BS: Can a film be made better after?

Subject: Can a film be made better after?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 28 Apr 02 - 10:50 PM

My honey and I were not all that entranced by the film he used to call "The Phantom Blemish" (a term lifted from "Computer Gaming World", who said the game was somehow *worse* than the film). However, he recently found out that someone with a lot of time, money, and high tech equipment and software has expended a great deal of energy to try and make the film a little more palatable by creatively editing the character of Jar-Jar Binks. Evidentally, they have taken out many scenes with him, and recreated others that they kept in. The ones remaining have Jar-Jar speaking in an alien language with subtitles. The dialogue is supposed to make Jar-Jar more of an intelligent mystic than the bumbling stereo-type that Mr. Lucas foisted upon his audience.

I am not normally for the unauthorized use or alteration of others intellectual property, but I have to admit I am *really* curious here.

Has anyone seen or heard of this???

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Apr 02 - 10:55 PM

Mystery Science Theater makes all sorts of crap palatable.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 28 Apr 02 - 10:57 PM

:::Snort!!:::

You have a point there!

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:16 AM

Well, Steven Spielberg just

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:24 AM

tried to make a film better "after" by re-creating parts of "ET" for the 20th anniversary DVD luxury special enhanced edition (I could go on...) Spielberg chose to take out a scene (among others that were digitally altered) in which Elliot calls his brother "penis breath".

Is the movie better now? Please vote yea or nay.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:35 AM

The removal of the "penis breath" scene sounds like a definite, if small, improvement to me...

They should have done the same with that "suck face" stuff in the movie with Katharyn Hepburn and Whatzisname...

It makes me sick when Hollywood tries to be modern and cool by having kids say stuff like that...it's so gratuitous, phony, manipulative, and unnecessary.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: sophocleese
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 07:54 AM

Actually the 'penis breath' scene is still in the movie. Either that or the Orillia theatre re-ran the 20 year old original. What I find weird is the number of people who can remember what the movie was like 20 years ago and compare it to the edited re-release. I can vaguely remember the plot but all the small details have slipped out of my head after 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 08:01 AM

As far as I can see, the primary reason for trying to make a movie "better" after it's done is to make more money. When they re-issue a movie or do a new DVD, their sales pitch is, "expanded, with NEVER BEFORE SEEN SCENES. They expanded version is usuall two or three minutes longer and a real disaapointment if you even notice the difference. The re-released Close Encounters of the Third Kind with a "never before seen scene" of the INSIDE of the space ship. Big Whoop!, as my sons would say. They re-issued Blade Runner (one of my favorite movies) eliminating the voice over in the opening credits (which supposedly bothered people terribly) and added one scene suggesting that the Harrison Ford character was a replicant. A scene that must have run all of 45 seconds. I have a video of the original version and a DVD of the "Director's Cut" and it's no big deal to me. Eliminating a minute of voice over and adding a cryptic 45 second scene.

The Director's Cut is another marketing ploy to a great extent (I Think.) In most cases, it makes the movie longer... sometimes a LOT longer, and may clarify a point or two. Some movies would be better if the Director went back and re-edited the film, taking out superfluous scenes that were his personal favorites. Very few movies these days are too short.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 08:33 AM

Going to be interesting to see what Spielberg does with the original "Star Wars" once he fills in all the prequels. By that time the special effects and computer generated imagery will make the first one look pretty lame.


Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Grab
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 11:28 AM

Mick, you mean it didn't look lame when it came out? Even the FX were lame, never mind the film itself.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 04:34 PM

The original post above is talking about "The Phantom Edit" that rumour has it, was done by Kevin Smith... Ghost around online, on the geek MBs and such, and I'm sure you'll find someone who'll burn you a DVD or VCD copy of it for a nominal fee...

I find it hard to believe that any amount of editing would improve that P.O.S. movie!!

"what Spielberg does with the original "Star Wars""????

Who???? Lucas did Star Wars...

The directors cut of Bladerunner? Not bad... I like to say it was just as good as the theatrical release, but for different reasons...

I'm glad to hear that "penis breath" is still in the film, not that I have any desire to see that tragically flawed, sappy piece of tripe... Near the beginning of the film, poor little ET is left behind, and you see him standing on the ground watching the ship fly away... skip ahead towards the end of the film, when the kids are doing the runner on the bikes... there we find out that ET CAN FLY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Why didn't the little turd just fly up after his ship at the beginning of that movie and save us all the time and pain of sitting though it...

If Spileburg ever TOUCHES one single frame of Jaws, I'll hunt him down and drown him like a bag of puppies!

A good movie made better by a directors cut? The Abyss, by James Cameron... good film... even better with an ending that made sense! LOL!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 05:47 PM

Yes, Clinton, I am speaking specifically of "The Phantom Edit", and before I go and break my own code of ethics and purchase an unauthorized edit of someone elses intellectual property, I was wondering if anyone had seen the thing. As I say, I *am* curious...just don't know how I would personally feel if the same thing happened to a recorded piece of music of mine. If I hear anything (or if a copy *does* happen to cross my path), I'll let ya know.

I would agree whole heartedly on the "Jaws" sentiments...but, as far as "The Abyss" goes, I got it the first time around, and thought the added footage a little gratuitous (though the tsunami scene was pretty spectacular, visually).

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 05:50 PM

Yes... please do... I'm also a little curious to see The Phantom Edit... I suspect that Kevin Smith would treat it well...

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 05:52 PM

Hawk says: "It makes me sick when Hollywood tries to be modern and cool by having kids say stuff like that...it's so gratuitous, phony, manipulative, and unnecessary"

........You don't have kids do you Hawk?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 06:15 PM

Jerry,

It's good to hear you mention that you've got "Blade Runner". I was planning to send it to you for your birthday. ;-) But now...

For me , though, I like the director's cut better.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 06:36 PM

Are American kids really like the ones in the films? I'd always rather hoped it was just the kids of the people who make films who were like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 06:40 PM

I think the answer is that it depends on the film and the kids, which is a non-answer. Some films portray certain kids at certain time periods in certain situations very well. For example, I knew every character in "American Graffitti" even though my time was a bit later and not in southern California. "Stand By Me" was perfect for late 50's kids....just perfect.

Which ones do you find troublesome or good Kevin?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Burke
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 09:13 PM

I heard about the Phantom Edit on the radio recently. CBC, As it Happens, maybe. All Things Considered did a segment on it last July.

There was an article in Salon as well. It also reviews the cut.

I thought the editor was interviewed in the one I heard, but I may have mis-remembered. According to Salon it was not Kevin Smith. All sources agree that the original edit was done by a fan for fun & not to make money. Distribution has been free, or maybe cost of the disc.

This is what Salon says about the Lucasfilm response: Meanwhile, the responses from Lucasfilm spokespeople began turning from amiable to intimidating. Back in mid-June, Lucas spokeswoman Jeanne Cole told Zap2it.com, "When we first heard about the [reedits], we realized that these were fans having some fun with 'Star Wars,' which we've never had a problem with. But over the last 10 days, this thing has grown and taken on a life of its own -- as things sometimes do when associated with 'Star Wars.'

"And, when we started hearing about massive duplication and distribution, we realized then that we had to be very clear that duplication and distribution of our materials is an infringement. And so we just kind of want to put everybody on notice that that is indeed the case."

The Phantom Editor has supposedly apologized as well.

It doesn't sound like anyone has actually been sued over it, but distribution is technically illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 09:53 PM

McGrath...

The answer is "yes and no". Some American kids are like that, and some are not. Our expectations of behaviour are based on our cultural predispositions, and in this country (as big as it is), there are great huge chasms between one extreme and the other.

I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by quite a few American children...then again, many are shocking even to those of us who live here.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 10:20 PM

Too bad... I had hoped that the rumour that it was done by Kevin Smith was true...

Heh...

As far as what the Lucasfilm response has been goes, well I don't really give a rats ass... If I ever get my hands on a copy of it, I'll copy it for anyone and everyone who wants it...

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 11:45 PM

Clinton, Have you drowned puppies?

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 11:54 PM

Live in fear, Sinsull...

.-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: MAG
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 12:24 AM

I agree with Art about Blade Runner; the later release changed the whole ending for the better.

Has anyone seen the re-creation of Orson Welles' original script for that movie with Charlton Heston as a Mexican marshall? The original was confusing as hell.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:16 AM

No, I wouldn't be pleasantly surprised, Celtic Soul, so much as pleased to be confirmed in my optimistic assumptions.

I tend to see the ones I'm thinking of on TV, spaw, and not too much, so long as I haven't lost the remote control with a hair trigger. I'm probably thinking of the films where they have Macauley Caulkin more than anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Can a film be made better after?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:33 PM

Oh ick...McCauley Culkin. I had forgotten entirely about him.

It's my own bias, I am sure, but I'm very proud of my own little wee one. She has great cousins too.