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BS: Some people should be denied parenthood!
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Subject: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Pseudolus Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:16 PM Needed to vent, or maybe I need to find out if it's ME that's crazy here but if you are so inclined, let me know what you think..... I am a parent of a 7th grade athelete. Obviously she's a lot more than that, athelete that is, but it's that part of her life that the story deals with. As the parent of a kid who is playing as part of a team (basketball in this case) I believe I have certain responsibilities not just to my kid but her teammates as well. We are there to support, teach and cheer our kids. Coaches count on us to back them up with teaching the game, sportsmanship and what it means to be on a team. I don't mean to state these as facts, they are actually my opinions..... Anyway, on Friday night, my daughter played in a tourneyment game and they were thouroughly outplayed. My daughter did not have her best game offensively but she was right on defensively but alas, their opponent was stronger, deeper and they won. In the fourth quarter, the other team played the bottom of their bench and the final score (33 - 25) did not reflect how close the game was....with their starters, they could have finished 43 - 25. Be that as it may, I was honest with my daughter and told her that although it was not her best effort offensively, her defense was great, her overall effort was there but this was the best team she played all year, and she should absolutley (along with her teammates) hold her head high. Yesterday I find out that the couch's wife, told her daughter that my daughter was the reason they lost the game. Her daughter agreed (imagine that!) and asked her Mom if she could tell Mandy. She told her yes! Before this could happen Mandy heard about it and told me. I asked her if she told her daughter that and she did not deny it. Now, I am of the belief that teams either win together or they lose together. If one of the kids on the team had that opinion of Mandy, although I would have disagreed regardless of who was being blamed, it would have been easier to take. But this was a parent, encouraging her kid to pass on the opinion that SHE thought that Mandy and Mandy alone was responsible for the loss. Even if she WAS responsible, which she wasn't, to say it in front of Mandy's teammates in my opinion is down right irresponsible.
I realize that this isn't like as big an incident as the hockey dads but I DO think that closed minded thinking that my daughter couldn't POSSIBLY be to blame it must be somebody else is the kind of thinking that can lead to bigger incidents. I explained to Mandy that no one player loses a game, nor does any one player WIN a game. She's ok with it but at first was hurt that a parent would say that. Oh well, enough venting for now....... Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Clinton Hammond Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:19 PM Angels and ministers of grace, defend us... from sport-moms... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:40 PM An analogy: I coached an academic team once. The particular exercise was to use brain storming and go around to each team member in succession for input. When a member of one team "choked," the other team members did not hide their frustration, made sarcastic comments about their team member, and in short had a "melt down." Another team had the same thing happen, showed support and encouragement, CLASS with a capital C. I believe these two attitudes come from the top, the coach, and it's just inexcusable to allow the team to fall apart. The coach in your case was definitely wrong. Not only was it hurtful to your daughter (and just plain wrong), it was also hurtful to the team (and just plain stupid). *Feel free to show this to the coach. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Steve Latimer Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:54 PM I hear you. Both of my children are involved in Rep Sports. Some of the parents are insane. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM Definitely not cricket. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Don Firth Date: 18 Mar 02 - 04:22 PM No team player wins or loses a game all by himself or herself. There's nothing wrong with Mandy, even if she was having an off night. She was on the team, and I presume she wouldn't have been there if the coach didn't think she could do the job. If the coach thought she was was not up to it (and assuming he had a strong emotional investment in winning, whether the kids were having fun or not), he should have pulled her then and put somebody else in. Sounds to me like the coach and/or his wife was trying to find an excuse for losing the game and needed someone to blame it on. Pathetic!! When parents (and coaches) get so involved in winning and losing that the kids wind up getting dumped on, I think that's kind of sick. Many a great sandlot baseball game or soccer game occurs when it's organized and played by the kids themselves, without a parent in sight. Whatever happened to the idea that sports are supposed to be fun? When cut-throat attitudes and tactics trickle down to kids' sports, sumpin's pretty damned wrong. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: RichM Date: 18 Mar 02 - 05:11 PM My son, now 22, was involved in team sports throughout his school life...So I think I understand what's going on here. Moms, Dads, it's up to YOU to show by your reaction that winning or losing at sports isn't that important. Tell your child, that you feel he/she did their best, and ignore the comments.
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Mar 02 - 05:22 PM Michael's Soccer coach said to the boys at practice the other night that he was really happy with how well they were doing (they're pathetic) and how hard they were working (they are) and that he knew this would be a successful season even if they didn't win a game......My kinda' coach! I've been involved in sports that are very competitive and the best we have ever done is when we are doing our best, trying to give 100%, and having fun. Win or lose, those were always the best times. I think you can learn to be a better team player if you have been involved in solo activities or sports too. You can see the effort it takes to do well alone and then multply it by X number of people.......You'll learn right away that you're harder on yourself. Tell the Mom and Coach to get a grip and have their kid take up golf.....or Handball.....or Squash......or Tennis. Tell them to do the same......and get out of coaching altogether. I feel for you Frank....and your daughter too. Lots of real jerks out there aren't there? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Wesley S Date: 18 Mar 02 - 05:46 PM Sports bring out the best and worst in people. But you've been given a great opportunity to explain what sportsmanship REALLY is. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: greg stephens Date: 18 Mar 02 - 05:55 PM Perfectly simple. Have nothing whatsoever to do with any organised team sports, ever. I can think of loads of alternative activities that are far more fun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 02 - 06:22 PM Disorganised team sports, now they can be fun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Mark Cohen Date: 18 Mar 02 - 07:29 PM Frank, you're not crazy, you're right, and what you said to your daughter was right. Maybe you could send the story to Dear Abby and then post her answer on the team bulletin board... Another idea might be to do an informal poll of the other team parents and see what their feelings are. If they agree with you (which I hope they do), then bring it up at a team meeting. This kind of behavior is inexcusable, but it's also regrettably common, and many people think it's fine to abuse kids in this way. (I use the word "abuse" intentionally, because that's what it is.) I think this woman--and the coach, if he supports her behavior--need to be called on it, and stopped. But you're in a better position if you have the rest of the team parents on your side. And Greg, I think your "perfectly simple" solution, while it makes some sense, is also simplistic. Sure, there are alternatives to organized sports, and they should be encouraged. But simply boycotting sports doesn't take into account the many benefits of sports participation for children. It's certainly true that there are lots of immature adults who act like this woman, or even worse. But the answer should be education, reorganizing the programs to encourage cooperation and participation over winning (the American Youth Soccer Organization does a creditable job of this, in my opinion), and setting a good example for both kids and parents--not throwing out the whole program because some people misuse it. That doesn't do the kids a service either. Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Bobert Date: 18 Mar 02 - 07:37 PM Now I get it! I'm a Washington Bullets (Wizzards?) fan and every year ends with all the players pointing fingers and blaming one another. These kids are just being groomed for the pros. Jus' funnin', but this cycle of having to win, win, win, takes the enjoyment out of playing. You can show this post to Coach, too, Frank. But more importantly, let your daughter read this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Mar 02 - 08:21 PM Children need to play. If sport is a form of play for them, that's great, and for some children it can; and play can be serious enough and hard work too, we all know that with music too.
But if sport becomes something that doesn't centrally involve play, it's not a pretty or healthy thing for children. Especially when parents get involved in competing with each other through the medium of their children. (And sometimes when children start competing with each other through the medium of their parents as well.)
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: GUEST,Nick Date: 18 Mar 02 - 08:46 PM Some people should be denied parent hood... But once they are born it gets tougher to take the parents away from them. Do the words "Tempest in a Tea Pot." Strike a chord here? The kid will learn to win, to lose, to deal with people not like them... Perhaps it is someone a bit older who needs a time out? The both of you adults on thge stairs for quiet time. Nick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Irish sergeant Date: 18 Mar 02 - 08:51 PM Frank: You are not the crazy one. The comments made about your daughter were rude, insensitve and showed that the person making them lacked any sense of sportsmanship or class. As McGrath of Harlow states Children need play they don't need rude and borderline psychotic sports parents. Fortunately, your daughter did not endure seeing a teammates parent otr a teammate physically abuse as did the hockey player in Massachussetts. I think you handled the situation with wisdom, grace and class, Kindest regards, Neil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: SINSULL Date: 18 Mar 02 - 09:53 PM Frank, You have my sympathy. I was the weird parent who applauded for both teams at baseball, hockey. basketball, etc. Maybe if a $31 million dollar contract was involved, I would take it more seriously. But at 9, 10, 11, whatever, every kid needs to be encouraged. Mandy sounds pretty level-headed. And she is hearing the right things from you. Mrs. Coach needs to get a life. Don't let her keep you from enjoying the game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Pseudolus Date: 18 Mar 02 - 10:35 PM You guys are great! Thanks! I agree, Mandy has handled this well and most of her teammates have come to her defense. Last night was in fact the last game of the year so luckily for all of us the season is over. It's funny this should happen now. I have always felt that I could coach especially at Mandy's level. I felt if I could TEACH rather than coach, help them learn the game, good sportsmanship and how to have fun doing it. I thought if I focused on that, learning, and made it fun, then I was already successful. So, I volunteered to coach in Mandy's softball league this summer because her and her sister Kelsey would be in the same age group allowing me to coach them both on the same team. Well before this happened I had a parents meeting and told them where my focus would be. I got an overwhelming vote of approval. I talked to my assistant coach tonight and without even knowing what happened yesterday he said, "ya know, I really think we need to make this fun, because if we do, at this age, they won't even realize they're learning!" What a guy!! Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: khandu Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:02 PM ASSWHOLES! The world is filled with Asswholes who do not take responsibility themselves, and look for someone else to blame. (Actually, most of us have fit in this category sometime in our lives, but others make it a lifestyle.) The game was lost. Blame it on someone. Surely the coach bears no responsibility for the loss. Yeah, I know...let's blame that girl. The coach's duty is not to have a "winning" team, though that would be good. His/her duty is to coach the team members to have a winning attitude, in spite of any losses they may incur. This responsibility is to the team and to each member of the team. You are correct, some people do not deserve to be parents. And many damned well do not have enough integrity and character to be a coach. Asswholes! khandu |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: alison Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:11 PM a few years ago my son was playing soccer (team of 6 year olds).... he tried hard..... they all tried hard...... but some of the parents were scary!!... One of the little boys got hit hard square in the face with the soccer ball... and started to cry (I probably would have done the same)..... instead of comforting him the father yelled "Stop that crying or you'll end up being a dancer!!".... these were 6 year old kids!!.... other parents were encouraging their kids to go out and foul "if you can't get the ball, take their legs from under them!!".... what sort of an example are we teaching??? slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Nigel Parsons Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:41 AM To quote Grantland Rice For when the One Great Scorer comes To write against yor name, He marks - not that you won or lost - But how you played the game |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 02 - 08:42 AM some people shouldn't play sports |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Steve Latimer Date: 19 Mar 02 - 08:59 AM Nigel, Thanks for that reminder. My kids both play Hockey & Lacrosse, both pretty physical, tough games where injuries can occur even when playing by the rules. But some of these kids are taught to play dirty and that drives me crazy. Perspective. What a concept. A couple of weeks ago my ten year old son was playing a playoff game that if they won would have advanced them to the next round. With about two and half minutes to go and us leading two boys collided, it was a complete accident but their player went down hard and hit his head, hurt his neck and was taken away by ambulance. The game was resumed and we won. One of our parents said, boy that sort of dampens the victory. I guess my thought was would she have cared one way or the other if it was her son who was being loaded into an ambulance with a neck brace on. Fortunately it turns out that the boy was fine, just some strained muscles. I played hockey my whole life and at a level higher than most, I was recrutited by several U.S. Colleges, tried out in a Minor Pro league etc. Over the years I played with and against some very good players. Some of them made it to the NHL. But I want to take all of these parents who think that their son is the next Wayne Greatzky and show them pictures of all of the teams that I played for saying "See that guy? the best defenceman in Toronto up until the age of 13, he didn't grow", see that guy? lead the league in scoring for a number of years, apparently he's the town drunk in a northern Ontario town etc., etc. I could do that with every team picture that I have from my days in the MTHL and the OHA.
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: greg stephens Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:20 AM There's a breathless hush in the close tonight/ Ten to make and the match to win/ A bumping pitch and a blinding light/ An hour to play, and the last man in/ And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat/ Or the selfish hope of a season's fame/ But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote/ "Play up! Play up! And play the game/ ....er running out of memory here tumti tumti tumti tum gatling's jammed and the colonel's dead.....the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks/ "Play up! Play up! And play the game". Yes, indeed, stick to cricket and you'll be all right. And with the added advantage that if the fuzzywuzzies break the square ( and let's face it that's quite possible in the very immediate future) we'll all know what to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: SharonA Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:22 AM Wow. I wonder how much experience Mrs. Coach has at being a coach's wife (is she still learning, or is this long-standing, entrenched behavior?). Sounds like she was putting family loyalty first: she might have felt uncomfortable assessing Hubby's coaching in front of their daughter or assessing the daughter's performance, so she took the easy way out of an awkward family situation by placing blame on another player. That certainly doesn't make her action "right" – she should have displayed better sportsmanship and used the opportunity to impart a lesson about team spirit when the chips are down – but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than a spot of trouble in that home and Mrs. Coach was trying to preserve whatever shred of family harmony might be left there. Just a theory! The bottom line, though, is what the Coach said to his daughter about the game. Is he bad-mouthing certain players on the team, behind their backs, to other players? I think a chat needs to be had with both Mr. and Mrs. Coach, and Mr. Coach needs to be made aware of what his wife is saying to one of his players so that he can coach her and their daughter in good-sportsmanship skills (or, if he's doing some bad-mouthing himself, then the other team-parents need to coach all three of them!). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:38 AM Now people often ascribe that poem Greg quoted to Rudyard Kipling - which is unfair (it was Sir Henry Newbolt). He summed up his views on the subject of sport like this:
Then ye returned to your trinkets; then ye contented your souls |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: greg stephens Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:40 AM Unfair to Kipling or to Newbolt? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: Steve in Idaho Date: 19 Mar 02 - 10:06 AM The world is full of people. Some good and some bad. It is all in one's perspective how we view them. Kids need to learn to deal with all types. This Mom is one of those types we'd like to have our kids not have to deal with but they are out there. At some point your young lady will have a supervisor, or other authority figure, in her life that will be as negative as this one. Our job as parents is to help our kids learn to cope with all of the adversity's life deals them. It sounds to me like you did that and your daughter came out the better for the experience. I don't see it as bad - I see it as an opportunity to help your child continue to grow and excell as a human being. To learn forgiveness and new ways to cope with life's little lessons is a valuable thing. Sounds weird but you ought to thank the Mom for giving you this opportunity to further the closeness between you and your daughter. Doesn't mean you have to like or associate with the mom but it certainly would reframe what the mom said and the impact it had on you and yours. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: The Shambles Date: 19 Mar 02 - 10:16 AM I think it was a pretty good film, one of Steve Martin's best. It should not be denied to people, more like required watching. If I remember, it did cover the sporting aspect quite well? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: The Shambles Date: 23 Mar 02 - 05:27 AM Sorry, my last post appeared to have killed this thread. That was not the intention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: SharonA Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:16 PM Shambles: Actually, the thread seemed to have died a natural death... or at least was unconscious for a while... Anyway, I'd like to hear the follow-up story from Pseudolus about whether anyone spoke with the coach's daughter concerning team spirit and the negative effects of placing blame for a loss on one's teammate. It's cool that Mandy learned a valuable life-lesson, but I shudder to think what her teammate's mom – and maybe dad, too – taught their daughter! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Some people should be denied parenthood! From: GUEST,DD Date: 30 Mar 02 - 01:53 AM Some people should not post to the mudcat. |