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Origins: The Rose in June

DigiTrad:
ROSE IN JUNE (2)
THE ROSE IN JUNE
THE ROSE IN JUNE
THE ROSE IN JUNE (LET IT BE EARLY, LATE OR SOON)


toadfrog 12 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM
Jeri 12 Jun 01 - 10:28 PM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Jun 01 - 10:32 PM
GUEST 13 Jun 01 - 01:11 AM
Margo 13 Jun 01 - 01:26 AM
Martina Ryan 13 Jun 01 - 06:16 AM
Jeri 13 Jun 01 - 05:54 PM
Anglo 13 Jun 01 - 10:18 PM
toadfrog 13 Jun 01 - 10:32 PM
Martina Ryan 14 Jun 01 - 10:02 AM
IanC 14 Jun 01 - 10:27 AM
Malcolm Douglas 23 Jul 01 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Marc Bernier 15 Jan 02 - 07:55 AM
shanty_steve 15 Jan 02 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,Ian Robb 26 Oct 04 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,Scouse 26 Oct 04 - 12:50 PM
Joe Offer 26 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM
RTim 26 Jan 07 - 03:00 PM
Matthew Edwards 04 Aug 10 - 07:37 AM
GUEST,Ian Robb 31 Aug 10 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Ian Robb 31 Aug 10 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,leeneia 01 Sep 10 - 11:52 AM
GUEST 12 Feb 12 - 11:06 PM
GUEST 12 Feb 12 - 11:13 PM
GUEST,Ryan 13 Feb 12 - 12:03 AM
GUEST,Ryan 31 Mar 12 - 09:51 PM
GUEST,Lucysmum 09 Mar 13 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,Amifrank 10 Mar 13 - 06:35 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROSE IN JUNE
From: toadfrog
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM

Does anyone know more about this song?
This is a sufficiently powerful song so that when I first heard it, I knew I had to learn it by heart. I have searched the DT and Forum for it in vain; unless I goofed really badly it isn't there.

THE ROSE IN JUNE
Traditional
^^
On the rocky coast of Scotland, in a little village there,
There dwelt a man of honor, serving God without a care,
But he was not a man of honor, but a humble fisherman,
Working hard to earn a living, his name was Andrew Davis son.

He was the master of a vessel, and he claimed her as his own.
She was fitted with all was needed. She was called the Rose in June,
And with eager expectation he was waiting for the day
That the time would come for fishing and the boats would sail away.

Now, Andrew had been lately married, and before he left his home,
Andrew and his wife together knelt in prayer before the Throne,
Asking God for His protection on his wife while he was gone,
Praying nothing would befall her, not a danger nor a harm.

And Andrew's wife was kneeling by him, and she heard his fervent prayer
Asking God for her protection, not a word of that for his,
And her heart did sink within her as she rose from her bended knee,
Thinking of those terrible dangers, and those perils of the sea!

Now as the Summer winds blew softly herrin' fishing season came.
Andrew Davis was preparing, herrin' fishing was his game.
Andrew Davis was preparing with his crew to go to sea,
Not thinking t'would be his last time evermore his friends to see.

And all night long the storm was raging, and those angry billows roared,
Many a vessel was tossed and driven all along that rocky shore.
Their crews was clinging to them, all seamen, strong and brave,
Praying that the Lord would save them from a seaman's watery grave.

And all along the coast, next morning, anxious eyes did watch and wait,
The children of those absent seamen, still returning ships was seen.
Till one by one, those vessels sailed in, from morning until noon,
Until all were safely anchored, all but one, the Rose in June.

Whom the seas turned bottom upward, dashed against that rocky shore.
Her crew was clinging to her, thinking the storm would soon be o'er.
Andrew Davis our captain, in that time of sudden fear,
Called on Jesu Christ our Savior, and he bowed his head in prayer.

Sayin' come on and sing God's praises, and at last they all begun.
Dearest Jesus, I am dying, such a comfort divine,
Such a comfort to know that the Savior is mine.
Hallelujah, send the Glory,
Hallelujah, amen.
Hallelujah, send the Glory to revive us again.

But these words were scarcely ended when the out-wave struck our side.
Tore our captain from his holdings, and he sank beneath the tide,
Going to join those friends and shipmates on that heavenly shore,
Welcomed by his lovin' Savior praising God forevermore.

And John Allen was our young mate, and he knew he was forgiven.
Let us keep on with our singing, our captain is in Heaven,
And they sang so loud and trialled [sic], till they came to this last verse:
Slowly onward we haste to the heavenly place,
For this is the glory and this is the grace.
Hallelujah, send the Glory,
Hallelujah, amen.
Hallelujah, send the Glory to revive us again.

But these words were scarcely ended when the out-wave burst around.
Tore our young mate from his holdings and his body too was drowned.
Going to join those friends and shipmates on that heavenly shore,
Welcomed by his lovin' Savior praising God forevermore.

And the rest of the crew was rescued, but they'll ne'er forget that scene,
In the hour and the monent when that song they tried to sing,
Oh! Were no sermon ever preached or experience ever known,
Like the power of that moment, that time of sudden doom!

Oh, sinner give your soul to Jesus, it can never be too soon.
If in heaven you meet the captain, meet the crew of the Rose in June.
Oh, sinner give your soul to Jesus, it can never be too soon.
If in heaven you meet the captain, meet the crew of the Rose in June.

Sung by Louis Killen, on a tape of the same name, with these notes:
This magnificent ballad was collected from Bill Dobbins, in Blas se Blanc, Labrador, by Dr. Kenneth Goldstein. Mr Dobbins learned the song as a young man working in the Newfoundland lumber camps. No versions of this song have yet been found in Scotland . . . . .

JWM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 10:28 PM

I have the same tape somewhere. The song is very powerful and compelling, and I'd love to hear more about it as well.

Lou will be at the "Songs of Sail 2001" festival in Kennebunk Maine this weekend. If I get a chance, I'll ask him about it. (I may also ask him to sing it!)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 10:32 PM

And please do post the tune!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 01:11 AM

Louis Killen has just released it on CD.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Margo
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 01:26 AM

I've been looking for that CD 'cause I lost my tape. Who has it, do you know? Thanks, Margo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Martina Ryan
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 06:16 AM

Thanks a million toadfrog for posting these lyrics. It truely is a magnificent song. I've haven't heard Louis Killen sing it, but Dave Webber and Anni Fentiman have a fantastic version on their Bonnet and Shawl CD. The Chantey Cabin (http://chanteycabin.co.uk/) have this and the Louis Killen CD (also called The Rose in June). Martina


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 05:54 PM

Betcha if the CD can be got, Dick Greenhaus at Camsco can get it if he doesn't already have it. Phone: 800-548-3655


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Anglo
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:18 PM

As indicated above, the song was collected in Labrador by the late Kenny Goldstein, who was a good friend to many an itinerant traddy singer. He picked it as something that would fit Killen's style, and that he would like, and gave it to him. He was right. I believe Dave and Anni got it from LK, though I suppose it's possible they got it elsewhere. Kenny was preparing a book including much of his Labrador collection at the time of his death, in conjunction with the Canadian folklorist Edith Fowke, who died shortly after he did.


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Subject: Tune Add: THE ROSE IN JUNE
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:32 PM

O.k. Malcom, this is the tune, to the best of my ability. Bear in mind I'm but a v. clumsy ABCist.

T:The Rose In June M:4/4
L:1/4
Q:40
C:Traditional
S:Louis Killen
K:C
EFGC|CdCC|GCde|eCCz|GCee|ggee|dCff|ggez|Cegg|gefe|dCdG|defz|edeC|dCBA|CC GG|ABC2||

% ABC2Win Version 2.1 6/13/2001

This tune is that of the repetitious ballad verses. The hymn is distinct. Its contrasting rythm and feel breaks the repetition of the ballad tune, and it seems to me this is what makes the song really interesting. So far as I can ascertain, the hymn is "I am Thine," Salvation Army 739; the words and tune are not available on line. But it bears a close family resemblance to "Revive Us Again," a standard Protestant hymn. Which has exactly the same tune as Hallelujah, I'm a Bum.

Killen's hymn tune is a bit different, and I have no idea whether it was he who changed it, or the Salvation Army, or the person he collected it from. I'm not sure how many people would spot the difference, and unless someone is really interested in the hymn tune, I will let it go.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: Martina Ryan
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 10:02 AM

Apparently, Dave Webber learned this from both Louis Killen and someone I'm not familiar with called David Jones, a Londoner now resident in New Jersey. This might explain the slightly different lyrics that Dave sings in every verse. In particular, Dave and Anni repeat the second verse of the hymn again at the end of the song. This is very worthwhile, as the hymn is gorgeous.

Martina


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Subject: Lyr Add: ROSE IN JUNE
From: IanC
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 10:27 AM

This may not really be the right place but I thought I'd post the other "Rose in June" lyrics here as well, as they don't seem to be in DT or to have previously been referred to in the forum. Versions have been sung by Cyril Tawney and (I think) by Bob Arnold (who played Tom Forrest in "The Archers") as well as by The Coppers, I think. The tune is a pretty waltz.

ROSE IN JUNE ^^

Was down in the valleys, the valleys so deep,
To pick some plain roses to keep my love sweet.
So let it come early, late or soon,
I will enjoy my rose in June.

O, the roses red, the violets blue,
Carnations sweet, love and so are you,
So let it come early, late or soon,
I will enjoy my rose in June.

O love, I will carry thy sweet milking pail,
O love, I will kiss you on every stile
So let it come early, late or soon,
I will enjoy my rose in June.

Cheers!
Ian


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROSE IN JUNE (LET IT BE EARLY, LATE..
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 12:20 PM

Well, why not; it's a nice song.  That version appeared in Bob Copper's Songs and Southern Breezes, which I don't have.  Here's another set, which I was going to post at the time, but evidently forgot about:

THE ROSE IN JUNE (LET IT BE EARLY, LATE OR SOON)

The rose in June's not half so sweet
As kisses where true lovers meet,
So let it be early, late or soon,
I'll enjoy my rose in June.

Then I will drive my flock to the fold,
Let the weather blow warm or cold,
So let it be early, late or soon,
I'll enjoy my rose in June.

Then I'll cut down the sweet myrtle tree
To make a fine bower for Sally and me,
So let it be early, late or soon,
I'll enjoy my rose in June.

This version was noted by Cecil Sharp from John Vincent (72) at Priddy, Somerset, 25th April 1906.

The following text is from a broadside printed between 1813 and 1838 by J. Catnach of 2 " 3, Monmouth Court, Seven Dials:

Some idly throughout spend their time,
Not to enjoy their rose in prime,
Let it be early, late or soon,
I will enjoy my rose in June.


The violets make the meadows smell sweet
None with my roses are complete,

Primroses make the meadows look neat,
None with my roses are complete.

Cowslips make the meadows look fair,
None with my roses can compare.

Of every sweet flower that grows,
None can compare to my blooming rose.

"can compete" might usefully be substituted in either verse 2 or 3, but none of the copies I've seen have it.  The original, together with several others -all very similar textually- can be seen at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads.

A midi of John Vincent's tune goes to  The Mudcat Midi Pages;  meanwhile, it can be heard via the  South Riding Folk Network  site:

The Rose in June


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Subject: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Marc Bernier
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 07:55 AM

Anyone have the lyrics to this Louis Killen song handy? I wrote them out a couple years ago and can't seem to find them. Thank You Marc Bernier


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose in June
From: shanty_steve
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 09:01 AM

Hi Marc,

It's in this thread (above-threads combined - JoeO). The search facility for relatively recent threads in the forum doesn't appear to be working properly. The Rose in June is such a good song.

Stephen


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Ian Robb
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:24 PM

Just a couple of extra words about the Labrador-collected Rose in June. First of all, my old pal Louis Killen must have imposed some Geordie phonetics on the French name of Bill Dobbins's home town. There is no such place as "Blas se blanc". His home was Blanc-Sablon, on the north shore of the Strait of Belle Isle, near the Québec-Labrador border, but actually in the province of Québec on my map. Dr Goldstein's widow Rochelle recently showed me a listing of his work which confirmed this.

Another version of the same song was collected in 1958 by Kenneth Peacock in Rocky Harbour, Newfoundland, from a singer called Lawrence Hutchins. This version, text and tune, can be found in the National Library of Canada. It has only one verse of the interposed hymn, and it is noted as a "prayer", which seems to indicate that it was spoken rather than sung.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Scouse
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:50 PM

seem to remember the dransfield using the words to the latter version of "Rose in June." on one of their Lp's. am I right??? As Aye, Phil.


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: The Rose in June
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM

I came across this thread while on a spam-clearing expedition. I found only two recordings of "Rose in June" - on June Tabor's Rosa Mundi, and on Dave Webber & Anni Fentiman's Bonnet & Shawl. Is there a Louis Killen recording, or any others?
-Joe-
Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on the Copper Family song titled "Rose in June":

    Rose in June

    DESCRIPTION: "Was down in the valleys, the valleys so deep, To pick some plain roses to keep my love sweet, So let it come early, late or soon, I will enjoy my rose in June." "O, the roses are red, the violets blue." "O love, I will carry the sweet milking pail."
    AUTHOR: unknown
    EARLIEST DATE: 1973
    KEYWORDS: love courting flowers lyric
    FOUND IN: Britain(England(South))
    REFERENCES (1 citation):
    Copper-SoBreeze, pp. 256-257, "Rose in June" (1 text, 1 tune)
    Roud #1202
    File: CoSB256

    Go to the Ballad Search form
    Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
    Go to the Bibliography
    Go to the Discography

    The Ballad Index Copyright 2011 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


Roud Index Search


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: The Rose in June
From: RTim
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:00 PM

Is seems to depend upon which Rose in June you mean?

Ian Robb has recorded the song about the Fishing boat on his "Jiig" CD on Fallen Angle, and I recorded the one about love ("I'll harness my horses and follow the plough" etc) ie "Love in June", which is what I call it, on my Home from Home CD also on Fallen Angle.

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: The Rose in June
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 07:37 AM

I've been listening to Jon Boden on his site 'A Folk Song a Day' singing The Rose in June, and although I think I may have heard it elsewhere, Jon's format gives this song a real chance to stand out.

So with the help of Google, and some kind people at Fishing Boat Heritage, who know a great deal about the Scottish fishing industry, I've been able to find out something about the story behind this very powerful song. The newspaper accounts don't mention any hymn singing by the crew, and we still have to discover how the story turned up in Newfoundland.

The Rose in June was a 7 year-old 15 ton lugger registered at Kirkcaldy, Captain Andrew Davidson, on her way from St Monance to Elie in the East Neuk of Fife when she capsized outside Elie Harbour at one o'clock in the morning of Tuesday 17 December 1872. The master and owner, Andrew Davidson, and crew member, John Allan, were both swept overboard and drowned. The boat drifted on shore where the remaining crew of four men were rescued through the surf with lines and belts by fishermen on the shore. The bodies of the two men were found next day and taken home to St Monance. Andrew Davidson was 35, and he left a widow and three children, while John Allan was 22 and unmarried. The rescuers William Marr, Thomas Fernie, William Warrender, Walker Thomson, Jas.Corrybear, Andrew Lowrie, Alex. Meldrum, Jas. Warrender, William Thomson, J.Innes Davidson and Alex. Innes all received awards out of the Mercantile Marine Fund.
This was a big North Sea storm, lasting several days, and which caused much loss of ships and men all along the East Coast.

See 19th Century British Library Newspapers:
Dundee Courier & Argus; 18 Dec 1872, and 19 Dec 1872.
Glasgow Herald; 19 Dec 1872.

Scotlands Places; Rose in June, Elie, Firth of Forth

Thanks especially to Douglas Paterson, and aavh at Trawler Photos Forum.

Matthew


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Ian Robb
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 10:43 AM

The name of the town that Bill Dobbins lived in when Kenny Goldstein visited is most likely "Blanc Sablon". The name somehow became phonetically translated in the liner notes. Blanc Sablon is actually in the province of Quebec, right on the Quebec-Labrador border, on the north shore of the Gulf of St Lawrence. There is a ferry route from BS to Newfoundland.


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Ian Robb
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 11:44 AM

Not to be too much of a nitpicker, but correcting my post above, it seems the singer's name was actually Bill Dobbin without the "s".

Last November, after a wonderful visit to St John's, NL, I received a long email from Anna Kearney Guigne, a folklorist with the Dept. of Music at Memorial University, Newfoundland. She had kindly dug up all she knew about the song including other versions of the song found in Newfoundland and a couple of fragments. She also pointed me to a commercial cassette recording that Mr Dobbin had made in the 90s.

Anna writes "...a singer named Bill Dobbin who performs a rather long version of the song on a cassette tape named "The Dainty: Traditional Music as sung by Bill Dobbin." The tape was independently produced by SWC productions English Harbour West (Bud Davidge fame) about 10 years ago. Bud says that the fellow came from around the Corner Brook area but remembers little else about him."

I'm thinking it's likely that Mr Dobbin moved to Blanc Sablon for work, and may have returned to the Island later. The University Folklore Archives confirm that Goldsten found him in Blanc Sablon.

I contacted Bud Davidge (a well known singer and songwriter on the Island), who was very helpful and sent me a CD copy of the tape, which is mostly Newfoundland songs accompanied by a Country Western style band. Yes, even the eight minute long "Rose in June".

Finally a mea culpa from me. When I recorded the song, a few things just didn't seem to sit right, so I applied a bit of folk processing. I make no apologies for that, but I must acknowledge that I completed the renaming of the captain to "Andrew Davis" in the first verse. The Dobbin version has "Andrew Davidson" in the first verse, and renames him later in the song. And that's how my old and dear pal Louis (now Louisa) Killen recorded it. From Matthew Edwards's post and the Dundee newspaper article, it's clear that "Davidson" it should probably have remained, and damn the scansion. On the other hand, one should never let the facts get in the way of a good song...

This has been a really interesting hunt, and thanks once again to Matthew for unearthing the truth,


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Subject: RE: Req/ADD: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 11:52 AM

In 2001, IanC posted these words:

ROSE IN JUNE ^^

Was down in the valleys, the valleys so deep,
To pick some plain roses to keep my love sweet.
So let it come early, late or soon,
I will enjoy my rose in June...

and said that the tune is a pretty waltz.

I would like to hear that 'pretty waltz'. Link, MIDI, abc, whatever anyone may have.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: The Rose in June
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 11:06 PM

I here's the Newfoundland version I know:
The lyrics work nicer to the tune, and there isn't an overbearing number of christian overones.


On the rocky coast of Newfoundland, in a little village there,
There was an Andrew Davison, serving God with all his care,
But he was not a man of rightous, but a humble fisherman,
Working hard to make a living on, on-the coast of Newfoundland.

He was the master of a vessel, and he claimed her for his own.
She was fitted to the mast sail. She was called the Rose in June,
And with eager expectation, looking forward t'ward the day
That the time would come for fishing and, and-the boats would sail away.

Now, Andrew had been married, and before he left his home,
Andrew and his wife together knelt in prayer before the Throne,
Asking God for His protection, and in the silence of the moon,
that not a Newfoundlander, would meet their water'doom.

That long night the storm was raging, and those angry billows roared,
Many vessels tossed and driven, all along that rocky shore.
Their crews all clinging to them, tossing onwards through the waves,
the fog had now been rolling in, lost in a seaward haze.

All along the coast next morning, waiting eyes did look to sea,
The children of those sailing men, the returning boats were seen.
One by one they entered the harbour, from morning until noon,
Until all were safely anchored, all except the Rose in June.

Whom the seas turned bottom upward, dashed against that rocky shore.
Her crew all clinging to her, thinking the storm would soon be o'er.
Andrew Davis was in trouble, looking forward to their ruin,
with the crew all hanging too her awaiting for their doom.

[There is a stanze and a half here in which I'm not sure of the lyrics, will find out later when re-anaylising the cassette.]

That Every Newfoundlander, has lost a Rose in June.
That Every Newfoundlander, has lost a Rose in June.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: The Rose in June
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 11:13 PM

The version I just posted above would be from a Cassette titled "The Rose in June" By George Westcott. It was published somewhere in the late '80's early '90s, so it bears a strong feeling of Simani as did all Newfoundland artists from that era (like Brian Finn). George Westcott is not listed on Tidespoint or GEST Songs of Newfoundland and Labrador, which is the most extensive library of Newfoundland and Irish Music outside of the Memorial University Archives, So I wouldn't call it a stretch to say its a rare recording.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Ryan
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 12:03 AM

An alternate(and more common) verse of this stanza:
Now, Andrew had been married, and before he left his home,
Andrew and his wife together knelt in prayer before the Throne,
Asking God for His protection, and in the silence of the moon,
that not a Newfoundlander, would meet their water'doom.

is:

Now, Andrew had been married, and before he left his home,
Andrew and his wife together knelt in prayer before the Throne,
Asking God for His protection, that before he left his home,
to save him from the perils and, the dangers of the foam.

An Alternate take of this also exists, and I believe it is sung in the George Westcott version that I have still been unable to look at because I'm too drunk at the moment:
Whom the seas turned bottom upward, dashed against that rocky shore.
Her crew all clinging to her, thinking the storm would soon be o'er.
Andrew Davis was in trouble, looking forward to their ruin,
with the crew all hanging too her awaiting for their doom.

And in the bashing of the sea storm, the Rose in June went down,
Gliding softly toward the bottom, without a single sound.
In the stillness of the water, in the silence of the moon,
Oh, Every Newfoundlander Has lost a Rose in June.
Yes, Every Newfoundlander has lost a Rose in June.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Ryan
Date: 31 Mar 12 - 09:51 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqR-4nogWAk is the Address to the recording I finally have set up of the whole cassette. The Rose in June is Track 1, my lyrics above were false.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Lucysmum
Date: 09 Mar 13 - 03:32 AM

We heard Jon Biden sing this last night in Pontardawe. Very moving & beautiful.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Rose in June
From: GUEST,Amifrank
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 06:35 PM

Boden's version has been put on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ykJ2k6WFNI


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