BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense

Subject: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: GUEST,John Crosby
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 05:26 AM

Apologies if I shouldn't be asking this, but;

I'm trying to find out the origin of the phrase "Stuff and Nonsense"

If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 05:44 AM

I'm with you, John. It's a lovely expression, lent extra poignance by French and Saunders in the Shire Hearties TV sketch, when one had accidentally cut off two fingers. The other asked what the poor love had done, who replied "Stuff and nonsense, I threw them to the dogs!"

Sorry though, I can't answer this one.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:06 AM

I just searched a bunch of my bookmarks for this and found nothing. I don't have time for more, at the moment, but here is another site with a bunch of etymology links you might look through: click here.

This should be fun. Thanks for asking!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM

From Dickens, "Chuzzlewit": "Why, wot do you mean to say that chit's been a-doin' of?' retorted Mrs Gamp, sharply.
'Stuff and nonsense, Mrs Sweedlepipes!'"

Stuff has always had a secondary meaning as "worthless matter, junk", etc.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:39 PM

More stuff and nonsense- where does 'the tables have turned' come from? Thanks for the link, kat- interesting.

Could 'tables', etc, come from math? Such as 9 x 3= 36, versus 3 x 9= ?

Eb

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:47 PM

Ebbie, from Brewers Phrase and Fable:

"The phrase comes from the old custom of reversing the table or board, in games such as chess or draughts, so that the opponent's relative position is altogether changed."

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:07 PM

Thanks, Jon!

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM

In medieval times the table-top was reversible. For everyday use the rough, scuffed side was used, but when you had important visitors you turned it over and revealed the smooth, shiny, polished side. (No tablecloths in those days, just bare boards).

That's what they'll tell you at Mary Arden's (Shakespeare's mother) House, and actually turn the table to prove it.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:45 PM

In a 19C slang dictionary, "stuff" is defined as "to make false but plausible statements." Hotten's Slang Dictionary, 1859. Mrs. Gamp's "Stuff and nonsense" would fir here. OED. This is very close to "worthless matter" already cited by Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:18 PM

In that sense then, Snuffy, when they say they've turned the table on you, it would usually indicate they had relegated you to the less honored category and served you on the rough side, is that right? 'Turning the tables' normally has a derogatory implication.

On the other hand, turning the table (or board) in chess makes a lot of sense to me. I like chess and it seems that usage should have occurred to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Origin: Stuff and Nonsense
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 12:33 AM

"Turn the tables" derogatory? To turn the tables on someone means to reverse the flow, i. e. to stem the other person's action and gain the upper hand for yourself. To quote: "reversing a position in relation to one who up to that time had an advantage." Bergen and Cornelia Evans, Dictionary of Contemporary American Usage.