BS: showman v. musician

Subject: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,Janice in NJ
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:34 AM

My brother Warren likes to say, "There are showmen and there are musicians. The best thing to be is both, but if you had to choose, it's better to be a showman." By that he means it's better to be able to put on a performance that the audience eats up, even if your musical skills are only adequate, than to be technically very accomplished but not terribly interesting, The latter, Warren claims, "are a dime a dozen."

In the hallowed category of being both a showman and a musician, Warren puts both the late John Hartford and the late Steve Goodman. I agree. In the other two categories, Warren says there are simply too many names to mention any. But I will risk proposing a few that I have actually seen and heard in person. Don't all jump on me at once!

Showmen:
The Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem
Jesse Fuller
Johnny Cash

Musicians: The Earl Scruggs Revue

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 07:05 AM

I think Warren is 100% correct. It seems grossly unfair, but there are some people who are just more charismatic than others - and they are the people that are a pleasure to watch & listen to. Its the magic X factor holy grail thing that is absolutely fascinating & usually defies catagorising.
I love trying to work out what it is that the showmen do that is special.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 07:12 AM

Without mentioning names, I've heard many folk musicians who make listening to folk music just slightly more bearable than going to the dentist. I've also heard too many folk musicians... especially some bands where the musicians seem so intent on cracking themselves up that they ignore the audience. It's as if the audience is being "allowed" to listen in on a private jam session. Too much background on songs, right down to record labels is generally boring, too. But most of all, folk musicians should at least look like they're having a good time singing the music. After all, people are paying to hear you sing, and they come to have a good time. I think your brother Warren is right. Somewhere in the middle is best, though.
Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 07:19 AM

Showman? Ramblin' Jack. I mean there are thousands of better pickers and singers, but there is only one Ramblin' Jack. Contrast that to a friend of his, Arlo. Arlo is both in spades. A tremendous player and one helluva' showman.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 07:25 AM

None of this really applies to solo guitarists. If the guitarist is good enough, the music speaks for itself, if not, then all the showmanship in the world won't compensate.

I would refer to the esteemed Tony McManus. Nobody would ever describe him as a showman, but few people come away from his performances without feeling stunned and exhilarated, simply by the beauty force and energy of the music.

For lesser mortals, however, I would agree that showmanship is a vital component of performance.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 10:10 AM

When it comes to Folk Singing, showmanship definitely needs to come to the fore. I can think of many wondeful singers whose voices weren't outstanding, but whose delivery and charisma made their singing wonderful. With instrumentalists, perhaps it not always so important, although when both skills are combined the result is the product rather than the total of them. I remember listening to the late Seamus Ennis playing his pipes and telling his stories. The combination was magic (often in more ways than one).

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,SlickerBill
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 02:09 PM

The thing that gets me is the best showmen look as if its effortless. i mean people who try too hard...yechh. But good showmen seem to be able to let the songs shine, and then in between, make the audience feelwarmly invited, some sort of affinity to the performer, but so naturally, you know? I usually try to just be myself when I'm up there, but when you're "up there" it often feels like its not enough somehow. Is it personality? or is it practice? Great thread! SB

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 02:20 PM

With performers who are really focused on the music, the showmanship really comes from the musical technique--it can be overbearing stuff, such as the machine-gun pentatonic arpeggios favored by speed-metal guitarists, or it can be an understated melodic phrase, capped with a subtle but surprising chord--in this area, Murray, you can confidently say of Tony McManus, "My Man Counts!"--

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Gomez
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 03:26 PM

'Scuse my igorance but I have not heard of Tony McManus. If he has recorded CDs, can someone please give me an album title? I fear I am missing something.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 03:52 PM

I can't disagree with much that has been written here. Of course, it is great if the entertainer has both the musical skills and the communicative skills to put it over. I have always regarded good showmanship as a skill that can be worked on too. Of course, when everything works well it looks easy, but I think there are a lot of factors involved in making you look confident and accessible to the audience.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:08 PM

I've never been a "Front" person. I've always preferred to sit back and play a lead, sing a harmony, and laugh at the "Front" person's jokes. I'm a bit too chicken to be a really good front person as it takes the ability to risk it all and come out entertaining.

I'm also not a fabulous musician either - I do OK but have a long way to go to claim any ability to "Wow" anyone.

What I am is a great back porch picker and singer. And to my way of thinking a great performer/musician is someone who can take the back porch and put it on a stage. At least in the Old Timey/Folk/Bluegrass realm.

I also don't know who Tony McManus is but have a feeling he's someone worth listening to. The one person I wish I could have seen play and perform was Uncle Dave Macon. They say he was impossible to record due to the dancing and moving around while he played -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:16 PM

You have to be a hell of a musician to outdo a showman. Sad, but true.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:24 PM

Tony McManus is Scottish guitarist who has become something of a cause here at Mudcat--his work is available on Culburnie Records, I believe,and Murray will be able, and more than happy, to recommend more specifically--

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:30 PM

Tony McManus is a gifted Scottish guitarist who has lately risen to eminence (dare I say pre-eminence), in the world of Crltic guitar music.

You can check out his website, here Tony McManus. I see he now has MP3's available, not before time ....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: ddw
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:32 PM

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Just look at all forms of music and see who rises to the top. Are the members of KISS extraordinary musicians? I don't think so. But they're sure as hell showmen. Whether you like the show or not is too personal to say much about.

Same goes for classical music. Lots of performers can PLAY Rachminanoff's 2nd Piano Concerto, but you should WATCH Vladimir Askanazy play it. Fantastic!

In folk music, one of the finest performers I know of us Tom Lewis. His musical skills are nothing to write home about (he plays ukelele at the rhythmic plunk level), but he can get an audience on its feet any time he wants to.

Gangs of other examples out there, but to me the point seems too obvious to bother going on.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:34 PM

And what M.Ted said earlier about the music being the showmanship...he expressed it perfectly.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:40 PM

Here are a few folkies from my all time fave list:

Andy M. Stewart

Ronnie Gilbert & Holly Near

Celtic Fiddle Festival

Arlo alone or with a cast of thousands

Four Bitchin' Babes

Ditto Christine Lavin!

The above always make me laugh, cry, and feel like they've connected with me on a level mere musicians will never be able to do. Even Tony McManus.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 06:53 PM

I think the "Kiss" example says it all. Gene can REALLY sing, but would he have made it big w/o the tongue ?

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Gomez
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 07:40 PM

The term "showman" seems to bring folk music into the realms of "show biz" and maybe that is appropriate. I don't know. I have seen some brilliant musicians and singers at local clubs who do not necessarily charm the audience with their personalities but have delivered their performances beautifully. I might very much enjoy but soon forget an evening of good showmanship but a well-done original interpretation of a good song stays with me a very long time.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 09:44 PM

Tony McManus, as well as being a brilliant guitarist, has a very dry wit, and can be an hilarious showman, As can his sometime partner, Alastair Fraser, one of the world's greatest Scottish fiddlers, and a helluva showman. Victor Borge - my all time favorite - is both. Roy Clark, John hartford.

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 10:51 PM

There are performers and there are entertainers. I prefer to be an entertainer. A good friend of mine is an outstanding performer. He prefers to have the house totally dark so he cant see anyone. I like to be able to see the first three or four rows, and involve them like I would in my living room. Or theirs. You should see Ken Hicks in person. He is a master at this. Maybe you dont know the name, but, he wrote "This is a song for all the good people". It's on the Folk Legacy reunion CD, sung by our own Sandy Paton.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 11:21 PM

Seamus, I am delighted to hear that Tony has blossomed into a showman. I would agree that he has always had a "dry wit", but I have to confess I have difficulty envisaging him ever being "hilarious" (unlike his kilted compatriot who, as you say is indeed a master showman.)

However, it's been over three years since I last saw the boy play, so he his stagecraft may well have come on a bundle in the interim. His guitar playing certainly hasn't. It has always been perfect.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: ddw
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 12:34 AM

Another example occurred to me that I think speaks to this question,

I went to a concert a few months ago of John McDermott with "special guest" Eric Bogle. There is no question which man has the superior musical ability — McDermott has fantastic pipes.

But after the concert everybody I talked to raved more about Bogle (who only did a few songs and some very entertaining explanations of why he wrote the) than about John McD. I think it was a perfect example of the difference between being a showman, an entertainer, and just being an excellent musician.

davd

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Mudlark
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 01:18 AM

This is a very timely thread...for today I met for the first time the Hospice organizer who has set me up with my convalescent home gigs. I am not only not an entertainer, I'm not even a performer...I love music, love certain songs, and attempt to play and sing them with heart, but have rarely performed in front of a lot of people, am, like Steve, a back porch player. However, I really like the people in these places, connect with them, say hi, give them hugs, then just get on with it....sing my songs, working in stuff they can sing along with.

Today, Chris, the organizer, came to sing with me. Well...he is definitely an entertainer, a professional musician with a stage presence, total self confidence, and flair. He was all OVER the place, one minute down on his knee singing to one old lady, then jumping around with a plastic rose in his teeth...OY! The old ladies loved him ("this is more fun than we've had in a long time!"). It was a one-time shot for him, but I have the sinking feeling that for all my subsequent visits they are going to be thinking ..."when is that cute GUY coming back????"

For myself, I love a good entertainer as well as the next person, sing along, laugh, whatever. But the performances I remember, the ones that I cherish, feel so lucky to have been priveledged to see in person, have been by performers who cared about their material above all.

Very intersting thread...

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 08:37 AM

I appreciate musical brilliance in a performer as much as the next person. But really, performing for an audience, in my mind, means you should care as much about your audience as you do your material. Otherwise, can't you just play brilliantly without performing for an audience?

As an audience member, I don't think there is anything worse than a gifted musician who plays brilliantly being aloof, remote, or (and I've seen this one a lot among folkies) downright contemptuous of the audience's "lack of appreciation for their gift."

I understand that musicians have high standards for the musical performance. But to value technical proficiency above stage presence in a performer? Sorry, that is too bitter a pill to swallow for me, both as a frequent audience member, and as a performer.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 09:03 AM

I don't think that contempt for one's audience is something that is found "a lot" among folkies, Guest. I can think of only one performer, a long-time household name on the Scottish folk scene (and a brilliant musician) , who irritates me by his off-hand attitude towards his audience. He probably reckons that because they are all disciples he can treat them like shit, or maybe he just doesn't realize how irritating his stage act is.

But other than that, I have never had the feeling that any performer I have seen was being condescending to the audience, neither in Britain nor in America.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 09:19 AM

Murray, I appreciate that your experiences as an audience member have been different from mine.

Again, whether any of us has seen arrogant folk performers isn't the crux of this issue for me. Rather, my point about the importance of balancing the technical side of performing with the stage presence/performance aspect, is what matters most. To me, the best performing musicians DO take the audience into account, and spend a good amount of time and energy honing their performance skills and creating a memorable stage presence.

Of course, I am speaking of professional musicians who make a living on concert stages, not professional musicians who make a living playing the pub/bar circuits. I don't hold those types of music acts to the same standards as I do performing artists on a stage, where the performance is the only attraction. At pubs and bars, there is a lot more going on, and so a different dynamic is in effect.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 09:22 AM

PS--and I hope my above remarks won't be interpreted to mean that performers in bars/pubs don't need stage presence and performing skills, or that they shouldn't work to develop them. My point is, it is a somewhat different sort of "stage presence" which comes across well in a bar/pub, which may or may not translate onto the concert stage, depending on the artist/s.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 10:29 AM

Hmmmm. I'll have to think on this one some more.....

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,SlickerBill
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 03:16 PM

Okay then, given that showmanship is something that can be developed and honed, what are some good rules to follow? Yes, everyone brings their own set of traits to the stage, but surely there are some "do's" and "don'ts" that one could keep in mind. What is it that satisfies you when watching a performer, and what things bother you?

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 09:50 PM

The ultimate performing no-no for me , is when the performer, from the stage, makes a personal remark to someone in the audience whom s/he knows but whom the audience doesn't know from Adam. That really makes me cringe. At any level from pub to concert hall.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 09:03 AM

Well, I'll go first with the "what satisfies and what doesn't" from an audience point of view.

Great storytelling is a big hit with me, hence some of fave performers being people like Christine Lavin, Arlo Guthrie, and Andy M. Stewart. I love a good story better than a good joke. To me, it seems pretty easy to be able to memorize a couple of jokes and throw them out into the audience at regular intervals. I'm not impressed with jokes to the extent that I am with a witty remark or comeback to audience banter.

One thing which makes me uncomfortable(and I fear I sound cruel, but this really is true about me) are really shy performers who don't interact with the audience. Now, most pros who suffer this problem (Allison Krause comes to mind), generally get a bit better at it over the years as they become more accustomed to being on a concert stage. So I guess developing poise, especially if you are shy and tend not to interact with the audience, is important to me as an audience member. It is just too painful for me to watch shy/withdrawn performers.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 09:19 AM

"None of this really applies to solo guitarists. If the guitarist is good enough, the music speaks for itself, if not, then all the showmanship in the world won't compensate" --Murray MacLeod

Far be it from me to be contrary *wink wink* ...I've seen Two excellent guitarists who show that this contrast still holds up -- even when the music should "speak for itself"

Pat Donohue in concert is an excellent showman, excellent musician. El McMeen is an excellent musician and a wonderful gentleman with an easy stage presence -- but not a showman. I believe that El appeals to other guitarists but Pat appeals to guitarists and non alike.

I certainly won't argue that all the showmanship in the world won't compensate (completely) for poor musicianship -- just that excellent musicianship without good showmanship will leave an audience cold -- even with solo guitar.

Another excellent musician/showman? Catfish Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 09:58 AM

Suzanne Vega is someone who fits into the attitude category--I was a big fan of her records--loved her voice, and thought(and think) that she was one of the few truly great songwriters to come around--saw her in concert and found her stage manner so cold and condescending that I didn't even want to listen to recordings anymore--

Murray--did you like my anagram?

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,SlickerBill
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 10:11 AM

Bruce Cocburn is someone who comes to mind as a performer who really has worked at his showmanship. I've been to many concerts, and he seems like a really shy guy who chooses to communicate mainly through his instrument and lyrics, but that's not enough for most audiences. Gradually he has seemed to come out of his shell. But typically it'll take him 3 or 4 tunes before he says anything at all. And he does have wit.

A guy like Stephen Fearing meanwhile, has a terrific knack for stories and observations, all while retuning his guitar.

In terms of peeves though, I think the thing that often makes me cringe is a performer apologizing on stage. I'm actually not sure why, but it just hits me like fingernails on a chalkboard. Maybe it's the shyness thing, where one feels one really isn't worthy and so they exude this "I'm nothing attitude". SB

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Maryrrf
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 12:01 PM

This is a good thread. I would like to know more about "what works and what doesn't" on stage. Personal gripes - when the performer picks on people in the audience and not in a nice way. Example: Somebody gets up to go to the restroom. Performer calls attention to the fact and says in a sing song voice "I know where you're going". When the unfortunate person comes back he asks "Did everything come out allright?" Certainly here I'm talking about a pub, not a concert hall.

I also hate it when the performer goes overboard about forcing audience participation. "Let's try that again!" "That was terrible" "Come on clap! What's the matter with you folks".

I'm working hard to overcome my shyness and I usually try to give some historical background info on the songs, without going into too much detail. Most of the audience seems to enjoy it but I have gotten negative comments "What are you, a history teacher". I guess you can't please everyone.

Anyway, let's keep the ideas coming!

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 02:24 PM

Ted, I have to confess your wonderfully appropriate anagram passed right by me. How obtuse can one man be ....?

I think I agree with everything said on this thread so far, both the yeas and the nays ..... I hate the forced participation bit too, and it is even worse when the performer has written a new song and tries to get the audience to sing along with a chorus which turns out to be totally unsingable.

"Oh Wad some gift the giftie gie' us
Tae see oorsels as ithers see us"

Just thought I would throw in an apposite Burns quotation, since nobody else here seems to have remembered that tonight is Burns Night ....

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM

Well Murray, if might help if you would remember it is only Burns Night in Scotland (and in Scottish communities) it might make more sense to you that those of us who are Franco American (or any ethnicity other than Scottish) aren't losing sleep over it not getting mentioned in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: lamarca
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 02:49 PM

I have a different viewpoint - I find myself mystified by the popularity of people or groups who are ALL show and very little musicianship. There is a certain kind of performer, whether rock or folk or country, whose shows are sometimes good theater, or audience participation, but who sing and play out of tune, out of tempo, etc. The music seems to be secondary (or less) to the shtick. I find that kind of show painful to listen to, no matter how funny or entertaining the performers try to be.

I think that even people who could be good musically sometimes stop trying after they gain a following. I was working on setting up the DC Irish Festival behind the Filene Center when I heard Crosby, Stills and Nash a few years ago, and they were HORRIBLE - they were badly out of tune with each other's voices and instruments and had obviously not bothered rehearsing for a while. They still sold out Wolf Trap to their baby-boomer audience, though. There's a local folk group (who shall remain nameless) here that has a big following - each of the members is talented musically, but their ensemble numbers tend to be loud, unintelligible and off key - and their fans still eat it up.

My question is WHY? Am I just hyper-critical? I think it's disrespectful of your audience to be capable of playing and singing well, but not bothering because "it's too much work and besides, they love our stage show..." From the size of the audiences for these kinds of performers, my point of view is in the minority...

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 02:57 PM

No, not hypercritical at all Lamarca. But then, I don't think the acts people are using as examples in this thread fall in the category you mention, either. Just using two of my examples, Arlo Guthrie and Andy M. Stewart--both are excellent musicians and excellent entertainers. I don't think any of us are suggesting we should aspire to being Jennifer Lopez.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 03:55 PM

Murray, you have other strong points--and, thank you for reminding me of Burns Night, it had barely even registered with me that we are in year 2002--GUEST, we'll let you know when it is "Spaghetti and Stars" night--

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Jan 02 - 04:39 PM

Tony McManus has two CDs out on the Greentrax label. Available at CAMSCO Music, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,Janice in NJ
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 05:56 PM

With no new messages in three days, it appears that this thread has played itself out. Both Warren and I appreciate the comments. Thank you one and all.

I would like to add that one of my favorite local performers is someone who is all showman. His guitar playing is pretty ordinary and his vocal ability is nothing to write home about, but can he hold an audience! From the moment he goes on stage to the moment he says "thank you" and steps off he is pure energy, and he transfers much of that energy to his listeners. Before they know it they are whooping, shouting, clapping, and sometimes dancing. And he gets everyone involved, little kids, old ladies, stage crew, gate keepers, I mean everyone.

As my brother said, it's best to be both a showman and a musician. But if I were forced to choose, I'd rather hear a showman like than any day.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 06:36 PM

This is a music forum, so I doubt that we will have many Kiss, N Sync or Garth Brooks fans here. Obviously a lot of people are more interested in the show, the "music" is just something that supports the show.

It is nice when you can find the combination of both. I was pleasantly surprised the first time I saw Jethro Tull Live. I was a long time fan of the band, and was really looking forward to hearing them perform it live. But what a show. Ian Anderson is one of the most captivating performers I've ever seen.

On our local scene (Toronto), Paul James does a very good job of doing both. He is a very fine player, but he has a lot of theatrics (playing behind his head, walking up to the bar while playing, ordering a beer while not missing a note, taking a sip and then playing slide with the beer bottle) that people who may not appreciate how good a musician he is talk about on the way home from the show. However, Paul had been on the Toronto scene for about 25 years and has never really made it out of the bars. I think this type of performance kind of limits his market. (For you Toronto area Blues Fans, if you ever see a Paul James acoustic gig advertised, go. It's just him and a few acoustics doing some very nice Robert Johnson, early Dylan, Bo Diddley and several originals that fit right in. No Theatrics, just some very good acoustic music)

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: JudeL
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:59 AM

I think there is often a divide between those who you enjoy seeing live because of something in their performance/showmanship/interaction with an audience or just the extra energy that is in a live performance, but their recordings just don't reflect that; and those who's recordings are wonderful and you listen to them again and again but have no stage presence whatever and after seeing them once to discover this you don't bother again.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Justa Picker
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:20 PM

David Bromberg - BOTH!

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 03:29 PM

JP you said it !!

David Bromberg was (is) gifted with an unparalleled combination of onstage charisma and musical virtuosity.

Simply the best.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 07:08 PM

I try to do both when I perform and generally get mixed responses from my audiences, most seem to enjoy it and some can't. I'm not a monster soloist and don't pretend to be. I can get by but if I need a soloist for a show and I can afford it, I just hire someone to help me out. I enjoy using intros to songs as a way of making nonmusical contact with my audience and try to make that part of my performances as entertaining as possible. Some venues are better for this than others. Concert type shows are my favorite and seem to work best for stories and the like. Other, noisier places usually only seem to want a sonic wallpaper performance. It's a good idea to try and understand what is needed in each case and apply yourself accordingly. Neither type of show is better, they're just different. Some like to entertain with just music and others with just showmanship still others with various degrees of both. It's difficult at best, maybe even impossible to please everyone. You can please some of the people most of the time and most of the people some of the time but you can't have yer cake and eat the gooey filling too.... Or can you?

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,SlickerBill
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 01:35 PM

One guy that just came to mind is Jack Semple (from Regina, I think.) soft spoken guy, but the audience just catches this nice, frienly vibe from the guy. But he's simply one of the best guitarists I've seen in ages. Totally fingerstyle Strat, and it's simply amazing. the guy doesn't get his due in Canada; all too ga-ga over nellie Furtado et al; all show, reasonable talent, but nowhere close to the music of a guy like Jack. Ah but who sez life was fair? SB

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,Janice in NJ
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 06:00 PM

JudeL put it pefectly: "I think there is often a divide between those who you enjoy seeing live because of something in their performance/showmanship/interaction with an audience or just the extra energy that is in a live performance, but their recordings just don't reflect that; and those who's recordings are wonderful and you listen to them again and again but have no stage presence whatever and after seeing them once to discover this you don't bother again."

I go to hear showmen live; I listen to musicians' CDs. When they are both, I do both. I can't say it any clearer than that.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: GUEST,Steve N.
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 04:46 PM

"None of this really applies to solo guitarists. If the guitarist is good enough, the music speaks for itself, if not, then all the showmanship in the world won't compensate" --Murray MacLeod Not true! I am more in agreement with John Hardly. A BIG part of the "showmanship" is giving the music "feeling", not just playing the right notes! Saw a double-bill with two technically excellent players, Chris Proctor and Harvey Reid. Proctor was boring and dry...almost "academic", while Reid was warm and exciting. Both played good notes....one gave the notes depth and feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: showman v. musician
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 10:13 PM

I'm bringing this dormant thread back to life to say that Sonia Rutstein (formerly of Disappear Fear) is certainly both. Does anyone else feel that way?