Maybe some one can answer this question

Subject: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Louie Roy
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:21 AM

On CNN News 1/10/02 a drug group went to Canada and bought 30 ton of cold tablets without raising any suspicion and trucked them into the USA to make drugs with,but here in Oregon a family got raided by the drug inforcement officers for buying a gallon of iodine they used to treat a crippled animal Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:24 AM

A gallon of Iodine? What the hell animal were they treating? An entire family of Bigfoots?

Spaw--and no, the law rarely makes sense LouieRoy

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: beadie
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:26 AM

Which raises the perennial question:, "Is it Bigfoots or Bigfeet?"

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:26 AM

So, Louie...what is your question, exactly?

A

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:27 AM

Perhaps the animal that they were treating was the Ass that the law often is, Spaw?

I concur. I doubt if anyone can answer the question Louie Ray but I guess it is hypothetical anyway. Thanks (seriously) for reminding me that stupidity occurs the world over and not just here in the UK!

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: beadie
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:37 AM

Actually, Louie, if you read the bare text of the law, it probably makes some degree of sense (you may not agree, but it likely as not follows some sort of expressed public policy). Where the problem comes in is in the interpretation and enforcement of the law. Some of the folks hired to enforce these public policies are, shall we say, dispossessed of even the most rudimentary common sense, or, more frequently, they are following a personal agenda that has little to do with that policy.

"Any means to an end is fair when doing the work of the Lord."

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:53 AM

What drug is made with iodine? When I was in grade school we used to make a powerful explosive with iodine crystals and one other substance (Not in the old Gilbert Chemistry sets for kids, but we gained the knowledge there).
A gallon? An elephant maybe?

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Peg
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:55 AM

Iodine is still often used as a disinfectant for wounds. (I would think hydrogen peroxide would do the trick and it is a lot less toxic).

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: JenEllen
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:11 PM

Chlorhexadine is a better wound cleaner, but you can't beat iodine for integumentary gunk like mange and eczema. Although how such a thing could cripple an animal?

The law? Who knows. Probably boils down to a matter of priorities.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Devilmaster
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:43 PM

Probably one of the joys of living on a border town.

Sounds like the cold tablets were something the FDA doesn't allow 'over the counter' in the states, but we allow it here in Canada. Happens all the time. There are some quirky things that Yanks and Canuckleheads see differently on.

For example, I remember the drug that Mark McGuire used during his Home Run record is not available in Canada over the counter. People were going stateside and buying it there. Also in liquor stores in Ontario I cannot buy Lamb's 151 dark rum. But I can get it stateside.

Like I said, one of the joys of living in a border town.

Steve

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Fortunato
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:49 PM

30 tons of cold tablets. Snuck them out in their body cavaties did they. Sneaky bastards. Say what kind of drugs can you make with cold tablets?

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Devilmaster
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:52 PM

Acutally, now that I think of it, does the FDA allow codeine in over the counter stuff?

Cause I'm pretty sure Canada does, looking at a bottle of ES Tylenol.... Damn! no ingredient list.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:57 PM

Like Amos, I am still waiting for Louie's question...

I have a question of my own: Did the Canadian drug transaction take place in Blind River?

- LH

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Devilmaster
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 01:00 PM

Hang on....I have the answer, sorta.

next msg..........

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Devilmaster
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 01:10 PM

LEGAL DRUGS CROSSING BRIDGE FOR ILLEGAL USE
By Mike Trickey, Mark Kennedy - Southam News

The US says Canada must tighten its drug laws after millions of tablets of a cold medication - a key ingredient in the production of methamphetamine, better known as speed - were funnelled through Windsor to the US

Canadian Law does not require firms selling pseudophedrine, a chemical commonly used in cold and allergy medicines, to do checks on customers or determine final usage of the product.

Two drug operations, one in Chicago, the other, Detroit, have used the loophole to purchase tonnes in Canada from two Quebec-based firms, Frega and Formulex.

Referring to a bust last April in which American Customs seized 43 million tablets, - 12 tonnes - at the Ambassador Bridge, US Customs boss Robert Bonner said questions had to be raised about the amount of product being purchased. "There was enough decongestant in that truck to unplug every nose in Michigan for years" he said.

There ya have it. Got a cold? Come to Canada! :)

Steve

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 02:19 PM

A gallon of Iodine would be pretty common on a breeding operation. It is used to disinfect umbilical chords on foals. Usually done immediately after birth, or as close as possible, and most often squirted from a distance. In other words some of it misses the mark.

Hydrogen peroxide will burn a newborn's skin - quite severely - it eats healthy as well as unhealthy flesh. Iodine can also but is the lesser of the two. Iodine can also be used with DMSO (mixed) and squrted on open wounds to facilitate healing. Anyway that is what we use it for. We have about 8 head of horses with one to three new foals a year. A gallon is about 2 years worth of supplys for us. But then our refrigerator is also holding a broad assortment of syringes, anti-biotics, and other items that saves us a bundle by not having to use the Vet Clinic.

And I know of nothing that it can be made into that would be harmful - unless you drank it?

Steve

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 02:31 PM

Iodine is used in (illegal) methamphetimene labs, so the story could be true. I don't know if it is or not.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 02:33 PM

But what's the question?

And why ain't there a BS on this? This is another of those BS threads with a title that sounds like the first line of a song.

Maybe someone can answer this question,
Maybe someone can tell a lie,
Maybe someone can tell me why poor little puppies
Are put in this cold world to die...

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 02:43 PM

mix iodine with ammonia and you get a pretty powerful contact sensitive explosive.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 02:57 PM

I didn't know that Sorcha - learned something today.

Steve

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 03:16 PM

Mario, was it wise to mention the 2nd ingredient added to the iodine for the explosive I mentioned in my post? The explosive formed is ammonium metaperiodate. Per unit weight, it is much more explosive than dynamite. It can't be transported safely, since blowing on it will set it off. We used to scatter small amounts in the school corridors after the Down Books and Pencils Bell for the janitor to encounter when he swept up. Also around the drawer in a teacher's desk.
Now if Sorcha will tell the other ingredients to use with iodine to make a drug, we can all get high (not blown high).
The ranchers I know here stopped using iodine sometime ago.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 04:34 PM

Dicho - Uncertain where "here" is. But Jan informs me there is some new stuff the Vet asked her to try. It is apparently less caustic - but here? Iodine is still the treatment of choice.

I'm glad I didn't go to school with you!!! I'd probably ended up in jail instead of the Marines!! *BG*

Steve

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 04:52 PM

Still true? Cyclamates, banned in the US as cancer causing, are available in Canada while saccharin, banned in Canada as cancer causing, are available in the US. And where exactly do both stand on Aspertame?

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST,Amy in LA
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 05:26 PM

Iodine is not illegal in the USA. I have some in my first aid kit right now and I bought it last year at the local Sav-On drug store. So I guess I don't understand this thread.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 05:30 PM

It can be fairly difficult to buy pseudophedrine (Sudafed) in bulk in some places in the States, since it is the raw ingredient of choice to cook down into Speed. I'm fairly subject to nasal congestion, and (interestingly) can find it more readily in the retail store (the Post Exchange) at our local military base than I can in stores subject to state regulation. Go figure.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 06:15 PM

Norton, here is Alberta, Canada. I don't know the names of the liquids (clear when mixed), but they are used by us at branding parties. Something the rancher picks up at the vet. section of the supply stores.
Iodine has not been banned in either Canada or the US, I always keep a small bottle along with Polysporin or similar in my kit. The mercury-containig antiseptics such as mercurochrome (sp?) are gone.
Saccharin is NOT banned in Canada (I just 'phoned my pharmacist) but it bears a warning label, as do a number of other substances. Sugar is my preferred poison.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 09:51 PM

Correct Answer: Ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) and iodine are two of the three critical ingredients needed to make methamphetamine (speed). In the interests of social responsibility, I will not list the third ingredient here; those who are so inclined can certainly pursue that thread elsewhere.

There are currently some fairly strict regulations on buying the needed ingredients here in the U.S. This includes sharp limitations on the number of OTC ephedrine or pseudoephedrine containing cold medications, and iodine, and the other critical (un-named) ingredient(s). However, neither Canada nor Mexico have such restrictions in place, therefore meth cooks here in the U.S. commonly go to either of those countries to buy enormous quantities of these precursors - the sole purpose of which is to make dope. This is a constant bone of contention between the respective governments, especially Canada - no one wants to have to impose access restrictions along the northern border (like we have with Mexico) just because the Canadians don't care about the meth epidemic in the U.S. (and a 30 ton purchase is a nice chunk of change in a depressed Canadian economy, and doesn't hurt the balance of trade, either).

I have to say, I strongly doubt that the original post about a family in Oregon getting raided/busted for just a gallon of iodine solution is true, especially if they actually had a crippled animal (horse?) As several people have posted, iodine is legitimately used for treating animals (though a gallon is certainly excessive for one animal). If they were in fact raided/busted, there was doubtless "just a bit more" going on behind the scenes. Although there are those who see narcs behind every bush, the reality is that the DEA has lots more important things to worry about than something this mickey mouse.

Hope that clarifies things....

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST,sophocleese
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 10:02 PM

Hot damn! When I want ephedrine, for non-illegal purposes, I usually brew up a cup of Traditional Medicine's Breathe Easy Tea. Tradittional medicine is an American company. So what are American restrictions on herbal rememdies?

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 10:09 PM

I doubt if there's a bathroom in the British Isles without a bottle of iodine. You mean you don't use it on cuts in the States?

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 10:13 PM

For awhile, some meth cooks were using herbal products to get ephedrine - they (mostly) all gave it up, because it's too damn much work and there's so little ephedrine to get out.

Restrictions on herbal products are the responsibility of the FDA, not the DEA. Mostly, the FDA has its hands full trying to get people to back off on ridiculous claims of how their particular brand of snake oil will cure you of anything and everything under the sun. (I believe P.T. Barnum had an applicable expression on that one, too, the one about one being born every minute....)

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 10:17 PM

I strongly doubt if there's a single bathroom in the entire British Isles with a *gallon* of iodine. My cuts don't tend to be 500 kilometers long, either.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 10:29 PM

For anyone who has had chemistry, knock the oxygen off the ephedrine molecule and you get methamphetamine. Hmmm--- iodine and--- of course! But there are other ways of combining carbon-hydrogen molecules with nitrogen. All you stop by the restrictions are the simplest-minded kitchen sink type producers. There are many possibilities for designing your own drugs if you are so inclined.
The "war on drugs" as now waged will be never-ending and never successful until the profit incentive is removed. That possibility in the States seems dim.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: DonMeixner
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:02 PM

MMario, How often as a mere child in chem lab did I, along with friends, create such a mixture and then allow it to saturate and then dry inside a sugar cube and place it on the window sill where should a wandering horse fly land there upon blow itself to tiny bits in a haze of purple smoke. Or sprinkle the the liquid in droplets upon the floor from the door to the teachers desk. And once dry the drop lets would crackle and pop with each tread of Mr. Fuller's size 13's.

Don

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Louie Roy
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:17 PM

Yes there was a raid made on a ranchers home here in Oregon by the Douglas county sheriffs department and the rancher and his family were not even home so the officers drove through his gate with an armored truck battered his door down with a battering ram ramsacked his home and litterly destroyed everything inside kicked the door down to his grand daughters bedroom and turned everything inside upside down and they found absolutely nothing and this raid was carried out because he bought a gallon of iodine at a farm store.For the ones who don't know why a rancher would buy a gallon of 7% iodine when you raise animals when a new baby is born the first thing you do is iodine their navel and this keeps them from getting White Muscle disease which is in the soil and is transmitted to the newborn through their navel.7% iodine is used for many things on animals because of its searing power.Iodine according to the article in the paper it is used in meth labs,and the cold tablets are used to make meth.Devilmaster answered this very throughly in his comments.One other thing I failed to mention after this raid the officers left this residence in shambles,door open, gate open with absolutely no security.Amos and littlehawk wanted to know what my question was and I guess is how can you buy 30 tons of a product load it into semi truck and haul it into the USA without causing a red flag when the drug enforcement officers know that it wil be use to make drugs and then a rancher buy 1 gallon of 7% iodine and his home is raided and nearly destroyed.One person doesn't believe this happened here in Oregon but anyone with a computer can contact the Roseburg News Review located here in Roseburg Oregon and read the entire article. Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:26 PM

Don and MMario - I wish I had been in you guys class. I'd love to have watched a fly disapear in a purple haze!! Lord I'd of been impossible to live with!

As far as the quantity of Iodine - a gallon is almost as cheap as buying a quart - and it never goes bad that I am aware of. I think I agree with Guest about what happened at the farm.

I used to hang out with some of the idiots that manufacture/d this meth stuff - and they are not the sharpest tacks in the box. Far from it. Don't get me wrong - I agree with some one here who stated we'd never win the war unless the profit incentive is removed - and that ain't gonna happen! Just another little thing to keep the people at each other's throats while the Government sticks the taxes to us -

He said ruminating on the reality of it all in his own pea brain -

Steve

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:30 PM

And oh, those fires we started with potassium permanganate and.... Those lovely holes we burned in the kitchen table. Arsonists are born, not made. Or is it v. v. ?
DonM, our method was simpler, no cube. We put the wet saturated iodine xyls in place. When they dried... At the time, the druggist would sell us 1/8 lb. iodine crystals for fifty cents. In 1st year high school I was told I would never be a chemist and suspended (for a day or two). I was working on guncotton in my lab desk drawer when the teacher found the experiment in progress. Seems something went wrong and smoke was rising from the drawer. He said he had to penalize me for doing it incorrectly. Oh, lovely days of youthful inquiry! I don't think they really teach practical laboratory chemistry anymore except at the college level.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:38 PM

Anyone who tries to smuggles 30 tons of ephedrine/pseudoephedrine tablets into the U.S. (and gets caught) will be a guest of the Federal government for quite some time. Implying that such an effort would be ignored by the USCS, DEA, FBI, or Border Patrol is foolish.

On the rest of the story, I will state again that there is more to the story than stated, either with the family - or with the Sheriff.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:53 PM

Why did you post this Mr. Louie Roy?

It is unapproriate to this forum. Please search out a NewsGroup which is like-minded.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: beachcomber
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 03:53 PM

Browsing through this thread I notice that (as far as I can remember) no one has mentioned that the iodine could possibly be for use as an ingredient of some form of Iodine tablets. I understand that they are of benefit to those who have been infected with ANTHRAX.

beachcomber

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 09:14 PM

You are probably confusing iodine for potassium iodide. Potassium iodide tablets are (somewhat) useful for persons exposed to radiation, a la a Chernobyl type disaster. The U.S. Government is currently buying zillions of potassium iodide tablets in case our friendly neighborhhod terrorists decide to deliver a dirty nuclear bomb anywhere.

Take my word for it, iodine tablets would be about as useful against anthrax as a cinnamon flavored tic-tac. Then again, some of the "anthrax cures" on the Internet probably *are* cinnamon flavored tic-tacs!

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 09:39 PM

LOL! Whatta mark-up!!!

Louie -- you're looking at IVOS at work. That's a brand new acronym I just made up. It stands for Inependent Variables of Stupidity. You're not looking at wildly illogical policies from a high level of government, but wildly illogical applications and interpretations. Now it may be that the sheriff's daughter and the rancher's son had had an unfortunate culmination to their relationship, for example...and the rancher coached the son into leaving town to study football and avoid responsibility ...there's any number of possible elements out of sight. As for the border boys, if they were asleep at that particular switch for five years, allowing trunks full of pills to cross unchallenged, I guess the smugglers would grow to expect that, until some new guy shows up with a bright idea about inspecting cars... All you're seeing in a news story like this is the tip of a complex pile of events.

A

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: GUEST,direneed
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 05:13 PM

You used to be able to buy pseudoephedrine pills in bulk from
Green Canyon.com. Does anybody know if this is still possible from this site or give another site.

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Helen
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 05:59 PM

direneed,

I get really mad here in Oz about that. I try to just go into the chemist/pharmacy to buy pseudoephedrine tablets for my nasal congestion. First the government made a rule that they couldn't sell the cheaper packets of 64 anymore so then I started having to buy them in smaller lots for a higher relative price per tablet. Then they made a rule that the chemist has to check my ID and write down my driver's licence number. Then, the last time I went in to buy some, it coincidentally happened to be the day after one of those pseudo-factual, self-styled "hard-hitting, truth-seeking" type non-news shows had shown a packet of the brand which my specialist recommended to me and which I have been buying for years, and showed it with home-chemistry equipment used to make drugs.

I get so sick of being looked at as if I am a closet drug-addict everytime I go in and buy a packet. I also get so sick of having to spend more money for no reason, on a product I have a legitimate use for, to compensate for drug-takers who are stuffing up my life and my quality of health, and for what??

Sorry, rant over. But this has been p***ing me off for years.

Helen

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 06:55 PM

why the &#@*&^ did 'direneed' refresh this? And how did he/she FIND it? And why are you asking HERE how to buy drugs online?

there are places where this sort of discussion takes place regularly--why not find one?

Subject: RE: Maybe some one can answer this question
From: kendall
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 07:31 PM

Having made a career in law enforcement, I'm compelled to say that the law does make sense. However, sometimes people who INTERPRET the law make no sense.
For instance, if a 30 year old man talks a 14 year old girl into running off with him, you might think he could be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Right?
Wrong! You must first prove that the minor was delinquent. It is logical that you can't contribute to something that does not exist.
Also, just because something is illegal in one country doesn't mean it should be illegal in another.