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BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Apr 02 - 08:17 PM "An investigation would show whether or not atrocities were committed. That's a given, isn't it?" Unfortunately not. It'll provide additional evidence which might make it possible to determine what happened. But 30 years and there's still no unambiguous certainty about Bloody Sunday, and that was a much much smaller affair, and better documented at the time.
As for "ethnic cleansing", it doesn't seem that what happened in Jenin falls into that category. (But the reason the people involved were living in refugee camps in Jenin rather than in their homes back in Haifa - that was ethnic cleansing, if there ever has been ethnic cleansing.) But once again, though I have once again contributed to this thread, I think that if people want to continue discussing this whole issue it'd better be done in a new thread that didn't start off in a way that came across as racist and sectarian.
As Kipling put it:
That which is marred at birth Time shall not mend,
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: tremodt Date: 22 Apr 02 - 08:44 PM Dear Abby sorry I mean Guest Feder Todays news is reporting that there was war crimes commited in Jennin I gues that solves one question now the other one Will the Israeli soldiers be so charged Mr Fedder you there Mr Fedder?? Hallo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,mg Date: 22 Apr 02 - 08:45 PM my fears have been confirmed. They have pulled people alive out of the rubble..one was alive 9 days. Here is a URL.. http://www.hcef.org/news/news/NewsView.cfm?itemId=625&nType=News Friends don't let friends bury people alive. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: robomatic Date: 22 Apr 02 - 09:11 PM I think the charges of 'war crimes' were formulated ahead of the 'war' (Much like the formulation of this thread. The Palestinians went ahead and started a war ahead of declaring it, each homicide bomb a mini Pearl Harbor.
Now if they would only get themselves some uniforms. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 02 - 09:47 PM robomatic, do you really think the Palestinians knew ahead of time that the Israeli military was going to do what it did? I think you're the one who is grabbing a straws to support you bias. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 22 Apr 02 - 11:37 PM RO1SIN, please give us a source or two. It's easy to make unsubstantiated statements. You may listen to a news source that no one else listens to or that is so one-sided as to make it worthless as a legitimate source. Radio Jerusalem and Radio Ramalla are not likely to give unbiased reports. The Palestinians may not have known what the IDF would do but surely they knew that it would do something. The whole idea behind the homicidal suicide bombings was to provoke a strong response from the Israeli Government and try to turn world opinion against Israel and her chief supporter, the US. Pretty sucessful I'd say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 02 - 11:43 PM The whole idea behind the homicidal suicide bombings was to provoke a strong response from the Israeli Government and try to turn world opinion against Israel and her chief supporter, the US. Pretty sucessful I'd say. Are you stating that as opinion or fact? If you're stating it as fact, can you provide an unbiased source for that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,From one who has spent a few years in Palist Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:24 AM Is there a conparitive Arab work that compares to anti semetic? Dont critisize my spelling ,as a one finger typist,and long after my bedtime,I make mistakes. CNN is not a reliable news agentcy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:36 AM It is an opinion of course. How on earth could anyone prove such a thing short of the Palestinian Authority admiting it (which they would NEVER do). Why else would they do it? To focus world attention on their plight? They would be much more sucessful if they committed suicide in front of the Knesset, killing no one but themselves ala the Buddhist(sp?) monks who burned themselves to death to draw attention to conditions in Viet Nam in the 60's. No, I'll stand by what I said, opinion or not. I feel that it is a sensible explaination. The whole world now condemns Israel for reacting as it did. That, I think, is what the whole thing was and is about. The Palestinians hope that the UN or whoever will force Israel back to the old, indefensible pre-1967 borders, taking back Jerusalem, Samaria and Judea and setting the stage for the final destruction of the State of Isreal. This is an opinion,but theres plenty of evidence to back it up, not the least being the PLO Charter. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Marcus Black Wolf Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:38 AM Guest, Anti-Semitic can be used to refer to anti-Arab prejudice to, as both the Jews and Arabs are originally Semetic peoples -this can perhaps be seen as one of lifes little stabs of black humor if you think about it.
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:48 AM RO1SIN, I did a quick search of the news wires and found a story on AP where Amnesty Int> accussed Israel of war crimes but produced no proof of same. There was nothing on Reuters, UPI, ABC News,or The Guardian. There was a story on the Islamic Republic Wire that paralleled the AP story. Here is the link. click here As to the validity of Amnesty Intl.'s statement, time will tell. Since they present no evidence, their accusation has little basis in fact. I could, with equal justification, accuse you of being a spy for the British Government. I have no proof, but, hey! I can always retract the statement if events prove me wrong, and in the meantime... troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:44 AM Some different perspectives on the question of the Palestinian homeland... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,Lived in Palistine Date: 23 Apr 02 - 07:55 AM I dont like Jews ,I dont like Arabs, Idont like Japanese, I dont like French, I dont like Germanan,and I dont like the American gOVERMENT ,BUT i DO LIKE FAIRNESS ,aND i LOVE jUSTICE .If you think thats anti semetic that BUSHSHIT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Marcus Black Wolf Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:07 AM Marcus the Wolf begins to think Guest, lived in 'Palistine' is perchance living under a bridge at this moment if you dig my meaning people.
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:15 AM Carol, nicely done. I don't believe Mitchell Bard is the author of the last piece, however. I think that it is simply a piece of staff writing from those who maintain the Masada 2000 site. Bard is the author of "The Complete Idiots Guide to the Middle East Conflict". I have seen the maps and very similar text on another site. I cannot recall the name but it was something like the Zionist Education something or other. I'll try to find it again but I really can't guarantee it. Again, nice job. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,Feder Date: 23 Apr 02 - 09:20 AM According to RO1SIN: Todays news is reporting that there was war crimes commited in Jennin I gues that solves one question now the other one Will the Israeli soldiers be so charged Does RO1SIN make this stuff up? I have just been through the NY Times, I've watched the newscasts on CNN, NBC and CBS and none of them seem to have heard RO1SIN's "news." With this post, I'm pulling my plug on further participation here. While I have no problem with debate, debate is impossible when people like RO1SIN use the forum to spread hatred. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: artbrooks Date: 23 Apr 02 - 09:52 AM As of yesterday afternoon, the UN team that was going to Jenin to investigate the situation had been named, and the team leader said they expected to be on the scene later this week. How could someone definitively say "war crimes have been committed" before the neutral investigators arrive? Perhaps a non-neutral person? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: tremodt Date: 23 Apr 02 - 02:03 PM as one of the posters above said the was the fact thast war crime were committed Dpes any one here remember the girls school in Belfast that the students were stoned each morning they marched on that road It was suggested that they could have taken another road but they took the one they did to bring discredit to the Loyalist mob that was doing the stoning so that the attention and public opinion would be agsinst the Loyalists think of where the Irish problem would be now if we the USofA would have put as much input into ireland as we are in the mid east mainly Isreal I say let the Israelis solve their own problems but let them be responsible for their actions in world opinion |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: tremodt Date: 23 Apr 02 - 02:07 PM as one of the posters above said the was the fact thast war crime were committed Dpes any one here remember the girls school in Belfast that the students were stoned each morning they marched on that road It was suggested that they could have taken another road but they took the one they did to bring discredit to the Loyalist mob that was doing the stoning so that the attention and public opinion would be agsinst the Loyalists think of where the Irish problem would be now if we the USofA would have put as much input into ireland as we are in the mid east mainly Isreal I say let the Israelis solve their own problems but let them be responsible for their actions in world opinion |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:08 PM Well! I'm certainly glad you clarified that RO1SIN. Thanks for sharing your unique insights with the rest of us. It has increased our understanding of the problems in the Middle-East. I think. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: DougR Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:44 PM Well ...not really. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST, sumb'dy else Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:54 PM *wonders what kind of involvement RO1SIN would have the USofA have made in Norn Ireland?* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: tremodt Date: 23 Apr 02 - 10:26 PM I still cant wait for the findings of the UN in Jennin The Israelis said today that there was not enough Israelis on the investigative committee or some thing like that
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: tremodt Date: 23 Apr 02 - 10:54 PM Annan Rejects Jenin Mission Delay By EDITH M. LEDERER .c The Associated Press UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Tuesday refused Israel's demand to delay and change a U.N. fact-finding mission to the war-ravaged Jenin refugee camp, directing its members to arrive in the Mideast by Saturday. The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting after Israel sought a delay, saying it wanted more military and counter-terrorism experts added to the team and also wanted the group to investigate what it says are Palestinian terrorist activities in the camp. At the end of a nearly two-hour session, the council issued a statement saying it expects ``fast implementation'' of a resolution welcoming the fact-finding mission - and Israel's ``full cooperation'' with the secretary-general and the team. While the council was holding consultations, Israel's U.N. Ambassador Yehuda Lancry met Annan in his 38th floor office at U.N. headquarters to ask for changes in the team's composition and its scope of action, which Israel wants limited only to Jenin itself. An Israeli official in Jerusalem charged that the team was chosen by Annan without consulting Israel, as had been agreed, and the members were political, not from a military background as Israel had requested. A Western diplomat said Israel wants to negotiate terms for the team's activities in Palestinian areas, and wants one member removed, Cornelio Sommaruga, former president of the International Committee of the Red Cross. But Annan would not discuss his choice of team members, though he did not rule out adding additional experts if necessary, a statement from the U.N. spokesman said. Finnish Prime Minister Martti Ahtisaari, the team leader, was scheduled to fly to Geneva on Tuesday night and hook up with other members there on Wednesday. He was expecting to be in the Middle East by the end of the week. Arab nations have accused Israel of massacring Palestinian civilians in the camp, but Israel says the deaths and destruction resulted from gunbattles between its soldiers and Palestinian gunmen. The fighting in Jenin was the fiercest of Israel's 3-week-old military offensive. Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres gave a green light to the fact-finding mission on Friday saying the country had ``nothing to hide.'' The Security Council unanimously endorsed the mission. But Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's government objected to Annan's appointments announced on Monday. He named Ahtisaari, Sommaruga and Sadako Ogata, the former U.N. high commissioner for refugees. Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer on Monday night demanded that retired U.S. Maj. Gen. William Nash, who was appointed as military adviser, be made a full member of the team because of the complex security issues involved. He also asked that the U.N. team limit its mission only to Jenin. Officially, it will remain a three-member team. But Ahtisaari stressed other participants such as advisers and security personnel would bring its size to about 20. Ahtisaari told reporters on Tuesday that all members of the mission would work as a team, and Nash would play a ``crucial'' role, but as the military adviser. Neither Annan nor Ahtisaari ruled out the possibility of going outside Jenin. Nasser Al-Kidwa, the Palestinian U.N. observer, called the Israeli decision ``blatant blackmail which will definitely undermine the integrity of the fact-finding process.'' ``We thought that the Israeli side did not have anything to hide, but obviously they do,'' he said. Al-Kidwa said he initially asked for the council meeting after explosions in the Ramallah compound where Arafat is besieged by Israeli troops and tanks, which he called ``a very dangerous development.'' The Security Council has demanded an immediate withdrawal of Israeli forces from Palestinian cities in the West Bank, including Ramallah, and a cease-fire. The Israeli army said it set off controlled explosions Tuesday to blow up grenades found in Arafat's compound. But Tawfik Tirawi, head of Palestinian intelligence in the West Bank, accused Israel of wanting to destroy a wall between the prison inside the compound and Arafat's office so they could easily enter. Problems with the International Committee of the Red Cross - which Sommaruga headed from 1987 until 1999 - have been continual since Israel was first rejected for membership in the organization in 1949. The ICRC recognizes only the Cross and the Muslim Crescent as official emblems and will not sanction the Jewish Star of David as a symbol for relief workers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 23 Apr 02 - 11:39 PM Why do you seem to feel that there is something wrong with having experts in military operations and counter-terrorism, instead of politicians who may have no knowledge in those fields, on the investigation team, RO1SIN? The Israelis said today that there was not enough Israelis on the investigative committee or some thing like that
The article you quote in the very next post gives the lie to this statement. It also gives the reason that the Israelis object to the former Red Cross man. It would seem to me that the International Red Cross acted in a manner that could well be construed as anti-Semitic in allowing the Cross (Christian) and the Crescent(Muslim) as official emblems but not the Star of David (Jewish). troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:07 AM Oh, please. How is the Red Cross not allowing the star of David as an official emblem anti-Semitic, Troll? Should EVERY minor religion have their own officially recognised "red cross"-style emblem? Shintoists, Baha'is, Wiccans, Zoroastrians, Asatruar? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think that ANY of the world's minor faiths have their own. Xtianity and Islam, in case you hadn't noticed, are the worlds two largest religious groups, by far. Get real, and start whining about Hindus before you get way down to the Jews. :) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:53 AM If you will READ my post instead of allowing your knee-jerk reactions to take over, you will find that I said that I could see how the refusal to allow the Star of David to be an official Red Cross symbol could be construed as anti-Semitic since the reason the Crescent is used by Muslims is that they object, on religious grounds, to wearing a cross. Whats good for one should be good for the other. I am unaware of any symbol that readily identifies the Hindu, the Shinto or the Zoroastrian, but the Mogen David is known the world over as the symbol of Judaism. In conclusion, I don't believe that ANYONE should have to wear a symbol that represents a religious belief that they don't subscribe to. But that is what the Red Cross would require of the Jews and Hindus and any other faith but Christianity and Islam. If this is whining, so be it. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Apr 02 - 01:36 AM I did READ you post the first time, Troll. Just re-READ it. Same response. So, I agree with your last, uh, paragraph-like thing. But I disagree that the IFRC's decision not to allow a "Red Star of David" could even be "construed as anti-Semitic." If they allowed a Hindu "Red Om," or a Buddhist, uh, "Red Wheel," but not a "Red Star of David," fine, anti-Semitism. Anyone who thinks the current system is anti-Semitic is full of shit, and knows it. :) In a perfectly fair world, every 2-person cult would have their own "Red ____." But I think you'd agree, Troll, that might get confusing. "Red Crescent" is already pushing it, for me. Ditch the cross altogether, and unfurl the RED SHATNER! ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Apr 02 - 01:38 AM Oops! Pulled a Troll with the italics there. ;) Nothing after "construed should be italics, heh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Apr 02 - 01:43 AM Man, I'm tired. Forgot to add "Could someone fix that, please?" (Wish:Editable posts) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:02 AM Actually, it's a GREEN crescent, but I wouldn't have expected you to know that. I don't suppose it occurred to you that in denying a "Red Wheel(?)" etc that the IRC could also be anti-Buddhist as well? No, I don't suppose it would. troll BTW< The Hindus don't use Om. It's the Buddhists . It comes from the mantra "Om Mane Padme Hum" which translates "Hail To The Jewel In The Lotus" and refers to Gautama Buddha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:50 AM BTW troll, Om is Sanskrit, and is Hindu and even earlier Vedic, & predates the Buddhist use by quite a bit; and the mantram you quote, incorrectly, is specifically Tibetan Buddhist - 'Om Mani Padme Hum', & which is quite a bit later than the early Buddhist, whose writings were in Pali, and who did not believe in or use mantric practices. Your translation is pretty correct, but it doesn't really translate into English very well. Om does not mean Hail, a better translation might be - Om, The Jewel in the Lotus - the sound of these syllables in Sanskrit are supposed to have a force or power, not the meaning of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 24 Apr 02 - 09:15 AM and one could mention that the Mogen David is in use in Vedic India centuries, if not millennia, before it appears in Judaism. The red star might be confused with being Indian at that. The Red Cross obviously has its roots, though innocently perhaps, in Christian symbolism, and one can understand the Muslim resistance to its use, particularly in relation to the Crusades, which by definition were designed to impose the Cross on subject peoples. There have been Crescentades as well. There have not been forced obedience to the religions of the Hindu or the Buddhist, or the Taoist, though perhaps in some ways to the Confucian. It's mostly 'eople of the Book' who feel compelled to imnpose thier will and thier religion on others, by force if necessary. I'll never understand how anyone with a brain and some free time to think about things can actually believe in the god of the old testament, and by extension, the new either, and by extension any so called prophet of that god. The Jews in ancient times worshipped goddesses, and other gods, came to the one god idea rather late, not ab origine as many would have us believe. An all powerful creator demands obedience from his creatures, and curses them to eternal damnation, but is dissuaded by the blood sacrifice of his son? Yes, there was a tradition of blood sacrifice in many ancient religions, the Greek, the Hindu, etc. It is still accepted in Islam and in some Orthodox Christian rites. Primitive. and not to knock the primitive, I think there is something to sympathetic magic. But belief in this god and a promised afterlife? Pie in the sky when you die. Bon apetit. and how many more innocent people must die horrible deaths in the name of this god? I mean, hundreds, thousands of 'martyrs suffered much more than three hours hanging on a cross. Mere humans even recreate the experience every Easter and are not too much the worse for wear. I don't question anyones RIGHT to believe in Santa Claus or whatever they like, but when it threatens the existence of all life on this planet, and some so called religious people develop very late in thier doctrine ideas of Eschatology, and Armageddon, and the Second Coming, it's time to say that's okay for you, but we won't cooperate with your god's plan. Peace to all, may all beings be enlightened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 09:17 AM Spelling has never been my strong suit. My point was that the Hindus don't use "Om" or at least are not widely recoginsed as using it- especially as a cultural or religious identifier- in the way that the Cross is used. I am aware that its use as a mantra is primarily confined to Lamaistic Buddhism (which is not confined to Tibet). It was not my intent to start a discussion on comparative religion. I try to steer clear of that particular morass. If the Hindus do use "Om" in their religious practices, I was not aware of it. My undergratuate minor focused more on Islam than on the Eastern faiths and that was well over 30 years ago. I appreciate the correction. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Apr 02 - 09:47 AM for closer inspection: But why especially the Arab states opposed to Israel being admitted to the ICRC using the Star of David as an argument when at the same time another state (Iran) was allowed to use the Red Lion and Sun escapes me. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 24 Apr 02 - 10:29 AM Troll, I am not being condescending and hope I am not coming off as a patronizing pedant, but you made your statements pretty emphatically. I hate postings that begin 'did you perhaps mean MANI?' pointing out an obvious typing error and adding nothing to the discussion. In this case since most people are not familiar with Sanskrit, or Tibetan Buddhist Sanskrit it seemed a correction was in order. FYI Om is widely used in Hindu religious practices. It begins every prayer offered to any of the gods in Hinduism. The use of OM in lamaistic buddhism comes directly from Hindu based Yoga practices of Tantra, which include mantra (sound) and yantra (image) where both OM and the six pointed star are in use and have been since about 4000 BC or so, some say longer, some a bit shorter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 02:20 PM Bill, no offense taken. Again, I appreciate both the new information and the correction. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Apr 02 - 02:40 PM Wow, Bill, thanks for all that info. :) Troll: "Actually, it's a GREEN crescent, but I wouldn't have expected you to know that." No, it isn't. It's red, wise ass. :) (See Wolfgang's clicky) And, again, I'd like a non-religious symbol. OK, maybe not a Red Shatner, but maybe those Red Chevrons. (again, in Wolfgang's clicky) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 07:13 PM You're right.ItIS a red crescent. I don't know what I was thinking. Kermit the Frog is green. Medication time. NURSE!!! troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: tremodt Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:05 PM will I be disappointed if the UN does not find that there was war crimes in Jennin? No I wont be disappointed The simple question was and still is Will the Israeli soldiers be tried on war crimes IF it is found that war crimes were committed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: CarolC Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:31 PM I just saw your "Rabbi" thread, RO1SIN. I'd say your behavior in this forum would be considered an embarassment to whatever category of people you belong to. Unless you're just a Troll. In which case, never mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:39 PM NOW I remember where I got "green" from. The Chinese use a green cross to denote medical facilities such as pharmacies. Whew! I guess my mind isn't completely gone yet. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:46 PM RO1SIN, if israeli soldiers are found to have commited war crimes, why would they NOTstand trial? troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: GUEST Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:47 PM CarolC, RO1SIN is proof that some of the worst trolls are Mudcat members. Look at that Rabbi thread, look at RO1SIN's posts here. Look at the "Jewish Question" thread that he started last month. RO1SIN is a real piece of work.
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: DougR Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:54 PM I would like to read RO1SIN's reply to Troll's question. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: robomatic Date: 24 Apr 02 - 09:53 PM Several folk have been very eager to jump on the war crimes issue before ANY FACTs have come out. I don't wonder at the timing of this thread. Unless they find a bunch of bodies in a pit with holes in the back of their skulls, I don't know how you're going to prove war crimes. The Palestinians booby trapped the camp and shot at Israelis who were on foot to attempt to clear areas of noncombatants. No way we're talking Serbia here. I think the timing of the question, the raising of the accusations, and the attempt to flood the media with diatribes with no factual content are themselves indications of a rather large and broad brush smear campaign. The Israelis were there as a warlike response to many acts of war. They weren't there to sell magazines. I understand now that the 'devastation' wrought in Jenin is not as great as represented. But if the Israelis were convinced that the Palestinian Authority infrastructure was part and parcel of the deluge of homicide attacks, then their response was logical and proportionate. The WISDOM of it is another matter. The European responses vary from ludicrous to outright anti-semitism. I don't approve of posting wholesale opinion columns into this venue, but consider Oriana Fallaci's recent opus on what's been getting printed. Where were these people when Israelis were the targets? What was the U.N. proposing to do to safeguard innocent civilians who were being blown up in markets and buses? The Israelis are doing what only they are left to do: Taking care of business. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: CarolC Date: 24 Apr 02 - 10:27 PM Taking care of business |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: DougR Date: 24 Apr 02 - 10:34 PM Carol C: You offer "The Palestine Monitor" as a non-biased source of informatiion in rebuttal to robomatic's post? You must be kidding! You are, aren't you? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: CarolC Date: 24 Apr 02 - 10:42 PM Christopher Hedges' article appeared in Harper's magazine. I wanted to find the original article in Harper's by Mr. Hedges, but my search skills are not that advanced. However, to address your comment, would you automatically accept an article from an Israeli news source as being unbiased? If so, why would you do that but automatically dismiss one from a Palestinian source? No bigotry toward Palestinians, I'm sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Israeli soldiers charged with war crime From: Troll Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:49 AM I read Hedges story. I was surprised that none of the "mainstream" media picked it up. about the only places I saw any mention of it was in passing in other articles in sources like the Islamic Republic Wire and the Electronic Intifada. I would have expected to see the news full of such a sensational piece but I did not so I don't know how much credence to give it. troll |