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Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking
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Subject: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: JudeL Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:14 AM It is Steve Heap's intention to move the lunchtime sessions at the Volunteer to the Theatre Bar. The Volunteer tends to be a boisterous traditional pub session. The Theatre Bar is a sing around which is set up such that even quiet ballads can be heard and appreciated. The same people do not tend to go to both sessions as they are very different types of session something which is emphasised by the very different type of venue. The people who attend and run the Theatre Bar sessions are being left homeless. This seems to be because Steve Heap and the other organisers can't make money out of the Volunteer and now want to charge for it. The Theatre Bar session leaders have always had a whip round at hourly intervals so have been contributing to the Festival. Do people think this is unfair enough to make a noise, write to the organisers etc. about it. Do the Theatre Bar habituees select a pub and move to it en masse and sod Mrs Caseys Music? Ballott for ideas and viewpoints. A good number of Catters go to the Theatre Bar sessions. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: The Shambles Date: 16 Mar 02 - 12:27 PM Is it too obvious to suggest that the Theatre Bar folk move to the Volunteer? Or that whatever the organisers wish, the Volunteer folk may not wish to move or to pay? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Mar 02 - 01:48 PM I'd heard that - I know that various people have told Steve Head that this is not at all a good idea.
Uprooting the Volunteer session and trying to set it down in the totally different atmosphere of the Theatre Bar is daft in any case, even apart from the loss of song circle.
The Volunteer is a hell of a long way to trudge up hill if you just want a pint and a song on the way to somewhere else. And I strongly suspect that whatever Steve Head says, some kind of traditional type session will continue there, unless the landlord is agin it, which I doubt.
What would have been better mighty have been to try to transplant the Volunteer to The Swan. If that's not on, the Swan might be a viable place to try to move the Theatre Bar lunchtime song circle. I don't know if anyone can explore that possibility.
I think it's likely this change will end up with quite a number of season ticket regulars, who've been accustomed to going to either of these sessions, deciding to give Sidmouth a miss. After all there's Broadstairs the following week, and that hasn't been so showbizzed-up as Sidmouth is getting. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: John Routledge Date: 16 Mar 02 - 02:44 PM Many Thanks Jude I have toyed with the idea of going to Sidmouth for the last couple of years. Your post has decided me. Cheers. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Manitas_at_home Date: 16 Mar 02 - 02:51 PM It's easy. If the session is a truly fringe event then Steve can't move it. He can refuse to pay for festival guests to appear there but that's his choice. I's entirely up to the pubgoers and the landlord as to what sort of session takes place. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Mar 02 - 03:01 PM He may not be able to move the Volunteer session. But He can push out the Theatre Bar lunchtime song session. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 16 Mar 02 - 03:20 PM As one of the displaced Theatre Bar MCs, I'd say a large part of the Theatre Bar sessions' appeal was that they weren't pub sessions, and were genuine singarounds, so that anyone who turned up in time and waited awhile would get a sing. Also they weren't fringe but officially programmed. The Volunteer crowd think they'll be comfortable in the Theatre Bar because they're used to occupying it for late night sessions, when it has a completely different character. Alan Bearman has told me that he is aware that the singarounds were popular and he hasn't ruled out the possibility of continuing them if another suitable venue can be found. It's not clear whether the Volunteer will be open, because the landlord leaves next month. But if it gets taken over for sessions I,for one, wouldn't want to try running an unprogrammed singaround. See the MBS in the Anchor.... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Noreen Date: 16 Mar 02 - 03:35 PM Explain please, Kitty, for the uninitiated? (i.e. me) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 16 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM Just to clarify a bit. The Volunteer "In the tradition" sessions were also programmed events involving booked artists, particularly traditional singers and musicians, in an informal pub session. And greatly treasured and overcrowded, so if the Volunteer isn't available in August they do need to find another home. I just think that a festival the size of Sidmouth ought to be able to accommodate both that sort of session and a lunchtime singaround that isn't in a smoky, noisy pub. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Mar 02 - 04:16 PM Accessibility is a big thing, and a venue out from the centre, such as the Volunteer would effectively rule it out. In any case, barring objections by the landlord, I am sure that a version of the Volunteer session will still be happening there anyway, and the atmosphere is completely different.
I was wondering whether the Rugby Club, or maybe one of the other sports clubs might be willing and able to provide houseroom. Or one of the hotels. Friends Meeting House? There has to somewhere suitable. (Of course the old Public Entertainment Licence thing might come into this.) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 16 Mar 02 - 06:23 PM I am disgusted to hear this news. How unfair!!!!!!! How typical of the greed displayed by Mrs Casey's Music. Wreck two sessions in an attempt to make a few quid. I enjoyed the total equality and friendly atmosphere in the Theatre Bar. The Volunteer was not my scene at all. I think that the Theatre Bar should remain where it is. The Volunteers can go and crowd out another pub and leave the Theatre Bar alone. On another note, Broadstairs is a genuine FOLK festival. Sidmouth is an International Music Festival. They is different animals which is why I will be at Broadstairs all week but will pop over to Sidmouth purely to enjoy the company of some friends. Before you ask......NO I DO NOT BUY A SIDMOUTH SEASON TICKET!!!!! I think they are very poor value for money. If you want to be able to enjoy good artists, playing music, singing, telling stories and chatting to friends until dawn every day for a week (if you don't need to sleep) then Broadstairs has to be the festival of choice. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 17 Mar 02 - 06:01 AM The great advantages of the Theatre Bar as a venue are, that it's in the same building as other programmed events but you don't need a ticket to get into it, so members of the public can just drop in and see what's happening, and you also get ticket holders and performers wandering in and out who will sometimes contribute a song or dance. It's licensed, and serves snacks as well as non-acoholic beverages, so it has tables and reasonably adequate seating arranged in rows, which makes it easier to run as a genuine singaround. There is less ambient noise than there would be in a pub, unless the singaround was in a separate function room (and I can't think of any town centre pubs that could provide one). Kitty
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 17 Mar 02 - 07:05 AM There are pubs in Sidmouth that do not have singarounds/music sessions going on, and they are activly trying to get them started, (The Black Horse tried to poach Terry "Lead Fingers" Silver from The Newt, one year) Although as Kitty has indicated the atmosphere at the theatre Bar is different I can't see it stopping the sessions in the Volunteer - as manitas points out and as long as the new management wants it to continue. The problem seem to be that a pub venue is not the best for a ballad session so write to Steve Heap, preferably in non abusive terms and ask for one to be set up.Cllr |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST,Dageham Doc Date: 17 Mar 02 - 08:36 AM I love the sessions at the Vol. the whole atmosphere, the singing and the crowded bar,along with some bloody good singers.That would be lost at the theatre bar. The two buildings speak for themselves. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 17 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM Cllr Skittle Alley of the Black Horse would probably be OK for a smallish quietish singaround - near enough for exchanges with the Anchor. Any thoughts? Has anyone suggested that the Volunteer sessions move to the Dove?????? (I might have suggested a singaround in the Lounge, but it wouldn't work if there was a session going in the Public Bar....) Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 17 Mar 02 - 05:57 PM Kitty -Singing in the Dove- what an outrageous idea.Cllr |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST,CraigS Date: 17 Mar 02 - 06:24 PM The solution - the back bar of the Geldart in Cambridge - Patsy the landlord would be glad to see you all - sorry if it's a few miles out, Mike and Kitty, but from what I can see I don't think Mrs Muckrake would miss you! I'll be there with Clive, the best English fiddler living, and Sean, the best session guitarist you've never met by going to Sidmouth! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 17 Mar 02 - 07:14 PM Let's keep things in proportion shall we. Cambridge has its own festival. The Dove in Sidmouth was for years and years the quiet venue for off-duty perfomers, but it's a much more natural habitat for the Volunteer crowd than the Theatre Bar at lunch time (in any case, the Theatre Bar started at 10.30). |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Mar 02 - 07:59 PM There are a fair number of pubs that could be OK for the kind of sessions they've had at the Volunteer.Though The Volunteer is perfect, apart from being a fair way up the hill. But if the place isn't going to be available, there are other pretty suitable pubs.
But I get the impression that it's not that, but rather that the Sidmouth Management want to have another paid venue for more traditional music, and have decided that the Theatre Bar is the right place for it. They are probably wrong, though the idea in itself isn't a bad one.
It seems that the singaround in the Theatre Bar is seen as dispensable. It doesn't bring in as much money as a paid venue would, that appears to be the thinking. But finding a replacement where this tradition can be continued is much more of a problem, and whatever happens it's going to lose out on the come-all-ye quality.
Some email addresses for who to write to about this would be helpful. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 17 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM I have tried to figure out WHY the Volunteer is to be moved. It does not make sense to wreck two sessions. Something must have happened at the Vol to make this move necessary. Won't the new landlord pay Mrs Casey et al to put the session in?????? If that is the case why don't the Vol crew just go and do their usual thing???? It doesn't need to be in the official programme. That's where folkies will expect it to be, why not just conduct a sit-in? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 18 Mar 02 - 02:44 AM 1) The festival lost a lot of money last year and is trying to cut costs this year. 2) Hiring the Manor Pavilion for the week costs a lot and I think the festival management want to restrict access to ticket holders rather than relying on collecting tins passing round the bar (I suspect this will just deter non-ticket holders from entering the premises, rather than bringing in more money). 3) When I last heard, the Volunteer was likely to close at the end of April and no new landlord had been found. The festival website is www.Sidmouthfestival.com. Alan Bearman's e-mail address is bearman@btinternetcom.
Kitty
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: The Shambles Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:19 AM Has the Volunteer a PEL, I wonder? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: alanww Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:53 AM Having been a Sidmouth regular for 15+ years, I gave up paying for a season ticket a couple of years ago when I got fed up with the money-grabbing of Mrs Casey. Having said that, they are a commercial organisation and I can see why they are looking for a different venue for the Volunteer sessions. There would be a lot of unhappy Volunteer regulars if it just folded - and it may not be available as a venue if it is landlord-less. If it is open I would imagine the regulars will go to it anyway (old habits die hard!) On the other hand, if it isn't available I can't see the Volunteer crowd being happy in the Theatre Bar - it has a quite different ambience, being more like a canteen/coffee room. And it would not only upset the regular Theatre Bar singers. Lots of people attending other event in the complex drop in for a quiet cup of tea and cheap snack. A much more realistic option would be another pub in town - several have already been mentioned - The Swan, The Dove (which has already lost its quiet pub status, or the Black Horse). Does anyone know Steve Heap's email address? As I rose up at break of day, all from beside my true love ..." |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: JudeL Date: 18 Mar 02 - 05:18 AM As I understand it, the "current" landlord of the Volunteer is due to leave in April and last I heard a new one has not yet been found. Even if one is found, often when there is a change of landlord, the pub gets closed for a while for "renovations" and the character of a place changes. There is also no guarantee that any new landlord would be welcome the session. It would presumably cost the festival organisers money if they sceduled stuff for the Volunteer which was then not available. I am not saying that the session which was at the Volunteer should simply stop, if the Volunteer is unavailable then it will need to be moved but I don't think that displacing the Theatre bar singaround is a good solution. There are a number of pub venues which would welcome the business brought in by a transplanted Volunteer crowd but very few "quieter" venues suitable for the Theatre Bar singaround. To me it does not make sense and it does leave the question hanging why wreck two events which don't require a season ticket unless the organisers are trying to eliminate non-season ticket opportunities? If that is true then I believe that it is an extreemly shortsighted idea,since rather than get more people buying season tickets all it is likely to achieve is to totally drive away those who don't buy season tickets, so they take their custom elsewhere (such as Broadstairs) and once they go they are unlikely to return. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 02 - 07:07 AM It's also liable to drive away those season ticket holders for whom the Theatre Bar has been an enjoyable part of Sidmouth, of whom I am one. Even if the building and bar is going to still be available to Season Ticket holders, that won't be good enough - a lot of the enjoyment has been meeting up again with old friends. including many who don't get Season Tickets.
I don't think I'll be the only one who'll be thinking twice before coming to Sidmouth this year. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 18 Mar 02 - 02:25 PM to be fair to Steve Heap if The Volunteer hasn't got a tenant/landlord it would be silly for them to book it as a venue when whoever is incoming may not agree. perhaps the situation will change once this is resolved. Cllr |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 18 Mar 02 - 02:37 PM I can understand festival organisers trying to cut down on freebies, but making singarounds and sessions ticket only or paying events does away with opportunities for non-folky members of the public to discover folk music. Steve won't be impressed by representations from people who have enjoyed but not made any financial contribution to the festival - and I don't see why the festival should subsidise the fringe, (to the extent that people come along for fringe events that only happen because there's a festival), but I do think that there should be programmed participatory events which don't require a ticket but do involve collecting tins. Even ticket holders have been known to put something in! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 02 - 02:39 PM Making alternative arrangements for the Volunteer in the circumstances makes sense if the pub isn't going to be abaulable. But that's an entirely different matter from displacing a longest established singaround in a setting which is quite unsuited for the uprooted Volunteer session. (Which is a great session.)
Thinking it over, one other suggestion occurs, as a place where the Theatre Bar singaround might feel reasonably at home - the Sailing Club. Though there would be access problems for people who can't manage stairs I think. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:15 PM I've just had a chastening conversation with a former festival organiser (who shall remain nameless, Bob) to the effect that if you're running a festival the size of Sidmouth, both the Volunteer and the Theatre Bar are not a significant factor in the overall scheme of things because they cater for specialist and small minorities - which the number of contributors to this thread seems to bear out..... Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:56 PM The Theatre Bar is a good session for singers. The Volunteer is a get together for "artists" who all seem to know each other. The Volunteer would not have the right atmosphere unless held in a pub. Find another pub for them, I say, and leave the Theatre Bar singaround alone. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:56 PM An anagram for "chastening conversation" is "anachronistic song event". Somehow that seems not unfitting. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: The Shambles Date: 18 Mar 02 - 06:58 PM I can understand festival organisers trying to cut down on freebies, but making singarounds and sessions ticket only or paying events does away with opportunities for non-folky members of the public to discover folk music.
I don't see that organisers should be trying to cut down on "freebies" or to cash in on them. This has always been the impression I have gained from the organisers at Sidmouth, which is why I don't tend to go there.
The trick is to make all contributions appear to be a seamless part of the festival not to be seen to openly battle with them. A person who just plays, sings or dances on the seafront, is making a valuable contribution to the festival, even if they never directly pay for anything provided by the organisers.
I am sure that many people would continue to attend Sidmouth and play in the various sessions and together on the seafront, even if the organised festival stopped now. Would the festival continue for very long, without the contributions and attractions of the fringe? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: JudeL Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:28 AM People who go to Sidmouth in festival week who don't pay for a full season ticket are still helping to keep the festival viable even if they don't (as many do) pay either for individual events or day tickets to the show ground. Many ticket holders enjoy the opportunity to hear the variety of musical contributions provided by those participating in "fringe" events and joe public, having enjoyed free fringe stuff may then consider buying tickets for programmed stuff. Also the extra money that non-ticket holders spend in the town helps acceptance of the festival by the traders who would not appreciate the drop in takings if fringe events were driven away. It should not be assumed that if there are fewer fringe opportunities more people would buy tickets for often the reason tickets are not bought is cos they are so expensive - work out the cost for a family! They are not good value for money unless you plan on being in the concert and dance tents from first thing in the morning until last thing at night. The first two years we added up what we had paid for the tickets and set it against what it would have cost for the individual concerts we actually attended and even making a deliberate effort to try to use them since we had bought them we found we hadn't even used a fifth of what it had cost us! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Mar 02 - 07:44 AM The reason we've always bought season tickets since 1984 I thinj is because it provides freedom to come and go, which means being able to take a chance on unfamiliar stuff that we aren't sure we'll like. It also means a bit less queuing and a bit more confidence of being able to get to see the people we want to see.
It takes the headache out of a time of energetic relaxation. If it ends up subsidising the festival and other people's enjoyment, that's OK. I think of Sidmouth as being equivalent to a foreign holiday, but a visit closer to home.
But part of the implied bargain with the Festival is that they don't try to squeeze the spontaneity out of it, and that they make room for people to be able to take part in things without having a season ticket. The Theatre Bar has been an important part of this. If it's just being dumped on by the management without any consideration for our wishes and preferences, maybe that's a reason to give Sidmouth a rest.
So could someone put up the contact details for anyone we can lobby who might actually pay attention to these kind of things? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: alanww Date: 19 Mar 02 - 10:57 AM Forget the distraction of the season ticket holder/non season ticket holder issue and the ex festival organiser's belittling of the Volunteer and Theatre Bar in the big picture of the festival. The real issue is that another pub venue would be a much more appropriate place for the potentially-displaced Volunteer sessions, rather than the Theatre Bar, and it would also not necessitate the displacing of a valued (quiet) singaround venue. I heard a blackbird sing its song, as beautiful as new love ...
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 19 Mar 02 - 02:59 PM McGrath Song events are the responsibility of Alan Bearman, which is why I posted his e-mail address earlier in the thread. Alanww - the festival organiser I mentioned was quite happy to have free fringe events at his own festival. He just pointed out that they shouldn't get in the way of income generating ones. If Mrs Casey are paying large sums to use the Manor Bar Pavilion during Folk Week (as the locals still call it, even if Steve doesn't), it probably does make sense from the organisers' point of view to shift free access sessions somewhere else. However, it isn't obvious that shifting the Volunteer sessions there will generate additional revenue at all, because a lot of the people who go to the Volunteer work for the festival and get free tickets, or have season tickets that have already been paid for. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Mar 02 - 03:34 PM But if displacing free events ends up with driving away paying customers - both existing ones and others who'd been thinking of coming but pick up on the feeling that the festival is playing silly buggers and decide to go elsewhere - that means a loss of revenue too.
Do we know if the idea is that the Theatre Bar is going to be "members only" for the week, and that it'll be used for season ticket holders only events? In which case I can't see where the extra money will come in. They aren't going to sell more season tickets on that basis, and they probably will lose a few. Or are they planning to close it as a bar and snack place, and just use it for ticket events? I think that'll backfire too.
I just want to get it straight what it is they are planning before I send Alan Bearman his email. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 19 Mar 02 - 06:55 PM McGrath As I said earlier, Alan has indicated that he hasn't ruled out the possibility of a singaround at another venue if one can be found. Apart from that, the only information I have (and the first intimation I had about the changes proposed for the Theatre Bar) came from an e-mail circulated by Tony Day to Anchor Middle Bar Singers after he'd been out for a drink with Steve. Tim Edwards and I have both conveyed our views to Alan on the likelihood of the Theatre Bar being a satisfactory venue for a transposed Volunteer lunchtime session, and the case for a genuine singaround. If regular habituees of the Theatre Bar singarounds want to make a case that they are a worthwhile contribution to the overall ambience of the festival and raise money through collections, then by all means contact the organisers to say so. But if people just want to slag off festival organisers please don't. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:05 PM Agreed - harping on about what crooks these guys are, and hw they are ripping us all off is a waste of breath - and it's not true either. Running a big festival must be a frightening thing to be doing, as well as a lot of hard work. Mistakes get made sometimes, that's all, and this seems like it might be one of them which can be avoided.
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:26 PM It is a lot of hard work - I'm not giving my name because of festival connections and working there etc (and no, I'm certainly not pretending to be anyone high up & important - I'm not, just....stuff) - one hell of a lot of work goes into organising Sidmouth, before during and after the festival. Yes, Steve and co do sometimes make bad decisions - and as with anyone in power, that is the point at which we say, calmly and helpfully, 'actually, I think that's not such a good idea, because.....' Then maybe we find out they have reasons for what theey are doing, or maybe they listen to us, or some other form of solution. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: alanww Date: 20 Mar 02 - 05:03 AM Hi McGrath. I can't seem to get your Alan Bearman clicky to work. What is his email address? And Kitty, I promise I won't be abusive. No-one could ever accuse me of that ...! Come all ye bold heroes, give an ear to my song ... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:19 AM The clicky was meant to be to Herga Kitty's post with Alan Bearman's address, but I put it in wrong. This should be better. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST,Declan Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:30 AM For me going to Sidmouth is a foreign holiday. I've been there for the last three years and have thouroughly enjoyed myself and intend to go back again this year (althought the clash of dates with Cambridge which I've been attending for a lot longer means I'll miss the first week-end). The loss of the Volunteer as a venue would be a big blow to the festival (whether or not it was a money spinner to the organisers in itself it did attract a lot of people to the Festival who presumably attended other pay in events as well). Even in my short time as a Sidmouth 'regular' I've seen a few venues disappearing. I found the ban on sessions during the day in the front part of the Anchor last year very irritating last year. There were a lot of people going round looking for places to play sessions and very few places available to do so. If the crowd from either the Volunteer or the Theatre Bar go and occupy the 'Swan' there'll hardly be anywhere left at all. It would be nice if the singers and players of tunes could co-exist in these locations, but this rarely seems to work out for whatever reason. I wonder if it would be possible for the organising Committee, Mrs Casey or whoever (I don't fully understand the relationship here and don't want to - the last thing I need when I'm on my holidays is to get involved in the local politics!) to put some pressure (or at least try to persuade) some more of the local pubs to allow sessions (tunes, singarounds or mixed) during the day. The more venues for 'fringe' activities, the more people will come to the festival, the more people come the more food and drink the pubs will sell etc. I've thouroughly enjoyed my occasional visits to the Volunteer lunch-time sessions, but I agree withe previous contributors that it can be a bit clannish. I've never felt comfortable in starting a song there myself - but thats probably as much my own fault as anything else. One thing I do find strange about the Volunteer is the way that they book in musicians to provide a break for the singers (its often the other way round here in Ireland) and then talk loudly all the way through the tunes (sometimes about how nice the music is) and all clap at the end. Some of us would like to be able to hear the tunes as well ! That said I'm looking forward to being back at Sidmouth and hope that a way can be found to accommodate everyone at what I think is a very special festival. Thanks to all the organisers and Volunteer Stewards for making it possible.
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: alanww Date: 20 Mar 02 - 11:28 AM Just emailed Alan Bearman, so let's see if he has anything to contribute! Perhaps he will give the actual position rather than all of us speculating. Fare thee well, my Julianna ...! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:05 AM now what? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:38 PM Sent my e-mail to Alan. Now I suppose we all sit back and await developments/ replies. Or do we keep people aware in the hope that the right thing is eventually done for both groups of performers???? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:30 AM The options seem to be: 1) Try to persuade Steve that the Volunteer sessions should move to a venue other than the Theatre Bar - seems unlikely to work if moving them to the Theatre Bar was Steve's game plan in the first place and the change of landlord at the Volunteer merely reinforced it. Also requires effort on the part of the organisers to find another and suitable venue. 2) Find another venue for the ex-Theatre Bar singarounds - preferably without requiring too much effort on the part of the organiseers, or interfering with other events. Trouble is, it needs someone local or officially involved with the festival to check what venues are available and would welcome that sort of singaround. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: JudeL Date: 24 Mar 02 - 09:45 AM Re: option 1) if the Volunteer session is moved to the Theatre bar it will lose the character that makes it so attractive to those that currectly go to it simply by virtue of the type of venue, viz the Volunteer is a pub session and the Theatre bar will not support that atmosphere in the same way a pub does. This will be true even without the possibility that Steve Heap etc may decide to restrict access to season ticket holders only. So effectively under option 1) the Volunteer session as we know it would cease to be, it may be replaced by something else that takes place in the Theatre bar but it would be something very different. Note, this is without the issue of finding an alternative venue for the original Theatre bar singaround. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: JudeL Date: 24 Mar 02 - 09:47 AM Sorry got that last post arse about face should have said re option 2). *G* |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:08 AM So is it Steve Heap or Alan Bearman who makes the decisions on this? Whom is it worth writing to? It sounds as if the idea is to use the traditional night in the Theatre Bar on the last night of Sidmouth as the template for the lunchtime event. In which case it just isn't going to work, it's a good night, but the venue is wrong, and people only put up with it because it is the last night and a special event, and hardly any paying customers in there anyway.
I suspect we'll end up with a non-starter official event in the Theatre Bar, and two more fringey sessions for survivors from the two one's that are being displaced. If the singaround does have to shift, the two options I'd see as most viable would be somewhere in the Rugby Club, or in the Sailing Club.
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:47 AM Jude You and Kevin are right about the change in atmosphere, but I don't think you can describe an event hosted by booked MCs (Dan Quinn or John Howson) with booked festival guests as a non-starter, even if it turns out to be rather cliquey. It might be interesting to see how the participants feel about repeating it the following year. (Also, who from the Volunteer do you think would start another session somewhere else?) The Rugby Club was being used for other events - storytelling and concerts - at lunchtime last year. Another point is that in theory (and the programme) there were two Theatre Bar singarounds - the 10.30-12 and the 12-2 - and I don't know if there's any other venue that would accommodate a singaround lasting that long Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Mar 02 - 12:06 PM I've never explored the Rugby Club, but it's a biggish building, and I was wondering if there might be somewhere in there which would fit the bill.
Non-starter might not be quite the right word. What I mean is, if they think that the atmosphere of the Friday Night Theatre Bar farewell is going to be carried over into lunchtime sessions in there, I think there's a disapointment in store.
I was wondering if they've ever thought of taking a leaf out of Whitby and seeing if the Conservative Club might be a possible Festival venue for some events. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 24 Mar 02 - 01:20 PM I might make some enquiries next time I'm down, the drinks are very cheap and they do have suitable facilities.Cllr |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: JudeL Date: 24 Mar 02 - 01:43 PM I didn't say that a session run by the people from the volunteer with guest artists would be a non-starter but I stand by my statement that it would not be a transplanted volunteer session. It might attract different people but it would be, by the nature of the venue, so different that it is unlikely to appeal to the original crowd that enjoyed the volunteer session. Those displaced from the volunteer would probably still be looking for an alternative venue (in a pub), so we then have two groups looking for a new venue not just one! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 24 Mar 02 - 02:37 PM Sorry if I attributed any of McGrath's comments to Jude or the other way round. Cllr - if Ivan (former landlord of the Dove) is still at the Conservative Club, this might be worth checking out. Except of course that Ivan never heard us singing.... Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 24 Mar 02 - 03:30 PM Ivan and Janet may have even moved to the Conservative Club to escape the Folkies |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Mar 02 - 03:54 PM I see from the News that his nibs IDS has said that the Tories are now the party of the vulnerable people and the excluded. Which certainly makes sense - but if they want to look outwards from timew to time that should also make them want to welcome folkies. Nobody loves us either.
Experience from Whitby is that it doesn't actually take the edge of the politics when it comes to songs. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:21 PM And to avoid misunderstandings, I'm just talking about them maybe allowing us in the clubhouse to play music and that. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 24 Mar 02 - 07:07 PM Ivan and Janet moved from the Dove because the brewery imposed a massive and unaffordable hike in the rent. As far as I can remember they were extremely friendly to festival goers - I certainly can't remember any other Dove landlord treating the customers to free smoked salmon on toast and bubbly. But I don't suppose that policy on use of Conservative Club premises is determined by the person who runs the bar anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 27 Mar 02 - 09:11 PM The Rugby Club used to be a nice, friendly semi-fringe venue. Last year it had been Heaped and you had to pay (or have a season) to stick your head round the door and see what was going on. I don't think it's a goer for fringe folkies Another pub for the Volunteer mob is a workable option. Has anyone approached/considered the Cricket Club as a possible venue for the displaced TB singers? They have a decent bar/ cafe area and are always willing to make a bob or two for their club? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 27 Mar 02 - 09:15 PM PPS Don't take over the Sailing Club. We had some terrific tune sessions there last year. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST,GeorgeH (guesting) Date: 16 Apr 02 - 07:38 AM I'm puzzled to hear that Sidmouth lost "lots" of money last year; it seemed pretty well attended and there were no weather problems . . However, whatever the reasons, I'd already picked up that they had some venue problems for "smaller" events this year. One thing which hasn't been mentioned - if you transport the Volunteer sessions to the Theatre bar you won't get everyone in, as I recall . . . Although the theatre bar isn't much smaller than the Volunteer, it lends itself less well to packing people in (with the serving hatches at either end . . and I can't see the Manor Pavillion wanting to loose their mid-day food trade). Also - is the Manor Pavillion 'meeting room' in use at lunch times? If so, it will be disturbed by the bar crowd if the bar is packed out; if not, couldn't it be the answer to the problem? Oh, and the Rugby Club has been used for 'programmed events' for many years - and as far as I recall (from talking to the chief stewards there) there was no change in the pattern of its use between 2000 and 2001. When its use was extended it was because of the shortage of venues for workshop-type events rather than anything else. I have VERY little time for those who complain IN GENERAL about Steve Heap trying to make money at Sidmouth - the guy's hardly in the chaufered Rolls-Royce class, and if the Festival doesn't make a profit then it simply disappears. (Like everyone else, I reserve the right to disagree strongly with 'specifics' of his arrangements, though!) G. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Apr 02 - 07:53 AM Just bought my ticket for this year, having hesitated because of this (the price shoots up from April 30th). What decided it was hearing that the Carnevale of Ponte Caffaro will be performing. They are worth the price on their own.
I don't know if there's any hope of a rethink on this botched idea about the Volunteer and the Theatre Bar, or any further ideas for salvaging something from it. There have been some good suggestions, but I don't know if anyone has passed them on or if they are being explored. Colonising the Conservative Club is one I made, and it could have some advantages, given the precedent of Whitby. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Gervase Date: 16 Apr 02 - 08:06 AM I take on board what you say, George, but the fact that he's got a personalised number plate on his car does seem a bit naff! Not that I'll be contributing much to the Mrs Casey Coffers this year. I've just got my stewarding ticket through - and 35 hours of volunteer work during the festival seems a fair exchange for a free festival ticket and camping. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Apr 02 - 01:33 PM I send Sidmouth an email abouit this, and have just got this reply from Seve Heap Regarding the Volunteer, Theatre Bar etc. we are still working on it. We do have some provisional plans in place. With the changeover of landlord at the Volunteer we need to consider a variety of changes and decisions have yet to be complete, when these are in place we will get back to you. About your idea of the Conservative Club, we once tried to work with them and they were not particularly co-operative and were only interested in money changing hands. So it sounds as if there might still be some room fir maneouvre. Maybe worth a few more emails.
And here is the relevant bit from my email:
I gather there are plans to move the traditional session from the Volunteer to replace the singarounds in the Theatre Bar. I predict this just won't work, and urge people to think again about it. If it hadn't been for Ponte Caffaro coming I think I would have packed in Sidmouth after many years as a season ticket holder, because of this proposal. If the Volunteer is not going to be available there are other pubs which well could be, which wold mean that the popular singing sessions in the Theatre Bar - which is not the right place for the Volunteer session - could be left undisturbed. If there is a shortage of venues, has the idea of negotiating with the Conservative Club been considered? This has worked very well in Whitby over the years.
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Tattie Bogle Date: 19 Apr 02 - 07:56 PM According to recent "Sidmouth Herald" there is to be a new landlord at "the Vol", and I imagine he/she will not say no to the prospect of folkie beer and cider consumption. I agree that buying a season ticket allows greater flexibility: on one evening I went to 4 different concerts and saw all the bits I wanted to see without having to make difficult choices about who not to see! And I don't think I would have attended so many good workshops on a "pay as you go" basis. Comparing with other forms of entertainment eg. £40 now for 80 minutes of international rugby, I don't think £124 for a whole week's worth is that bad, but then I'm not paying for a whole family. Tattie B |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 20 Apr 02 - 09:00 AM Thanks for the updates, McGrath and Tattie B. Interesting to hear that Steve is still talking "provisionally". At least if the Volunteer's open there'll be somewhere for the Ashby de la Zouch folk club to meet on the first Friday! Adult season tickets go up from £124 to £146 on 1 May - but if you leave it until you get to the festival they'll cost £165. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 20 Apr 02 - 09:07 AM Oh, and the former landlord of the Anchor has volunteered to check out the Volunteer and see how the land lies, and report back to the Middle Bar Singers. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 20 Apr 02 - 08:14 PM I have looked at the line-up. There's nothing I haven't seen before so the season is NOT good value for me. I may pop down and see what's going on in the town. One friend that has attended Sidmouth for many years took his first look at the line-up and sighed. Then said that he was beginning to think that a season was poor value, so I'm not the only one to think this way. I'll be in Broadstairs the following week watching acts in comfort and sharing a bevy with them on the LEVEL campsite. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Apr 02 - 08:51 PM Well the Ponte Caffaro Carnival lot are going to be there, and they make it worth going to Sidmouth even if there was nothing else there this year. And there are two sound clips on that link if anyone needs convincing of that. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST,MBS Lynne Date: 21 Apr 02 - 06:26 AM In case anyone hasn't heard, we just had an e-mail from Said former Anchor Landlord to say that the Volunteer re-opened last night. He will drop in for a pint later in the week and report back. So whatever happens to Volunteer and Theatre Bar sessions (hopefully they will remain the same) The Ashby comes to Sidmouth session on the first Friday night should hopefully still take place in the Volunteer garden. All welcome. And just to continue a bit of the thread from earlier....as a very long standing Sidmouth regular, we stopped buying season tickets three years ago, with some regret, because, as a family of four now instead of young free single folkies, we simply can't afford it. The thing I miss most about having a season ticket (perhaps the only thing) is the community atmosphere of the festival camp-site. For me, everything else continues much the same... The Middle Bar goes on! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Herga Kitty Date: 21 Apr 02 - 12:46 PM Well, I've sent off for a ticket - Ponte Caffaro had better be good! Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Tattie Bogle Date: 23 Apr 02 - 07:19 PM Thanks for the link, McGrath or should we now call you Mardi Gras?? Interesting to hear the sound clips and the comment that they sounded a little English, as they reminded me of some of the material we play in the Sidmouth Big Band with Nick and Mary Barber. Undoubtedly Ponte Caffaro will be a highlight of the week, but what about more publicity for the "Big Band"? we hardly got a mensh last year: we thought of changing the name of the band to "Smashing Plectrums" after a certain guitarist went through three in an afternoon! Tattie B |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: sponge Date: 24 Apr 02 - 07:15 PM Sidmouth didn't 'lose' money last year, due to Foot and Mouth restrictions it just didn't make as much as it forecast..... S |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: vectis Date: 24 Apr 02 - 07:21 PM Foot and Mouth didn't affect other town based festivals so why did it affect Sidmouth? Others had increased takings not losses. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: Gervase Date: 25 Apr 02 - 07:06 AM Dunno about the apparent health of the festival's finances, but it does seem that some regulars have started voting with their feet. Closing date for steward applications is the end of March, and Mrs Casey always claims that more applications are received than can ever be accommodated. Yet yesterday (24 April) on the u.k.m.f. newsgroup, we get: WANTED : Volunteer Stewards for this year's Sidmouth International Festival 2-9 August 2002.
Join us for a spectacular summer holiday with great music, song and dance set in the seaside town of Sidmouth in Devon, England, UK.
You too could help! All you need is enthusiasm, a tent, team spirit and your bus fare to Sidmouth.
You can download an application form at www.sidmouthfestival.com or contact Jess Adams, Festival Office, PO Box 296, Matlock, Derbyshire, DE4 3XU, +44 (0)1629 760888 stewards@sidmouthfestival.com |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 02 - 07:38 AM They want a bloody site more than a FEW hours work mate. By the time I finished my afternoon shifts it was too late to eat and get into popular venues. If I didn't eat my chances were higher but not guaranteed. I spent most of my week there working or visiting free events. I could have done a lot more had I been a dancer but I'm not. Needless to say I don't steward any more. Disgruntled. ps before anyone asks, yes I did tell the organisers and no I didn't get any feedback from them. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: GUEST,Peter from Essex Date: 25 Apr 02 - 03:39 PM Pretty much my experience too. When I gave up I decided that Mr Storey was a more deserving recipient of my tickjet money. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Sidmouth Theatre Bar hijacking From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 02 - 05:26 PM By which Peter means Whitby Folk Week |
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