BS: What price friendship?

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST,DW at work
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 09:45 AM

If you were certain that X was a safe bet, then why are you trying to make it entireley X's fault? Y isn't stupid are they?

I'd give X the benefit of the doubt, because it seems that after all this time, they would'nt be that vindictive would they?

DW

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 02 - 10:51 AM

So how do you think X and Y now feel about you washing your dirty linen in public before talking to them? Is this just a cry to get in first and get the sympathy on your side before one of them posts a similar thread called "Should I ditch the bastard?" revealing their side of the alleged conversation?

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST,Guest 123
Date: 18 Apr 02 - 05:23 AM

Surely, "Guest 17 Apr", you have missed the essential point of the first post, that it was X's "pre-emptive" strike that has caused all the problems, and heartache to Tiree and Y, If X had done what friends do, and not "told tales" then the situation would not have arisen in the first place, or at least not be of X's making.
The question concerned X's MOTIVES and INTENTIONS for action, and their view and definition of this long lasting "friendship". Surely X's actions in this context has (and would) make "Tiree" unlikely to conduct a reasonable conversation with X especially as it was X that started the "laundering of Dirty Linen" in the first place!!! and Tiree has not, significantly, , one surmises ,as yet "laundered X's Dirty Linen"

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Apr 02 - 05:19 PM

"I am trying to decide if X is just terminally stupid and unaware of the consequences of their actions, and therefore has no idea of the extent to which this action has hurt Y and myself, or is a vicious, nasty, vengeful, spiteful person lashing out because life is not treating them well just now and they want to share the hurt they feel around" - Did you consider the option that others have posted, that X was not being vindictive, but misinterpreted and is just as hurt by this as yourself and Y?

So did you speak to X or Y yet?

GUEST

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: sponge
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 06:30 PM

consider this... A is up before the beak. The beak says "what was your friend Y doing on the 31st october last" A thinks hard and says "I am not going to answer that your honour on grounds that I may incriminate myself" because A knows damn well what was going on and the beak shouldn't know cos his friend Y will be going down for a long stretch. Lets apply this to your little scenario. Y asked X some questions that X couldn't/Wouldn't answer cos they would implicate YOU in somthing (who cares what). Y, being an intelligent sort of person adds 3 and 3 to get 14, says ta v. much to X and proceeds to take action in your (presumed) absence based on info Y has NOT been told but has WORKED OUT for themselves. You then loose off in a public forum which you know both X and Y frequent - VERY bad form old chap, after all they havn't yet posted the "should I ditch the bastard" thread.

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: SharonA
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:23 PM

Sponge: Do we know that X and Y frequent this forum?

Ever since this thread was created, I've been wondering whether "Tiree" is the same person who posted a similar thread some months ago, to the effect that (s)he was hesitant to attend a regularly-held song session because of some unexplained tiff that (s)he had had with some other Mudcatters. Said person was then criticized in some posts to that thread that said, essentially, "We know who you are; the problem is your fault; stop lying, stop being a coward, and make things right."

I don't remember the title of that thread, though, nor exactly when it was posted (I know it was sometime after June 2001, 'cause I wasn't here before then!).

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:45 AM

A good example of why some people should not become emotionally attached to anything or anyone. They are unable to cut the ties that bind even when the realtionship is distructive.

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:51 AM

What about Z? I assume this is over Z. Or am I alphabetically challenged here?

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST,bitter experienced
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:56 AM

What price indeed! I forgotten who or what X & Y did but when a friend does the dirty on another well thats it as far as I'm concerned. From bitter experience, I can promise you that it's just not worth it. Keep to your own council and don't trust people cos they only let you down. opening up on forum like this only makes things worse cos you wont get the responses you need and X can post and be nasty to you - and thats the last thing you want. Best bet is mark it up to experience, others have to make their own judgements on how they see X - but on a personal note I don't like her - attention seeking, but perhaps with problems I don't know about.

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: sponge
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 06:47 PM

Sharon A : Tiree knows that X and Y frequent the cat. Mr Red: Z does figure. Bitter Experience: The point is "the dirty" may have been done by a sin of omission rather than on purpose by X - a point carefully avoided so far in the thread. X may have been trying to protect Tiree by not answering certain direct questions put to them by Y, but Y worked out the answers by inference anyway and took appropriate action. It sounds like a real mess and should be noted by ALL concerned as a road not to be travelled again. Tiree should see all views of the play and rather than remaining vexed should try to talk the other side of the story with either X or Y rather than shouting from the rooftops. If this is not possible then everyone looses.

No, I am not Z.

Sponge

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: GUEST,Beardyman
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 05:22 AM

Talking from a psychologist's point of view.....

Maybe "Tiree" knows they were doing wrong by Y with the hypothetical Z who probably does exist and is also probably telling "Tiree" they are better off without either X or Y. If Y has identified a pattern in "Tiree"s behaviour, higlighted by a conversation with X, then that could explain everything. You know how you look at a picture of two men looking at each other for weeks and then suddenly one day it becomes a candlestick?

This whole thing is getting beyond reason, and "washing the dirty linen" as someone else put it, no matter whose it is, just makes it more and more difficult for either party to talk to the other. For instance, someone believes they have identified X and formed an opinion of 'her', believing 'her' to be attention seeking but with some problems.... This will put X on the defensive and if they do have problems, make them even more unstable than they may already be.... self esteem is a very fragile thing and you, along with "Tiree" could have done severe psychological damage to X and Y. X knows they are not entirely innocent, has "Tiree" given them a chance to explain or apologise? Or maybe X is so pissed off with "Tiree"s behaviour that they are glad not to have to bother talking with them.

So, what about Y? Does Y not have any issues? It seems that Y told "Tiree" where to go and what to do there, would they have done that with no reason? And how about the relationship between X and Y? I would suggest that Y is in need of a conversation with X as well, if indeed they haven't already communicated. I'm sure if X knew how much Y would be hurt as well, then X would have held back. But if a troubled X knew that Y also had problems, would the considerate thing be to alert Y to "Tiree"'s alleged behavioural pattern and get the hurt over before it was too late and Y got too deeply involved?

It is human nature to try and make yourself the innocent party in all things, but there are times when you have to admit, firstly to YOURSELF that you are not innocent. You may have been wronged, but bad things happen to good people a lot more often than you would credit. If you have formed a pattern in your lifestyle, which is very hard to break, despite other commitments, then you have to realise that sometimes others will not see that pattern as an acceptable way of life. If "Tiree"'s behaviour was following the previous pattern then it is only to be expected that sooner or later someone emotionally involved with them is going to object.

Some examples: A is shagging B, but also shagging C. A boasts about it to D. A through to D all frequent the same social circles. D may not object to A's way of life, the odds are that at least one of the others will. It's only a matter of time before A gets caught out.

A is shagging B and C simultaneously, A's long term partner D having left, because A was shagging E, F and G. B knows about D, E, F and G, but not C. B converses with H, sees the pattern (remember the candlestick?), realises why D left and decides to ditch A, who appears to want their cake and eat it.

"Tiree" has to decide whether it's better to retrieve a longstanding friendship or rely on a passing shag. If someone has been friends with you for so many years, it's probably despite your failings and human frailties. A passing shag is just a passing shag and sooner or later, if there is no real bonding based on shared experiences, that shag will vanish, especially if you DO have a social behavioural pattern that you continue to follow. "Tiree"'s relationship with the hypothetical Z (who appears to be the only one they are speaking to) may not last so well when the next passing shag comes along. And Z may not be so tolerant as X appears to have been over the past however many years.

Subject: RE: BS: What price friendship?
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 11:10 AM

Wait a sec, Beardyman. Tiree never mentioned a "Z", hypothetical or otherwise. Some of the rest of us have, but Tiree has not. In fact, Tiree hasn't said much throughout this thread, except to reiterate that (s)he feels wronged by X because of X's "backstabbing action towards a friend of long standing".

We haven't heard anything at all from Tiree since the 12th of April, so we can only hope that (s)he is not still "stuck" in that cycle of blaming X for X's action, instead of thinking about what Tiree might have done to result in the action X took.