Singing with words: Where's it gone?

Subject: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 07:53 PM

Before I went to the pub tonight I noticed a thread called "Singing with words. Why?", or something very similar. I thought this might be an interesting topic for discussion. When I came back it had disappeared. I tried a 3 day refresh (sounds fun!) but there was still no sign of this thread. Tell me it's just alcohol induced myopia and it will be there again in the morning.

Cheers Captain

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 07:55 PM

It was alcohol induced myopia!!!!!

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 08:15 PM

Dis heer be it Capn suh?


Spaw

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 08:57 PM

Many thanks for finding that for me Spaw unfortunately you won't be able to find my glasses when I need them at 4am will you?

Cheers - Captain swing

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Genie
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 05:04 AM

Captain, You're not alone. Today I did a DT and forum search, then a forum search, for an old thread I had posted. First, I entered the exact thread name. Nothing. Then I tried key words separately. Again, the name of the thread in question did not come up.

Finally I found the thread--with the exact title as I had remembered it--among my 17 kazillion traced threads. I have no idea why a DT and forum search could not find it.

Genie

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 08:17 AM

Genie: rather than check thro' several kazillion threads (kazillion ? I know U.K. millions and U.S. millions are different, are you trying to confuse us poor Brits ?) why not run a check on your own postings instead (Currently running at just over 1050!)
I've just about stopped using 'trace' in favour of seeking my own postings. It can also help to start re-reading immediately after your last post to a thread.
Just a thought.

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 09:41 AM

If it's all right, I think I'll deal with the issue at hand. Not where it went. Thanks for posting this, as I hadn't read the original thread. Just like you can play all the notes of a song and never get the song, you can sing all the correct words to a song, and never get the feel or the heart of it. Until you completely internalize a song and make it yours, it's just words or notes. I sing in a Men's Gospel Chorus and we learn everything by heart.. our harmony lines and the words. Even before we start to learn a new song, we go through the words and speak them. I think that's a great approach to a song... speaking the words, rolling them around on your tongue and in your mind before you even sing them. It's all part of the process of making the song your own. Just my opinion.

Now, I've seen the opposite approach to music. I've met people who play piano and when I ask them to play something for me they say, "I ca'tl, I don't have any sheet music." At first, I used to be astonished when I heard that response and I ask them, "You mean you can't play the piano unless you have sheet music to tell you what to play?" And they say, "yes, I can't." There are people who are so used to reading music and words that they are helpless without them. I asked a couple of good singers if they could do a bass harmony on a couple of songs I was recording, and they said that they couldn't do it unless they had sheet music. I told them that I could record the bass harmony on a separate channel, so they could learn it by ear, but they said that they couldn't do it. Amazing, to me.

I agree... learn the words and live with them. Understand what you're singing and feel it. Then you can sing it for others, and they will hear the song with all the meaning that you put into it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 09:52 AM

G'day,

Er, excuse me Nigel Parsons, but a million is a million - one thousand thousands. There once was a difference between the definitions of a billion ... but that has now been standardised at a thousand billions (even if a great number of persons on one side of the Atlantic have not noticed any change in the 25 year old pocket Oxford propping up the cupboard.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 09:55 AM

Bob's right, Nigel - but look on the bright side. The government are taking a thousand times less in tax than you thought!

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: GUEST,Burke
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 12:29 PM

A billion is a thousand billion????

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 01:00 PM

The Digitrad and Forum Search is our most powerful search engine, but it depends on an index that must be manually generated. Sometimes, Max does not have time to update the index, and it goes untended for a time. Therefore, that search engine is not the best one to use to search recent threads. The filter and the forum search in the QuickLinks dropdown menu are much better for searching recent messages.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: breezy
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 04:11 PM

Singing with the words is like walking with a crutch.
throw away your crutch and crawl then walk then jog then run with the wind.
well said, Jerry

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 04:32 PM

"A billion is a thousand millions" That's deflation with a vengeance. Reducing a billion by a factor of 1000. Now if they'd do the same to the million I could be a millionaire.

But how do they do that? I didn't know thee was any body with the authority to wave a wand and change the meaning of a word.

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 11:31 PM

G'day Jerry,

The same reasoning that you apply to singing songs also applies to playing music. I always like to internalise something - song or tune - before I sing or play. Songs (and singing style) have always been memorised in the privacy of my car, which does lead to some odd looks in summer, when I forget the window is rolled down at the traffic lights! Books are invaluable resources to broaden the repertoire, not for anything more than a generalised 'prompt' when singing in public.

I also spend an inordinate time analysing tunes and working out the intricacies of extracting the full harmonies from the quirky layout of button accordion or Anglo concertins ... then ignore it once I'm actually playing! I also love good sessions ... winging it on my hearing of some other player playing tunes I may never have heard before.

All these approaches are in some measure contradictory ... yet also complementary. In the long run, you have to work with techniques that get you in and singing ... or playing ... but you are not really performing / entertaining / witnessing until you do it face to face with your audience, without words or dits getting in the way.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Singing with words: Where's it gone?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Apr 02 - 11:39 PM

Er ... G'day again,

Make that dots ...

and BTW: McGrath: Yes there is - it's the English-speaking public. All words float in the sea of current usage. When there is an irreconcilable difference between two usages, one of them will win out and displace the other ... otherwise we would live in Babel.

The problem is that you and I ... and the rest of the world's English-speakers all disagree on who makes up that group. However, you will find that Oxford has now accepted the "thousand million" definition of billion and only cites 'million million" historically.

(Do you want to discuss 'sulfur' ... program ... color or any of a long line of good Latin words?)

Regards,

Bob Bolton