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BS: Difference between peace and anti-war
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BS: Difference between peace and anti-war |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:07 PM Well, Elva, what would you suggest we do? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Ebbie Date: 18 Oct 01 - 11:59 PM Be WILLING to do a 180. Go immediately into a totally security-based mode. Acknowledge that the old way does not work. Call together the best minds that each country, each antagonistic country, can offer. Meet in an open-ended format that has definite parameters in turn, i.e., TALKING, LISTENING, EXPLORING, BRAINSTORMING. Perhaps points could be publicized and discussed in community roundtables all over the world. We have always said that the Asian world is concerned about saving face. We might admit that the western world has the same problem- although our concern is about appearing weak. But who was it that said something like, "He who bends to assist the powerless never stood so tall"? I don't KNOW the answer, DougR. You got any ideas that don't rely on brute force and short term fixes? Ebbie Elva Bontrager |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:44 AM Make that brute force and short term fixes which have nothing to do with the original attacks on America, and which will come back to bite us in the ass in short order. Hasn't it occurred to any of you hawks that Pakistan has nukes, and a military divided over supporting Americans and supporting the Taliban? What is to prevent a military coup of the Taliban generals from occurring there, and then what sort of bloodbath of do you suppose "our boys" will suffer at the hands of our military hosts in the region? Or what is to stop a disgruntled general from using a nuke against us? Or Europe? Or China? Or Israel? The stakes have never been so high, and the response has never been so poorly thought out as this one. But hey--Bushie Boy and Cheney have the Caspian oil fields in their sights, and they are going for it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 01 - 01:14 PM Guest: If you want to be taken seriously, get yourself a name. Ebbie: No, I think the situation is being handled as it should be. I do not think anyone believes that the current campaign offers a short-term solution though. The war is against terrorism. Not just terrorism in Afghanstan. It is going to be a long-term solution and may take many years. Sitting around conference tables "talking" would only serve to provide encouragement to the terrorists. While we were "talking" they would be flying more airplanes into our buildings, power plants, schools, or spreading germs among the populations. Not just the U.S. population either. I assume everyone is aware that a package containing traces of Anthrax has been discovered in Kenya, and it was mailed from Atlanta, Georgia. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Ebbie Date: 19 Oct 01 - 01:34 PM DougR:"Go immediately into a totally security-based mode." Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:13 PM I think DougR needs to find his way into a safe, insulated world where no one will hurt him and his feelings anymore. We should probably stop badgering him with difficult concepts like "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." I think it makes the voices telling him to avenge the innocents get louder and louder. Noam Chomsky is right. There is no point in trying to explain the elementary to those who choose to remain intentionally naive and ignorant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:34 PM I assume everyone is aware that a package containing traces of Anthrax has been discovered in Kenya, and it was mailed from Atlanta, Georgia.
I'm having difficulty understanding what that has to do with our "war on terrorism" until we have some evidence indicating who is responsible. If it was mailed from Georgia, it could just as easily have been mailed by an American with an agenda as by a member if Bin Ladin's organization. Until we have evidence, it's all just speculation. Remember the Oklahoma City bombing? We pinned that on middle eastern terrorists, too. Until we found out that it was our own boys who did it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:45 PM Guest: you can't hurt my feelings, so don't concern yourself about it. You are a noperson until you get a name anyway. Carol: I don't recall mentioning that Ben Laben or any of his crew were responsible for the mailing from Atlanta. Regardless of who mailed it, it is an act of terrorism (that, my friend, is the connection). Nope, Ebbie, I, like you and so many others here, are allowing others to insure my security as as they face the enemy in Afghanstan. This provides us the security that allows us to second guess, bitch, moan, complain and pontificate about what would be a more effective approach to the problem. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:48 PM DougR, you recently said on another thread that terrorism is sometimes justified. You can't have it both ways. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Troll Date: 19 Oct 01 - 05:54 PM An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. What a lot of hogwash! First of all, the last guy standing can still see. Secondly, you don't negotiate with a rabid dog. You put it out of its misery as quickly and humanely as possible. You still don't seem to understand that bin Laden and his friends want us dead. I'll repeat that, THEY WANT US DEAD>. How in the world are you going to deal with mad dogs who want nothing more than to see your entire nation destroyed; man, woman, and child. They have stated, repeatedly, that this is their goal. Why are people in this country so reluctant to believe him. Are you -anti war or pro-peace- willing to die because your ideals are more importamnt than your lives. If you are, please let me know because, if it comes down to it, I don't want one of you guarding MY back. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:07 PM Well troll, I don't think you would have to worry about one of them guarding your back. It appears they wouldn't even guard their own. CarolC: Sorry, can you point me to that thread? I don't recall ever posting that I thought terrorism could be justified under any conditions. I'd appreciate it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Ebbie Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:09 PM DougR and Troll- you just don't get it, do you. Take the club away from the schoolyard bully and he thinks there is nothing to be done. I, for one, am not equating all things evil with the United States of America. I, like most here, love my country- it is HOME. The best thing about this country, in my opinion, is that we are pluralistic, that we are willing to entertain new ideas, that we are idealistic. Wouldn't you rather live with the legacy of being the country that tried? Rather than the country that was so bullheadedly angry it couldn't even see the cliff? I remember the '50s slogan: Better Dead than Red. Which is absolute bullshit. No administration has the right to doom its people (or the world) to extinction. And make no mistake about it- I think we are flirting with things way beyond our ken. Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: CarolC Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:21 PM Here you go, DougR...
Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night.
Before this is all over, I think we may need lots of graduates from the School of the Americas. I hope they are well trained and that they know how to deal with terrorists.
DougR
Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night.
They ought to, DougR. They are terrorists.
Subject: RE: BS: Bush's press conference last night. Yep, and it may require terrorists, perhaps, to defeat terrorists, CarolC.! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Troll Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:33 PM No, Ebbie, I DON'T want to be known as the country that tried. I want to be known as the country that survived. You are the one who doesn't get it. These people want to kill every one of us. You want to open a dialog with them. How mant times do youhave to be told before it finally sinks in. They don't want to talk. As far as they are concerned, there is nothing to discuss. If we give them everything they say they want, we'll all be dead. And you talk of alternatives and the free exchange of ideas. With terrorists. Amazing. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Ebbie Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:35 PM Like I said, You don't get it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 20 Oct 01 - 12:02 AM And like Troll said, Ebbie, you must don't get it. Carol: I did not propose in that post terrorist attacks against innocent people. As far as I'm concerned, terrorist tactics used against terrorists is totally justified, and that is what we are going to see with our Special Forces. Read the thread, Carol! Don't read into it what you would like to see there. Read what is there. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: CarolC Date: 20 Oct 01 - 12:19 AM DougR, in the same thread from which I got the above posts, you said you think you would probably support the activities of the terrorists who are trained in the School of the Americas, even though you admitted that you don't know very much about it. The terrorists whose training we have sponsored at the School of the Americas have killed many, many innocent people at our behest. Maybe you're the one who needs to do some reading. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Greg F. Date: 20 Oct 01 - 11:34 AM Doug can't be bothered to do any reading or learning, Carol. He's stated this repeatedly for a year or more in dozens of threads; he's 'too busy', he's 'done all the reading he's going to do', yadda,yadda,yadda. If you've time to waste, just search back and you'll find all the examples you need. Suggestion: simply don't waste any more time on him. "In his heart, he knows he's right". Divine inspiration, apparently. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 20 Oct 01 - 05:31 PM Uncoiled again huh Greg? That's kind of good. I've missed you spewing venom around here. You've been entirely too tame recently. Carol: No point in my attempting to explain my position to you it seems. You still read into whatever I write whatever you want to see. Nope, I'll try one more time. I think we are going to have to employ guerilla warfare against the terrorist as we evidently are at the moment in Afghanstan. These tactics are similar to those employed by terrorists when fighting in the field. I do not propose under any circumstances that we employ terrorist tactics against civilians. I think it rather likely that our Special Forces probably received training at School of the Americas and if they did, I support it. I doubt seriously that anyone posting here, including you, Carol, know anymore about School of the Americas other than criticizms you have read written by its critics. If it was not serving a useful service, I don't believe our government would operate it. As to the damage that has been done to people in other countries by its graduates, I suspect the same is true. You only know what some biased writer has written about it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Greg F. Date: 20 Oct 01 - 05:50 PM If it was not serving a useful service, I don't believe our government would operate it. As to the damage that has been done to people in other countries by its graduates, I suspect the same is true. You only know what some biased writer has written about it. See what I mean, Carol? Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: DougR Date: 20 Oct 01 - 07:11 PM Yep, Carol, see what Greg means? It should be pretty clear. It's only a five word sentence! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Difference between peace and anti-war From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Oct 01 - 07:56 PM "You're right from your side, I'm right from mine We're both one too many mornings and a thousand miles behind I've got no right to be here, if you've no right to stay We're both one too many mornings and a thousand miles away" (Bob Dylan) - LH |