Attitudes to dancing.

Subject: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 05:57 AM

There was a quote on TV last night from Elizabethan England (or rather was Mary Quenn of Scots, Scotland). It was condemming a court celebration for 'dancing and debauchery'.

It seemed to sum up church and official attitudes towards dancing at least here. When dancing (and music) is part of just about every gathering of human beings, how/why do offical attitudes in history appear to be so anti dancing, in particular?

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 06:06 AM

I don't like dancing.I only ever dance if I am drunk, but if you get too drunk you could fall over!

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 06:12 AM

"Dancing and debauchery" might have been an Elizabethan euphemism for an orgy.

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 06:25 AM

Exactly the point, this impression would appear to have be set, That where ever dancing take place, so does a bit of the other...........

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 06:46 AM

Shambles, the Puritans brought their attitude over the pond when they came. That attitude prevailed in New England for a long time, and traveled south and west. There are still places where sex is frowned on, as it may lead to dancing!

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 06:55 AM

Animaterra :0) :0)

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Maryrrf
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 07:55 AM

I once questioned a fundamentalist christian as to why he was opposed to dancing. He replied that dancing mimics the sex act and therefore dancing is equivalent to having sex. (Not in my book it isn't!). I then asked why he was opposed to drinking wine, when Christ's first miracle was turning water into wine for the wedding at Cana. He said that it was because today's wine is "chemically produced" and the wine in Christ's time was "natural". In the course of the conversation he also informed me that the Smurfs are demonic. I remained polite but I must admit I was stupefied that he could say all these things with a straight face. I can assure you that he was totally sincere!

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 08:14 AM

Smurfs were not blue, before they started with the wine drinking and the dancing. Be warned............

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 09:44 AM

But Smurfs ARE demonic.....

And dancing for me leads to the nearest casualty unit!! Sex on the other hand, hasn't (well, from what I remember of it....)

LTS

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 11:17 AM

As John Betjaman said, it is the "vertical expression of horizontal desire". And as his brother said - "You're a Betjaman than I am Gungadin!"

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 11:21 AM

Ah attitude - as in inclination and disposition.

When people ask me how I am I invariably reply "Jumping with Joy"
Joy thought it was funny at first and gets her laughs from their reactions - usually at ceilidhs.
Oggle Band at Wroughton (Swindon) 2nite.

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: GUEST,MAG at work
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM

I had a Scotthish prof once who insisted Jesus turned the water into grape juice at Cana -- he was quite serious, too.

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Charcloth
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 03:08 PM

Just for the record, I am generaly considered a fundamentalist Christain. BUT, I disagree with the type folks you mentioned. I don't know where they are coming from.
Psalms 150:4 reads "Praise him with the timbrel & dance" also Psalm 149:3 "Let them praise his name in dance"
I could go on, but remember it wasn't that long ago the fiddle was called the "Devils Box".
To be sure, there are some dances I feel are indecent, just as there are some songs & gestures & such in the same vein, but some folks on both sides will never see the merit in their opposition's view. So I refuse to debate the issue. You can't change someones mind if they know it all.
Charcloth

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 04:10 PM

As I recall, somewhere in the middling dark ages there was a real problem with ergot on wheat which caused "St. Vitus Dance". People just up and off and danced, neglecting all their tasks. This was frowned on.

So, instead of forbidding people to eat wheat, they forbid them to dance.

ET

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 04:26 PM

To be sure, there are some dances I feel are indecent, just as there are some songs & gestures & such in the same vein, but some folks on both sides will never see the merit in their opposition's view. So I refuse to debate the issue. You can't change someones mind if they know it all.

I know very little (for sure) but I am not sure that I consider any dance to be indecent, and I am also not sure what exactly the word indecent means anyway. I am quite willing to debate the issue with anyone however.

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 04:53 PM

Animaterra: I heard it this way:

Q. Why is it Baptists don't believe in having sex standing up?

A. Because it might lead to dancing.

It's not only Baptists of course. My wife grew up in a very small town in southeastern Minnesota that only had one church, and that was Lutheran. The local high school didn't have dances because the Lutherans opposed it. I think this was an old Norwegian or Swedish viewpoint. It has changed since then. Anyway, other kinds of Lutherans are not so stodgy.

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 05:09 PM

I've never heard Mary Queen of Scots was any kind of Puritan. Presumably it was one of her court celebrations sthat was being condemned by the current Ian Paisley.

The expression "dancing and debauchery" recognises a distinction between the two activities, while indicating that the two activities can coexist in a social setting, which is quite true.

The same of course is true of tennis. The funny thing is you never seem to hear people talking about tennis and debauchery.

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 08:03 PM

New balls please!

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 08:06 PM

At Wimbledon, it is the custom for the winner of the ladies singles to (you know, nudge nudge) 'dance' with the winner of the mens singles

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Charcloth
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 08:32 PM

Lap dancing & watching someone grab their crotch are a couple of things I have no desire to take my family to see

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Charcloth
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 08:43 PM

Sorry about the last post I hit the wrong key before I was finished.
I only inteneded it for clarification & not as a rebuttal. Some folks see only bad in every thing & some see only good in everything. With those types you are wasting time discussing anything.
Free dicusion & sharing of views is one thing that is a blessing and is benifical. Arguing & ranting is something else. That's why we have the trouble with trolls of late. I just try to avoid possibilities for trolls. That is all I intended to say. I meant no offense to you Shambles
Charcloth

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 09:01 PM

Lap dancing & watching someone grab their crotch are a couple of things I have no desire to take my family to see

I can understand that but I an not sure I would either of them as indecent, not to my taste as family entertainment, possibly.

I am not being funny here but it is strange world and there is the possibility that you may one day find a member of your own family doing these things.

There are a lot worse things that they could be involved in surely?

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Charcloth
Date: 16 Feb 02 - 09:13 PM

I know & I have seen worse out of one of my sons it is painful to look at. One always wants the best for their Children & grandchildren too
Charcloth

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 03:23 AM

I am sorry this causes you distress and there is no need to say what exactly 'the worse' is but we all have, at some point accept that our children have the choice.

No matter what they may choose to do, we know in our hearts that they are not evil, indecent or any of the other words.........

Even if they do choose to join a Morris side. *Smiles*

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Charcloth
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 08:40 AM

no poblem
Let's Dance
Charcloth

Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing.
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 02:50 PM

I started as a singer (because I have a voice), I played percussion (spoons, tambourine, hammered dulcimer) in ceilidh bands, because my husband was a musician (and I have very small hands and fingers so percussion was easier than wind or string instruments). I danced because my husband went off with another member of the band, and I lost a lot of weight. Dancing was wonderful, indeed euphoric, but did my knees in, so now it's back to singing...