BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 03:56 PM

Folks who watch Jay Leno deserve him ... Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:29 PM

I think we have pretty much reached a consensus on Leno. I am gratified not to be the only one who feels this way about him. Jim Dixon summed up my feelings pretty well. Even if he is half Italian, I don't think that gives him licence to stereotype. That being said, I don't see anything wrong with making a joke about a culture once in a while. I simply think that Leno does it way too much. God bless him I wish him well. I just wish he'd try a little harder.

If I am not mistaken, Steve Allen originated the Tonight Show. There was a man who could could be funny at a higher level. He doesn't tell nearly as many jokes per minute than Leno, but the ones he tells are way better. Maybe Leno is smarter than I think. Maybe he is just playing to his audience. But I still think he could do better.

Catspaw, I am not offended, What you said got me thinking, is all and I just spoke frankly about what I felt. Often it is OK to exaggerate, "play dumb", or ignore the consequences to tell a joke. But it is a fine line. In my opinion you are most often on the correct side of that line. While Leno wastes too much time on the wrong side of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 04:44 PM

You're right Jack, it was Steve Allen who started the Tonight Show and what he did was beyond comparison....because he was beyond comparison. He was brilliant and quick with a mind set slightly askew giving him a unique interpretation of the world. One of my great people of all time..........

If you weren't around here when he died, you'll see he was loved by many here too........Goodbye Steverino

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:00 PM

I greatly enjoyed "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister" when they were shown here. I only wish there could be equally good satire based on the American political system. I'm told "The West Wing" is a good portrayal of American presidential politics, but that's drama, not satire.

I've seen some good British political drama too. There was one called (if I remember correctly) "A Very British Revolution" and one about a thoroughly evil prime minister reminiscent of Richard III -- the name of it escapes me right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:29 PM

Yeah, Jim, I think I remember the one you're referring to. There were three altogether, known collectively as The Urquhart Trilogy, and if I remember right, they played on Masterpiece Theatre in the early Nineties: "House of Cards," "The Final Cut," and "To Play the King." They starred Ian Richardson as Francis Urquhart. Great drama, and absolutely chilling stuff!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:49 PM

Hi Jim. It simply wouldn't be ALLOWED either here (in Canada) or in the States. We have our own political satire programs but they are so mild compared to "Yes Minister" as to be quite unfunny.

Just the fact that so many good folks here are so outraged at Leno's tacky jokes proves it. In five minutes "Yes Minister" would slice through the hypocracy so quickly that the lawsuits would all be filed by the next day. EVERYONE would get it...The AL Sharpton types, Italian Mobsters, Christian fundamentalists, they'd have had a field day with Clinton's wandering penis (not yours Mr. Hammond) and the material they could get from Dubya's syntax would be constant and really vicious. What they'd do to Teddy Kennedy would be equally cruel (and just as accurate), and I simply don't think those being sent up would stand for it...legally.

The reason the Brits can slag the French, (and everyone else) is 'cause they aim the ray-gun straight back at themselves just as pointedly. They simply laugh at stuff that many North Americans would call 'fightin words'.

They got to me early (with the Goon shows) so I love that kind of humour...all the while knowing it's in poor taste.

Ever seen "Ab Fab"? Try to make fun of alcoholism and cocaine addiction on THIS side of the pond. they DO, and it's hilarious.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:55 PM

Red Skelton made his core work on alcoholics. We used to laugh at ourselves - now we demean in the name of "funny." I watched Mr. Leno once. He is a genuinely nice person and does some charity work through his affiliation with the Harley Owner's Group. I'd rather watch reruns of The Three Stooges, my screen saver (my lovely wife and I on top of Galena Summit in October on our bikes - it takes my breath away), and the Gong Show - Loved that one!!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: radriano
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:01 PM

I find both Leno and Letterman rather pathetic. Jay Leno has this thing he does at the beginning of the show where he bounds out and shakes hands (or just touches) members of the audience. I find it rather revolting.

I agree that neither Leno or Letterman are that funny. Leno's habit of repeating the punch line of a joke is irritating. Actually, towards the end of his run, I found Johnny Carson's monologues incredibly boring but at least he was a decent interviewer.

And that brings me to another point. I seem to remember that Carson's monologue was about ten to fifteen minutes followed by several guests. Leno, on the other hand, uses half the show's time for his monologue and skits and spends far less time with guests. Occasionally I listen to Leno or Letterman when there's a guest on I want to see. Inevitable I'm dissapointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: X
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:09 PM

I did watch Earl Scruggs on Letterman. Did any of you see that?

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:56 PM

I still prefer Letterman, mainly because he has more interaction with the audience and looks more comfortable in the host role. As an interviewer he's no great shakes, but neither is Leno. Letterman's humor is more bizarre and innovative, while Leno has the straight-ahead stand-up routine style. Leno's plunging into the audience was a direct result of his perceived lack of rapor with the crowd compared to Letterman.

One of my favorite Letterman bits was when he was informed by his announcer that his next guest was late and the announcer said "you'll just have to wait, Dave. Find something constructive to do." We then see the standard clock with moving hands to indicate time passing, then cut back to Dave constructing a small trapeze on his desk, then the clock again, and Dave is showing a cat the action of the trapeze and touching its paws to it, the clock once more, and now we see Dave smiling in satisfaction as the cat swings skillfully from the trapeze. Somehow, I can't picture Carson or Leno doing that bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: GUEST,Ole Bull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:58 PM

Hillarious! Thanks for sharing. More French jokes, please.

PeteBoom. Good for the History lesson. But when you mentioned French acheivements of the FIW you neglected to mention the victories over the colonial villages, the thousand or so civilian non-combatant casualties; farmers, children, babies; which they tortured, killed and kidnapped along with their Indian allies. Emma Coleman's book on the subject gives the butcher's bill which is two volumes long.

And Rick, the Normans whick produced Bill the Bastard (aka the Conqueror) were not Frankish in origin, rather they were the result of Scandinavian invaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:26 PM

Norton1: Where's Galena Summit?

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:34 PM

I saw Scruggs on Letterman. How about that band he had with him, All stars every one and even at his age he was probably the best player there.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: GUEST,Des sacre chiens des cochon d'anglais!!!!
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:12 PM

You are a boonch of fookaires for making zee insults of us French. But we shall have zee last laugh yes, as we are making love with our faces to your moothaires and seestaires.

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:15 PM

I saw a live performance by Jay Leno several years before he got the Tonight Show. The routine was funny, very funny, but his demeanor was exceptionally peculiar. He simply was not a human in the same room with the rest of us. He was an automaton, a point hammered home when I saw him pretend to respond to audience input, of which there was none. I'm sure this bears no relation to Jay the person, but Jay the performer was very funny, but just not "there."

So, certainly, his willingness to repeat the punch lines of lame assed jokes is a business decision. He KNOWS funny stuff, and used to perform it. The blame does lie with us as a collective audience, and the "lowest common denominator," as noted above.

The amount of money at stake far exceeds anyone's capacity to stand up for the principles of "good comedy."

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:41 PM

GUEST, Des sacre chiens des cochon d'anglais.....You said: You are a boonch of fookaires for making zee insults of us French. But we shall have zee last laugh yes, as we are making love with our faces to your moothaires and seestaires.

That's okay.....Our Dads fucked your mothers for chocolate bars.

Spaw (recycled Lenny Bruce joke)

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:41 PM

From: GUEST,Des sacre chiens des cochon d'anglais!!!!

as we are making love with our faces to your moothaires and seestaires. Although my Mother is in her late 70s - > PLEASE DO!!!! What a calming effect that would have! And my sister? If you can get that onry cuss to smile I would certainly appreciate it!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Jay Leno, bigoted buffoon.
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:01 PM

Nowadays practically the only guests that appear on Leno or Letterman are those promoting a recent movie or TV show (occasionally a book or CD).

Anyone remember Jack Paar? In his day, guests were chosen because they were good conversationalists. Some were even writers. Remember Jack Douglas and Reiko? Alexander King? Robert Morley? Oscar Levant? Malcolm Muggeridge? Paar had guests that most Americans never would have heard of if they hadn't been on his show.

Granted, I was pretty young then, and more easily impressed than I am now. And I honestly can't remember what they talked about. But I remember having the impression that these people were Paar's personal friends, and that even if he hadn't had a talk show, he would have invited them to his home and had more or less the same kind of conversation he was having on national TV.

By the way, how did the custom get started that the host sits behind a desk and the guests don't? Is there some intentional symbolism in this arrangement? Is it supposed to look like a job interview? Steve Allen, Paar, Carson, Leno, and Letterman all did/do it that way. There are others who don't/didn't: Charlie Rose, Dick Cavett, Oprah Winfrey, for example – but those are all less prominent than the former group. What does this all mean?