New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?

Subject: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:21 PM

I know this subject has been tackled before, but it has been brought a little closer to home this week with a couple of things Heather and I have seen on the tube.

Generally I don't watch the same detective shows that she does, but I checked out "Dalzeil and Pascoe"(sp) with her and they did a pretty compelling murder mystery with the fox hunters and Sabs (apparently a shortened form for 'hunt sabateurs') as the main folks involved.

Just today I watched a BBC news clip that almost looked like it was taken straight from the TV show. The Horse people were tryin' to run down the animal activists in a forest. Even rode right over the head "sab".(he survived)

When they interviewed people from both sides after the incident, I got the distinct impression that they BOTH enjoyed the Hell out of it. You know, that look of exhuberent exhausted pride, when you've REALLY done something dangerous....and survived. It felt suspiciously like watching those Xtreme sports fanatics who are always pushing the limits.

So here's my question.

Has there ever actually BEEN a murder (or even close) when the fox hunters and protesters have clashed?

Oh, and what the hell is "badger baiting"? I know I'm probably not going to like the answer....but it came up several times in the "Dalzeil and Pascoe" mystery.

Cheers (but not Tally-ho)

Rick

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: ddw
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:50 PM

Rick,

I know badger baiting is a blood sport involving badgers, I believe by setting dogs on them. It's a betting 'sport' similar to cockfighting, dogfighting, etc.

Not my idea of a good time.

But squirrels would be a whole different thing....

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:59 PM

here you go Rick

Jon

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 12:29 AM

Jon, I find badger-baiting and the like obscene and disgusting. Animal life all over is still persecuted. Here in Canada, animals are run by snowmobilers for sport, and similar atrocities occur everywhere.
The number of animals taken to supply Chinese medicines is astounding. The RCMP just got one group in Alberta, but there are many they don't catch. Bear paws and gall bladders are bringing thousands of dollars. Elk are now being farmed for the horns and velvet for sale to Chinese pharmacists and this may take some of the pressure off the wild population.

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:24 AM

In one of my favourite songs BLACK FOX by Graham Pratt, there is a sort of half time change over of who chases who. why not have a similiar sort of arrangement so that the Foxhunters chase the Sabs for half of the day and then the Sabs take over ? In normal british fashion the two sides could toss up for who goes first.

I think you'd have trouble hunting squirrels with dogs - they're not very good at climbing trees - horses have even more difficulty.....

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:29 AM

Dicho said... Here in Canada, animals are run by snowmobilers for sport...

What is even more disgusting than animal cruelty is that statement.

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:45 AM

??? gnu

Jon

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM

Thanks Jon, and the rest. Well, I got my answer didn't I? I guess wimps like me will just never understand the fun of killing things, or watching animals kill other animals...C'est la vie, eh?

On the other hand, as to my other question...DOES anyone recall serious skulldugery that may hve resulted in death, vis a vis the Fox Hunter/ Sab situation? The situation in the TV show seemed plausable.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 04:40 PM

I'm just asked Pip and Peter. None of us can remember an incident that has resulted in death although there have been people hurt in clashes...

Jon

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 04:46 PM

gnu, take note of Dicho's: "and similar atrocities occur everywhere." Did you misunderstand her position?

Eb

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 06:57 PM

Several hunt saboteurs have been killed by being run down by motor vehicles. "Accidents". Here is a page about all that kind of stuff.

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: GUEST,saab
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 02:20 PM

Rick,

The idea of foxhunting on the tube seemed interesting until I realised that you must be from the USA - in Britain it means the London Underground - I take it you mean the telly. I doubt if they'd find many foxes (even urban ones) but the thought of packs of hounds and redcoated punters on horses galloping down the Victoria Line looking for them raises a chuckle.

It would also be fun to see the redcoated brigade being chased across the countryside by their opponents on horseback but it is being done in parliament and it is far more satisfying.

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 02:56 PM

Great Saab! No I'm not American (but give them time!) I'm from Toronto Canada, and as you may know, we are a mass of multicultural euphemisms. My wife says "telly" and I say "Tube".

I was quite struck by the similarities of the TV Drama and the documentary the next day. All that was missing was the Detectives and the body!

Thanks McGrath. The website would certainly indicate that the Sabs are sadly lacking in military expertise, and seem to get themselves beaten up pretty regularly. Perhaps they should also "horse" themselves, so at least they'd have a better chance of not being trampled.

Rick

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 04:03 PM

Here's a story about a saboteur getting killed.

Andhee is one about saboteurs rescuing hounds from being run over by a train

It's gpoing to be a bit sad really, not haviung the hunt saboteurs around any more, when they abolish hunting.

Do they still go in for that in any parts of the USA? (I mean hunting with packs of hounds and horses as opposed to the Tom Lehrer variety.)

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 04:18 PM

Kinda' reminiscent of the Greenpeace anti-whaling boats ain't it? Yet again we see just how inhumane we can be in the name of sports and entertainment. I recall a story about several ships loaded with all types of animals that were sent over Niagara Falls just for the "entertainment" value. We really are slime aren't we?

Spaw

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: The Walrus
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 06:23 PM

Personally I think they could solve both the hunters' desire to chase something and the sabs' desire to save the vermin/wildlife if the authorities *would* just let the hunters chase the saboteurs

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 06:33 PM

Yup Walrus, that was my idea of "a new sport". Figure the Hunters still get to wear bright red, and blow their horns a lot. The Sabs get to wear army fatigues, beards, and do more interesting drugs. No guns though....the winning side gets to tear the losers apart with their teeth.

Rick

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 06:46 PM

And they could televise it on Fox...

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 07:00 PM

So do they do this stuff in the States? I suppose since they don't use guns it wouldn't be NRA business.

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 03:47 AM

Just for the sake of balance:

In Germany, Sabs like to destroy raised hides with the help of a saw. One variant is only to saw a bit of the wooden upper steps leading to the hide and to do it from below so that it can't be seen readily.

One hunter fell down and is now paralysed.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: New Sport..SABS vs. FOX HUNTERS?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 05:41 AM

I hope that the animal rights extremists don't start doing that over here - most hides I know about are on nature reserves - so that people can OBSERVE wildlife. I expect that some people would object to them on the grounds that they interfere with the creatures' right to privacy.

We have enough problems with idiots who "liberate" the residents of mink farms and decimate large swathes of our native wildlife.