in a far less negative sense: for example a grandfather might say that he will not, under any circumstances, buy candy for his granddaughter, but "one smile from that cherubic face, and I am undone."

Alex

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:33 AM

Oooops...messed up the HTML there, it was meant to emphasise just the word FIRST...sorry, think that error changed the sense of what I was trying to say.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:36 AM

Well, lessee here Alex..........If we combine your thoughts with the sexual connotations above, I'd have to figure Gramps for a pedophile.

I can't buy the the sexual undone thing anyway. Generally, a guy trying to get a piece says, "Let's DO it." Unless he referring to getting her bra off, "Let's UNDO it," don't make a lotta' sense now do it? I suppose there are quite a few girls who have become pregnant that might like to undo it, but "it" only goes one way.

Spaw

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: LR Mole
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:12 AM

Lenny Bruce would disagree, I suppose; he used to have a whole routine asking why "F--k you" is the worst thing one could say, when it's one of the most desireable... "unf--k you" is really what was meant, he felt.But it was a more innocent time then. "Undo you" has possibilities as an imprecation, but sounds like a Rolling Stones album title.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:19 AM

That was a great bit too........"Fuck You!"...."Why thank you very much! Do you have some for my mother too?"

Carlin also had a real funny bit with replacing the word kill with fuck in all the old movie cliches....."Okay Sheriff, we're gonna' fuck you now."

Spaw

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:30 AM

*LOL*

In that case, I'll have to try & track down the song where a British Guardsman 'does' the girl again, & gives her back her maidenhead....

No sure of the ttle..I THINK it might be 'The Widow of Westmorelands Daughter'....

*goes to check*

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST,MudWeasel
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 11:59 AM

It is Widow of Westmoreland's Daughter, and the only place I've heard it is on a Fairport Convention Live CD called (I think) In Real Time...

-MudWeasel

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:32 AM

Cheers, MudWeasel

Not had any luck in Searching for the words, unfortunately, & I certainly cant do them from memory. I'll get 'Les from Hull' to put them up though, cos he sings it.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 06:11 PM

THE WIDOW OF WESTMORLAND'S DAUGHTER in the Digital Tradition database.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST,MudWeasel
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 07:26 PM

Ay, that's the one...

Getting roughly back to the trhead topic. there's a song (couldn't find it in the DT) that I think Planxty does (I'm being so helpful, I know. I don't even have a title for it. The poor drummer lad falls for a noble lady, and his take on it is "and if she denies me I'm surely undone."

No virginity context here, rather the opposite.

I could probably bring myself to type up the lyrics if someone was to ask nicely an' all...

-MudWeasel

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 08:13 PM

*scratches head*

I really dunno what I'm doing wrong.....sometimes when I Search in the Digitrad, stuff comes up, but other stuff doesnt though it later proves to have been there all along...

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Greyeyes
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 09:02 AM

The DT search engine is fickle, you're better off using the DT/forum search, much more user friendly & it separates the hits into DT & forum.

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 10:24 AM

Thanks, Greyeyes! *S*

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LITTLE DRUMMER
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 10:57 AM

MudWeasel,

Never type lyrics if there's a cut & paste opportunity.

The DT has a version under the title THE DRUMMER BOY which is a bit different from Planxty's. But I could locate a version on the web (http://members.chello.at/phaedra.fantic/little_drummer.htm) which is what I remember Planxty sing. My cut and paste job follows below.

Wolfgang

THE LITTLE DRUMMER

One fine summer's morning both gallant and gay
Twenty-four ladies were out on the quay
And a regiment of soldiers, it did pass them by
A drummer, and one of them soon caught his eye.

He went to his comrade and to him did say,
"Twenty-four ladies I saw yesterday.
Oh and one of them ladies she has me heart won
And if she denies me I'm surely undone."

"Go to this lady and tell her your mind,
Tell her she's wounded your heart inside.
Go tell her she's wounded your poor heart full sore,
And if she denies you what can she do more."

So early next morning this young man arose,
Dressed himself up in a fine suit and clothes.
With a watch in his pocket and a cane in his hand,
Saluting the ladies, he walked down the strand.

He went up to her and he said, "Pardon me.
Pardon me, lady, for making so free.
Oh, me fine honoured lady, you have my heart won
And if you deny me I'm surely undone."

"Be off, little drummer, now what do you mean?
I'm the lord's daughter of Ballykisteen.
Oh, I'm the lord's daughter that's honoured, do you see?
Go off, little drummer, you're making too free."

He put on his hat and he bade her farewell
Saying, "I'll send me soul down to heaven or hell,
For with this long pistol that hangs by my side.
Oh I'll put an end to me own dreary life."

"Come back, little drummer, and don't take it ill
For I do not want to be guilty of sin,
To be guilty of innocent blood for to spill,
Come back, little drummer, I'm here at your will.

"And we'll hire a car and to Bansha we'll go.
There we'll be married in spite of our foes.
Oh for what can they say when it's over and done
But I fell in love with the roll of your drum."

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST,MudWeasel
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 04:57 PM

That's pretty much the version I heard. But I learned something that I would never have known if I had merely continued to sing the song from memory instead of seeing it in print.

I now know how to spell "Ballykisteen"

Huh.

But the point remains that the Drummer boy wasn't "undone" in the sense of being ravaged, raped or deflowered, he was merely "undone" in the sense that the lady's rejection left him suicidally depressed.

Side note: In my Band we call this "The Passive-Agressive Soldier-Boy Song".

-Mudweasel

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Oct 01 - 02:57 AM

To me the place names looks more like a transliteration. I'd not bet on them being correct (I'll have a look into the Planxty songbook to make sure)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST,MudWeasel
Date: 12 Oct 01 - 12:30 PM

Well, given what I know about Gaelic pronunciation, the actual spelling is more like:
Baile Chiqroxaxtmpupsde

Go figure.

-MudWeasel

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 08:01 AM

It's too late,
she's gone too far.
She's lost the sun,
she's come undone. Randy Bachman{I think} Mike

Subject: RE: 'I Am Undone' meaning
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 01 - 08:23 AM

mkebenn, uncookied!