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BS: MATH PROBLEM
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: M.Ted Date: 25 Feb 02 - 09:48 AM This is not a mathematical problem, it is a tax problem! John-in-Kansas (a man of many resources, and much practical knowledge) has linked you to the appropriate downloadable sales tax tables--all of you math whizzes, take notice! If the "6.5%" sales tax table applies (In some counties, it is 7%) when the taxable amount is from $0.85-0.99, you are obliged to collect $0.06, but from $1.00 to $1.07, you collect $0.07-multiply everything out, subtract, and then just put on a fake mustache and beard and do all transactions in cash-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jon Freeman Date: 25 Feb 02 - 09:08 AM Thinking of rounding, when using computers, one needs to be sure of the rounding method used. Excel uses conventional rounding but I have run into programs -Deplhi springs to mind - where the round function works on bankers rounding which handles a final 5 in the decimal portion differently by rounding by towards the nearest even number (I think) so Excel would give:
Round(2.5,0) = 3 but using Delphi, you would get:
Round(2.5) = 2 Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST,Nigel Date: 25 Feb 02 - 08:32 AM Bradfordian's solution is correct. My wife is a VAT auditor (makes sign of cross and checks garlic necklace) and she has been given these same fractions to use. McGrath, 17½% is a doddle to use, (purchase price plus 10% plus half as much again plus half as much again). Musically speaking (back to subject) think of it as 10% with a double dot. Before decimalisation, 7/48 would have been a simpler fraction, (7pennies in 4 shillings, or 35 pennies[2/11d] in the pound!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: bradfordian Date: 25 Feb 02 - 06:46 AM oops. cookie now reset |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST,bradfordian Date: 25 Feb 02 - 06:42 AM If sales tax is 6.5%, then you can use the following fractions:- For tax 13/213, for cost of item less tax 200/213. In UK (17,5%) tax = 7/47 & price less tax = 40/47 Hopefully!!! Check these out for $10.65 & £11.75 respectively. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 02 - 03:17 AM Jeff I didn't go into the NC tax tables - just thought it a good idea for the ones with the problem to go to the source. I have run into places where "rounded off to the penny" actually meant "rounded up to the penny." If the "calculated" tax was 5.01 cents, you paid 6 cents. Places with this kind of "math" seem often to demand that each individual sale be reported separately, since - on average - it gets them an extra half-cent per sale(?) Usually, math works; but when dealing with politicians, it's best to check the "official" sources. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Pene Azul Date: 25 Feb 02 - 02:29 AM According to the tax table on their site (http://www.dor.state.nc.us/downloads/E502G_1-02.pdf), the tax on an individual sale is conventionally rounded off to the penny. Jeff |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 02 - 02:21 AM An amazing amount of discussion, for an apparently trivial question. About the only thing "proved" is that the first GUEST was wrong - for a bunch of musicians, it ain't that simple. MudGuard's answer is correct. The only simplification I can see is to "reduce" the 1/(1+.065) to 0.93897. Multiply the amount "collected" by 0.93897 to get the "sale price." Then when the "sale price" is multiplied by 0.065, you get the tax. Add Price + Tax and you should come up with the amount collected ($100 for purposes of the original question. The remaining difficulty is that various tax jurisdictions don't always come up with the "mathematically correct" number as the amount you must pay. Many tax jurisdictions will permit you to pay a "lump sum" percentage of the total "amount of sales." Others insist that each item sold must be taxed separately, and you must pay the "total of the taxes collected on individual sales." Some of these later For information on North Carolina, you might want to check out: Tax Forms and Instructions: North Carolina From there, you can click to: Sales and Use Taxes: North Carolina The "real world answers" should be there(?). John |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Gary T Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:09 AM MudGuard's explanation is correct. IvanB's figures are correct. GUEST at 24-Feb-02 - 06:12 PM, John Routledge, and Nathan (harpgirl's post) were wrong. Problem stated that selling price INCLUDING tax was 100, thus "item price + 6.5% of item price = 100". Whatever item price is, it is NOT 100, and thus 6.5% of item price is NOT 6.5. AR282's reply is wrong if he uses MudGaurd's definition of "selling price" (item price plus tax). It could be considered technically correct if he means the pre-tax price of the item, but is then useless in solving the problem--we already know how to figure the tax given the item price, the question is how to figure the item price. To sum it up in algebra: P = item price, what we're trying to calculate S = amount of sale (MudGaurd's "selling price"), which includes item price plus tax, which is 6.5% of item price S is known to be 100. What is P? S = P + 6.5%P = 100 S = 1.065P = 100 1.065P = 100 P = 100/1.065 = 93.90 (rounded to second decimal place) Double check (all figures rounded to second decimal place): 93.90 + 6.5%(93.90) = 93.90 + 6.10 = 100 Figures add up, all is well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: AR282 Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:21 PM Multiply the selling price by .065 and then add that amount to the selling price. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Bobert Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:07 PM If a hen and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half... then how long would it take a monkey with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle???... You all wore this ol' hillbilly out tonight with all this mathmatics... Had to give the Wes Ginny slide rule a couple of asprins, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: IvanB Date: 24 Feb 02 - 10:47 PM No, Mudguard's solution is the correct one. If you sell something for $100, sales tax included, the actual selling price is 93.90 (100/106.5). The tax at 6.5% would be $6.10. I've done sales tax reports in Michigan and I know here that, no matter how much you collect by using the state's tax tables, you send in 6% of your sales at the end of the month. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: harpgirl Date: 24 Feb 02 - 09:36 PM What you do is find what 6.5% of 100 would be. You then minus that from a 100. You would get $93.50 without tax or n times .065cents That's how you would get the taxes for that state. This is from Nathan, harpgirl's son... and if you need help with any other math problem contact me at nated2000@yahoo.com and I will get back to you as soon as possible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: 8_Pints Date: 24 Feb 02 - 09:17 PM Who said there are three kinds of mathematician: those can count and those who can't! *BG* Bob vG |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jeep man Date: 24 Feb 02 - 09:06 PM Thanks, folks. If the combined knowledge of all Mudcatters was put to use, we could probably end all wars, eliminate hunger and desease, and everyone would pick and sing in tune. Mucho thanks, Jeep |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jon Freeman Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:47 PM opps, for all my references to row 1 in row 2 except the one with the $ sign, read 2!!! Jon I think I put 2s in appropriate places. --JoeClone |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jon Freeman Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:45 PM Thanks guest, hope that "rule" of how you added may have helped others see Mudguard's solution. My own inclination would be follow Jeff's subtraction, e.g if Jeepman was constructing a spread sheet for his sales, it may make sense to have some cell containing the percentage tax, - I'll call it T1. On a spreadsheet that works like Excel, we could have: Cell T1 - the actual % tax (useful as if tax ever changed, onlt the one cell would have to be changed):
Row1 - headings
row 2 and subsequent rows - actuals and formulae Just copy formulae down a few rows and add a few totals... Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: SINSULL Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:50 PM Is this lack of Mathematical ability another reason folkies can't make a dime? |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:39 PM Clear, simple and accurate, Jon Thank you |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jon Freeman Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:34 PM The simplest way to think of this is that to add tax, you multiply by 1 + the % tax expressed as a decimal. For example, to add 17.5% (wich is 1 + .175) VAT on £10 you get 10 * 1.175 = £11.75. To reverse this processess, you simply divide, i.e. £11.75 / 1.175 = £10 Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: M.Ted Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:59 PM As a bit of advice, calculate your price *beforehand*--it looks like you were trying to save trouble, but it hasn' turned out that way---the problem is, how much did you sell things for? Was the price $100, or was $100 the sum of the price and 6.5% of the price? The amount of tax that you owe will be slightly different-- Your problems will not be over then, simply because it is often the case that, rather than being a straight percentage, the amount of tax was rounded off in a prescribed way by the state--to make this easy, the state provides a table of the tax surcharges that you are obliged to collect--and they expect you to collect them as per their formula--you better have your friend talk to his accountant about how to handle this all, because, take it from me, the State of North Carolina will not think much of the idea that you calculated what you owe them based on a formula that came from an internet discussion thread-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:51 PM Our Value Added Tax is 17.5%. They'd never have dared to do that to us in the days of pounds shillings and pence, and no pocket calculators. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: John Routledge Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM Thanks Jeri and MudGuard I re-read MudGuard's post and he got it right first time. Cheers MudGuard - John
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Sorcha Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:45 PM Come join me, Jeri. I'm already there. What are you drinking tonight? I'll buy......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jeri Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:25 PM GACK! MudGuard did get it. I only had to read it 3 or 4 times. I will go sit in a corner now.
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: John Routledge Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:24 PM If you multiply selling price by .935 you get the price on which 6.5% tax is paid to give the selling price inclusive of tax The use of "non-taxable portion" by guest is potentially confusing as it is actually this amount that is subject to tax. Cheers - Happy Calculating |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jeri Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:20 PM Again, that's 100 - 6.5% You come up with (duh) 93.5 This is 100 - 6.5% of 100
The 93.5% is supposed to be the selling price. GUEST, you're not doing better than anyone else.
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Pene Azul Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:19 PM GUEST's solution is incorrect. Use Mudguard's method of dividing the total by 1.065 to find the price. Then you can subtract that from the total to find the tax, or as Mudguard said, you can multiply it by .065 to find the tax. Jeff |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:12 PM Jeez, Multiply (that's the X button on your calculator)the selling price by .935 and you'll get the non-taxable portion. If you can master addition and subtraction, you shouldn't have difficulty with the rest.
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jeri Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:04 PM It's beyond me, but with MudGuard's formula, aren't you subtracting 6.5% of 100, which isn't what 6.5% of a lesser amount (the sale price you added it to) would be? I mean, you don't need to know what 6.5% of 100 is.
100 = X + (X * .065) |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Sorcha Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:03 PM Well, then, honeychile, Iz dyspraxic. Thanks for letting me in on the secret. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:59 PM That is so simple, I can't even be bothered explaining it. HINT: Switch on your brain and think for a few minutes. I'm sure, unless you're dyspraxic, that you'll be able to work it out for yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Sorcha Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:56 PM Aww shit.....math. It is easy, but my pore ole brain can't remember....... |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: MudGuard Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:55 PM total = price + (price * 6.5)/100 or total = price * 1.065 ==> price = total / 1.065 tax = price * 0.065 HTH MudGuard |
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Subject: MATH PROBLEM From: Jeep man Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:45 PM This has naught to do with music,but I think Mudcatters will not mind. How to figure sales tax on a set amount which has the tax included? Example, Selling price, $100. Tax in NC is 6.5%. There is a simple formula for figuring the exact selling price and the tax. Help anyone? Jeep To explain, I just spent 3 days at a Bluegrass festival helping a friend at his booth. (Music Store). We sold everything "Tax Included". Get the picture? Jim |
