BBC Treasure Hunt

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:58 PM

I have some editions Folk Song Cellar on cassette, including one from c1966 with Young Tradition. No response yet from anyone on this. It includes Yellow hose, which I don't think YT ever recorded. (rightly, in my opinion!)

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM

I may be able to find an actual BBC copy of a Folk on Two that was done from the Assembly Rooms at Surbiton abot 30 years ago. I know Derek Serjeant was given a copy by [I think] the BBC. I shall make enquiries.
Giok.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Nicky Barut
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:36 AM

I have an original old LP of Hancock's Half Hour (original covers) do you know if this would be worth anything?

My email address is [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris Brady
Date: 24 May 07 - 06:47 AM

Is someone going to issue a MP3 CD of Folkweave and Folk on 2 anytime? I have loads of cassettes of these, recorded for me when I was teaching in NZ and was homesick for a bit of folk culture. The NZBC also had discs of folk music from the BBC Transcription Sewrvice - but I bet those all got thrown away. There is a good org. that might be interested at: http://www.otrcat.com/ - that is www DOT otrcat DOT com

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris Brady
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 07:53 AM

I have numerous Folkweave and Folk on 2 cassettes recorded for me by my mother when I emigrated into that folk and cultural vaccuum called rural New Zealand. I wonder if anyone is interested in doing anything with them? The http://www.otrcat.com/ group is amazing and I have just bought a load of CDs from them including Lines from My Grandfather's Forehead which no-one has re-issued yet. Does anyone know if http://www.otrcat.com/ is interested in re-issuing Folkweave or Folk on 2. Incidentally there is one excerp of Folk on 2 at my website at http://www.chrisjbrady.com when Folk on 2 visited the Reading Cloggies Festival in 1982. It includes an obit. for Bert Lloyd. Chris Brady

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 08:12 AM

I have one Folk on Two tape of the one that I appeared briefly on from the Surbiton Assembly Rooms many years ago. In those days I used to listen to it assiduously. I certainly thought Jim Lloyd a better presenter then the present incumbent.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folk Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris J Brady
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:23 PM

I am busy digitising Folkweave and Folk on 2 from the 1970s. it would be good if as many recordings of BBC folk progs could be gathered together. If anyone has cassettes or reel 2 reel recordings that I can loan please let me know. I have the facilities to digitise these. Alternatively perhaps copies could be dontaed to a central archive for these? I belive that all the reel 2 reel masters of Folkweave may have survived. It would be good to include those too. Many thanks - Chris Brady

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Folk Song Cellar
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 09:32 AM

What chance a copy please? Chris B.

I have some editions Folk Song Cellar on cassette, including one from c1966 with Young Tradition. No response yet from anyone on this. It includes Yellow hose, which I don't think YT ever recorded. (rightly, in my opinion!)

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:59 PM

Seems like there is a lot of rare archival material out there. But it is in scattered and private ownership. And folks like Guido (?)have announced that they have e.g. 13 acetate trans. disks of Folk Song Cellar - and then have disappeared from the forum. So his/her material is now lost forever. With regards to Folkweave I have had email correspondance with someone - a banjo player from Manchester - who claimed that he had 'found' a skip full of junked masters of Folkweave behind the BBC Manchester Studios. Apparently he took all of them them home and eventually digitised them to CD. But then he too 'disappeared' and emails of enquiry went unanswered. I also know of a collection of Folk Song Cellar recordings in NZ. But again these are in a private collection and said owner maybe thinks that the BBC is going to pay big bucks to get them back. No chance. So what's the point of owning all of this stuff if it is still in private hands. It needs putting back into the public domain. I emailed the NWFolk Archive about my own recordings of Folkweave. But no-one replied. So my own tapes will get lost. And my relatives have no interest whatsoever in such material if my clogs are popped anytime soon. I understand that the British Library has a collection of folk programme recordings - but again these are out of reach of most, may be only listened to, but certainly can never be copied or released into the pubic domain aka uploaded to the web. BTW emails to the Treasure Hunt also get ignored. I say again - what's the point?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 07:40 AM

Do we need some sort of YouTube site where all of these archival recordings could be placed?
Problem would be who has the ownership of copyright and would they let them be placed there.
I have about 530 Folk on Twos from 1982 up to 2000 with omissions, usualy with a gap in the middle of each one when turning the cassette over!

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 07:57 AM

Twizzle, is there any existing footage of this children's programme anywhere? I've seen a few 'Torchy' episodes but I think it was only a few that were salvaged and shown on the 'Bravo' channel. There were a few episodes of Twizzle that I found quite frightening at the time and I would be interested to see what it was that scared me about it.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

Hi Chris

The Folk North West site is undergoing a revamp since a new webmaster has taken over from me. I'll check the emails and get back to you. I'll also check with the BBC what the current state of the Treasure Hunt is although I imagine it has lost impetus of late and may not be active.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: johnadams
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:25 AM

Like Chris B, I am busy dealing with old tape collections and have a few awaiting my attention, including a number of folk club collections on both cassette and quarter inch. To that end I've spent a chunk of money setting up a transfer bay which will transfer from all domestic quarter inch formats and all cassette dolby types to digital.

Two years ago, the Traditional Song Forum proposed a project, called 'Voices In The Attic' to which my name is notionally attached but I've yet to put any serious effort into tracking down more recordings, thus increasing the size of the task which is already pending. Some project partners would be welcome.

It would be nice if all the old recordings could be made available, BBC folk programmes, club recordings, field recordings, etc. but the task would be enormous and would bring lots of thorny copyright issues with it. The BBC Archives are very helpful if approached in the right way but there are other problems like performers not wanting old, possibly sub-standard club performances being in the public domain etc.

Chris B has made some recordings available online (applause) but there is a limit to what can be hosted by those of us willing to devote time and fork out from our own pockets for storage etc. My own audio archives are in excess of 2 Terabytes - considerably less in mp3 format of course but it still represents a considerable effort to get it reformatted and uploaded somewhere. Also, there is a proportion of it that will be of little interest to the majority and maybe of no interest at all.

Since the VitA proposal was raised I've been wondering how to approach the problem of accessibility and it occurs to me that in the absence of a national solution brokered by the British Library or the EFDSS who might have the will if not the resources (and I'm talking copyright here, not technology), there might be a middle way. That would be to club together and set up an online database of recordings so at least we know what exists and who's got it. I'm not saying that those who have the recordings will automatically make them available to anyone who asks - I've certainly no wish to be flooded out with requests for copies when I'm busy getting on with my own life, but over a period of time, mp3s could be disseminated and passed around from those who have them to those who need them and without huge violations of the copyright laws.

Does anybody think this is a good idea?

Just to demonstrate what might be ultimately available I'll send a link to the zip file of the Paul Graney Memorial Archive rough catalogue to any interested parties if they send an email request to my mudcat handle followed by @imailbox.com

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Smedley
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM

This might be a long shot, but has anyone thought of contacting a university with an academic commitment to folk history - Newcastle is the obvious candidate in the UK. Their library might be interested, though finances would be tight and getting tighter.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:53 AM

Take 2 - Speaking of old "folk" programmes, does anybody (UK) recall a couple of BBc 2 programmes called TV Ballads ??
I recall the Poozies doing 'Love on a Farmboy's Wages' dressed as factory girls and somebody singing about Luton.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: johnadams
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 10:24 AM

Hi Smedley,

I'm in contact with Newcastle via both Vic Gammon and Chris Coe and their library's ability to handle archive material is limited by resources. Additionally I'd say that academic institutions like universities are not good repositories for anything you might be wishing to reside in the public domain. If anything, they are worse than the BL for access as you need to be in the academic community. At least with the BL you only have to be rich.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:12 PM

The value of 'lost' recordings - bootlegs, BBC transcription disks, etc., is welldescribed here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-At-BBC-Fairport-Convention/dp/B000NA2UAU

Lost and found BBC transcription discs provide new matter to one of the 4 CDs in this beautiful and informatively packaged '60s-'70s box set trove culled from its and band's archives spanning the earliest sessions by the first generation Fairport (a West Coast-influenced folk pop act) to the robustly English folk rock act if became best known for. Disc 4 contains the lost (poor quality its has to be said) recordings featuring original singer Judy Dyble with pleasures aplenty in her exquisitely piped takes, including earliest single, "If I Had A RIbbon Bow", and giggles aplenty in the period deejays' matey intros and back-announcements. But it's in the Sandy Denny era that the band establish the credentials that have enabled them to trade the Fairport brand with relative ease and charm over subsequent years.

"Fotheringay", "Si Tu Dois Partir", "Poor Will And The Jolly Hangman", and "Reynardine" are highlights heaped upon highlights enjoying robust yet sensitive treatments couched in swooning musicianship, and bristling with vitality and confidence. This is a fine introduction to one of the finest of their kind and an entertaining ride into radio nostalgia.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:19 PM

It would probably help to establish a definitive list of pre-1980s folk programmes. Appended could be the known years of existence, i.e. date of first edition v.v. date of last edition.

As a start there is:

(London) Folk Song Cellar
Folk & Country British Style
Country Meets Folk
Folk on 2
Friday's Folk
Folk 76
Folk 78
Folk 77 (presumably)
Folkweave

...

For holdings I would suggest setting up a spreadsheet on Google docs to which anyone could append details. Or maybe use a Yahoo groups database - perhaps TradTunes?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Little Robyn
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:43 PM

How about "Tonight in person"?
One BBC programme featuring Judy Collins with Eric Weissberg on guitar and Chuck Israels on bass, recorded in 1966. I used it for editing practice when I worked in the videotape room at WNTV1, back in 1968/9. When I left I kept the old 2inch videotape until I found a mate in the tape room who dubbed it onto a videocassete for me, using the last big Ampex 2000 machine they had that was still working.
Or maybe I shouldn't mention that??
Cheers,
Robyn

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM

Now THAT does require putting into the public domain!! But how is a moot point. What format is it in now?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM

Mitch has put it on DVD.
We'll send you a copy Chris.
It also has some Wellington folkies you might recognise, from NZBC videotapes.
Cheers,
Robyn

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:09 AM

Why was there a BBC treasure hunt? An interesting expose of the attitude that BBC staff had towards up and coming bands, archives - let's wipe as much as possible due to storage constraints, and having to cope with the Musician's Union constraint of 'needle time,' from one band's perspective.

http://www.circlerecords.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=43

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,S Byers
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 11:22 AM

Here's a good reason to preserve and track down these rare recordings.

http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/lloyd/songs/theflashstockman.html

"Trevor Lucas sings accompanied by guitar and mouth-organ - is a live performance recorded by the BBC Transcription service (Disc #28) in 1966 as part of their Folk Song Cellar radio series from a club in south-west London."

"And Martyn Wyndham-Read sang this on Lloyd, Lucas and his album The Great Australian Legend."

Martyn Wyndham-Read can be heard singing this live on 'Country Meets Folk - 1970s - 1.mp3' here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?k46i7e6hldi0qiz

Wonderful!

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:11 PM

Chris, at Channel One, NZBC, in the 60s and 70s, videotape was expensive (2inch wide) and at 15ips, a half hour programme on a metal spool was heavy and took up lots of space.
So unless a producer said "Keep that one" (in which case someone had to find storage space) after a certain period of time the videotape room was instructed to ERASE the tape and put it back in the shelves to use again. Some of the news or sports stuff that they wanted for the archives, was fed through the Telerecorder and a black and white film was made - usually very grainy and of lousy quality.
The methods of recording used today were only a dream then.
I'm sure BBC had the same problems. If a programme was done on film, there was a solid copy, but if it was a studio programme on VT, the tapes were usually wiped. (Except for Wn3366 which I kept hidden behind #1)
Robyn ex WNTV1 VT and Telecine operator, 1968 - 1973

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:25 PM

I guess the below mentioned radio shows are what we're seeking to save; although the article is incomplete because it doesn't mention Folk Song Cellar nor Country Meets Folk:

From: Wiki - Folk Music of England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music_of_England

"The difficulty of gaining regular appearances on television in England has long meant that radio has remained the major popular medium for increasing awareness of the genre. The EFDSS sponsored the BBC Home Service radio program, As I Roved Out, based on field recordings made by Peter Kennedy and Séamus Ennis from 1952 to 1958, which probably did more than any other single factor to introduce the general population to British folk music in the period.[45] Also important were occasional radio shows, such as Lomax's Ballads and Blues, MacColl's Radio-ballads (1958–64) and The Song Carriers (1968). John Peel frequently included folk music of his Top Gear show on Radio One from 1968, but dropped it when punk arrived in the 1970s. The most consistent source of folk music on radio, has been BBC Radio 2. In 1967 "My Kind of folk" was broadcast on Wednesdays. In 1970 "Folk on Friday" began, presented by Jim Lloyd. In 1972 it became "Folk on Sunday". "Folkweave" was presented by Tony Capstick 1975-8. "Folk on Two" (Wednesdays) began in 1980. In 1998 Jim Lloyd retired from the programme and was replaced by Mike Harding. In 2007 it was renamed "The Mike Harding Folk Show". Ian A. Anderson, editor of "fRoots", also presented the occasional series for Radio Two. He hosted a World music programme on "Jazz FM" and then spent 10 years broadcasting on the BBC World Service. He currently hosts "fRoots Radio" on the web. For over twenty years, until 2006, Charlie Gillett presented World music on BBC London."

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 09:24 AM

"The EFDSS sponsored the BBC Home Service radio program, As I Roved Out, based on field recordings made by Peter Kennedy and Séamus Ennis from 1952 to 1958" -

I wonder if anyone has any recordings of 'As I Roved Out' - and

I wonder if EFDSS or anyone still has the recordings made by Peter Kennedy and Séamus Ennis - and if so whattheyare doing to preserve &/or digitise them?

Chris B.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:25 AM

Just dug out several cassettes of old folk programs, (Folk song cellar, folkweave etc) to find that my (expensive) cassette deck no longer works - tapes go round, but no sound - both drives. So cannot convert them at the moment.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:34 PM

I can offer to convert them for you - and give you a CD of the contents too. Chris B.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B to Pavanne
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:23 PM

Pavanne - do you have a private email address please? Please do contact me at chrisjbrady AT yahoo DOT com

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:26 PM

Now.......about TV bloody Ballads. It would seem the prorammes were produced in the early 90s and featured John Hegley amongst others. I also recall a bloke playing a hurdy gurdy at a railway station.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 04:53 PM

Bob Monkhouse was one of the first to have a home video recorder. He had recordings in his personal archive both in film, video and audio that have been lost or wiped by the TV Companies and BBC. These include hundreds of classic comedies long since gone. This amazing archive has only just been discovered, and it is hoped that many of these recordings will eventually be released into the public domain.

Meanwhile I hope that someone has capped to TheBox.bz this programme on BBC4:

The Secret Life of Bob Monkhouse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00x9b7w

Chris B.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:30 PM

Chris B
I have sent you an email about some Folkweave programs

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:33 PM

Anyone else who would like to access them, PM me for instructions

Programs so far copied feature
1. Graham & Eileen Pratt
2. Blackmore club 1st visit
3. Blackmore club 2nd visit

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:35 PM

I forgot - First program also features Swan Arcade

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:51 AM

With regards to Folkweave a guy emailed me awhile ago:

From: Alan Senior - alan AT senior DOT force9 DOT co DOT uk

"Hiya,I have just read your post on uk.music.folk, I have all the original 1/2"Masters from folk weave,rescued from a skip outside BBC Manchester & spent a few months putting them on to CD's, some great stuff but the BBC Does still own the copyright so there's not much I can do with them !"

Subsequent attempts to contact Alan have proved fruitless; maybe some one here knows him ...

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 02:16 AM

Mmm A bit of a typo in Alans original message. Very unlikely to be "Half Inch" masters...More likely "Quarter Inch"....